Of course it exist
Let your female warden has a romance with Leliana, and they will still together, even if she is divine.
Isn't bad the homosexuality in Thedas.
Is that a marriage or is that a relationship? Is just being with the person considered a marriage?
A marriage point is only legal terms and nothing more.
Gaider actually spoke on this once (I'm sorry that I don't have a link). I distinctly remember him saying that gay marriage would be anachronistic in Thedas and wouldn't even occur to anyone because marriage in Thedas exists mostly to propagate lineages.
However, I remember that people challenged that because the Hawkes (Malcom and Leandra) clearly got married for love and not any kind of political/social pressure, so 'marriages for love' do exist in Thedas. Not saying that this means that gay marriage should exist in this setting, but it does poke a hole in the 'it wouldn't even occur to people to marry for anything other lineage propagation' statement.
That's one of Gaider's worst arguments. You already covered the latter part, so I'll cover the first:
Same-sex marriage would be anachronistic? Thedas is not Earth in the middle ages, and it was never trying to be Earth in the middle ages - technologically or culturally. If he wants to use that argument, he would also have to say that they need sexism and skin-colour racism, because it would be anachronistic not to. And we could use more examples ad infinitum.
Well, we know that marriage is used among nobles in Chantry dominated countries to form alliances while lgbt nobles are not forbidden by law to follow their hearts their families might get in the way as with Dorian. Non Chantric cultures such as the Dalish or the Qun are unknown, unless I missed something. I don't think the Qun has marriage?
Well, we know that marriage is used among nobles in Chantry dominated countries to form alliances while lgbt nobles are not forbidden by law to follow their hearts their families might get in the way as with Dorian. Non Chantric cultures such as the Dalish or the Qun are unknown, unless I missed something. I don't think the Qun has marriage?
That's one of Gaider's worst arguments. You already covered the latter part, so I'll cover the first:
Same-sex marriage would be anachronistic? Thedas is not Earth in the middle ages, and it was never trying to be Earth in the middle ages - technologically or culturally. If he wants to use that argument, he would also have to say that they need sexism and skin-colour racism, because it would be anachronistic not to. And we could use more examples ad infinitum.
Before you go on about this , answer this question first....Why even get married in cases like this in this culture?
Before you go on about this , answer this question first....Why even get married in cases like this in this culture?
Because people may just simply want to. Just look at Leandra and Malcolm Hawke, who get married simply because they love each other. If Leandra was Leo or Malcolm was Malinda, there is nothing to suggest they would act any different than they did.
Oh, yes. Lets not forget about Leandra, Malcolm and non nobles who marry out of love. Would the Chantry stop two women who wanted to elope? My thinking is no. Unless you are a noble who is expected to marry for the purposes of producing an heir the codex "Sexuality in Thedas" suggest phobia is not really an issue in Thedas, but it doesn't really go into detail.
Why wouldn't there be gay marriages?
Thedas is surprisingly tolerant of non-straight people. Doesn't matter if there's a concern on population or making the perfect noble baby, there are definitely gay marriages.
The Dragon Age universe has a society that forbids blood magic - they even have an entire military force formed specifically to combat the dangers of it - yet people still practice blood magic. If people are that determined to do something forbidden just because they want to, then I don't know why people won't go through with something that's not even looked down upon like gay marriage. It might even be easier for gay people to be married here because they don't have anti-gay Templars, nor do they lock up gay people in towers
Why wouldn't there be gay marriages?
Thedas is surprisingly tolerant of non-straight people. Doesn't matter if there's a concern on population or making the perfect noble baby, there are definitely gay marriages.
The Dragon Age universe has a society that forbids blood magic - they even have an entire military force formed specifically to combat the dangers of it - yet people still practice blood magic. If people are that determined to do something forbidden just because they want to, then I don't know why people won't go through with something that's not even looked down upon like gay marriage. It might even be easier for gay people to be married here because they don't have anti-gay Templars, nor do they lock up gay people in towers
I got the impression outside of nobility an the such no one really bothers about marriage
Same I think only nobles can marry. Like Celine wanted marry someone from Ferelden to bring peace, she didn't even care who it is as long as it is high ranking noble best king because no one would accept empress marring some random noble. But all this nobility in Theads is weird no one care to have heir Celine no kids Gaspard no kids Ferelden same.
