193 réponses à ce sujet

[SardaukarElite]

Sure, I'll pay that.

 

 

That's true. It seems the size comparison made a goof with that. Still, the Collector Cruiser/Black Ark is as large as a Reaper Dreadnought, or at least very close. 

The Normandy SR2 I read is about 220 meters long and the Collector Cruiser is about 8.5 times longer, measuring to 1,875 meters long. For a size comparison from another franchise, it is slightly larger than an Imperial-class Star Destroyer from the Star Wars universe. 

 

 

 

Scale and Mass Effect has always been a bit touch and go. If sizes aren't given in a codex (and even then they might be wrong) then fans have to estimate / measure the in game models, only problem is the models are built to look right in a particular scenes not actually be to scale.

 

As far as this discussion goes though the Collector Cruiser you hit in ME2 was supposed to have had so many colonist digestion chamber things that hitting Earth was a prospect. So they've got plenty of room.

[Sleeper_Tyrant]

i think that would solve all our problem. i'm still pretty pissed off that shepard was not informed on this. the council is a bxtch and would not expect less of them, but the alliance? i mean... unless shepard knows of this (which i doubt) i still think bioware just thought this through and not the otherway around. if this theory is true, then shepard whole crew could survive and maybe lead that vessel to a new galaxy, at least the useful ones, like Liara/Edi :/. while shepard is the one to save the milky way, his trusted crew should have survived this :/ idk, pretty sketchy to me. unless this is not at all the case

Well, the excuse for not letting Shepard in the know is that he's fighting the Reapers, and this plan b could affect his/her morale, jeopardizing their chances of winning the war. And he needs his crew for this war, so... No ark tickets for them. Also, the ark theoretically would be leaving before the endings, and the crew is with the Commander 'til the end.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

i think that would solve all our problem. i'm still pretty pissed off that shepard was not informed on this. the council is a bxtch and would not expect less of them, but the alliance? i mean... unless shepard knows of this (which i doubt) i still think bioware just thought this through and not the otherway around. if this theory is true, then shepard whole crew could survive and maybe lead that vessel to a new galaxy, at least the useful ones, like Liara/Edi :/. while shepard is the one to save the milky way, his trusted crew should have survived this :/ idk, pretty sketchy to me. unless this is not at all the case

Well, meat-wise they didn't mention it because when Mass Effect 3 was being developed it was planned to be the final Mass Effect game. So this ides didn't exist thus nobody ingame could mention it. Plus for all we know it leaves after the Reaper War during the galactic reconstruction. 

[ArabianIGoggles]

Well, meat-wise they didn't mention it because when Mass Effect 3 was being developed it was planned to be the final Mass Effect game. So this ides didn't exist thus nobody ingame could mention it. Plus for all we know it leaves after the Reaper War during the galactic reconstruction. 

I read that they planned to end the series with 3 as well, but why?  They had to know that a successful franchise is something you don't just throw away.

[MrFob]

I wish they hadn't introduced the whole 'drive discharge' thing into the lore.

 

I wish they'd never taken it back out. I thought the way space exploration was set up in ME1 with small clusters of explored space and large unexplored and hardly accessible space in between was a very cool idea and somewhat different from other franchises. Now that the issue is apparently gone, they are complainng that the Milky Way got too small for them.

 

Anyway, on topic: This is definitely one of the better ideas I've seen. It would still be a very long shot send people on a 250 year journey and hope that all the ships systems hold up but I guess it's less improbable than other options.

 

Still, somehow I can't see BioWare going with this. It's too complicated and would confuse the hell out of any newcomers to the series. Everyone knows that "Wormholes can take us to any place in SciFi". But try to explain to a non-fan why we arrived on this weird hybrid organic/synthetic insect hive thing. Unfortunately, I think that this is gonna be the main concern when finding the entry to the new game, not in universe consistency.

[Ahglock]

I wish they'd never taken it back out. I thought the way space exploration was set up in ME1 with small clusters of explored space and large unexplored and hardly accessible space in between was a very cool idea and somewhat different from other franchises. Now that the issue is apparently gone, they are complainng that the Milky Way got too small for them.

