So, yes, Synthesis was foreshadowed, but only in ME3 by trampling over more interesting established plots and themes.
That is not true. Pay attention to later conversations with Saren in the first game. The Protheans and the creation of Reapers was pretty much a form of Synthesis; i.e. organic life being fused with the mechanical.
I would think so...but then you have sub groups of pretentious idiots who think they are more intelligent than you because they picked the other two...then again, that was mostly the Synthesis crowd.
Which is ironic because the synthesis ending is unbelievably dumb.
That is not true. Pay attention to later conversations with Saren in the first game. The Protheans and the creation of Reapers was pretty much a form of Synthesis; i.e. organic life being fused with the mechanical.
I thought the synthesis ending was the best because I had just brokered peace between the Quarians and Geth and I didn't want all that to be for nothing so I didn't want to destroy option, and the dominate option was not appealing at all but the synthesis ending melded organic and synthetic beings which brought peace and no one had to die for it, plus with the synthesis ending Joker would be able to bang EDI. You're welcome, Joker.
Ugh! This is perhaps the thing I hated the most about the endings. Bioware clearly realized that the other options were fundamentally unappealing. So they put an incredibly unsubtle thumb on the scales to keep the vast majority of people from picking the only sane option that was consistent with the series and Shepherd's experiences. It's one thing to put in bad options. It's another thing entirely to screw up the one "good" option to make the bad ones more appealing.
Pay attention to what Mordin says on the subject. Anyway what happened to the Protheans and Daren was not at all what synthesis was supposed to be.
What was "supposed" to be versus what it turned out to be doesn't make it any less of a foreshadowing. The fact is that the idea of organic and synthetic materials blending into one form was not just introduced in Mass Effect 3. A rose by any other name...
Also, my point wasn't to say "synthesis = indoctrination". I don't subscribe to indoctrination theory, but that's another conversation.
Look at it this way:
The Collectors = Synthesis gone horribly wrong.
That is not true. Pay attention to later conversations with Saren in the first game. The Protheans and the creation of Reapers was pretty much a form of Synthesis; i.e. organic life being fused with the mechanical.
I agree. So given that the only foreshadowing of Synthesis were: the Protheans being turned into Collectors (horrible); and Reapers being created from the blended corpses of trillions of sentient beings (even more horrible), why would anyone in their right mind pick Synthesis (unless of course they were assured it was a developer-approved ending)?
[Edit]
There are more delightful examples of Synthesis:
-Asari being turned into Banshees,
-Krogan being turned into Brutes,
-Batarians being turned into Cannibals etc.
Boy, I sure want the guy who thought up all of the above to be the one to fundamentally alter the DNA of every living thing in the galaxy. What could possibly go wrong.
[/Edit]
Here's what EDI said in ME2 (start at 7:30):
I believe BioWare is fully capable of making you believe your choice matters while it actually doesn't, just like countless times before. The events take place long after ME trilogy and far away. Tell me how the fall of Ottoman Empire affected the current state of the world in details? I am quite sure it was a big deal in it's time, but now it is impossible to see direct consequences of such a major event, now imagine humanity colonized Mars by now, it will be even harder for Martian to relate to Ottoman Empire.
Within sufficient amount of time enough things will happen to erase most differences between endings and most decisions made by Shepard. In every ending you end up with a ton of advanced reaper tech, the only difference is that in destroy it would have taken some time for scientists to study reaper tech, while in control/synthesis reapers can just share their knowledge. Just add some codex entry that explains how reapers were deconstructed, as they were just giant peaces of advanced technology built to harvest intelligent life, not mine/explore/build or do any actually useful things, basically give some reason for reaper ships not to appear in Andromeda even if player did not chose destroy or add them into cutscenes and everything else if you don't want to save up on work. Then it all comes down to slight dialogue changes and maybe a sidemission or two. Origin and your reputation choices made in character creation in ME1 are good examples of that.
P.S. And about the green circuits and glowing eyes, Dragon Age's art style was completely changed in second part, just removing weird green glow is the smallest thing developers can do to Mass Effect, some codex entry like with thermal clips in ME2 can even keep it lore friendly.
People still crying over Synthesis.
Remember Auld Wulf? He was a synthesis poster boy. He called destroyers genocidal monsters and wanted mods to ban them. He's the kind of guy who would throw his whole family in the Reaper blender.
I wonder where he is now? What became of him? Was he happy to leave us as is? With us wondering about his existence - one of the most fabled BSN trolls? One of legend? Or was he genuine? So genuine that he met his demise with a micro USB jammed in his wrist, trying to upload himself to YouTube? We'll never know.
Anyway.
If so, then he lives on in all of us. I think. Give thanks to the Wolf.
