83 réponses à ce sujet

[Vertrix]

So, have you provided a count of Darkspawn at the Temple of Sacred Ashes to support your claim that we were fighting the Blight in Inquisition yet? No? Why, because there weren't any, and therefore, no basis in fact for your "fact"? You see, when you're discussing a game with people that have no clue about events, it's hard to deny a "fact" that they post.

First thing first, it is said in DA: Origins that every blight begins with the rise of an Archdemon. Corypheus had an Archdemon, so it was a blight. End of story. Perhaps the blight didn't develop further its early phases, but nonetheless it WAS a blight.

[correctamundo]

Inky: ...Will you please listen? I'm not the Herald! Do you understand? Honestly!

Woman: Only the true Herald denies his divinity!

Inky: What? Well, what sort of chance does that give me? All right, I am the Herald!

Crowd: He is! He is the Herald!

Inky: Now, **** off! [silence]

Varric: How shall we **** off, oh Lord?

Inky: Oh, just go away! Leave me alone!

[Ariella]

Inky: ...Will you please listen? I'm not the Herald! Do you understand? Honestly!

Woman: Only the true Herald denies his divinity!

Inky: What? Well, what sort of chance does that give me? All right, I am the Herald!

Crowd: He is! He is the Herald!

Inky: Now, **** off!

[silence]

Varric: How shall we **** off, oh Lord?

Inky: Oh, just go away! Leave me alone!

Reminds me of The Last Temptation of Christ.

Jesus is rescued by one of the angels, marries has a bunch of kids. About several years later, walking through a market place, he finds Paul preaching about the sacrifice on the Cross. When he confronts Paul, Paul's response is: It doesn't MATTER. It's the message.

Of course the whole thing is the actual last temptation, but that's another discussion.

Belief is hard to kill, especially when the person you believe in is actually performing miracles in front of everyones' eyes.

[robertthebard]

First thing first, it is said in DA: Origins that every blight begins with the rise of an Archdemon. Corypheus had an Archdemon, so it was a blight. End of story. Perhaps the blight didn't develop further its early phases, but nonetheless it WAS a blight.

It's so sad that you chose to ignore the one real problem with your premise: What Warden killed Cory's dragon? That's the topmost flaw, but let's run with some more problems with your claim:

How many darkspawn were at Haven during Cory's attack?

How many darkspawn were at Adamant?

Which Old God was it?

We've already concluded that you can't answer how many were at the Temple of Sacred Ashes.

You see, despite your fixation on "It's an archdemon", there was no horde, in fact, the dragon wasn't in command of anything, it was every bit the puppet that the mage Wardens were at the tower in the Approach and at Adamant. W/out a darkspawn horde, there is no Blight.

So, let's run with facts:

Blight
Archdemon

So, of the two provided facts, how many of them apply to Cory's dragon?

[Vertrix]

It is said more and more times during the game that it WAS aan archdemon, that was binded in some way by corypheus (it doesn't explain how why or when, though. PLOT HOLE). And it is also explained that killing corypheus would have killed the archdemon, too.
The lack of dark spawn is completely IRRELEVANT. Darkspawns are there even without a blight.


So, my friend, what you said is nonsense.....I suggest you read the codex entries more carefully.

[robertthebard]

It is said more and more times during the game that it WAS aan archdemon, that was binded in some way by corypheus (it doesn't explain how why or when, though. PLOT HOLE). And it is also explained that killing corypheus would have killed the archdemon, too.
The lack of dark spawn is completely IRRELEVANT. Darkspawns are there even without a blight.


So, my friend, what you said is nonsense.....I suggest you read the codex entries more carefully.

