174 réponses à ce sujet

[NaclynE]

I think marriage in Thedas more of a thing that happens between noble families to tie them together and produce offspring with their names carrying over and stuff. I always got the impression that marriage is not something made out of love in Thedas (at least not primary) and so it's not important for same sex couples to marry.

 

However it seems far more common and accepted in Orlias than in Ferelden. Tevintir seems to treat this as a punishable by death thing because there more keeping it men and women only which is why Dorian is elsewhere anyway and away from his dad because Dorians dad was against this and 'tried to change him' (quoted by Dorian) which Dorian hated. Orlias wise it seemed like gay/lez or multiple relationships or affairs are the norm. Celene was only meh about her own relationship because she was afraid of any political backlash. However when exposed it sounded like (if) Celene and Brialla hooked up and wed this gets accepted by most. As far as affairs and multiple relationships Vivianne says it herself she loved her husbands mistress and had 'relations' with her. They were on good terms despite the mistress eventually dieing (I suspect how,why and who). She still loved her husband despite the threesome relationship they had. 

[Bethgael]

I hope it does. I would love to have my Inquisitor marry Sera. I mean you can sort of jokingly ask her in one of the romance scenes. 

 

I like to think that My Inky could get married to Sera at some point in time. Now that would be a kick ass wedding. Lol.

 

When you get Zevran's earring, both male and female Warden can jokingly/seriously ask "does this make us engaged".

[Inverse_Twilight]

When you get Zevran's earring, both male and female Warden can jokingly/seriously ask "does this make us engaged".

There are a few example of your character jokingly suggesting marriage. I think there is also a scene with Bull where Inky can freak him out with talk of marriage and then laugh at him after.

[BansheeOwnage]

Interesting...I have not heard that dialog in the playthroughs, Lavellan/Solas and male Trevelyan/Dorian.

 

Edit: I didn't hear it with my single Lavallan either. The Winter Palace is hands down my favorite sequence in the entire game and I take my time there everytime. Very odd that I didn't notice this. Where are these nobles located?

I believe that was a mistake and they were referring to the nobles in the Skyhold main hall. I could be wrong though.

[SwobyJ]

@The topic:

That would depend on several factors. First, marriage is first and foremost a contract. Whether you marry for love or not, the difference between a relationship and a marriage is that marriage gives you legal rights and obligations, and official recognition by a community or authority. As we know, tolerance of same-sex relationships is generally not a problem in Thedas, but tolerance is different from official recognition. Such official recognition may depend on cultural traditions about what marriage actually "is for". If is is mainly about children and inheritance, a same-sex marriage would be unlikely to occur to anyone. I suspect it would not be a big matter in RL cultures either if not for the tradition of homophobia in the institutions that have historically recognized marriage.

 

Also note that in RL history, while the idea of marriage for love (alone) has always existed, it only became culturally dominant in the 19th century (and even then, in western cultures only). In earlier times, while love certainly was desired, it alone would not be regarded as a sufficient reason to marry. The dominant idea - reflected to this day in many countries' marriage laws - was that matrimony was a form of community of accrued gain. Inasfar as Thedas' cultures are inspired by Europe's renaissance and early modern periods (which I assume they are except in aspects explicitly written otherwise), I would expect Thedas to reflect that. 

 

So, I expect that legally a same-sex marriage is possible in most Thedosian cultures with a tradition of marriage, because an "it's no problem" attitude towards same-sex relationships means it wouldn't occur to most people to forbid it, but you'd probably be looked at strangely, with the implied question "Why the heck would you even want that"? The nobility would probably discourage it strongly based on their need for continuation of the bloodlines, it would be regarded as inconvenient and undesirable at least for the heir and the spare. Again, if it occured to anyone in the first place,

 

/thread

 

Really. I think it boils down to 'probably but it isn't a norm - not necessarily due to hateful discrimination towards homosexuals, but more a confusion about the practicality when you could otherwise just have a close bond, recognized by friends and family, and leave it at that'. Because Marriage in Thedas does not necessarily = Marriage in America, culturally.

[BansheeOwnage]

There are a few example of your character jokingly suggesting marriage. I think there is also a scene with Bull where Inky can freak him out with talk of marriage and then laugh at him after.

If that's true, and you can do it as a man, wouldn't it imply it was possible? If it weren't, Bull would know you're teasing him and not get freaked out. You could argue he doesn't know how marriage works since it's literally a foreign concept to him, but that would make him a fairly incompetent spy.

[BansheeOwnage]

/thread

 

Really. I think it boils down to 'probably but it isn't a norm - not necessarily due to hateful discrimination towards homosexuals, but more a confusion about the practicality when you could otherwise just have a close bond, recognized by friends and family, and leave it at that'. Because Marriage in Thedas does not necessarily = Marriage in America, culturally.

