201 réponses à ce sujet

[KBomb]

This is absolutely hilarious, coming from you, who chose to come into this exchange wielding such charming and graceful adjectives as juvenile. So you expected what, "There, there dear, it's alright, the bad gamer man won't affect your fun in your pet game just because he won't buy it". Ironically, you've been latched onto this aspect of my position, that you claim to not care about or want to understand, see the post by you linked above, that you completely missed the fact that I've already stated that while I own both of the first two, I have yet to complete either one, and so, can't see much point in going for the triple. But you just had to run with "juvenile", eh?

You should really pay attention to what you read before losing your cool. Firstly, my response to the discussion a few people were having was this..

 

Spoiler

KBomb, on 02 Sept 2015 - 02:06 AM, said:

I really don't understand the mentality of allowing people you don't even know to ruin an experience, whether it's gaming, music, movies, etc. Especially when you can completely ignore the avenues that exposes you to such influence.

 

This wasn't specifically to you, but a general comment. It wasn't exclusively about TW3, as you'll notice when I said, "gaming, music, movies, etc." 

 

Secondly, you replied to me. A post in which you said this...

 

"since the fanboys are so rabid here"

 

That is what I feel is juvenile behavior. That is what you seem to be confused about. Notice how I said, "a lot of this behavior is juvenile and not, "a lot of this reasoning is juvenile". I wasn't saying it's juvenile to not purchase media for reasons stated. I kept wondering why you seemed so focused on me trying to "force you into playing TW".  Truly, you don't have to play TW3 and I won't lose one bit of sleep over it. I'm still going to enjoy every second of it. I stand behind my statement that insulting people and sweeping all of them into a generalized group is juvenile. Especially, when once again, you replied to me using yet another insult by saying...

 

"You, and people exactly like you are the reason I won't be playing TW 3".

 

Once again, the usage of the word "juvenile" has nothing to do with the reasoning some give for not playing TW3 and everything to do with statements like the one above.

[Giantdeathrobot]

You should really pay attention to what you read before losing your cool. Firstly, my response to the discussion a few people were having was this..

 

Spoiler

KBomb, on 02 Sept 2015 - 02:06 AM, said:

I really don't understand the mentality of allowing people you don't even know to ruin an experience, whether it's gaming, music, movies, etc. Especially when you can completely ignore the avenues that exposes you to such influence.

 

This wasn't specifically to you, but a general comment. It wasn't exclusively about TW3, as you'll notice when I said, "gaming, music, movies, etc." 

 

Secondly, you replied to me. A post in which you said this...

 

"since the fanboys are so rabid here"

 

That is what I feel is juvenile behavior. That is what you seem to be confused about. Notice how I said, "a lot of this behavior is juvenile and not, "a lot of this reasoning is juvenile". I wasn't saying it's juvenile to not purchase media for reasons stated. I kept wondering why you seemed so focused on me trying to "force you into playing TW".  Truly, you don't have to play TW3 and I won't lose one bit of sleep over it. I'm still going to enjoy every second of it. I stand behind my statement that insulting people and sweeping all of them into a generalized group is juvenile. Especially, when once again, you replied to me using yet another insult by saying...

 

"You, and people exactly like you are the reason I won't be playing TW 3".

 

Once again, the usage of the word "juvenile" has nothing to do with the reasoning some give for not playing TW3 and everything to do with statements like the one above.

 

While I don't endorse what robertthebard says, it's fairly natural to have your perception of a product be soured by the people who present it to you.

 

For instance, I meet 2 groups of people one day; one of them are nice people I had a beer with, joked with, shared interests with, and they recommend me movie X. The other are a collective of obnoxious jerks who say that I am such a loser if I don't go watch movie Y. I am more likely to go see movie X if only because I associate it with something positive.

 

Sorry for forum psychology 101, and I used extreme examples, but associating products with the image you have of their consumers is all too human. If you can ignore that, more power to you, but some people can't, especially when the negativity is almost a year old at this point.

 

See, since before TW3 was released (hell since before DAI was released), we've had groups of people proclaim that The Witcher is superior here. Nothing wrong with that, opinions are like buttholes and all that jazz. With the release of DAI, you had people say Bioware has failed for reasons XYZ and CDPR are obviously superior. Again, that's feedback, fine. But since the release of TW3, it seems to have gone into overdrive into what I'm starting to call Geralt's Law: the longer a thread discussion Inquisition goes, the more likely TW3 is brought up at some point.