The only hole here is the gap in your knowledge. An Archdemon can only be killed by a Warden. If they're not killed by a Warden, then they respawn in another blighted creature. This is a fact. This fact can be found in either of the links I provided, and from playing Origins. Morrigan, I believe, tells us that his dragon isn't an archdemon, but a corrupted dragon. Regardless of the who, however, we are told. So before you start spouting off about how people deny facts, how about you quit denying this fact: The dragon was not an archdemon. In fact, it even states it's a Corrupted Dragon when you target it at the Temple. The corruption, however, is red lyrium, not the blight, although arguably, based on the facts, there may be little difference between the two. However, in order to support your claim: Which Old God was it? While all Old Gods are dragons, not all dragons are Old Gods.

[Ariella]

It's so sad that you chose to ignore the one real problem with your premise: What Warden killed Cory's dragon? That's the topmost flaw, but let's run with some more problems with your claim:How many darkspawn were at Haven during Cory's attack?How many darkspawn were at Adamant?Which Old God was it?We've already concluded that you can't answer how many were at the Temple of Sacred Ashes.You see, despite your fixation on "It's an archdemon", there was no horde, in fact, the dragon wasn't in command of anything, it was every bit the puppet that the mage Wardens were at the tower in the Approach and at Adamant. W/out a darkspawn horde, there is no Blight.So, let's run with facts:BlightArchdemonSo, of the two provided facts, how many of them apply to Cory's dragon?

Seems our friend Vetrix completely ignores the fact that Erimond, a pissant mage, was able to summon the damn thing. And of course, I don't remember the archdemon spitting red lyrium either.

And that it's pointed out, by Solas I believe, that the dragon was most likely corrupted and reshaped by Corypheus as a mockery of the Old Gods.

These are points made multiple times in the game.

Oh and I've got one you missed, Robert. If it was an archdemon why didn't the Wardens hear it? And why didn't they go after it first when the whole point of their plan was to kill the Old Gods before they were tainted. If an archdemon actually rose, the Wardens would know it.

[robertthebard]

Seems our friend Vetrix completely ignores the fact that Erimond, a pissant mage, was able to summon the damn thing. And of course, I don't remember the archdemon spitting red lyrium either.

And that it's pointed out, by Solas I believe, that the dragon was most likely corrupted and reshaped by Corypheus as a mockery of the Old Gods.

These are points made multiple times in the game.

Oh and I've got one you missed, Robert. If it was an archdemon why didn't the Wardens hear it? And why didn't they go after it first when the whole point of their plan was to kill the Old Gods before they were tainted. If an archdemon actually rose, the Wardens would know it.

Shh, don't muddy the tirade with details.

What really aggravates me to no end is that they probably have a metacritic account, or 20...

[correctamundo]

It is said more and more times during the game that it WAS aan archdemon, that was binded in some way by corypheus (it doesn't explain how why or when, though. PLOT HOLE). And it is also explained that killing corypheus would have killed the archdemon, too.
The lack of dark spawn is completely IRRELEVANT. Darkspawns are there even without a blight.


So, my friend, what you said is nonsense.....I suggest you read the codex entries more carefully.

 

It is a red lyrium dragon. A dragon corrupted by red lyrium like the templars. Initially guessed to be an archdemon by the characters because lack of knowledge.

[Elhanan]

Be seated.... *salutes to the BDF*

Everyone get their checks?

What flaws?



Seriously, I hope that we eventually gain more Quickslots, more detailed Tactics, Player choice on Attributes, lesser weapon restrictions, weapon switching during combat, and a language toggle among other things. That said, I am pleased with many of the changes made in the series, and continue to enjoy the game.

[Ariella]

Robert, I've got him on mute, but did he really call Cory's dragon an anomoly?

He can't name the Old God the dragon supposedly was, can't acknowledge it still took a warden to kill the thing, even if the dr is done, and it took a warden to father the child.

Urgh...

[Mykel54]

I liked DAI just fine, if we are talking about the storyline and characters - sure it could use improvements, but overall it didn´t annoy me too much. Past DA games also had main stories with flaws, boring sidequests and forgettable npcs. But nearly always the companion npcs make up for all the issues.

