230 réponses à ce sujet

[Sunnie]

And the nitpicking continues, because everyone has a different definition and/or expectation of "story content".

[Elhanan]

No, a dungeon crawl is not it's own payoff.  As for your second silly comment, it's a freaking video game.  When I want to use my imagination I will go and read a book, when I want a visual representation of a story, I watch a movie or play a video game.  
 
It's not about telling people what to think, it's about explaining what the heck is going on in their story, which they didn't do.  To throw a bunch of things at us like titans, sha-brytol, scaled ones, and then tell us absolutely nothing about them..that's bad storytelling.  Vagueness has no place in video games, especially when a Thedas shaking event is promised in the trailer. 
 
Though, I suppose...thats literally true, the titan caused the earthquake.  Nice bait and switch there.  
 
Oh, one other thing, when you use childish comments like you did, your already losing the argument.
 
Vagueness like Descent gave us has no place in video games.

Again this line is used. Translation: cRPG's - no imagination required. May wish to re-think that approach.

Personally enjoyed the exploration and combat in Descent, as well as including more lore of the Dwarven culture into the mix of other religions. Both of the NPC's were engaging, as well as including a mechanics to increase gold and boost crafting overall.

Do not mind the open ended questions that remain about something like a Titan; not like a caretaker should have been down there to explain all the details. And if such an hard defined answer had been given in a DLC, would also receive complaints concerning over simplification.

[pdusen]

And the nitpicking continues, because everyone has a different definition and/or expectation of "story content".

 

No, story content has a set meaning. Content with a story. If that isn't what you mean, you shouldn't say that.

[leaguer of one]

No, a dungeon crawl is not it's own payoff.  As for your second silly comment, it's a freaking video game.  When I want to use my imagination I will go and read a book, when I want a visual representation of a story, I watch a movie or play a video game.  

 

It's not about telling people what to think, it's about explaining what the heck is going on in their story, which they didn't do.  To throw a bunch of things at us like titans, sha-brytol, scaled ones, and then tell us absolutely nothing about them..that's bad storytelling.  Vagueness has no place in video games, especially when a Thedas shaking event is promised in the trailer. 

 

Though, I suppose...thats literally true, the titan caused the earthquake.  Nice bait and switch there.  

 

Oh, one other thing, when you use childish comments like you did, your already losing the argument.

 

Vagueness like Descent gave us has no place in video games.

It's a game. It's meant to be played. The enjoyment is playing the game. Games have element in it other then story. And it's not the same as telling vs showing. In a visual medium just putting thing down and going...\

 

Is not going to work. No way is a book going describe the scoop of a Titan. Added, the joys of playing the game is playing the game.

[leaguer of one]

No, story content has a set meaning. Content with a story. If that isn't what you mean, you shouldn't say that.

Story content mean content with story with in it. It does not mean content the continues the main story. That would mean ME1 had no story based dlc. DAO only had 2 story based dlc. DA2 had none. ME2 had only the arrial. And ME3 only had 1, Leviathan.

[pdusen]

Story content mean content with story with in it. It does not mean content the continues the main story. That would mean ME1 had no story based dlc. DAO only had 2 story based dlc. DA2 had none. ME2 had only the arrial. And ME3 only had 1, Leviathan.

 

Um.. thanks for restating what I just said? I guess?

[Sunnie]

No, story content has a set meaning. Content with a story. If that isn't what you mean, you shouldn't say that.

Have you been following this (or the other 6) thread discussing this subject? Not everyone has the same understanding of what "story content" is.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I'm not upset or bothered by this in a significant way, but ME 3 and DA:I both caused me some pretty major story confusion because I hadn't played the DLC for the previous games. If this is another "DA 4 isn't going to make sense without it" DLC, I won't be buying DA 4.

 

Not there was any guarantee that I'd be buying it, regardless, but I've lost interest in paying for games, only to be required to buy DLC in order for the overall story of future games to make sense.