Elfs have some marriage ritual as we see in DA:O
Of course gay marriage exists in Thedas. That was the point of the codex "Sexuality in Thedas"...to establish that its okay for men to have sex with men and for women to have sex with women and to settle any and all debate concerning the matter. Anyone who continued to argue against that in any shape or form would eventually be called all sorts of names ranging from "bigot" to "judgmental".
Western gaming society would eventually implode on itself if they didn't say its okay for all that...because we have to be all inclusive for everything now don't we?
The ironic thing is that people always end up disagreeing on "everything".
Commoners absolutely do marry, there are so many mentions of wives and husbands after all. But yes, for a nobility said to be obsessed with bloodlines, there sure are a whole lot of unmarried and/or child-free people in high places. Origins mentioned the lack of heirs as the reason why Cailan's marriage with Anora was on shaky ground (and of course she was blamed for it, despite him being a unfaithful sh*t who nonetheless had not produced any known bastards), but that's the only situation I can recall in which it was considered an issue.
Arl Eamon was nudging Calian to consider putting aside Anora because she hadn't produced an heir by this point. It's implied in Return to Ostagar that this is the reason Eamon was not at Ostagar, because Calian was angry over the slight to Anora.
Eamon was planning on sending knights to Ostagar, and Duncan said they should be there in less than a week. Cailan joked that Eamon just wanted in on the glory. I don't think there was any animosity between them over Eamon's suggestion to annul his marriage with Anora. Also, the crumpled note was one from Celene, not Eamon.
Eamon was planning on sending knights to Ostagar, and Duncan said they should be there in less than a week. Cailan joked that Eamon just wanted in on the glory. I don't think there was any animosity between them over Eamon's suggestion to annul his marriage with Anora. Also, the crumpled note was one from Celene, not Eamon.
nope, Eamon definitely suggested setting aside Anora in the documents you find in RtO, though I agree he was going to send forces:
Your Majesty,
My men will arrive as soon as possible to bolster your forces. Maker willing, this Blightwill be ended before it has begun.
Cailan, I beseech you, as your uncle, not to join the Grey Wardens on the Field. You cannot afford to take this risk. Ferelden cannot afford it. Let me remind you again that you do not have an heir. Your death--and it pains me even to think of it--would plunge Ferelden into chaos.
And yes, perhaps when this is over you will allow me to bring up the subject of your heir. While a son from both the Theirin and Mac Tir lines would unite Ferelden like no other, we must accept that perhaps this can never be. The queen approaches her thirtieth year and her ability to give you a child lessens with each passing month. I submit to you again that it might be time to put Anora aside. We parted harshly the last time I spoke of this, but it has been a full year since then and nothing has changed.
Please, nephew, consider my words, and Andraste's grace be with you.
-- "A letter from Arl Eamon to King Cailan"
Of course gay marriage exists in Thedas. That was the point of the codex "Sexuality in Thedas"...to establish that its okay for men to have sex with men and for women to have sex with women and to settle any and all debate concerning the matter.
That codex explains that homophobia is near-nonexistent, but says nothing of marriage. Sex =/= marriage.
Perhaps, but that wasn't the intention of putting that codex entry into the game.
Probably because their god/s don't care what you do in your bedroom or who you bed. Just saying.
nope, Eamon definitely suggested setting aside Anora in the documents you find in RtO, though I agree he was going to send forces:
Don't remind me ... Eamon was such a shady tosser, it really bugged me that it's impossible to call him on any of his crap. The fact that he became a close advisor to a newly-crowned Alistair is probably my only regret regarding my world state post ultimate sacrifice.
Thankfully there is no mention of him in Inquisition. Though if he wasn't too old, he'd be a perfect fit for the agitating Fereldan nobleman in the Trespasser trailer. (I still hope it's not Teagan, who actually always struck me as a good guy.)
nope, Eamon definitely suggested setting aside Anora in the documents you find in RtO, though I agree he was going to send forces:
I never wrote otherwise. In fact I wrote that he did suggest that. My point was that it didn't create animosity between them that would have kept Eamon away from Ostagar.
Yes and No. Depends on country. Qunari don't even have marriage. Elfs have low numbers and can have elfs only with elfs so no. Other contrys don't know. From Dorian quest most likely in Tevinter no. I think it would be legal in Antiva.
@The topic:
That would depend on several factors. First, marriage is first and foremost a contract. Whether you marry for love or not, the difference between a relationship and a marriage is that marriage gives you legal rights and obligations, and official recognition by a community or authority. As we know, tolerance of same-sex relationships is generally not a problem in Thedas, but tolerance is different from official recognition. Such official recognition may depend on cultural traditions about what marriage actually "is for". If is is mainly about children and inheritance, a same-sex marriage would be unlikely to occur to anyone. I suspect it would not be a big matter in RL cultures either if not for the tradition of homophobia in the institutions that have historically recognized marriage.
