160 réponses à ce sujet

[BabyPuncher]

ME3 perfected the power fantasy, you feel like a hero yet the story keeps trying to tell you this is a long shot, the galaxy is in mortal peril. Really? Because post ME2 prologue Shepard goes from victory to victory to victory and it is possible to have multiple cost free victories. it is possible for  not a single crew member to die post Lazarus station. Every scripted death is an "ex" member of your crew. The "i win" dialogue option renders all difficult issues trivial and cost free and not once does Shepard feel like the reapers are unbeatable. All this tells the narrative through the games mechanics that the reapers are NOT that big of a threat. For them to be a threat mechanically you have to LOSE against them more than NEVER.

 

If all you do is go from victory to victory your narrative of the reapers being the overwhelming force becomes disconnected with your story narrative. The narrative your game mechanics are telling is that the reapers are NOT a threat to Shepard even when the game's story tries to tell you the repares can't be beaten conventionally. The narrative and mechanics work at cross purposes with each other and creates a disharmony. Priority earth is told like it is a long shot like the last desperate hope for the galaxy yet the game just took you on a ride from victory to victory to victory and you defeated 2 reapers for Christ sake. When you get to priority earth you are not think I hope i can pull this off, you are thinking, "reapers smeapers I got this."  When you get to the choices with the star child you are not thinking "thank god I made it now to make the desperate choice," you are thinking "woot i kicked reaper ass and now its time for the victory dance. Wait who the frak are you, you little sh!t AI?" Yet you are NOT suppose to be feeling that according to the narrative, you are suppose to feel desperate and insignificant against the might of the reapers which is why they never even considered the idea of refusal in the first draft of the ending. Because you are not suppose to think the reapers are push overs even though everything in the game play tells you they are.

 

This is just a complete load of ridiculous nonsense.

 

None of the triumphs of the series equate to the challenge of 'beating' the Reapers. Shepard only 'beats' the two (much smaller) Reapers in ME 3 with tremendous help.

 

If you got the feeling that because Shepard can shoot his way through mooks effectively, he's obviously going to breeze through hundreds or thousands of full-sized Reapers which are invulnerable to anything that doesn't approach the scale of nuclear weapons, that's just completely addled thinking on your part.
 

[xelander]

No, Mass Effect became less real over time. It started as a hard sci-fi, which is one of the main reasons I loved it, but then it decided to throw out plot (Deus ex machina Crucible), characterization (utter fail at deconstructing the Lovecraftian monster aka Reapers) and lore-consistency (I don't even...), as well as destroyed our role-playing capabilities by forcing Shepard into auto-dialogue. Instead, we got cheap thrills based entirely on our emotional connection to the characters built over the previous 2 games.

 

Oh, also, Starbrat. Q.E.D.

[kalikilic]

I actually agree with this. But i can appreciate the purpose of the progression of the ME series and its writing up until they discarded the dark energy ending and plopped in starchild. i'm not here to explain my perspective or convince anyone of it. but people interpret things differently so its only certain that some people will see the game's progression as the OP does, and dislike it while some would appreciate it because they see it differently or understand it differently.

[dreamgazer]

No, Mass Effect became less real over time. It started as a hard sci-fi

[Wulfram]

Priority: Earth felt insufficiently Sci-Fi, too modern military. But I wouldn't say that was generally an issue.

[SlottsMachine]

 

What!!!??? Mass Effect fields and **** isn't hard science fiction. Heresy. I raise you one, Adrian Beltre. 

 

[Lonely Heart Poet]

No. I was actually waiting for it to start. There is many things wrong yeah in Mass Effect 3, but I still love the trilogy as a whole. ME3 was very grown up game to me but it still had it Star Trek sparks. The mission with Legion in the Geth consensus was lovely epicness straight from the 80´s and 90´s kids movies, which I personally loved.