 

It seems to have gotten even worse since off-topic was closed, and the resident TW3 thread with it. Could hardly have a thread discussing Trespasser without someone bringing up TW3 for some reason or another or starting a thread about how TW is obviously a better game because it sold 6 millions. At some point, the quaint becomes annoying and the annoying becomes tiresome. 

 

I really like TW3. I don't hold it as an absolute paragon of game design since it has several flaws (so-so pacing, samey combat, lack of meaningful progression, story holes such as Novigrad and Radovid, 2 mediocre endings out of 3) but it also features great writing, fun activities, kick-ass sidequests, great world design, and set-piece cutscenes that easily challenge Bioware at its own game. 

 

But this is the Dragon Age forum. I'd like to be able to discuss Dragon Age without one of the usual suspects inevitably steering the discussion towards TW3, then have the floodgates of fanboyism (on both sides, mind, but still) tear wide open and the thread sinks into pointless bickering and posturing.

[KBomb]

While I don't endorse what robertthebard says, it's fairly natural to have your perception of a product be soured by the people who present it to you.

 

For instance, I meet 2 groups of people one day; one of them are nice people I had a beer with, joked with, shared interests with, and they recommend me movie X. The other are a collective of obnoxious jerks who say that I am such a loser if I don't go watch movie Y. I am more likely to go see movie X if only because I associate it with something positive.

 

Sorry for forum psychology 101, and I used extreme examples, but associating products with the image you have of their consumers is all too human. If you can ignore that, more power to you, but some people can't, especially when the negativity is almost a year old at this point.

 

See, since before TW3 was released (hell since before DAI was released), we've had groups of people proclaim that The Witcher is superior here. Nothing wrong with that, opinions are like buttholes and all that jazz. With the release of DAI, you had people say Bioware has failed for reasons XYZ and CDPR are obviously superior. Again, that's feedback, fine. But since the release of TW3, it seems to have gone into overdrive into what I'm starting to call Geralt's Law: the longer a thread discussion Inquisition goes, the more likely TW3 is brought up at some point.

 

It seems to have gotten even worse since off-topic was closed, and the resident TW3 thread with it. Could hardly have a thread discussing Trespasser without someone bringing up TW3 for some reason or another or starting a thread about how TW is obviously a better game because it sold 6 millions. At some point, the quaint becomes annoying and the annoying becomes tiresome. 

 

I really like TW3. I don't hold it as an absolute paragon of game design since it has several flaws (so-so pacing, samey combat, lack of meaningful progression, story holes such as Novigrad and Radovid, 2 mediocre endings out of 3) but it also features great writing, fun activities, kick-ass sidequests, great world design, and set-piece cutscenes that easily challenge Bioware at its own game. 

 

But this is the Dragon Age forum. I'd like to be able to discuss Dragon Age without one of the usual suspects inevitably steering the discussion towards TW3, then have the floodgates of fanboyism (on both sides, mind, but still) tear wide open and the thread sinks into pointless bickering and posturing.

I can understand that. I can't say that I can empathize with it, but I can understand that some have that view. I can understand being annoyed at someone constantly belittling or becoming obsessed over something--but I cannot fathom allowing that to interfere with my preference for something. The only person to suffer for it is you (you in general, not you personally). The fanboys, for lack of a better term, won't suffer and at the end of the day, they may even feel a bit superior because their actions caused such an effect. 

 

Perhaps it's because society leads us to believe we have to care what others think, I don't know. In my opinion, a person should think for himself and never let strangers have that sort of power over them. You'll miss out on so much. I can see your point and I respect and appreciate the way you presented it, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

One thing we can definitely agree one, however; is that there are some asshats on both side of the fence. If discussing games, I would encourage anyone to try TW3, but I would never insult them for not doing so and anyone who has seen my thoughts in the Feedback thread can attest to that.

[Elhanan]

*coughs* nevermind....

Hope the epilogue does a good job of bookending the actual start of DAI. There were cut-scenes, introductions, etc in that, too.

[correctamundo]

DAI has too many fetch quests ... E.g. Requisitions ... practically unlimited if you keep doing them ...

 

Requisitions are not quests, they are requisitions. They are are a quick and easy way to power. Some, few are also nice for flavour. All entirely optional not quests.

