96 réponses à ce sujet

[The Arbiter]

 
Yup - even with a full 15 mins filters most times I set out ... didn't want to hang around since the game auto-saves, didn't want to run the risk of hitting an auto-save point just before running out of filters. Hence I didn't bother exploring above ground, just legged it and shot anything that got in the way. Though I've not played Last Light yet, only 2033 - it's on my todo list.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a BS mechanic, it works well enough in Metro, but it is a hindrance - it's supposed to be - and it's one I don't think needs to be in MEA... unless they're making MEA into some kind of survival game. If there's an orbital oxygen drop option then there's the option to just run until you're dead and reload, work out how far away you can call down the orbital drop next time around.... it's not adding difficulty or anything you need to think about just an additional die/reload cycle.

 

Normally I'm something of a competionist - but if a game puts a death-clock in? Nah, screw it, I'll just leg it through that section as fast as I can until I get back to a somewhere I can take at my own pace, I like to take my time when poking around in dark corners. I do tend to play more turn based games though, Civ, XCOM, Shadowrun, Divinity OS, Endless Legend and so on, which is probably why I don't like games attempting to "rush" me (I'm really bad at StarCraft II PvP as well - I tend to turtle).

 

... and I don't think there's anything wrong with linear games, it's easier to tell better stories if there's a set plot. The term "open world" actually worries me with games; it tends to equate to pointless filler quests or wandering the wilderness picking flowers (I'm looking at you Oblivion). Yeah, I'm gonna say it, I don't like The Elder Scrolls games! I own Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim and I've not even bothered to install Skyrim.

 

TW3 is about the only open world game that's actually pulled it off IMO - and even then I couldn't be bothered to go explore all the random loot locations kicking about. There was still nigh on 200 hours of gameplay there.

The only thing I see as a hindrance for Oxygen limitations if Andromeda is procedurally generated. If it is then we can forget about Oxygen supplies.

 

Also how can you not explore this I mean look at it! I am trying to get the ranger stash achievements

 

[Zazzerka]

Metro is not a good analogue. Great games, but they don't represent modern exosuits (is that what we call them?) in the slightest. Having to scavenge for crappy fibre-based filters makes for geat atmosphere in the Metro universe, but a top-of-the-line ship's computer telling me I have five minutes to return to an airlock for a refill before I suffocate does not. Unless there is a specific set piece during the game where we are left with a severely depleted tank and have to find reserves, I can't see it working like you want it to.

[AlanC9]

It could also work if time was a real constraint in the game. If the main plot really was the "Race Against Time" that ME1 lied about being, then you'd want to finish the mission with your first tanks rather burning time by recharging. (The probability of Bio doing this is zero, of course.)


D&D-based games typically fail to have interesting resource management because there's no cost except tedium for recharging. Hell, often you're better off recharging because you get XP and loot from the random encounters that are supposed to deter resting.

[Cyonan]

As I recall from playing Last Light, I never really actually had to worry about the time on the filters because the game threw so many of the damn things at me. The same went for Dead Space where I was never legitimately at risk of running out of oxygen.

 

What it comes down to for me is simply this: Do I think oxygen would be a compelling and fun mechanic to include in Mass Effect? Using Metro and Dead Space as the example for this mechanic like we have been, then it's a definite no because I don't consider either of those games as being any better for having said mechanics. They were ultimately just a button I needed to remember to push every 15 minutes.

 

It could put a timer on fights but then as I mentioned before, it'll likely be balanced around an average skilled player using the slowest killing class in the game. Me playing as a Vanguard or Infiltrator like I normally do means I'm going to laugh at the time constraints.

 

I'd rather see hazards that alter the dynamic of combat like sandstorms for reduced visibility.

[wolfhowwl]

then what would make a boring map fun? add slender man into the mix?

Ideally the boring content wouldn't be in the game in the first place.

 

Even if there are boring maps I disagree that adding on mechanics that force the player to do what amounts to bookkeeping or tethering them to a supply point would help matters.

[Zazzerka]

Hard to make a boring map in space, IMO. While trudging through the geth Dreadnought's broken docking port or the wrecked Normandy SR-1's CIC, I was full of glee. More utilisation of mag boots and/or jetpacks will only gain points with me.

[Cyonan]

Ideally the boring content wouldn't be in the game in the first place.

 

Even if there are boring maps I disagree that adding on mechanics that force the player to do what amounts to bookkeeping or tethering them to a supply point would help matters.

 

Yeah, none of the mechanics mentioned in this thread would save a boring map.