Anyway, on topic: This is definitely one of the better ideas I've seen. It would still be a very long shot send people on a 250 year journey and hope that all the ships systems hold up but I guess it's less improbable than other options.

Still, somehow I can't see BioWare going with this. It's too complicated and would confuse the hell out of any newcomers to the series.

For the upkeep while it's still a long shot I'd assume a VI is keeping track of the ship and when it breaks down a engineer core gets woken from stasis to fix it then they go back into stasis.

[Dantriges]

I read that they planned to end the series with 3 as well, but why?  They had to know that a successful franchise is something you don't just throw away.

 

Torch the franchise because you don´t like other writer playing with "your" setting? One possibility, some other writers did that, could be.

[ArabianIGoggles]

Torch the franchise because you don´t like other writer playing with "your" setting? One possibility, some other writers did that, could be.

So Mac Walters was on his period?

[marcelo caldas]

Thanks. When I heard about Ark Theory and was reading how it would work but also the limitations and problems faced with it I thought "What about using a Black Ark?" Since I hadn't seen anyone make a case for Black Arks as being the Ark, I threw this video together.

There is the one that brought the collectors back as a new hord on MP and the colectors reawakened by Leviathan.
Also, there's a new race here I forgot about it, I hope they'll go to Andromeda too. Maybe piloting the black ark.

[Gamedam Meister]

Anyway, on topic: This is definitely one of the better ideas I've seen. It would still be a very long shot send people on a 250 year journey and hope that all the ships systems hold up but I guess it's less improbable than other options.

 

Still, somehow I can't see BioWare going with this. It's too complicated and would confuse the hell out of any newcomers to the series. Everyone knows that "Wormholes can take us to any place in SciFi". But try to explain to a non-fan why we arrived on this weird hybrid organic/synthetic insect hive thing. Unfortunately, I think that this is gonna be the main concern when finding the entry to the new game, not in universe consistency.

Well, the lore has established that there are systems that can last for thousands(Spire on Tuchanka), tens of thousands(Prothean tech), or even millions(Reapers) of years. Plus they'll probably have machines on board that can be activated to fix any issues. 

 

As for the appearance of the Black Ark, maybe they have the group remove that stuff and just use the superstructure, even building around it where the Collector hive stuff used to be. That way they can explain it simply as "an ancient ship they recovered" to new fans while the returning fans know what the ship's origins are. 

 

There is the one that brought the collectors back as a new hord on MP and the colectors reawakened by Leviathan.
Also, there's a new race here I forgot about it, I hope they'll go to Andromeda too. Maybe piloting the black ark.

More than one, since the lore on the Collectors entering into the Reaper War says Black Arks, as in plural. 

Are you referring to the Virtual Aliens, the race of beings who uploaded themselves into a ship since their star was dying and have been venturing for centuries until they came into contact with Council Space? 

[MrFob]

Well, the lore has established that there are systems that can last for thousands(Spire on Tuchanka), tens of thousands(Prothean tech), or even millions(Reapers) of years. Plus they'll probably have machines on board that can be activated to fix any issues. 

 

As for the appearance of the Black Ark, maybe they have the group remove that stuff and just use the superstructure, even building around it where the Collector hive stuff used to be. That way they can explain it simply as "an ancient ship they recovered" to new fans while the returning fans know what the ship's origins are. 

 

Don't get me wrong here, I do think it's a good idea and I'd be happy if we'd get something as elaborate and relatively well routed in the established lore. All I'm saying is that I think BW will want to make this as easy to understand as possible for newcomers and it's way easier to explain common scifi tropes than a relatively complex setup, even if that does fit lore better. It's not a jab against you or the theory and who knows, maybe I am underestimating them and we will something like it.

[Chealec]

Don't get me wrong here, I do think it's a good idea and I'd be happy if we'd get something as elaborate and relatively well routed in the established lore. All I'm saying is that I think BW will want to make this as easy to understand as possible for newcomers and it's way easier to explain common scifi tropes than a relatively complex setup, even if that does fit lore better. It's not a jab against you or the theory and who knows, maybe I am underestimating them and we will something like it.