[Elhanan]

Requisitions are not quests, they are requisitions. They are are a quick and easy way to power. Some, few are also nice for flavour. All entirely optional not quests.

Also not a bad way to get some Influence early.

[Andreas Amell]

If this is really just an epilogue then we should still be able to play the other DLCs afterwards. So that's not much different than the Origins and Part 2. It's simply wrapping up our choices with a bigger bang. 

[LilithMB]

Havent read the whole thread, but honestly Witcher fans arent a bad lot. Im active on CDPR forums and Ive got to say most of the posters are incredibly welcoming, warm, inclusive, funny and nice people. They have interesting conversations and even though they are really passionate about the game/lore and critisims they dont really bash people or make it a mission to twist someones thinking if they have another view. The only time they really lose there cool is when waifu wars start up and even then they are rather supportive of one another (also its really amusing... #TeamYen whheeyyy). Lots of BioWare fans over there too. So I wouldnt let a few YouTube comments (I mean come on, its YT) or BioWare forum posts on the Witcher put you off the game or its fans. Thats silly. The majority of witcher fans are an awesome bunch. The REDS themselves are really nice considerate people too. And I must say there is much less trolling over on the CDPROJEKT forums than in here. Its just a few loud people (BioWare has those fans too, and I wont let that stop me from enjoying ME or DA)

 

That being said The Witcher series is at the top of my lists as far as games go. Love the world, love Geralt and most of the characters, side quest are done far better than DA. I found myself much more involved in Geralt and co than Inquisition crew even though you spend less time with them. But DA carries its decisions way better than Witcher. If youve played the game and wanted to ignore Triss's vajayjay or took Iorveths path you would know what Im saying. Things like that can break the game for some. So they are not perfect by any means and CDPROJEKT could learn a thing or two aswell. Also they dropped the ball big time on the Wild Hunt/Eredin. Each game they make should evolve and they will. For both studios. So if they could take some lessons from what the other did well while still sticking to there own vision of games then great, win win. Two great games.

[Nefla]

People asking for DA to be a clone of TW3 is something people keep claiming to see. It seems the exception rather than the rule. It certainly is a very small minority. I have rarely if at all, have seen that.

I think some people are super sensitive about any TW3 mentions and intensify it in their mind. Something like one thread saying "I wish DA:I's side quest design was like that of TW3. I liked how most of them had choices, all had cutscenes and a good amount of dialogue as well as being interesting and fun vs DA:I where it was mostly finding notes on the ground and then collecting what the note told you to" in their mind becomes hundreds of people screaming that DA:I was the worst thing ever made and that the devs should all go die under a rock.   

[D_Schattenjager]

Also not a bad way to get some Influence early.

 

 

Requisitions are not quests, they are requisitions. They are are a quick and easy way to power. Some, few are also nice for flavour. All entirely optional not quests.

 

Completely agree on both points ... I myself always use them to get up to Level 5-6 Influence quickly. My point is they should have been limited ... it was kind of boring to see Geographical Survey 5 times. You do it once, then done ... if you do all once for a map, that's it you are done with Requisitions for that map. Could have shown it as a Shard or Astarium counter. Same thing, handled differently ... better presentation and final result. 

[robertthebard]

Completely agree on both points ... I myself always use them to get up to Level 5-6 Influence quickly. My point is they should have been limited ... it was kind of boring to see Geographical Survey 5 times. You do it once, then done ... if you do all once for a map, that's it you are done with Requisitions for that map. Could have shown it as a Shard or Astarium counter. Same thing, handled differently ... better presentation and final result.

Heh, the only reason I ever pick 'em up is so that I can use the quick travels w/out getting the ! in the way. Well, except for that first one in Haven, but I go out there trying to cheese some fade touched iron, might as well do that one anyway.

[Boobasaurus]

I think some people are super sensitive about any TW3 mentions and intensify it in their mind. Something like one thread saying "I wish DA:I's side quest design was like that of TW3. I liked how most of them had choices, all had cutscenes and a good amount of dialogue as well as being interesting and fun vs DA:I where it was mostly finding notes on the ground and then collecting what the note told you to" in their mind becomes hundreds of people screaming that DA:I was the worst thing ever made and that the devs should all go die under a rock. 