There would surely be some confusion when it comes to heirs, but I'm sure the same-sex couples in Thedas could want the other legal benefits of marriage, just like today. So in that sense, it shouldn't be a confusing idea.

[SwobyJ]

There would surely be some confusion when it comes to heirs, but I'm sure the same-sex couples in Thedas could want the other legal benefits of marriage, just like today. So in that sense, it shouldn't be a confusing idea.

 

I said confusion, not that it should be confusing, or that this confusion is a big deal beyond peoples' lack of knowledge about how things would exactly work.

 

Dragon Age seems to follow the more common traditional view of marriage (oh boy, what a debate that could start), but softens all the edges at least a little. Does it for several other social dilemmas too - race, gender, religion. I'm pretty sure there's same sex marriage in Thedas. I'm just also pretty sure that it isn't regarded as common as opposite sex marriage. Heirs most often come through heterosexual intercourse, families form contracts through this procreation, and two people bonded = more of a default of heterosexual marriage.

 

I've seen nothing that has anyone at all against same sex marriage, and I've seen characters, if anything, treat homosexual romantic and sexual relationships as equal to heterosexual ones.

 

So I can easily guess that when there are love marriages in particular, they can be homosexual. They may not be respected or favored as much by those who put extra high priority on marriage for contractual lineage purposes, but that's it. A slight quirk, like anything else 'gay' in Thedas.

 

There's a reason why Gaider had to stretch things pretty far to get a gay-problem story for Dorian. Tevinter. Elite class. Produce children heirs without Dorian while Dorian refuses to have sex with a woman (or perhaps even set up any sort of marriage relationship with one). That's a pretty rare situation.

 

Bioware could clear this up better, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a DA4 or DA5 that makes it 100% clear that gay marriage is valid in Thedas, if very rare and with its own details, and even opposition (but less so because the people are gay, and more because of things like Dorian's situation - heirs not happening).

[BansheeOwnage]

 

There's a reason why Gaider had to stretch things pretty far to get a gay-problem story for Dorian. Tevinter. Elite class. Produce children heirs without Dorian while Dorian refuses to have sex with a woman (or perhaps even set up any sort of marriage relationship with one). That's a pretty rare situation.

 

Bioware could clear this up better, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a DA4 or DA5 that makes it 100% clear that gay marriage is valid in Thedas, if very rare and with its own details, and even opposition (but less so because the people are gay, and more because of things like Dorian's situation - heirs not happening).

Mentioning Dorian's rare situation also gave me a minor thought: His father may not have even put him through all of that trouble if he had a sibling or two, and most noble lines seem to have many children, like the Trevelyans. So I would imagine this would ease some of the pressure off of siblings who happen to be gay. So we can also add "only child" to Dorian's list of contributing factors.

[SwobyJ]

Mentioning Dorian's rare situation also gave me a minor thought: His father may not have even put him through all of that trouble if he had a sibling or two, and most noble lines seem to have many children, like the Trevelyans. So I would imagine this would ease some of the pressure off of siblings who happen to be gay. So we can also add "only child" to Dorian's list of contributing factors.

 

 

It might have, yeah.

 

I sometimes think that for myself. I was raised by my aunt and uncle (already a point of separation), and they had one son with a daughter. It likely eased my coming out that the 'having grandchildren' goal was already fulfilled.

[X Equestris]

Mentioning Dorian's rare situation also gave me a minor thought: His father may not have even put him through all of that trouble if he had a sibling or two, and most noble lines seem to have many children, like the Trevelyans. So I would imagine this would ease some of the pressure off of siblings who happen to be gay. So we can also add "only child" to Dorian's list of contributing factors.

Yeah, most likely a side effect of how much Dorian's parents hated each other. They did it just enough to have one heir, and put all of their hopes on said child. Which was a dumb move regardless. A lot of bad things can happen before a child has the opportunity to take their parent's title.

[nightscrawl]

Hearing about the two year time skip got me speculating about the futures of each romance, and I wondered whether marriage was in the pipeline for my dorianmancer.

I'll start off by saying that Dorian is my canon LI in the game and that marriage is something that my Inquisitor would be interested in for RP reasons which I won't get into here.

That said, I very highly doubt that Dorian has really ever thought about marrying a male partner. You have to remember that he never really even considered that he would have one in the first place. For nobility marriage is a transaction, and for Dorian specifically marriage was a potential cage. He also does not have a good example of marriage as set by his parents, although it does seem -- according to WoT Vol. 2 -- that Alexius and his wife were happily married and had a real partnership in the marriage in every sense of the word.

 

I'm not going to speculate on whether he would want to get married, but I will say that to be asked, or at least raised in conversation would probably mean a great deal specifically because it's not done with same-sex members of the nobility.