[wolfhowwl]

That's pretty much every ME2 DLC but for LoTSB. In fact, that's pretty much every DAO and DA2 DLC, minus the difficult part. Citadel gets a lot of love, but apart from it and LoTSB were were these phenomenal Bioware DLCs?

 

Mass Effect 3 with Leviathan, Omega, and Citadel.

 

Well maybe not phenomenal but those three seem to meet the "story-based" criteria.

[prosthetic soul]

This **** right here is why the devs don't come by anymore.

 

The reason the devs don't come by anymore is because they threw in the towel on trying to defend their crappy gaming decisions and were tired of being criticized by rightfully pissed off consumers who would wreck them time and time again.  Bioware, at the most basic level doesn't understand the concept of "You reap what you sow."  

 

In the long run, by giving up trying to communicate with the fanbase they've only exacerbated the problem by making it seem like they don't give a rat's ass about any of us.  Bioware couldn't stand the heat so they quite literally hauled ass out of the kitchen.  Don't blame this on the consumers bruh.  

[Sifr]

 

It's not about telling people what to think, it's about explaining what the heck is going on in their story, which they didn't do.  To throw a bunch of things at us like titans, sha-brytol, scaled ones, and then tell us absolutely nothing about them..that's bad storytelling.  Vagueness has no place in video games, especially when a Thedas shaking event is promised in the trailer.

 

And yet, couldn't the same criticisms be thrown at several major plot points from the main game itself?

 

After all, we don't know if the Maker exists, how Corypheus managed to assemble the Venatori in secret, how he allied with Nightmare, what happened in Redcliffe if you sided with the Templars, what the Elven Gods actually were if not "Gods", how Mythal was murdered in antiquity or what betrayal she suffered that she and Flemeth are so eager to avenge, or the true answer of what exactly was the figure masquerading as the Divine in the Fade?

 

There was a lot of vagueness in the main game, some of it I'll grant should have been explained better (Redcliffe, the Venatori's formation and Nightmare), but the others are minor enough that not having an answer doesn't really detract from anything.

 

Dragon Age has never gone for giving us all the answers right away, they've purposefully left certain things a mystery or revealing new information that flips what we thought we knew completely on it's head.

 

We spent three games believing that the Elves were innocent victims in the downfall of Elvhenan and the Dales, rather than having had instigated some of their own misfortune due to their society being just as bad as Tevinter and Orlais. It also took us three games to know just what Flemeth actually was, while the true origins of both the Blight and the origins of the Darkspawn have still yet to be revealed, as the most we've gleaned is that the Golden City was apparently already corrupted when Corypheus' posse entered it.

 

Jaws of Hakkon and the Descent did a good job of giving answers to a lot of the questions it raised, while leaving enough open for us to speculate and for Bioware to build upon in the future.

[leaguer of one]

Mass Effect 3 with Leviathan, Omega, and Citadel.

 

Well maybe not phenomenal but those three seem to meet the "story-based" criteria.

Sorry, based on the op criteria it some how has to be dlc relating to the main story to be story based  dlc.(Only in a place with no logic.)

So that would mean some how (which I don't believe) Leviathan and Javik's would be the only story based dlc for ME#

[prosthetic soul]

And yet, couldn't the same criticisms be thrown at several major plot points from the main game itself?

 

After all, we don't know if the Maker exists, how Corypheus managed to assemble the Venatori in secret, how he allied with Nightmare, what happened in Redcliffe if you sided with the Templars, what the Elven Gods actually were if not "Gods", how Mythal was murdered in antiquity or what betrayal she suffered that she and Flemeth are so eager to avenge, or the true answer of what exactly was the figure masquerading as the Divine in the Fade?

 

Dragon Age has never gone for giving us all the answers right away, they've purposefully left certain things a mystery or revealing new information that flips what we thought we knew completely on it's head.