 

"Previously in Mass Effect" ... problem solved

[Gamedam Meister]

 

I have to admit, while I'm not a fan of Ark Theory this Black Ark Theory sounds very promising. As you pointed out, it is a way to get to Andromeda without going against the established lore or introducing a Deus Ex Machina by solving the issues our cycle has with intergalactic travel. 

 

Since you brought up Mass Effect: Paragon Lost, it should be noted that the first thing involving Mass Effect specifically that Bioware has done since the announcement of Mass Effect: Andromeda was have a screening of Mass Effect: Paradise Lost. It could be a coincidence, or maybe Bioware is trying to show the information given in that movie, particularly the Alliance having full data on the Collectors and their Black Arks. 

 

Overall, very well done OP. 

Hmm, that is interesting. Like you said, it's probably just a coincidence since they have nothing else of Mass Effect to show right now. But then why show anything at all? There have been other conventions Bioware attended where they simply just didn't have any ME stuff. So maybe there is a reason they showed Mass Effect: Paragon Lost.

 

 

Don't get me wrong here, I do think it's a good idea and I'd be happy if we'd get something as elaborate and relatively well routed in the established lore. All I'm saying is that I think BW will want to make this as easy to understand as possible for newcomers and it's way easier to explain common scifi tropes than a relatively complex setup, even if that does fit lore better. It's not a jab against you or the theory and who knows, maybe I am underestimating them and we will something like it.

Oh, I know. And thank you. I was just using your post of them simplifying it for new players as a springboard for ideas on how this would work with that. The galaxy removing the hive so just the superstructure remains being the result. It's possible that in dialogue they'll keep it simple and just refer to it by its new name while the Codex entry about it goes into detail about its origins, similar to what they've done before. Or it will be like Mass Effect 1 where the beginning dumps exposition onto you. Only Bioware knows. 

[SpaceLobster]

It's possible that in dialogue they'll keep it simple and just refer to it by its new name while the Codex entry about it goes into detail about its origins, similar to what they've done before. 

 

They could call it a Prothean ship... 'Cuz, ya know, it is still (if only for a tiny bit) Prothean.

[Sleeper_Tyrant]

It's possible that in dialogue they'll keep it simple and just refer to it by its new name while the Codex entry about it goes into detail about its origins, similar to what they've done before. Or it will be like Mass Effect 1 where the beginning dumps exposition onto you. Only Bioware knows.

Well, now I'm thinking that they could keep it simple in the dialogue unless you have a save file import (or world state like Dragon Age Keep), which eould unlock some additional questions in the investigate wheel.

[Salarian Master Race]

They'll probably start with a prologue screen that you have to read, then in the first area you can walk around the lab and talk to various NPCs who will answer questions a new player would have, but vet players/multiple playthroughs can skip those conversations.

 

That said, this theory makes too much sense, so I doubt it will amount to anything

[marcelo caldas]

Well, the lore has established that there are systems that can last for thousands(Spire on Tuchanka), tens of thousands(Prothean tech), or even millions(Reapers) of years. Plus they'll probably have machines on board that can be activated to fix any issues.

As for the appearance of the Black Ark, maybe they have the group remove that stuff and just use the superstructure, even building around it where the Collector hive stuff used to be. That way they can explain it simply as "an ancient ship they recovered" to new fans while the returning fans know what the ship's origins are.

More than one, since the lore on the Collectors entering into the Reaper War says Black Arks, as in plural.
Are you referring to the Virtual Aliens, the race of beings who uploaded themselves into a ship since their star was dying and have been venturing for centuries until they came into contact with Council Space?

I was referring to a Collector squadie, but a Virtual Alien would be cool to. We definitely need something new to learn from, but at the same time we can recognize. A brand new race doesn't cut IMO. Batarians should work too.

[Dean_the_Young]

Black Ark Theory, huh?

