193 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

However you cannot alienate the long-term fans and the simple fact is that we need to know how on earth this all happened and its best that we show this in a way that is proper. That is to say: How did Bioware dig themselves out of that particular hole they made at the end of Mass Effect 3, for better or for worse. I want to see how that happened and not just read about it.

"We" need? I'm as long-term a fan as you, and I find your proposed start boring. I'm not a big fan of long meaningless preludes in the first place, and this one isn't only long, but requires a whole bunch of info-dumps that will promptly cease to have any relevance. They're going to have to tell 80% or so of the players what the hell a Leviathan is, for instance, and they'll learn that only to never again have the information be of any relevance.

If this plot really needs that much exposition, Bio shouldn't use it at all.

[MrFob]

The Shelter on Ilos was damaged and kept under wraps for upwards of 50'000 years. I doubt we will have the later issue, the former is always a problem in wartime.

Vigil's stasis pods could only be maintained for a fairly short time though (relatively speaking). Vigil shut them down while the reapers were still around and was barely able to revive the few remaining scientists right after they left. Given these apparent constraints, I do wander how Javik's pod survived all the 50.000 years though. He was frozen later, so maybe they did develop long lasting stasis pods 2.0 during the war?

[Chealec]

Vigil's stasis pods could only be maintained for a fairly short time though (relatively speaking). Vigil shut them down while the reapers were still around and was barely able to revive the few remaining scientists right after they left. Given these apparent constraints, I do wander how Javik's pod survived all the 50.000 years though. He was frozen later, so maybe they did develop long lasting stasis pods 2.0 during the war?

 

Wasn't really the pods that failed though but the power supply... maybe Javik's pod just had better batteries?

[Broganisity]

Wasn't really the pods that failed though but the power supply... maybe Javik's pod just had better batteries?

They also took energy from non-important personnel to fuel that of the more important ones, eventually falling down to Javik alone.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Vigil's stasis pods could only be maintained for a fairly short time though (relatively speaking). Vigil shut them down while the reapers were still around and was barely able to revive the few remaining scientists right after they left. Given these apparent constraints, I do wander how Javik's pod survived all the 50.000 years though. He was frozen later, so maybe they did develop long lasting stasis pods 2.0 during the war?

That was with a Prothean power supply though, not a Reaper one. Even then, the power lasted for centuries before Vigil had to start shutting pods down. The trip to Andromeda in a Collector Cruiser would take around 238 years, so within the time frame. 

[Kabooooom]

This idea is pretty clever. It solves the discharge problem, provides an easy means of stasis, and gets the crew there in 230-ish years. Brilliant.

[AlanC9]

That was with a Prothean power supply though, not a Reaper one. Even then, the power lasted for centuries before Vigil had to start shutting pods down. The trip to Andromeda in a Collector Cruiser would take around 238 years, so within the time frame. 

 

 

I agree. And since we don't have any idea of the power available on the ship, the number of stasis pods it can support for 238 years can be whatever the plot requires.

[Mirrman70]

Geth. The solution to maintaining the ship is Geth. Or an army of EDIs

[Ahriman]

Geth. The solution to maintaining the ship is Geth. Or an army of EDIs

I suppose races running away from AI genocide may be a bit reluctant to put their lives in hands of AI. Small crew of asari can watch over ship during the flight and still have few hundreds of years before matriarch stage at the moment of arrival.

[Gamedam Meister]

 

- Just how did they capture a Collector Black Ark? That's the type of story that demands a 'little' bit of detail and action! Was there a great battle to secure this ship? Was it already carrying countless passengers at the time? Did the Leviathans, after being recruited by The Shepard, sever the ship's control from the Reapers and thus the Awakened pilots took those inside the ship somewhere safe? That would be something to see, indeed, and could help explain how the ship was captured.

Well, the forces of the galaxy involved with this project would have boarded and taken control of the vessel. With the information gathered both from James Vega and Commander Shepard our cycle now has immunity to the Seeker Swarms and an extensive enough understanding of their technology. So the only threat that remains is the ship's defenses and the Collectors aboard the vessel. With those surpassed and/or eliminated, the ship is ours. 

 

- The ship obviously have stasis pods aboard, no need to retrofit (processing only occurs at bases, after all no worries about accidentally pressing the 'turn humans into kool-aid' button)? Its suggested that the Collector ship that harassed The Shepard could have carried a great many more people than it was simply by attacking colonies and that it would strike Earth at some point had The Shepard not intervened. In the year 2185, Earth had a population of roughly 11.6 Billion (including on the stations orbiting the planet). Now, clearly the Black Ark isn't going to waltz up to Earth and rescue everyone there, but the question of 'how much space does this thing have' is one to consider when you are bringing a large amount of races and no doubt a stockpile of supplies. . .then there's the whole dextro-levo thing.