Honestly? I think Bioware's grave mistake was trying (and failing, some would argue) to break the Illusion of choice with the branching endings. Deus Ex: Human Revolution had this same issue in my opinion, only it worked just 'slightly' more in the case of DE:HR than it did in ME3 as the endings didn't have as dire consequences and on such a scale as that of ME3's. . .what's more, an ending (the pro-chrome message) is confirmed canon by the developers and is what the upcoming Mankind Divided is based upon. Firaxis, makers of X-COM 2, also took the most seen ending in X-COM Enemy Unknown/Within and made it canon for the next game. . .only that ending was the Game Over screen. That's right, they canonized you failing in the first game! What a twist! 
Both of those games simplified their options by canonizing the least destructive ending for the setting: The other two endings (not counting the 'screw the endings lets just drown everyone option) in DE:HR would have hampered the setting given its heavy augmentation bent. Meanwhile, canonizing defeat in X-COM Enemy Unknown/Within makes for a more interesting narrative than 'Oh we won, but then the aliens came back'.
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I would have preferred Bioware just having gone with a simple 'Boss Fight then Push Button to End Reapers' Ending, and then, just as we did in the now uncanon slideshows of Dragon Age: Origins (A game where, you know, you had two option variants leading to the same ending type. You didn't get the option to become an Archdemon or or turn everyone in Thedas into Darkspawn-Norm hybrids.), the player gets to see the consequences of their actions:
- Do the Krogan move for peace or war? If Peace, are they rewarded for their efforts with planets to colonize and a seat on the Council? If Wreave was Chieftain, are they stopped or brought into a civil war because of Bakara, or do the Krogan have to be fought once again? Was the Genophage sabotaged while either Wrex or Wreave were chieftain? How did that affect things?
-What of the Rachni? If war happens above, do they come to the aid of the council and fight off their old enemies, the Krogan, or do the Rachni, led by the Reaperized Clone, fight the Council as well?
- Does the peace between the Geth and Quarians last? If the Geth were destroyed at Rannoch, do the Quarians earn an embassy on the Citadel, let alone a seat on the Council?
- Does the Council continue to trust the upgraded Geth even after they help fight the Reapers? Based on the Survival of The Shepard's squad and the actions they made, the Geth could withdraw back behind the veil or stand alongside the council as equals.
- What of the surviving Batarians? If the Terminus Fleet came to the aid of the Council, are the Batarians given an embassy and colonization rights to find a new homeworld? Or were they cast out just as before?
- Keeping the readiness and/or EMS score, how long does it take the races to rebuild their lives? Do wars break out after planets are too damaged for re-colonization? Do limited resources and garden planets cause strife between worlds? Or are they able to hold together and rebuild, perhaps not as before, but with Unity and hard work they prevail?
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A singular ending with modular variants would have been far more preferential to three endings that everyone complains about. . .but I still hope Bioware canonize's The Shepard's death in Mass Effect 2. . .you know, before they became 'The Shepard' and thus aren't even worth mentioning in Andromeda.
Honestly? I think Bioware's grave mistake was trying (and failing, some would argue) to break the Illusion of choice with the branching endings. Deus Ex: Human Revolution had this same issue in my opinion, only it worked just 'slightly' more in the case of DE:HR than it did in ME3 as the endings didn't have as dire consequences and on such a scale as that of ME3's. . .what's more, an ending (the pro-chrome message) is confirmed canon by the developers and is what the upcoming Mankind Divided is based upon. Firaxis, makers of X-COM 2, also took the most seen ending in X-COM Enemy Unknown/Within and made it canon for the next game. . .only that ending was the Game Over screen. That's right, they canonized you failing in the first game! What a twist!
Both of those games simplified their options by canonizing the least destructive ending for the setting: The other two endings (not counting the 'screw the endings lets just drown everyone option) in DE:HR would have hampered the setting given its heavy augmentation bent. Meanwhile, canonizing defeat in X-COM Enemy Unknown/Within makes for a more interesting narrative than 'Oh we won, but then the aliens came back'.
I would have preferred Bioware just having gone with a simple 'Boss Fight then Push Button to End Reapers' Ending, and then, just as we did in the now uncanon slideshows of Dragon Age: Origins (A game where, you know, you had two option variants leading to the same ending type. You didn't get the option to become an Archdemon or or turn everyone in Thedas into Darkspawn-Norm hybrids.), the player gets to see the consequences of their actions:
- Do the Krogan move for peace or war? If Peace, are they rewarded for their efforts with planets to colonize and a seat on the Council? If Wreave was Chieftain, are they stopped or brought into a civil war because of Bakara, or do the Krogan have to be fought once again? Was the Genophage sabotaged while either Wrex or Wreave were chieftain? How did that affect things?-What of the Rachni? If war happens above, do they come to the aid of the council and fight off their old enemies, the Krogan, or do the Rachni, led by the Reaperized Clone, fight the Council as well?