 

I'm not sure how likely it is that a Collector vessel was captured outright, considering the Citadel-aescetic station we've seen an image of already, but conceptually it's not a bad idea. If the way to Andromedea is a long-distance journey rather than a wormhole or something, a repurposed Collector cruiser meets a lot of the conceptual needs. Add some fabricators to turn the rocks into something more elegant, clean up the biomech mess, and it's not impossible.

[Broganisity]

I approve of this far better than I do of 'wormholes' and handwaving, though there are still a few questions that come with it:

 

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- Just how did they capture a Collector Black Ark? That's the type of story that demands a 'little' bit of detail and action! Was there a great battle to secure this ship? Was it already carrying countless passengers at the time? Did the Leviathans, after being recruited by The Shepard, sever the ship's control from the Reapers and thus the Awakened pilots took those inside the ship somewhere safe? That would be something to see, indeed, and could help explain how the ship was captured.

 

Imagine this: A team of soldiers raiding the ship in a desperate effort to plant a Leviathan Artifact aboard. Despite the sacrifice of those brave men and women, they succeed and the Leviathans wrest the ship and its crew from their Reaper overlords. Most of the crew dies but some, the original collectors; Awaken. These Awakened remove the Leviathan Artifact (if it can control them like the Reapers did, it is not to be trusted) and, seeing what has become of the world, use their mutated forms to disguise the ship as 'harvesting' those aboard, but really flees to Andromeda. Aboard the ship are various civilians and fighters from across the galaxy: Krogan, Salarian, Quarian, all of them taken from initially for harvesting and now turned into unknowing pilgrims on a voyage into the unknown.They are awakened by the, well, The Awakened, and after a brief standoff are welcomed to Andromeda. These people bring with them memories of the Milky Way and a unified hatred of the Reapers but hope for a new life . . . and perhaps a way back to retake their homeworlds someday.

 

Why yes, I do think there's a story that can be told about these Awakened, far better than one could tell with Javik. They were twisted into something else but are now free; they are themselves again, but they are also clearly not at the same time. They could be used to explain a much more expedient venture to Andromeda and, I think, would be an interesting case of 'Synthesis' to bring along: Machine and Organic meshed together for deadly efficiency. Collector Companion for Andromeda! *rings the hype train bell!*

 

. . .Hell, the Leviathans could then be a tool for also bringing the Geth along too: 'Aboard the Black Ark were numerous Geth platforms infected with Reaper Code. When the Leviathans made their move, these Geth too were liberated from Reaper Control. Together they worked with The Awakened to pilot the ship and care for the organic crew aboard, ensuring their safety during the voyage to Andromeda. In particular they cared for their Quarian creators, working to boost their Immune systems for the day they were awakened to a new and potentially dangerous world.'

 

However it happens, if this is the route they go with, we as the community need to see it unfold rather than simply 'hear' about it. Hell, imagine if that's The Tutorial! Play as someone taking part in that battle, an anonymous, helmeted hero who gives his/her life to  free a Black Ark. Once the artifact is in place, the Tutorial Protagonist, an N7, dies (assumed). Cut to opening text wall featured at the beginning of every game. Forward to the start of the true game.

 

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- The ship obviously have stasis pods aboard, no need to retrofit (processing only occurs at bases, after all no worries about accidentally pressing the 'turn humans into kool-aid' button)? Its suggested that the Collector ship that harassed The Shepard could have carried a great many more people than it was simply by attacking colonies and that it would strike Earth at some point had The Shepard not intervened. In the year 2185, Earth had a population of roughly 11.6 Billion (including on the stations orbiting the planet). Now, clearly the Black Ark isn't going to waltz up to Earth and rescue everyone there, but the question of 'how much space does this thing have' is one to consider when you are bringing a large amount of races and no doubt a stockpile of supplies. . .then there's the whole dextro-levo thing.

 

--Just how many people are brought total, and how is this divided up? Clearly the Reapers had an interest in humanity because We're Number One, thus we'd have the lion's share of seats, but The races they planned to use for Destroyer ships (Krogan, ETC) are sure to have a sizable portion too.