 

Yep. What most people seem to forget is that a lot of fans who mention the Witcher 3 in the first place, also really enjoy/enjoyed playing Dragon Age games. I've seen people offer feedback on what aspects of the Witcher 3 they think can improve Dragon Age games. It's not as if they request an exact clone of the Witcher 3. In this case, the Witcher 3 is just a means to explain what features they'd like to see in future Bioware games, as it can be easier to point towards a certain game, instead of explaining it solely into words. The fact that the Witcher 3 is being treated as a dirty word on the BSN is beyond me. 

[Nefla]

Yep. What most people seem to forget is that a lot of fans who mention the Witcher 3 in the first place, also really enjoy/enjoyed playing Dragon Age games. I've seen people offer feedback on what aspects of the Witcher 3 they think can improve Dragon Age games. It's not as if they request an exact clone of the Witcher 3. In this case, the Witcher 3 is just a means to explain what features they'd like to see in future Bioware games, as it can be easier to point towards a certain game, instead of explaining it solely into words. The fact that the Witcher 3 is being treated as a dirty word on the BSN is beyond me. 

They're so similar in many ways that it's easy to use TW3 as an example. Both are medieval fantasies involving a world-ending cataclysm, both have large open zones, both have choices, a close supporting cast, etc...You know this actually reminds me of when DA2 came out. I was disappointed with it but liked it as well and was giving feedback on what I thought could be improved. One of the things I mentioned was that the passage of time was not shown during timeskips. 3 years later and every NPC was still standing in the same spot, every building looked exactly the same, and so on. I pointed to Fable 2 as an example of a game that visibly showed the passage of time: A choice you make when you're a child in Bowerstone makes the town turn out two different ways as an adult and neither is the same as when you were a child. Also you can make Oakvale prosper and grow. That specific criticism: the passage of time, was the only thing I compared between the two games and yet people jumped down my throat saying that DA should NEVER be ANYTHING like Fable without even considering how that one aspect would have made the game better.

[correctamundo]

Heh, the only reason I ever pick 'em up is so that I can use the quick travels w/out getting the ! in the way. Well, except for that first one in Haven, but I go out there trying to cheese some fade touched iron, might as well do that one anyway.

 

More or less =) Get that exclamtion out of the way and maybe sometime in the future turn in the req if there is a surplus of mats.

[Wahed89]

I think one thing people miss about the characters in TW3 is that, because they aren't stuck to Geralt's decisions/travels, they do feel more real/normal with more natural story progression. For example, we can't play the game with Sera as a companion and full time party member and expect to see her character change much in circumstances. Whereas in TW3, you get to see Dandelion or Yen or Triss move along with their own narratives much more because they are literally living their own lives in the world. 

 

I would much rather keep the companions in Dragon Age rather than not just for the sake of a bit more personal, independent character progression. And the opposite is true for TW, I don't want them to add companions. But what they could do more is try to balance it out a bit more. For example, future DA's could see some companions available only during certain parts of the main story, or you could have permanent companions and then a few that come and go as the story moves along. There's no harm in discussion and people presenting ideas, and then refining an idea or confirming what ideas they definitely don't like.

[robertthebard]

More or less =) Get that exclamtion out of the way and maybe sometime in the future turn in the req if there is a surplus of mats.

I had to hit the table in Skyhold for the tower upgrade last night, and turned in like 5 from areas that I won't be going back to.

[correctamundo]

I think some people are super sensitive about any TW3 mentions and intensify it in their mind. Something like one thread saying "I wish DA:I's side quest design was like that of TW3. I liked how most of them had choices, all had cutscenes and a good amount of dialogue as well as being interesting and fun vs DA:I where it was mostly finding notes on the ground and then collecting what the note told you to" in their mind becomes hundreds of people screaming that DA:I was the worst thing ever made and that the devs should all go die under a rock. 

 

I think the main problem is more related to what recently can be seen in a thread not far from this and concerns in this case fast-food contra haute cuisine and Bieber-Beethoven. All seasoned with usual there are only fetch-quests and find someones ring - when the truth is that there are quite a lot of longer more diverse questlines.

[Nefla]

I think the main problem is more related to what recently can be seen in a thread not far from this and concerns in this case fast-food contra haute cuisine and Bieber-Beethoven. All seasoned with usual there are only fetch-quests and find someones ring - when the truth is that there are quite a lot of longer more diverse questlines.