The ship itself is hard to tell how much is fully dedicated to storage of stasis pods, but the chamber we enter is a few cubic kilometers and apparently can contain tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or maybe even millions of people since that chamber alone could contain every human colonist and still have room on just the wall, let alone the rest of the space. Plus they also have stasis pods scattered around in places other than the storage chambers. Add to that if we add onto the ship, the number of people it can support grows. 

 

--Just how many people are brought total, and how is this divided up? Clearly the Reapers had an interest in humanity because We're Number One, thus we'd have the lion's share of seats, but The races they planned to use for Destroyer ships (Krogan, ETC) are sure to have a sizable portion too.

I can't really answer that. That's up to Bioware. 

 

--How is it maintained? Having a Synthetic (Geth) and/or Pseudo-Organic (Awakened) tend to the ship's stasis pod-refugees is a far more cost-effective plan than a generational 'live ship' and who knows just how 'livable' a ship designed for utility and non-standard organic use would be. They'd need less resources to maintain themselves and would have 'some' knowledge on how to keep a ship going for a long period of time. . .not to mention explain how we are using the same general level of tech.

Most likely they would have either VIs, AIs, or Geth serve as the caretakers and pilots of the vessel while all organic personnel are in stasis. Plus then power can be diverted solely to the engines, controls, and stasis pods since synthetics don't need food, water, light, gravity, pressure, or air. Then when the ship nears the destination, those utilities are powered up so they are operational when the organic personnel awake. 

 

---Sure the Quarians got by on normal ships, but this is a Black Ark! We don't even know what it looks like compared to a standard Collector Cruiser or if they're the same thing! Black Arks are only mentioned in ME3 and seem separate from the Cruiser ships. All this can be handwaved in comparison to 'how' the ship was taken, however, so its a relative non-issue.

The lore states that the only Collector ship on record is the Collector Cruisers, so the Black Arks are another term for them. We also know this since the Collectors in ME3 arrive in Black Arks and we see that those are Collector Cruisers in the trailer for that DLC. 

[Gamedam Meister]

I'm not sure how likely it is that a Collector vessel was captured outright, considering the Citadel-aescetic station we've seen an image of already, but conceptually it's not a bad idea. If the way to Andromedea is a long-distance journey rather than a wormhole or something, a repurposed Collector cruiser meets a lot of the conceptual needs. Add some fabricators to turn the rocks into something more elegant, clean up the biomech mess, and it's not impossible.

I've been thinking about that. That concept art made me think that our cycle possibly removes the Collector hive parts and just leaves the superstructure. Then they build additions to the ship. In that concept art, maybe it's just lighting but the part of the left side of the image looks to be made of different materials than the rest of the ring. Yet it also looks similar to parts of the Collector ship right above where the rotating parts of the ship are. It's hard to see since most is covered by a hive and an outer plate, but the metal and the lights look similar. 

 

Spoiler

[Mirrman70]

at what point do we see a collector ship in ME3? I don't remember this.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

at what point do we see a collector ship in ME3? I don't remember this.

Here:

 

We don't see one in SP, but Bioware said MP is canon. They also have a lore thing about it. 

 

During the Reaper invasion in 2186, the Collectors returned in force. More Collectors emerged from dark space on relatively low-velocity transport ships called Black Arks, allowing them to maintain a low profile while the galaxy focused its attention on the Reapers. It is believed that their arrival was meant to function as deadly reserves, wiping out pockets of resistance while the galaxy's troops engaged the Reapers.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I've been thinking about that. That concept art made me think that our cycle possibly removes the Collector hive parts and just leaves the superstructure. Then they build additions to the ship. In that concept art, maybe it's just lighting but the part of the left side of the image looks to be made of different materials than the rest of the ring. Yet it also looks similar to parts of the Collector ship right above where the rotating parts of the ship are. It's hard to see since most is covered by a hive and an outer plate, but the metal and the lights look similar. 

 

Spoiler

I can kind of see what you are talking about. The metal and lights do look similar, but it could go either way. Especially since we don't really know how most of the stuff will look like in the new engine. 

[Malanek]

The problem with this idea is that all indications are that the Reapers are not capable of intergalactic travel, let alone the Collectors.

 

If the writers want to keep the two galaxies separate, I think it is absolutely essential to make intergalactic travel virtually impossible. The way they get to Andromeda needs to be unrepeatable or uncontrollable.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The problem with this idea is that all indications are that the Reapers are not capable of intergalactic travel, let alone the Collectors.

 

If the writers want to keep the two galaxies separate, I think it is absolutely essential to make intergalactic travel virtually impossible. The way they get to Andromeda needs to be unrepeatable or uncontrollable.

All indications is that the Reapers have the capacity of intergalactic travel. The issue is whether they actually do make those sojourns or not, where some think they do for a variety of reasons and some think they don't for a variety of reasons. 