 

They're intended to augment actually compelling and interesting content, not replace it.

[capn233]

You can put me in the camp of "strongly opposed" to limited oxygen for MEA.  It would come down to a rehash of the Hot or Cold hazard from ME1 which made very little impact on anything except how close you stayed to the Mako (and even then you could sprint so fast it was comical).  God help us if MEA turns into Inquisition In Space and we go to planet Hinterland and have to watch the O₂ tank while picking up potassium.

 

People look fondly on Haestrom because it was a unique situation, it was a fairly well designed mission, and it had a popular character in it.  Expand weird shield debuff to more locations and it would not be remembered the same way.  I would not be opposed to a couple unique hazards on different worlds, but it should not be a regular mechanic.

[The Arbiter]

As I recall from playing Last Light, I never really actually had to worry about the time on the filters because the game threw so many of the damn things at me. The same went for Dead Space where I was never legitimately at risk of running out of oxygen.

 

What it comes down to for me is simply this: Do I think oxygen would be a compelling and fun mechanic to include in Mass Effect? Using Metro and Dead Space as the example for this mechanic like we have been, then it's a definite no because I don't consider either of those games as being any better for having said mechanics. They were ultimately just a button I needed to remember to push every 15 minutes.

 

It could put a timer on fights but then as I mentioned before, it'll likely be balanced around an average skilled player using the slowest killing class in the game. Me playing as a Vanguard or Infiltrator like I normally do means I'm going to laugh at the time constraints.

 

I'd rather see hazards that alter the dynamic of combat like sandstorms for reduced visibility.

what difficulty were you playing? In Hardcore ranger mode filters usually lasts only up to a minute and most of them have defects and would require change after freaking 50 seconds. The highest you can go I believe is 6 minutes wayyyyy lower than normal mode. More so if you have 2033 redux god help you with the filters. 

[Cyonan]

what difficulty were you playing? In Hardcore ranger mode filters usually lasts only up to a minute and most of them have defects and would require change after freaking 50 seconds. The highest you can go I believe is 6 minutes wayyyyy lower than normal mode. More so if you have 2033 redux god help you with the filters. 

 

It was a while ago so I don't remember the difficulty, but I always play FPS on higher ones because I've been playing them for over 2 decades and I like to consider myself above average at least.

 

Of course, even if I think about playing it as though I had to give a damn about the filter timers I still don't see how that would be a compelling mechanic. I find that generally resource management doesn't make for an interesting mechanic unless the entire game is about it like say, Don't Starve.

 

I also never played 2033. Just Last Light.

[Nitrocuban]

I remember filters to be one big pain in the bum. too. The worst part was the gas mask getting foggy at the end of a filter which made it even harder to find a new one. And I somehow managed to create a save game where I had literally just seconds left to pick up a new filter. Forced to replay the savegame for like 10 times hysterically running around with blurred vision trying to find a new filter - that's not fun gameplay imho.

[Xerxes52]

I didn't like limited fuel or probes, so I definitely won't like limited air supply.

[The Arbiter]

I remember filters to be one big pain in the bum. too. The worst part was the gas mask getting foggy at the end of a filter which made it even harder to find a new one. And I somehow managed to create a save game where I had literally just seconds left to pick up a new filter. Forced to replay the savegame for like 10 times hysterically running around with blurred vision trying to find a new filter - that's not fun gameplay imho.

gas masks don't fog up. They get cluttered with blood, cracks and all sorts of crap if you do not wipe them. Unless if you have the original 2033? 

 

Not a fun gameplay? lol what... I don't even. HERE YA GO:

 

[Reezus Christ]

With all the complaining about how much BioWare keeps making their games like other ones, why do people keep asking or wanting features from other games instead of waiting to see what BioWare wants to do?

Mass Effect only got better from a gameplay perspective because they were smart enough to emulate another notable franchise. Taking features from other games to possibly improve isn't a problem.

[This is the End My Friend]

Mass Effect only got better from a gameplay perspective because they were smart enough to emulate another notable franchise. Taking features from other games to possibly improve isn't a problem.

 

Yeah, in this day in age its really hard to not be influenced either directly or indirectly by another developer. It really comes down to whether or not you properly assess what will work with what you've got in place already. 

[Reezus Christ]

Yeah, in this day in age its really hard to not be influenced either directly or indirectly by another developer. It really comes down to whether or not you properly assess what will work with what you've got in place already. 

Ding ding ding. Exactly.

