16 réponses à ce sujet

[TheInvoker]

2 daggers with 300 DPS (and whatever damage)

 

Ability 300%

is it 300% of the Dagger1+Dagger2?

300% of (Dagger1+Dagger2)/2?

300% of the dagger with more damage? (even if in this case the have the same)

 

DPS

Same as above

300+300?

(300+300)/2?

[Shevy]

I don't exactly know where to start or how you want it to be answered, so some basics:

 

Damage > dps. Damage calculations are only done with the damage number. Dps only displays the damage dealt per time with auto-attack. So, obviously, every dagger uses its own dps and damage for auto-attacks.

 

Most of the dual wield rogue's abilities are only calculated on main hand weapon damage. The only exception I'm aware of is Twin Fangs which uses both weapons. So always put the dagger with the higher damage in your main hand aka first slot.

For exact calculations aka math, there is a thread here somewhere.

 

These observations are from MP, but I think they should work in SP too. So take them as you like.

[capn233]

Twin Fangs uses main hand and off-hand to get to total damage, since you use both.

 

IIRC Flank Attack uses off-hand x2

 

Deathblow apparently uses off-hand for the second hit.

[TheInvoker]

ah ok so main hand and not average between the 2 daggers?

 

But DPS is different...i know the difference between damage and DPS

 

let's say i have Agony (128 damage 329 DPS) and Aurora's Freedom (149/383)

 

This means attack speed is 329/128=2.57 attacks per second

Honestly i don't think a rogue attacks 5 times in 2 seconds with the same hand (making 10 attacks in 2 seconds counting both hands)

I think DPS is the average between the values,but i asked here to be sure about this

[capn233]

For auto attacks, the rogues do alternate between main hand and off hand for each subsequent hit.  Then there is a dual attack.

 

The chain is slightly different depending on if your main hand has a normal dagger or AOE dagger, IIRC.

[TheInvoker]

I know it's alternate but what i want to know is that the DPS of the 2 daggers is not put together

i don't think i can have 600+ DPS

[capn233]

I know it's alternate but what i want to know is that the DPS of the 2 daggers is not put together

i don't think i can have 600+ DPS

 

Each hit uses the base damage of the dagger that hits plus modifiers.  Since it alternates it would be much closer to the average than the sum, but if you continually attack there is a dual dagger move in the chain, so the actual DPS wouldn't exactly be the simple average of the two numbers.

[Bigdawg13]

This may help.

 

DPS (as given by the weapon) is only meaningful for auto-attacks.  So when comparing daggers, or any weapon really, the dps matters most when you auto-attack more than using special abilities.

 

Skills use the base damage of the weapon.  The more time you spend using skills and less on auto-attacking means the base damage means more.

 

Most of the time, you should completely ignore the reported dps of the weapon.  A rune enchant will often make a weapon drop appear better than it really is because it will inflate the dps of the weapon (but does not inflate the base damage).  The only way to inflate the base damage of a weapon is with a Qunari Vitaar (which is why Qunari make great mages and DW rogues).

[PapaCharlie9]

I know it's alternate but what i want to know is that the DPS of the 2 daggers is not put together

i don't think i can have 600+ DPS

 

For the sake of answering your question, they are not "added together". BUT, you could very well have 600+ effective DPS, but not because those values were added together. Also, your question is flawed in the first place, because ...

 

Each hit uses the base damage of the dagger that hits plus modifiers.  Since it alternates it would be much closer to the average than the sum, but if you continually attack there is a dual dagger move in the chain, so the actual DPS wouldn't exactly be the simple average of the two numbers.

 

... and ...

 

This may help.

 

DPS (as given by the weapon) is only meaningful for auto-attacks.  So when comparing daggers, or any weapon really, the dps matters most when you auto-attack more than using special abilities.

 

Skills use the base damage of the weapon.  The more time you spend using skills and less on auto-attacking means the base damage means more.