 

My main issue with DAI is how the controls were created for consoles and then just ported for PC - going through the inventory and the menus is a chore. The combat was created with multiplayer in mind, then ported to singleplayer - bioware wanted to emulate the success that ME3 multiplayer had, not sure if they succeeded, but they sure messed up the singleplayer combat for good.

 

I am heavily invested in the DA series, but as it is currently, i can only bother to play DAI when playing in the most casual way possible: easiest difficulty, no side-quests, no crafting - just going on to enjoy the story and the npc interactions. I don´t enjoy the actual gameplay of the game, mostly seeing the story bits and interactions. In contrasts i spend hundreds of hours in DAO just replaying encounters on nightmare, and in DA2 went through some of the interesting combats again (most were in dlcs) just for the fun of playing it.

 

So i can´t say to be very pleased with DAI as a whole, even if i manage to still enjoy part of it - by avoiding the rest.

[robertthebard]

Robert, I've got him on mute, but did he really call Cory's dragon an anomoly?

He can't name the Old God the dragon supposedly was, can't acknowledge it still took a warden to kill the thing, even if the dr is done, and it took a warden to father the child.

Urgh...

It's hilarious. Especially all the flaming and baiting now that maybe they read some of what was presented as facts, and found out that I haven't been denying anything...

[Lady Ishtar]

...that we fans/'Bioware Defense Force' etc people are dull witted dupes who can't see how crappy Dragon Age Inquisition is, and how anything happens to be superior. That we blind ourselves to the game's horrendous flaws because we're drones without any true taste in video games or true understanding of what a cRPG is.

 

This is the point where I start laughing in your face. DAI isn't perfect. I enjoyed it a lot but it isn't perfect, and I decided to share with all and sundry what I would have done differently.

 

First, I think one of the major problems with DAI is critical information came to the PC too easily. I would have been a lot more vague about how things happened. In IHW this would come in the form of the PC being told that the Venatori, backed by the southern mages were the army that the Elder One used to march through Orlais. In CotJ, Envy gloats about the Red Templars and the Inquisition, under the command of the Herald doing the same. It'd make sense to hint that it was an Empire weakened by civil war which allowed the Elder One to win.

 

Second, I would have taken a slightly more linear path, with Hawke's arrival and the strangeness of the Grey Warden disappearance coming first, setting up the fact that Corypheus has taken control of the Wardens, but not why. Then Adamant playing out as it did in the game.

 

Third, I think raising Emprise du Lion to a man story beat would have been wise, given cutting off the red lyrium feels like another direct step in thwarting Corypheus. This would lead to an invitation from the Grand Duchess to the Inquisitor to the Masquerade.  It would be at this point, with some side missions from Emprise and a war table mission or two, that the Inquisition finds out that Something Is Up. At the Winter Palace both Morrigan and the Grand Duchess sing the same song about a potential assassination, and that's why the IQ was invited by Florianne. The Grand Duchess felt that the IQ, being neutral and all the effort in Empire would be the one person she could trust to stop everything. Of course, it's a trap.

 

At this point, the game would flow much the same. Though, I think it would have been more interesting to have a couple more individuals from Corypheus' "inner circle" to thwart to make it seem like you really are whittling down his options.

 

I'd also would have liked if there was less disconnect between war table missions and game. For example War Table says Sebastian is prince, but if Hawke romanced him she says he's the Chantry Advisor. It's little stuff though.

 

So no, I'm not blind to the games faults. I doubt anyone honest would be, but anyone who's honest will accept the fact that more than a few things were done right in the game, and it's a pretty interesting premise. I look forward to Trespasser, and what comes after. 