Sounds like an...interesting(?) conversation. I was upset with the side quests in DA:I long before TW3 came out and said so (many times >.<) but TW3 is a good example of what I like in a side quest. I also used many side quests from DA:O, SWtOR, and a few from Jade Empire as examples of what I like.

[Boobasaurus]

I think the main problem is more related to what recently can be seen in a thread not far from this and concerns in this case fast-food contra haute cuisine and Bieber-Beethoven. All seasoned with usual there are only fetch-quests and find someones ring - when the truth is that there are quite a lot of longer more diverse questlines.

 

The us vs. them mentality is silly, and comes from both 'groups'. However, if Bioware decides to implement sidequests that include more dialogue and choice related outcomes in their future games, instead of fetching a certain item, wouldn't that make for a better (roleplaying) game? I ask this question regardless of your own opinion of the DA:I sidequests.

[correctamundo]

Sounds like an...interesting(?) conversation. I was upset with the side quests in DA:I long before TW3 came out and said so (many times >.<) but TW3 is a good example of what I like in a side quest. I also used many side quests from DA:O, SWtOR, and a few from Jade Empire as examples of what I like.

 

Hmmm...yeah =).

 

I would want them to put in a little more inte some side-quests like possession in skellige ( I think it is called that) but still there the question if there are resources for more of that without scaling down inner circle interaction. All of which I don't want them to do because I believe the cast is absolutely fabulous ;-). And then when it comes to mainstory quests DAI goes into overdrive. Except for the ending, they only need to look to themselves for inspiration. Well of course they should and do look at TW and other games. I just watched Mike Laidlaw play Shadowrun and there were things he pointed out he would like to sort of implement in a speculative future DA title.

 

So I think it is a question of resources and not lazy developers (just for clarity I am not implying that you say or believe that, but it is thrown out there rather often).

[Beren Von Ostwick]

The us vs. them mentality is silly, and comes from both 'groups'. But I do have to wonder though. If Bioware decides to implement sidequests that include more dialogue and choice related outcomes in their future games, instead of fetching a certain item, wouldn't that make for a better (roleplaying) game? I ask this question regardless of your own opinion of the DA:I sidequests.

 

And even if they did that (which me saying that is not to be taken as a criticism of  the current quests model) what makes you think automatically it would be because the By Gawd Almighty Hail Mary Full Of Grace Witcher game did it?    As opposed, to, oh, hell any RPG over the last 40 years?

 

Btw, just a quick search for "witcher" and "tw3" words in titles show over 75 topics in the DA forums.  All but one, including this one, really should be locked down as duplication.

[correctamundo]

The us vs. them mentality is silly, and comes from both 'groups'. But I do have to wonder though. If Bioware decides to implement sidequests that include more dialogue and choice related outcomes in their future games, instead of fetching a certain item, wouldn't that make for a better (roleplaying) game? I ask this question regardless of your own opinion of the DA:I sidequests.

 

That all depends on what they have to ditch to do it. The future game will not have to deal with last-gen consoles. It will be built on an engine they are familiar with. There will be several other limitations to what they can and want to do so. Could a better balance have been reached in DAI? Probably. At what cost? I wouldn't know, I only reprogram persons, not machines.

[Boobasaurus]

And even if they did that (which me saying that is not to be taken as a criticism of  the current quests model) what makes you think automatically it would be because the By Gawd Almighty Hail Mary Full Of Grace Witcher game did it?    As opposed, to, oh, hell any RPG over the last 40 years?

 

Btw, just a quick search for "witcher" and "tw3" words in titles show over 75 topics in the DA forums.  All but one, including this one, really should be locked down as duplication.

 

Hmmm..I never suggested that this would be the case if it did happen? Many people have criticized DA:I's sidequests long before the Witcher 3 came out. These same people continue to give the same feedback, but with the release of the Witcher 3, they have a concrete example that will help them explain what they'd like to see in future Bioware games. Dismissing feedback solely because the Witcher 3 is mentioned is just plain stupid in my opinion. 

[KBomb]

Requisitions are not quests, they are requisitions. They are are a quick and easy way to power. Some, few are also nice for flavour. All entirely optional not quests.

Just out of ccuriosity, besides the facade of the name, what's the difference between the two in your view?

[correctamundo]

Just out of ccuriosity, besides the facade of the name, what's the difference between the two in your view?

 

Are you asking me if there is a difference between weapons for the inquisition and Templars of the west?