 

--How is it maintained? Having a Synthetic (Geth) and/or Pseudo-Organic (Awakened) tend to the ship's stasis pod-refugees is a far more cost-effective plan than a generational 'live ship' and who knows just how 'livable' a ship designed for utility and non-standard organic use would be. They'd need less resources to maintain themselves and would have 'some' knowledge on how to keep a ship going for a long period of time. . .not to mention explain how we are using the same general level of tech.

---Sure the Quarians got by on normal ships, but this is a Black Ark! We don't even know what it looks like compared to a standard Collector Cruiser or if they're the same thing! Black Arks are only mentioned in ME3 and seem separate from the Cruiser ships. All this can be handwaved in comparison to 'how' the ship was taken, however, so its a relative non-issue.

[AlanC9]

I wish they hadn't introduced the whole 'drive discharge' thing into the lore.

Or that they had gone all the way and made it something the player would have to manage on the galaxy map.

[AlanC9]

- Just how did they capture a Collector Black Ark? That's the type of story that demands a 'little' bit of detail and action! Was there a great battle to secure this ship? Was it already carrying countless passengers at the time? Did the Leviathans, after being recruited by The Shepard, sever the ship's control from the Reapers and thus the Awakened pilots took those inside the ship somewhere safe? That would be something to see, indeed, and could help explain how the ship was captured.

(snip)

Showing that capture would be an awful lot of intro material. Somewhere between 30 and 50% of ME:A players won't have played the trilogy, unless ME:A really bombs. I don't think showing them all this would be useful.

Now, clearly the Black Ark isn't going to waltz up to Earth and rescue everyone there, but the question of 'how much space does this thing have' is one to consider when you are bringing a large amount of races and no doubt a stockpile of supplies. . .then there's the whole dextro-levo thing.

Power supplies could also be a serious constraint. We're talking about something like the problem that Vigil faced, and we don't want only a dozen colonists to actually make it.

--Just how many people are brought total, and how is this divided up? Clearly the Reapers had an interest in humanity because We're Number One, thus we'd have the lion's share of seats, but The races they planned to use for Destroyer ships (Krogan, ETC) are sure to have a sizable portion too.

Depends on who's running the project.

[Sleeper_Tyrant]

Snip

Why yes, that's a begging that I would like very much to be true. But maybe the council species are more proactive with this plan than simply being abducted by the Collectors. Perhaps the team that storms the Black Ark already have Andromeda in mind.

One thing that could give a little credit to this theory is a image in the E3 2014 "trailer" where we appear to see a Prothean alongside the protagonist.

[Broganisity]

Yes, it would be a lot of intro material and Andromeda allows for the prospect of new people joining.

 

However you cannot alienate the long-term fans and the simple fact is that we need to know how on earth this all happened and its best that we show this in a way that is proper. That is to say: How did Bioware dig themselves out of that particular hole they made at the end of Mass Effect 3, for better or for worse. I want to see how that happened and not just read about it.

 

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I could see it being a 'prequel' game if not the tutorial as well, a short game similar to the Cerberus one on the mobile tablets or whatever it was called; Mass Effect Infiltrator I think.

Also your third comment, the answer is still Reapers (really Bioware, but Reapers). Humanity became their choice for a Capital ship, which requires more resources to make and thus more humans for a larger sample-size.
 

Power supplies could also be a serious constraint. We're talking about something like the problem that Vigil faced, and we don't want only a dozen colonists to actually make it.

The Shelter on Ilos was damaged and kept under wraps for upwards of 50'000 years. I doubt we will have the later issue, the former is always a problem in wartime.

[Broganisity]

One thing that could give a little credit to this theory is a image in the E3 2014 "trailer" where we appear to see a Prothean alongside the protagonist.

I don't take Conceptual Prototypes as anything other than proof of concept meant primarily to show what they could do. Assets are recycled or modified to serve a purpose and might not necessarily reflect the nature of the final product.

[Ahglock]

I think the prologue is great material to handle with a app or Facebook style game or other outside resources. Bam you are in andromeda here is a info dump like me1 intro is good enough. You want more buy and play the app. Heck allow the app to alter the intro in like 3-4 lines.