 

We spent three games believing that the Elves were innocent victims in the downfall of Elvhenan and the Dales, rather than having had instigated some of their own misfortune due to their society being just as bad as Tevinter and Orlais. It also took us three games to know just what Flemeth actually was, while the true origins of both the Blight and the origins of the Darkspawn have still yet to be revealed, as the most we've gleaned is that the Golden City was apparently already corrupted when Corypheus' posse entered it.

 

Jaws of Hakkon and the Descent did a good job of giving answers to a lot of the questions it raised, while leaving enough open for us to speculate and for Bioware to build upon in the future.

Translation: always leave room open for a sequel so Bioware can line their pockets. 

[Iakus]

Did it have any story at all?  Interaction with your companions?  Or was it you and your team grinding through an annoyingly difficult dungeon, fighting a stupidly difficult boss at the end, getting a couple of items at the end and....done? 

IT was a dungeon crawler (with annoyingly grindy enemies and a difficult/unnecessary boss) .  And our companions had minimal involvement.

 

But it did have a story.  It did have characters you interacted with.  There was a mystery.  Though yes it was a rather unsatisfying resolution to it.  It may not be a story you liked, which is fair enough.  But it had a story.

[leaguer of one]

Translation: always leave room open for a sequel so Bioware can line their pockets. 

It's called hinting. All series do it. There is not one series that ever tells us all the story and details all at one. DAO even did this.

[AresKeith]

And yet, couldn't the same criticisms be thrown at several major plot points from the main game itself?

 

After all, we don't know if the Maker exists, how Corypheus managed to assemble the Venatori in secret, how he allied with Nightmare, what happened in Redcliffe if you sided with the Templars, what the Elven Gods actually were if not "Gods", how Mythal was murdered in antiquity or what betrayal she suffered that she and Flemeth are so eager to avenge, or the true answer of what exactly was the figure masquerading as the Divine in the Fade?

 

There was a lot of vagueness in the main game, some of it I'll grant should have been explained better (Redcliffe, the Venatori's formation and Nightmare), but the others are minor enough that not having an answer doesn't really detract from anything.

 

Dragon Age has never gone for giving us all the answers right away, they've purposefully left certain things a mystery or revealing new information that flips what we thought we knew completely on it's head.

 

We spent three games believing that the Elves were innocent victims in the downfall of Elvhenan and the Dales, rather than having had instigated some of their own misfortune due to their society being just as bad as Tevinter and Orlais. It also took us three games to know just what Flemeth actually was, while the true origins of both the Blight and the origins of the Darkspawn have still yet to be revealed, as the most we've gleaned is that the Golden City was apparently already corrupted when Corypheus' posse entered it.

 

Jaws of Hakkon and the Descent did a good job of giving answers to a lot of the questions it raised, while leaving enough open for us to speculate and for Bioware to build upon in the future.

 

Then when everything is revealed 

 

 

[leaguer of one]

IT was a dungeon crawler (with annoyingly grindy enemies and a difficult/unnecessary boss) .  And our companions had minimal involvement.

 

But it did have a story.  It did have characters you interacted with.  There was a mystery.  Though yes it was a rather unsatisfying resolution to it.  It may not be a story you liked, which is fair enough.  But it had a story.

First critic of the  dlc that actually uses logic.

[prosthetic soul]

IT was a dungeon crawler (with annoyingly grindy enemies and a difficult/unnecessary boss) .  And our companions had minimal involvement.

 

But it did have a story.  It did have characters you interacted with.  There was a mystery.  Though yes it was a rather unsatisfying resolution to it.  It may not be a story you liked, which is fair enough.  But it had a story.

NOOOOO, not you too lakus! 

[wtfman99]

I don't even need to read the original post all I know is it's going to be *whine* *whine ******** ********

[Zatche]

IT was a dungeon crawler (with annoyingly grindy enemies and a difficult/unnecessary boss) . And our companions had minimal involvement.