I would argue endlessly about the weaknesses of the story but right now I am listening some sweet tones from the third game and enjoying a glass of wine. I like realism i love fantasy and the third game was most of the time a great mixture of the both. Including THE BAD ENDING.

[SolNebula]

I tend to agree with OP in the sense they became too conservative and used current human military titles and way of speaking. It blocked innovative ideas and a different view on how humanity could have evolved. Also agree that the Alliance felt too Muricans...a more neutral touch is better. Hope the fact we are no military is going to help.

[Xaijin]

Well that's true and it might not fit to Bioware's style of story telling that much. But I'd rather be someone surrounded by friends or gang than military person with supportinaten or part of big organisation I might not like. I guess this is subjective though, some like some organisation their character is in and some hate that organization, but like another organization.

 

But on the OP's topic, I was somewhat bothered by the militaristic feel of ME3 as well. I get it with the circumstances, but it's not my favorite thing in games.

 

There are some anime influences but the ME universe is never going to be a japanese derivative thereof, and expecting it to be some "slice-of-life" group of friends save the universe through the power of the heart heart dance is never going to happen, and you should probably stop expecting it to.

 

Sorry Mario, Space Persona is in another castle.

[Big I]

I assume by "real" the OP means "contemporary" or "military". Those things didn't bother me, I liked that those elements provided a link explaining some of the evolution of present day society into ME society.

[DaemionMoadrin]

No, Mass Effect became less real over time. It started as a hard sci-fi, which is one of the main reasons I loved it, but then it decided to throw out plot (Deus ex machina Crucible), characterization (utter fail at deconstructing the Lovecraftian monster aka Reapers) and lore-consistency (I don't even...), as well as destroyed our role-playing capabilities by forcing Shepard into auto-dialogue. Instead, we got cheap thrills based entirely on our emotional connection to the characters built over the previous 2 games.

 

Oh, also, Starbrat. Q.E.D.

 

Mass Effect was never hard sci-fi. It started out soft and by ME3 it was as hard as jello.

 

I agree with you otherwise.

[dreamgazer]

As for complaints about DEMs, player agency, and lore inconsistency, none of those things started in ME3. You can't even get out of ME1 without running into problem areas there (it has the most direct example of a DEM in the entire series, after all), and ME2 quickly made the second and third points exponentially worse.

Also, don't get me started on the issues with dark energy, which overlap and amplify the perceived problems with the shipped ending.

What!!!??? Mass Effect fields and **** isn't hard science fiction. Heresy. I raise you one, Adrian Beltre. 
 

Bah, that's nothing compared to the sentient, mind-controlling plant who shats out fully-armed asari clones and hands out magic brain filters made of digested Protheans.

[Panda]

There are some anime influences but the ME universe is never going to be a japanese derivative thereof, and expecting it to be some "slice-of-life" group of friends save the universe through the power of the heart heart dance is never going to happen, and you should probably stop expecting it to.

 

Sorry Mario, Space Persona is in another castle.

 

You did pretty far-ledged conclusion there. No, what I don't like how militaristic ME was and how people even want to make it more militaristic: uniforms for everyone and no individuality, no romances with suborninates, everybody having to respect your commands since you are commander.. boring. That's why I'm hoping that ME:A would go more into "treasure-hunter" or "exploder" way than being soldier of Alliance once again.

[xelander]

 

 

Mass Effect was never hard sci-fi. It started out soft and by ME3 it was as hard as jello.

 

I agree with you otherwise.

Comparatively hard Sci-Fi... Happy now? With a few exceptions, it took its world building and lore serious enough.

 

Please tell me other games of that time that are "harder" sci-fi. I'm serious, I'd prabably want to play them.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Comparatively hard Sci-Fi... Happy now? With a few exceptions, it took its world building and lore serious enough.

 

Please tell me other games of that time that are "harder" sci-fi. I'm serious, I'd prabably want to play them.

 

Deus Ex? DE:HR?