 

Most of the time, you should completely ignore the reported dps of the weapon.  A rune enchant will often make a weapon drop appear better than it really is because it will inflate the dps of the weapon (but does not inflate the base damage).  The only way to inflate the base damage of a weapon is with a Qunari Vitaar (which is why Qunari make great mages and DW rogues).

 

Think of DPS as a way to rank a weapon's auto-attack damage rate. So a dagger that is 300 DPS has twice as much auto-attack damage rate as 150 DPS. That tells you nothing about effective average damage nor peak damage of a DW rogue equipped with those daggers, but it's a handy one-size-fits-all metric for comparing two weapons in isolation.

 

That said, you are better off comparing base damage and buffs, for the reasons mentioned above.

 

BTW, these comparisons are really only valid between weapons of the same type. If you compare a 300 DPS dagger with a 150 DPS bow, that might say more about how infrequently an archer character is allowed to shoot than it does about the intrinsic value of the weapon, particularly if the base damage values are similar.

[Duelist]

So with all that said, which daggers are best?

Prior to Black Emporium, I would have said Masterwork Dual Curved Blade now I lean toward Coiled Strike.

[PapaCharlie9]

So with all that said, which daggers are best?

Prior to Black Emporium, I would have said Masterwork Dual Curved Blade now I lean toward Coiled Strike.

I need an emoticon that everyone understands to mean, "What do you mean by 'best'?" I'm getting tired of typing the question.
 
Do you mean schematics or unique items? I'll assume schematics. Also, some people prefer direct damage to AoE, not sure why, but I'll assume you'll take either.
 
I agree that the Masterwork Dual Curved Blade schematic was the best base damage + slot types prior to BE. The regular Dual Curved Blade schem is no slouch either and has some Offense slots, whereas all of the Masterwork are Utility (if the wiki can be believed, I'm going by that).
 
With BE legendary schems, I think it's a bit close between the Coiled Strike and Red Birth. Clearly if you are going for Leather Offense slots, Coiled Strike has the edge, but Red Birth has a total of 17 offense slots (not all of them Leather) compare to 10 on the Coiled Strike, which could put Red Birth in the lead for absolute peak damage. Red Birth (presumably) can't be upgraded, though.

[Bigdawg13]

So with all that said, which daggers are best?

Prior to Black Emporium, I would have said Masterwork Dual Curved Blade now I lean toward Coiled Strike.

 

http://dragoninquisi...e-best-weapons/

 

[actionhero112]

I need an emoticon that everyone understands to mean, "What do you mean by 'best'?" I'm getting tired of typing the question.
 
Do you mean schematics or unique items? I'll assume schematics. Also, some people prefer direct damage to AoE, not sure why, but I'll assume you'll take either.
 
I agree that the Masterwork Dual Curved Blade schematic was the best base damage + slot types prior to BE. The regular Dual Curved Blade schem is no slouch either and has some Offense slots, whereas all of the Masterwork are Utility (if the wiki can be believed, I'm going by that).
 
With BE legendary schems, I think it's a bit close between the Coiled Strike and Red Birth. Clearly if you are going for Leather Offense slots, Coiled Strike has the edge, but Red Birth has a total of 17 offense slots (not all of them Leather) compare to 10 on the Coiled Strike, which could put Red Birth in the lead for absolute peak damage. Red Birth (presumably) can't be upgraded, though.

On DW rogues I tend to prefer utility over metal offense for a couple reasons.

 

1. 1 t3 leather skin gives you 1.75 dex which is .875 attack and 1.75 crit damage. That's better than 1.75 attack at crit chances of < 50%

 

Basically if you crit around 100% of the time that will be higher than t3 metal's 1.75 straight attack. Even if you critted like 50% of the time, you would break even. Frankly it's just not worth prioritizing metal offense on dw rogues if you're building crit. Utility is either just as good or more often, even better. 