I never criticized fangirls before but your post made me do so...
You completely miss the point, the problem with DAI is gameplay, character development, mechanics and other stuff that made Bioware RPGs great. Story is just an irrelevant bunch of words that I ignore while waiting to improve my character sheet (which became an incresingly frustrating process in DA2 and DAI since these games miss the most basic RPG mechanics).
Give me "out of combat" skills, zero action combat, stat based conversation and you can make me a dressup barbie game that I will be the happiest person ever. In fact the only reason I don't forget DAI and play The Sims 4 instead (like as in substitution for RPG) is because The Sims 4 do not have a proper character sheet with number and levels for me to distribute points or craft equipment.The Sims 4 is a way better RPG experience than DAI, I have great customization (including easy and proper modding), I can actually make choices about EVERYTHING, I have better romance, I have a better simmulation on developping my character skills and more "living world".
No poor story can spoil a great character sheet with proper character development just like no amazing story can save a game that does not have it. Story is a good excuse to not get into the game, enter debug mode and type "givexp 800000" or "runscript addxp 800000", but by no means it helps when character development is inexistent as in DAI.
"great story etc etc etc" I can read a book or watch a movie and avoid 120 hours of pure sh*t, aka Inquisition combat and mario jumping. There is no point in playing sh*t "for the story", specially when there is youtube videos. If they are making a gameplay dependant story, as in I play a game and progress with the story AT LEAST they should provide a barely interesting game, otherwise it is just sadomasochism, which perfectly describes my experience with Inquisition, 1 hours of interesting interaction followed by something between 10~12 hours of painfully disgusting gameplay with no relevant character development.
Looking at my DAO/A character sheet gives me more pleasure than a whole Inquisition playthrough (and yes I do that a lot, since the franchise went such a downhill each levelup in Origins is an orgasm where I can spend 3 stat points)

[Ariella]

It's hilarious. Especially all the flaming and baiting now that maybe they read some of what was presented as facts, and found out that I haven't been denying anything...

I just don't get it... If someone doesn't give enough of a damn to keep basic lore straight, why are they even bothering?

I guess it could be that whatever they've built up in their minds as DA isn't actually DA at all. That's only a guess of course, but it's the only thing I can think of to explain why they'd waste time otherwise.

[OdanUrr]

Third, I think raising Emprise du Lion to a man story beat would have been wise, given cutting off the red lyrium feels like another direct step in thwarting Corypheus. This would lead to an invitation from the Grand Duchess to the Inquisitor to the Masquerade.  It would be at this point, with some side missions from Emprise and a war table mission or two, that the Inquisition finds out that Something Is Up. At the Winter Palace both Morrigan and the Grand Duchess sing the same song about a potential assassination, and that's why the IQ was invited by Florianne. The Grand Duchess felt that the IQ, being neutral and all the effort in Empire would be the one person she could trust to stop everything. Of course, it's a trap.

 

This idea isn't half bad. I agree, the hubs and war table missions should've been better integrated into the main story.

[Vertrix]

No, that was not harassment. And as always, you sorry troll, you try to make things what they are not, just to be able to troll.
Again, you are pathetic, and totally uncapable of handling a conversation that doesn't end in your interlocutor agreeing with you.
You impose your opinion to others, and when they try to explain their own, you call it harassment.

I almost feel sorry for you, sir

[robertthebard]

No, that was not harassment. And as always, you sorry troll, you try to make things what they are not, just to be able to troll.
Again, you are pathetic, and totally uncapable of handling a conversation that doesn't end in your interlocutor agreeing with you.

I almost feel sorry for you, sir

Let's read this post, and see if I'm making something up? So I'm a "sorry troll"? I quote you directly, and reply to what you wrote, but I'm making stuff up? I'm pathetic, and (in)capable of handling a conversation? So, that's the short list, should we go back through all my posts and see how many times I've used these descriptors to describe how you approach a dialog? Let me save you some time, it's 0. Why? Because I don't need to. You do a good enough job of demonstrating what's wrong in this exchange, all by yourself.