[Malanek]

All indications is that the Reapers have the capacity of intergalactic travel. The issue is whether they actually do make those sojourns or not, where some think they do for a variety of reasons and some think they don't for a variety of reasons. 

There are no indications the Reapers had intergalactic travel.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

There are no indications the Reapers had intergalactic travel.

Sure there is. We see them traveling to our galaxy from tens of thousands of light years away at the end of ME2 with their conventional FTL drives.

[Malanek]

Sure there is. We see them traveling to our galaxy from tens of thousands of light years away at the end of ME2 with their conventional FTL drives.

You are making a number up out of the air with no logic or evidence. Looking at a piece of art from a cutscene is a non-reilable way of making assumptions since these are almost always completely inaccurate and made for a dramatic effect rather than realism. The fact that there is no need to go anywhere near that distance away from the milky way, even if they could, tends to discredit your statement quite badly.

 

If we are working on the assumptions that Andromeda

a) takes place after the events in ME

does not involve Reapers

c) their is no canon ending

 

then this very very strongly implies that the Reapers are not capable of intergalactic travel. Because if they were, then the WOULD be in Andromeda in the next game. You can come up with limp arguments like they are not programmed to go beyond the milky way, but as soon as you factor in control and synthesis endings, they WOULD want to go beyond the milky way (because it is human nature to explore) and they don't. This very strongly implies that they cannot.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Sure there is. We see them traveling to our galaxy from tens of thousands of light years away at the end of ME2 with their conventional FTL drives.

Let's assume that's true. We see the Reapers traveling tens of thousands of light years.

Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away.

Even with your generous assumptions, there is no indication that the Reapers are capable of intergalactive travel.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You are making a number up out of the air with no logic or evidence. Looking at a piece of art from a cutscene is a non-reilable way of making assumptions since these are almost always completely inaccurate and made for a dramatic effect rather than realism. The fact that there is no need to go anywhere near that distance away from the milky way, even if they could, tends to discredit your statement quite badly.

 

If we are working on the assumptions that Andromeda

a) takes place after the events in ME

does not involve Reapers

c) their is no canon ending

 

then this very very strongly implies that the Reapers are not capable of intergalactic travel. Because if they were, then the WOULD be in Andromeda in the next game. You can come up with limp arguments like they are not programmed to go beyond the milky way, but as soon as you factor in control and synthesis endings, they WOULD want to go beyond the milky way (because it is human nature to explore) and they don't. This very strongly implies that they cannot.

My question is: Who says there will be no Reapers in the next game if they are still alive? Bioware certainly hasn't. All I'm saying is that there is nothing in the lore that limits how far the Reapers can reach. Until Bioware states the truth of the matter, it can go either way. 

 

Please provide the evidence that they aren't capable of intergalactic travel since you seem certain they can't. 

 

Let's assume that's true. We see the Reapers traveling tens of thousands of light years.

Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away.

Even with your generous assumptions, there is no indication that the Reapers are capable of intergalactive travel.

And likewise there is no indication that they can't.

[Ahglock]

Let's assume that's true. We see the Reapers traveling tens of thousands of light years.

Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away.

Even with your generous assumptions, there is no indication that the Reapers are capable of intergalactive travel.

 

I kind of think 10,000 LY is a solid estimate.  If they were just hanging out a few blocks away outside the galaxy neither ME1's or M2's story about delaying wouldn't make any sense. They make little enough sense as is, but if it was a hop skip and a jump away they wouldn't bother with those shenanigans. It took months of travel, so another galaxy taking 100+years works out fairly well on the 10,000 LY model pr 40,000ish a year or 4,000,000 in 100 years.  Assume collector ships are a bit slower or need some repair 100+years 2,500,000 million LY.

[Sylvius the Mad]

My question is: Who says there will be no Reapers in the next game if they are still alive? Bioware certainly hasn't. All I'm saying is that there is nothing in the lore that limits how far the Reapers can reach. Until Bioware states the truth of the matter, it can go either way.

Please provide the evidence that they aren't capable of intergalactic travel since you seem certain they can't.

And likewise there is no indication that they can't.

That wasn't the claim.

We need only the possibility that they can't for Andromeda to be plausibly safe from them. If there's no evidence that the Reapers can cover that distance, then the possibility that they can't clearly exists.

You're acting as if we have to believe something to be true as long as we don't have evidence that it's false, and that's nonsense. In the absence of evidence, there's no reason to believe either thing.

[Malanek]

There is no evidence to "prove" anything either way. You said...

 

All indications is that the Reapers have the capacity of intergalactic travel. 

 

And I said, no there are no indications they do. The writers could go in either direction they want with it... BUT why bother giving them that capacity when it will ruin future stories? I am working on the assumption that the Reapers will not be in the next game. I think that is a safe assumption because they want to move on and tell different stories and not have to worry about the endings.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Asari also solve the problem with maintenance. They just need a supply of nutrient paste. We don't need Geth or even Collectors.