 

2. DW rogues take much less leather offense to cap out their crit chance thanks to sneak attack. So you don't even sacrifice a whole bunch of attack % to get crit chance, because crit chance on a DW rogue is essentially doubly efficient.

 

 

Essentially the Barbarian Rock Crusher is better than the Red Birth Dagger schematic, though I haven't done the calculations  on the stone stalker blade schematic. 

 

Unfortunately dw daggers don't usually get cloth offense, or I would prioritize that even over leather utility. 

 

This is one of the pitfalls of relying on GhoXen's crafting guide too religiously.

[Duelist]

I need an emoticon that everyone understands to mean, "What do you mean by 'best'?" I'm getting tired of typing the question.

Do you mean schematics or unique items? I'll assume schematics. Also, some people prefer direct damage to AoE, not sure why, but I'll assume you'll take either.

I agree that the Masterwork Dual Curved Blade schematic was the best base damage + slot types prior to BE. The regular Dual Curved Blade schem is no slouch either and has some Offense slots, whereas all of the Masterwork are Utility (if the wiki can be believed, I'm going by that).

With BE legendary schems, I think it's a bit close between the Coiled Strike and Red Birth. Clearly if you are going for Leather Offense slots, Coiled Strike has the edge, but Red Birth has a total of 17 offense slots (not all of them Leather) compare to 10 on the Coiled Strike, which could put Red Birth in the lead for absolute peak damage. Red Birth (presumably) can't be upgraded, though.

I mean schematics in terms of damage.

But last I checked, I couldn't add a grip to the Blade Of Red Birth so I favour Coiled Strike.

And I agree on the regular Dual Curved Blade, I just tend to favour the Masterwork version's Utility slots for Dexterity.

[PapaCharlie9]

http://dragoninquisi...e-best-weapons/

Nice! Fansite FTW! Perpetuates the oversimplified idea of "best", but handy to have nonetheless.

What we need is a weapon with +1 higher mats count for base damage over the current leader (e.g., 15 metal vs. the Stone Stalker Blade's 14) and then add a bunch of debuffs to it that no one should accept unless they were desperate or crazy. Now what's the "best"?

[Bigdawg13]

Nice! Fansite FTW! Perpetuates the oversimplified idea of "best", but handy to have nonetheless.

What we need is a weapon with +1 higher mats count for base damage over the current leader (e.g., 15 metal vs. the Stone Stalker Blade's 14) and then add a bunch of debuffs to it that no one should accept unless they were desperate or crazy. Now what's the "best"?

Considering so much depends on a players skills, passives, enemy stats, party composition to really define optimal damage output, the ONLY meaningful answer is a simplified one.

KISS : keep it simple silly

[Dabrikishaw]

 

On DW rogues I tend to prefer utility over metal offense for a couple reasons.

 

1. 1 t3 leather skin gives you 1.75 dex which is .875 attack and 1.75 crit damage. That's better than 1.75 attack at crit chances of < 50%

 

Basically if you crit around 100% of the time that will be higher than t3 metal's 1.75 straight attack. Even if you critted like 50% of the time, you would break even. Frankly it's just not worth prioritizing metal offense on dw rogues if you're building crit. Utility is either just as good or more often, even better. 

 

2. DW rogues take much less leather offense to cap out their crit chance thanks to sneak attack. So you don't even sacrifice a whole bunch of attack % to get crit chance, because crit chance on a DW rogue is essentially doubly efficient.

 

 

Essentially the Barbarian Rock Crusher is better than the Red Birth Dagger schematic, though I haven't done the calculations  on the stone stalker blade schematic. 

 

Unfortunately dw daggers don't usually get cloth offense, or I would prioritize that even over leather utility. 

 

This is one of the pitfalls of relying on GhoXen's crafting guide too religiously.

 

I agree with this largely because I don't value metal offense slots for rouges as much as I do warriors and mages. for rouges I prefer leather offense and utility slots for more critical chance or more critical damage.