[BioWareMod02]

Hi everyone. Let's keep it on topic and civil in here. Thank you.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Well, i said that last on would have been my last reply to you, but hell, i hate to leave things hanging, so i will make a last one. And i don't even care about your explanation of the lore (which can all be refuted, by the way), since that was not the point at all.

It is funny how your supreme arrogance and ignorance makes you think you know better than me what I meant.
So, know what?  Go talk to yourself. Start an argument, debate it, and have fun! I bet you'd manage to lose that conversation, too.

And post scriptum: putting people on ignore list is childish, and it is typical of those ''tolerant'' people who don't tolerate other opinions than their own. I am done feeding you trolls.


To summarize: you disagree with me? this is what i actually care:
I have my opinions, and i don't give a crap if you disagree. Have a nice life.
 

 

Except it's not just a question of disagreement. You are wrong.

 

The dragon is not an Archdemon. Morrigan says it upfront, and she has more experience and knowledge in that domain than the entire Inquisition combined. The advisors initially guess that it's an Archdemon since it looks like a blighted dragon, but it's not. An Archdemon would control a horde of Darkspawn, which never manifests. An Archdemon would respawn in a blighted creature unless killed by a Warden, which didn't happen. An Archdemon would have been heard by the Wardens, it's how they know a Blight begins, and they don't. An Archdemon would be identified as such by the game, but its name is explicitely ''Red Lyrium Dragon''.

 

An Archdemon is also highly unlikely to obey any mortal, even one as powerful as Corypheus (who, as far as we have seen, has no control over Darkspawn), and certainly wouldn't obey some random Tevinter smug snake like Erimond.

 

There isn't room for debate on this point. You just have your facts mixed up. There is not a plot hole, Corypheus's dragon is not in fact an Archdemon. 

[robertthebard]

Except it's not just a question of disagreement. You are wrong.
 
The dragon is not an Archdemon. Morrigan says it upfront, and she has more experience and knowledge in that domain than the entire Inquisition combined. The advisors initially guess that it's an Archdemon since it looks like a blighted dragon, but it's not. An Archdemon would control a horde of Darkspawn, which never manifests. An Archdemon would respawn in a blighted creature unless killed by a Warden, which didn't happen. An Archdemon would have been heard by the Wardens, it's how they know a Blight begins, and they don't. An Archdemon would be identified as such by the game, but its name is explicitely ''Red Lyrium Dragon''.
 
An Archdemon is also highly unlikely to obey any mortal, even one as powerful as Corypheus (who, as far as we have seen, has no control over Darkspawn), and certainly wouldn't obey some random Tevinter smug snake like Erimond.
 
There isn't room for debate on this point. You just have your facts mixed up. There is not a plot hole, Corypheus's dragon is not in fact an Archdemon.

What always bothered me about the game is that it's not, however. It would make perfect sense, except for the control issue, which I'm sure they could have worked out. It would have made more sense for a darkspawn Magister to have a darkspawn army, blight or no.

[Ariella]

What always bothered me about the game is that it's not, however. It would make perfect sense, except for the control issue, which I'm sure they could have worked out. It would have made more sense for a darkspawn Magister to have a darkspawn army, blight or no.

Corypheus says he intends to 'correct this blighted world'. I don't think he wants anything to do with the spawn. And the only reason he's got the dragon is to show his distain for the gods he once served.

[SmilesJA]

You really had to dedicate an entire thread to this? It affects you that much?

 

Considering how some people dedicated entire threads stating how DAI sucks. I don't see the problem with this.

[Majestic Jazz]

Robert, I've got him on mute, but did he really call Cory's dragon an anomoly?

He can't name the Old God the dragon supposedly was, can't acknowledge it still took a warden to kill the thing, even if the dr is done, and it took a warden to father the child.

Urgh...

 

Lol how Ariella puts anyone on mute that does not always agree with your opinions. So childish and elementary.

[Morty Smith]

I miss off-topic ...