[BansheeOwnage]

Well, I was listening to some of the Trespasser soundtrack on youtube, and there is a thumbnail of marrying Sera. So apparently, yes, gay marriage exists in Thedas, unless I missed something.

[Beren Von Ostwick]

Well, I was listening to some of the Trespasser soundtrack on youtube, and there is a thumbnail of marrying Sera. So apparently, yes, gay marriage exists in Thedas, unless I missed something.

 

Oh yes

 

Oh man, I was freaking out.  Reading her notes, I was expecting some horrible news.

 

Spoiler

But then I squeed like a little girl and got sideways!  Well, I guess that answers THAT  thread's question.

 

"Good cookies"  "no underwear" indeed.

 

[Ashaantha]

Well, I was listening to some of the Trespasser soundtrack on youtube, and there is a thumbnail of marrying Sera. So apparently, yes, gay marriage exists in Thedas, unless I missed something.

 

You got it right. Definitely exists, even for certain PC's

[QuarianOtter]

When Sera makes her proposal, there is an investigate option where Inky says "Well hold on marriage is a contract for titles and heirs" and Sera basically says screw that, you're the Inquisitor, you can do this and they aren't going to bother to stop you. So it's acknowledged that for Thedosians same-sex marriages are not really a normal thing.

 

So maybe the Chantry really never bothered to stipulate that marriages must be between a man and a woman, and then people weren't really supposed to get married for love, but they do anyway and some people get married for love to someone of the same gender and the Chantry just shrugs.

[carlo angelo]

When Sera makes her proposal, there is an investigate option where Inky says "Well hold on marriage is a contract for titles and heirs" and Sera basically says screw that, you're the Inquisitor, you can do this and they aren't going to bother to stop you. So it's acknowledged that for Thedosians same-sex marriages are not really a normal thing.

 

So maybe the Chantry really never bothered to stipulate that marriages must be between a man and a woman, and then people weren't really supposed to get married for love, but they do anyway and some people get married for love to someone of the same gender and the Chantry just shrugs.

 

I like this idea. "Oh no, same sex marriage isn't normal, it's for nobles and ensuring alliances and heirs." "Pfft! Well, **** that, we'll do it anyway." "Sigh, oh well..."

[CoM Solaufein]

Can't wait to use my character that is romancing Sera.

[9TailsFox]

When Sera makes her proposal, there is an investigate option where Inky says "Well hold on marriage is a contract for titles and heirs" and Sera basically says screw that, you're the Inquisitor, you can do this and they aren't going to bother to stop you. So it's acknowledged that for Thedosians same-sex marriages are not really a normal thing.

 

So maybe the Chantry really never bothered to stipulate that marriages must be between a man and a woman, and then people weren't really supposed to get married for love, but they do anyway and some people get married for love to someone of the same gender and the Chantry just shrugs.

This is what I automatically Assumed marriage must be approved by lord, Teyrn, magister whatever is your ruler. And if you are peasant and you say I married this person, most people would be ok whatever  .

[OsiriNara]

Trespasser DLC: actually if your inquisitor's in a romance with Dorian when you talk to Cassandra in the Winter Palace she will nervously offer you congrats for your wedding... which is a lie Varric tells her. Still, that suggests that same sex marriage does exist.The Inquisitor could even tell her he's actually thinking about it.

[daveliam]

Yep. It might not be common, but Trespasser certainly confirms that same-sex marriage is a thing in Thedas. Goes against Gaider's statement that it's anachronistic in the setting and Thedosians wouldn't even understand the concept. Fine with me because this works better for my gay characters moving forward.

[Andreas Amell]

Man, I wasn't even aware that Sera and Femquisitor were having a same-sex marriage when I saw it. The tribulations of getting her approval alone buzz the mind. And Bioware won't let us have this with chance with Origins and DA2 characters now? Dammit! 

[BansheeOwnage]

Yep. It might not be common, but Trespasser certainly confirms that same-sex marriage is a thing in Thedas. Goes against Gaider's statement that it's anachronistic in the setting and Thedosians wouldn't even understand the concept. Fine with me because this works better for my gay characters moving forward.

This is also an example of why you shouldn't take Word of God too seriously, especially after a long time and/or changing writers. (And I wasn't referring to you, just in general.)

[Korva]

So I checked out the Sera video. It was a bit weird to not see the officiating person or any friend congratulating them, but if the bells actually were rung for them, three cheers for whoever had that done. Mother Giselle? Divine Cassandra the Bad*ss?

[Bhryaen]

It's just a testament to the game's genuine aspirations of reflecting real social reality that this subject even becomes an integral, viable prospect in a setting with magic, dragons, and people turning into red rock monsters.