Also note that in RL history, while the idea of marriage for love (alone) has always existed, it only became culturally dominant in the 19th century (and even then, in western cultures only). In earlier times, while love certainly was desired, it alone would not be regarded as a sufficient reason to marry. The dominant idea - reflected to this day in many countries' marriage laws - was that matrimony was a form of community of accrued gain. Inasfar as Thedas' cultures are inspired by Europe's renaissance and early modern periods (which I assume they are except in aspects explicitly written otherwise), I would expect Thedas to reflect that.
So, I expect that legally a same-sex marriage is possible in most Thedosian cultures with a tradition of marriage, because an "it's no problem" attitude towards same-sex relationships means it wouldn't occur to most people to forbid it, but you'd probably be looked at strangely, with the implied question "Why the heck would you even want that"? The nobility would probably discourage it strongly based on their need for continuation of the bloodlines, it would be regarded as inconvenient and undesirable at least for the heir and the spare. Again, if it occured to anyone in the first place,
Don't remind me ... Eamon was such a shady tosser, it really bugged me that it's impossible to call him on any of his crap. The fact that he became a close advisor to a newly-crowned Alistair is probably my only regret regarding my world state post ultimate sacrifice.
Thankfully there is no mention of him in Inquisition. Though if he wasn't too old, he'd be a perfect fit for the agitating Fereldan nobleman in the Trespasser trailer. (I still hope it's not Teagan, who actually always struck me as a good guy.)
Apparently the Ferelden guy is Teagan
Don't remind me ... Eamon was such a shady tosser, it really bugged me that it's impossible to call him on any of his crap. The fact that he became a close advisor to a newly-crowned Alistair is probably my only regret regarding my world state post ultimate sacrifice.
Thankfully there is no mention of him in Inquisition. Though if he wasn't too old, he'd be a perfect fit for the agitating Fereldan nobleman in the Trespasser trailer. (I still hope it's not Teagan, who actually always struck me as a good guy.)
TBH I think people vastly over-estimates how Eamon is some kind of shady manipulator. He is an old noble set in his ways who really wants a Theirin on the throne. Him wanting to have lowkey influence with the monarch is not really surprising.
I never understood why some people had such strong feelings about him
I never wrote otherwise. In fact I wrote that he did suggest that. My point was that it didn't create animosity between them that would have kept Eamon away from Ostagar.
You suggested this note was from Celene. So I thought you said Eamon didn't write the note. Which he did. Hence my response.
nope, Eamon definitely suggested setting aside Anora in the documents you find in RtO, though I agree he was going to send forces:
Your Majesty,
My men will arrive as soon as possible to bolster your forces. Maker willing, this Blightwill be ended before it has begun.
Cailan, I beseech you, as your uncle, not to join the Grey Wardens on the Field. You cannot afford to take this risk. Ferelden cannot afford it. Let me remind you again that you do not have an heir. Your death--and it pains me even to think of it--would plunge Ferelden into chaos.
And yes, perhaps when this is over you will allow me to bring up the subject of your heir. While a son from both the Theirin and Mac Tir lines would unite Ferelden like no other, we must accept that perhaps this can never be. The queen approaches her thirtieth year and her ability to give you a child lessens with each passing month. I submit to you again that it might be time to put Anora aside. We parted harshly the last time I spoke of this, but it has been a full year since then and nothing has changed.
Please, nephew, consider my words, and Andraste's grace be with you.
-- "A letter from Arl Eamon to King Cailan"
I guess I was wrong someone have brains to care about succession of the throne.
Hmmmm. If there are nobles in the Winter Palace speculating on a marriage between the Inquisitor and his/her s/s romance, then maybe Gaider changed his mind on the 'anachronistic' argument? There certainly are marriages among the commoners and we know for sure that there are marriages for love, so it would set a precedent for it. Funny, I've done that quest twice with s/s romances (once with Adaar/Dorian and once with Cadash/Bull) and never heard that gossip. I've started a new playthrough that I'm slowly working through with Cadash/Dorian. I'll have to keep an ear out for it.
I'd have to say that that one line might be enough to make me lean towards the argument that there actually is s/s marriage in Thedas, after all.
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