But it did have a story. It did have characters you interacted with. There was a mystery. Though yes it was a rather unsatisfying resolution to it. It may not be a story you liked, which is fair enough. But it had a story.

I agree with this. Except that I enjoyed the combat in the Descent, though not the end boss.

It was a DLC that the writers handed off to another team so they could focus and take their time on Trespasser.

[Iakus]

First critic of the  dlc that actually uses logic.

 

EH, the DLC wasn't bad.  Not my favorite ever, but it was okay.  I just liked Jaws of Hakkon better.

NOOOOO, not you too lakus! 

Hey, Trespasser looks amazing, I won't argue that.

 

But JoH and Descent were story DLC.  Just not tied to the main story.

[pdusen]

Have you been following this (or the other 6) thread discussing this subject? Not everyone has the same understanding of what "story content" is.

 

The term "story content" is self-explanatory. What some people want it to mean in particular is irrelevant.

[prosthetic soul]

No. This entitled claptrap is unreasonable.

 

You cite being beaten up by the 'BioWare defence force' which exists to give you a hard time.

There is of course no such thing, but if you seemingly continue to find every opportunity* to post your miserable dissatisfaction,

I can understand that it might appear that people are ganging up on you.

 

No. There's fair criticism and there's being an ass.

 

*and I was pleased to see your nice post on the jammies thread, I hoped we'd turned a corner (sigh),

hopefully it's not too late.

 

I don't even need to read the original post all I know is it's going to be *whine* *whine ******** ********

You know, I really don't appreciate this.  Not one bit.  Did I make this thread with venomous bile aimed at Bioware?  Did I insult anyone personally?  Have I called anyone names?  Have I resorted to petty flame-flinging?  No. I have not.   The only reason I continue to post my dissatisfaction on this forum is because Bioware is giving me plenty of reason to do so.  Just because there's a lot of criticism on my end doesn't make it any less valid.  You're using some sort of skewed inverse relationship with quantity and validity, which does. not. exist. 

 

I'll cease with the criticism when Bioware cleans up their act.  Plain and simple.  And from the looks of things, there is a lot of housework to be done.

[wtfman99]

You know, I really don't appreciate this.  Not one bit.  Did I make this thread with venomous bile aimed at Bioware?  Did I insult anyone personally?  Have I called anyone names?  Have I resorted to petty flame-flinging?  No. I have not.   The only reason I continue to post my dissatisfaction on this forum is because Bioware is giving me plenty of reason to do so.  Just because there's a lot of criticism on my end doesn't make it any less valid.  You're using some sort of skewed inverse relationship with quantity and validity, which does. not. exist. 

 

I'll cease with the criticism when Bioware cleans up their act.  Plain and simple.  And from the looks of things, there is a lot of housework to be done.

 

JoH was fine, Descent was fine. Just because it didn't satisfy you doesn't diminish how good it was. They can make whatever content they want. If you don't like it, too bad. It's just annoying having to read entitled people saying "oh I didn't like it because this this and this" so therefore the game must suck right? My stance is this, if you didn't like it, don't buy the games or DLC in the future, it'll save a lot of people on the forum from suffering through the whining.

[prosthetic soul]

JoH was fine, Descent was fine. Just because it didn't satisfy you doesn't diminish how good it was. They can make whatever content they want. If you don't like it, too bad. It's just annoying having to read entitled people saying "oh I didn't like it because this this and this" so therefore the game must suck right? My stance is this, if you didn't like it, don't buy the games or DLC in the future, it'll save a lot of people on the forum from suffering through the whining.

Bolded part is typical BDF rubbish that I won't even legitimize by replying to.  But you know, in a way you actually have a point with the rest (despite the obnoxious, arrogant manner in which you said it).  Bioware only understands one thing and that's the bottom line.   So if we really want Bioware to change, we have to stop buying their games and stop supporting their shady DLC practices). 

 

But seeing as how pigs will literally grow wings from their backside and start flying before that happens, I think I'll continue criticizing them on here until they start listening to reason.