- Does the peace between the Geth and Quarians last? If the Geth were destroyed at Rannoch, do the Quarians earn an embassy on the Citadel, let alone a seat on the Council?
- Does the Council continue to trust the upgraded Geth even after they help fight the Reapers? Based on the Survival of The Shepard's squad and the actions they made, the Geth could withdraw back behind the veil or stand alongside the council as equals.
- What of the surviving Batarians? If the Terminus Fleet came to the aid of the Council, are the Batarians given an embassy and colonization rights to find a new homeworld? Or were they cast out just as before?
- Keeping the readiness and/or EMS score, how long does it take the races to rebuild their lives? Do wars break out after planets are too damaged for re-colonization? Do limited resources and garden planets cause strife between worlds? Or are they able to hold together and rebuild, perhaps not as before, but with Unity and hard work they prevail?
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A singular ending with modular variants would have been far more preferential to three endings that everyone complains about. . .but I still hope Bioware canonize's The Shepard's death in Mass Effect 2. . .you know, before they became 'The Shepard' and thus aren't even worth mentioning in Andromeda.
Nice job. Those are all questions I would have liked to explore, the whys and why nots, in a subsequent Milky Way focused game. It could have taken place a generation or two removed from Shepard. Maybe due to the utter destruction of the Reaper War and lack of resources the races start looking for ways to explore Andromeda as the next new frontier and potential salvation for all the "have nots." That could have made a nice segue. Instead we got the "happily-ever-after" slideshow and relocated to a new galaxy more to avoid the thematic mess they created that out of respect for our choices.
Nice job. Those are all questions I would have liked to explore. . .
Thanks, but the main question I want to explore is why you quoted the entirety of that giant-arse post. I've always wondered why people don't 'trim the fat' as it were, and I'm no saint on the topic myself.
Don't worry, when it is all said and done Shepard will have not picked Synthesis. It was just an embellished ending stargazer told to random kid.
Too big to ignore isn't too big to retcon!
''No soul. Replaced by tech.''
No more wars, though...
''No soul. Replaced by tech.''
I really, truly, hate this line now.
It's a beautiful line and its executed well, but I still don't like it: Mordin's a genius, but everything he says isn't the truth and he does make mistakes.
While the concept of the Collectors as a race of their own is indeed an impossibility due to years of indoctrination, cybernetic enhancements, genetic tampering, and cloning, there are still a few original copies that are freed by the Leviathans and still recall their original, Prothean selves. I count the Awakened Collectors as canon as I do the fact that Volus can, in fact, fight in combat if needed (their overall effectiveness is subject to debate, however). Of course this topic's moot given they won't show up due to the issues of the ending.
What was "supposed" to be versus what it turned out to be doesn't make it any less of a foreshadowing. The fact is that the idea of organic and synthetic materials blending into one form was not just introduced in Mass Effect 3. A rose by any other name...
Also, my point wasn't to say "synthesis = indoctrination". I don't subscribe to indoctrination theory, but that's another conversation.
I'm not sure what indoctrination theory has to do with this topic? I never mentioned it.
In any case, Mordin said, on the Prothean/Collectors that major systems in their bodies were replaced by tech. They were reduced to controllable tools, with artificial parts. Same thing with Saren, he had implants that Sovereign used to control him.
Synthesis doesn't involve incorporating implants and chunks of metal or plastic into every living creature, it rewrites their DNA to.. ?? something?? I have no idea. But whatever it is, presumably all their parts are still organic, ie they can bleed, eat, poop, reproduce and whatever. Their babies are born with whatever these features gave them, and these features grow with the individual.
If it was like Saren, they'd either be vat grown and implanted, or born 'normal' and implanted after birth, having to replace small mechanical parts with larger ones as they grew.
To me, Saren/Collectors are very different from synthesis. The collectors are mindless husks, cyborgs. They have no art, culture and such. So if that's what foreshadows synthesis its a pretty good reason to never choose it.
If it was like Saren, they'd either be vat grown and implanted, or born 'normal' and implanted after birth, having to replace small mechanical parts with larger ones as they grew.
To me, Saren/Collectors are very different from synthesis. The collectors are mindless husks, cyborgs. They have no art, culture and such. So if that's what foreshadows synthesis its a pretty good reason to never choose it.
But you also just noted they are different from Synthesis.
That is kind of the point in the end, what Saren and the Collectors are is not Synthesis in the way that works, it is the perversion of it.
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