[xelander]

...You can't even get out of ME1 without running into problem areas there (it has the most direct example of a DEM in the entire series, after all...

 

Which one do you mean?

[dreamgazer]

Which one do you mean?

Vigil's Citadel-controlling datafile, the entirely unforeshadowed device given to the hero by a "god of the machine" that solves the unsolvable, narrative-ending problem.

[Iakus]

Being "too real" was never a danger for the series.  It was always a comic book game.

 

THe problem was it went from the Justice League to Watchmen with no warning and no reason outside of "Art"

[Panda]

ME is quite hard scifi for me though compared to other scifi stuff I have seen.

[xelander]

Deus Ex? DE:HR?

Point.

 

Sadly, I've finished the one long ago and watched an LP of the other, so my lust for a good sci-fi would have to remain unquenched. Perhaps CDPR's Cyberpunk thingie would be a nice surprise.

 

Vigil's Citadel-controlling datafile, the entirely unforeshadowed device given to the hero by a "god of the machine" that solves an unsolvable, narrative-ending problem.

 

Not every new plot element needs to be foreshadowed in order for it not to be deus ex machina (admittedly, it is good writing to do so for the crucial ones) and Vigil made sense as to where and how it was found and why it was helpful.

 

Compare that to the Crucible - we are gonna build something but we don't know how, but we don't know what it does, but we are gonna place all of our resources in that plan, in the face of a threat that endangers all sentient species... just because.

[Battlebloodmage]

I would prefer more gritty and dark, a lot of the dark stuffs seem to be just implied. I don't find the game to be real. More onscreen drama would be nice. Witcher did a good job in showcasing some of the darker aspects of a war. Dragon Age Inquisition was a big disappointment for me since it feels very clean in comparison to a lot of the games out there. That's just my personal opinion while playing the game. Bioware is like the Simpsons, it was good in its time, but with more stuffs like Family Guy or South Park, it just seems less exciting. People still watch the Simpsons, but there are more options that can be a bit more edgier in term of taste. 

[dreamgazer]

Not every new plot element needs to be foreshadowed in order for it not to be deus ex machina (admittedly, it is good writing to do so for the crucial ones) and Vigil made sense as to where and how it was found and why it was helpful.

That's fine. Vigil's datafile is still a DEM, though, far more than anything else in the trilogy.

Compare that to the Crucible - we are gonna build something but we don't know how, but we don't know what it does, but we are gonna place all of our resources in that plan, in the face of a threat that endangers all sentient species... just because.

Sounds like the plot of Contact, only they know why they're building this device and the trusted source from where the blueprints come from.

[xelander]

That's fine. Vigil's datafile is still a DEM, though, far more than anything else in the trilogy.

We'll have to disagree on that one, then. I'm fine with it while I utterly detest the Crucible and the Starbrat.

 

 

Sounds like the plot of Contact, only they know why they're building this device and the trusted source from where the blueprints come from.

Sounds interesting, I'll check it out. Though, given that most things that survive the extinction cycles are things the Reapers want to survive, I'd be very very suspicious of using it without understanding it.

[wolfhowwl]

"Art"

There he goes again. Look, everyone! He posted it once again!

[dreamgazer]

We'll have to disagree on that one, then. I'm fine with it while I utterly detest the Crucible and the Starbrat.

Being a DEM isn't an inherently ugly thing. By definition, however, Vigil's datafile fits far more than the things you "detest".
 

Sounds interesting, I'll check it out. Though, given that most things that survive the extinction cycles are things the Reapers want to survive, I'd be very very suspicious of using it without understanding it.

Contact's a solid story, both Carl Sagan's book and the film adaptation.

Desperate times call for desperate measures, and it's a solution from a trusted source instead of sinking a lot of resources in conventional or unconventional methods that are just as unlikely to be effective as the Crucible's functionality. At least the vastly more advanced Protheans, who have been responsible for facilitating many of this cycle's triumphs, landed on a workable idea.