[capn233]

Borrowing for the sake of simply adding another mechanic is not a good idea.

 

The only games I have personally played that had anything like limited O2 or radiation where it was done well was Half Life and Dead Space, and in both cases this worked because it was in limited basically set piece environments.

 

MEA is most likely going to include more open environments, where a mechanic like this simply adds tedium.

[Chealec]

what difficulty were you playing? In Hardcore ranger mode filters usually lasts only up to a minute and most of them have defects and would require change after freaking 50 seconds. The highest you can go I believe is 6 minutes wayyyyy lower than normal mode. More so if you have 2033 redux god help you with the filters. 

 

I would have died sooooo many times then even though I didn't go exploring, I played 2033 redux on normal difficulty survivor mode; generally always do my first play through of any shooter on normal difficulty, I'm a wuss like that - you get 15 minutes max filter time there were places where I was down to about 5 and a bit minutes where it took me a while to work out where I was supposed to go.

 

 

And I somehow managed to create a save game where I had literally just seconds left to pick up a new filter. Forced to replay the savegame for like 10 times hysterically running around with blurred vision trying to find a new filter - that's not fun gameplay imho.

 

I had a gas mask crap out just about here:

 

https://youtu.be/gXVomf03Irg?t=7m29s

 

... which was just after a save point so if I went back down, I died. Thankfully there's a corpse with a new gas mask over by the edge of the building nearby but it took me a couple of attempts to find it. Thought that was pretty crappy myself, essentially a forced, explore > die > reload loop until you find it. The radio tower's over there somewhere but after that experience with filter and with demons around I decided to just leg it back down and hope for the best.

[Sylvius the Mad]

You would need power to accelerate to FTL speed. Assuming newton's laws still apply to beyond FTL speeds as soon as you reach your desired speed you would turn off your engine and coast until you need to decelerate to arrive at your destination.

They don't, though. That's sort of the point. FTL travel requires exotic physics.

Bioware also conveniently ignored the time dilation that would result with near light/FTL speeds. Interstellar did a good job addressing this, every second that goes by while you're traveling at light speeds is years on earth.

This would only be true if you were passing through the intervening space-time, but if you were you'd be limited to sub-light speeds. FTL requires some sort of short-cut.

That is not to say that BioWare actually deals with these issues - I expect they didn't give them a moment's thought - but the explanations aren't as simple as you describe.

[Chealec]

They don't, though. That's sort of the point. FTL travel requires exotic physics.

 

 

Heh - yeah, with my limited understanding of the subject matter, I believe if you ever reach light speed you'd have infinite mass, infinite volume and time would stop... which is why light is weird; it has both zero mass and a point mass and behaves as both a wave and a particle... I think, remembering back through the aeons to A Level Physics. O_o
 

[Zekka]

I'm thinking that Bioware could implement a difficulty mode called hardcore or lore mode in which gameplay completely or at least tries to fit the lore.

Things like radiation, oxygen, fuel, weapon jamming, dying or passing out from overusing Biotics, Biotics being very powerful and crap like that

[Arcian]

(1) You would need power to accelerate to FTL speed. Assuming newton's laws still apply to beyond FTL speeds as soon as you reach your desired speed you would turn off your engine and coast until you need to decelerate to arrive at your destination. 

 

(2) As the physics of "negative mass" are poorly understood it's likely the bioware just sort of BSed some technobabble sounding "mass effect FTL drive" description to make the normandy conveniently have a fuel system that mirrors that of conventional aircraft and ships (ie you need to constantly burn fuel to maintain speed).

 

(3) Bioware also conveniently ignored the time dilation that would result with near light/FTL speeds. Interstellar did a good job addressing this, every second that goes by while you're traveling at light speeds is years on earth. 

1) Newton's Laws only apply to FTL speeds if the mass effect engine is running. If it stops running while the ship is at FTL speeds, the laws of instantaneous destruction takes over.

 

2) Mass Effect FTL has nothing to do with negative mass. Mass Effect FTL is achieved by reducing mass within a field, which forces the local speed of light to increase since the level of energy stays the same. This is a consequence of messing with the mass-energy equivalence. The result is that the speed of light isn't actually broken - the ship is still travelling below the speed of light LOCALLY, even though that local speed of light is many thousands of times higher than the speed of light outside the field.

 

3) Time dilation in Interstellar was caused by Gargantua's massive gravity well, not near-light speed velocities. That's beside the point that Mass Effect FTL doesn't cause time dilation since they never actually come anywhere close to the local light speed within the mass effect field.