415 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Artifice]

I absolutely hated both of those, I don't like my character being catcalled nor dismished being woman. In general I don't want game being sexist to my character, doesn't make me feel that happy. And the answer didn't really help, "have guy insult you so you can kick their ass and prove what strong woman you are!" is bit overused by now and lame too, not really kind of power fantasy I'm looking for.

 

Is it a power fantasy, though? I'd argue that the game wasn't being sexist, the characters were, and this was treated as an unfortunate inevitability of personal interaction, which it is. Society might continue to develop, almost certainly will, but we're never going to find a world completely absent of prejudice. 

[SmilesJA]

 

 

I didn't like the way her boobs inflated over the course of the series and I definitely did not like the slow jog animation from ME3 -- it was like ME was infected by the horrible "sexy run" from DA. Bioware, you're pretty progressive so you've been getting a pass from me but cut it out with the stupid swishy run, FFS.

 

That never bothered me, It's not like it grew to Isabela's size (and Isabela is a beautiful woman.  )

[SmilesJA]

Is it a power fantasy, though? I'd argue that the game wasn't being sexist, the characters were, and this was treated as an unfortunate inevitability of personal interaction, which it is. Society might continue to develop, almost certainly will, but were never going to find a world completely absent of prejudice. 

 

Agreed.

[BabyPuncher]

I absolutely hated both of those, I don't like my character being catcalled nor dismished being woman. In general I don't want game being sexist to my character, doesn't make me feel that happy. And the answer didn't really help, "have guy insult you so you can kick their ass and prove what strong woman you are!" is bit overused by now and lame too, not really kind of power fantasy I'm looking for.

 

Mmm.

 

And what of situations where it's not hostile or insulting? Like when Conred Verner calls female Shepard "the beautiful Commander Shepard" or something of the sort when they first meet, but doesn't say anything about a male Shepard being handsome.
 

[Former_Fiend]

Is it a power fantasy, though? I'd argue that the game wasn't being sexist, the characters were, and this was treated as an unfortunate inevitability of personal interaction, which it is. Society might continue to develop, almost certainly will, but were never going to find a world completely absent of prejudice. 

 

Yeah, this is my opinion on it. You need a few jackasses in the world for it to be believable, and sexism is easy jackass points. 

[SmilesJA]

Yeah, this is my opinion on it. You need a few jackasses in the world for it to be believable, and sexism is easy jackass points. 

 

Which is very satisfying once Femshep shuts them up.

[SolNebula]

I agree on a more feminine female protagonist. I think there is something cool in being a walking deadly beauty. A little like Morinth minus the psycho killing. I just don't like femshepard behaving like a man.

[Panda]

Is it a power fantasy, though? I'd argue that the game wasn't being sexist, the characters were, and this was treated as an unfortunate inevitability of personal interaction, which it is. Society might continue to develop, almost certainly will, but we're never going to find a world completely absent of prejudice. 

 

Characters in the game. I don't think the whole game is, but sexist behaviour towards main character who then punches heck out the offender is so used in various medias. I think it's something that devs think women like seeing, kind of feminist wet dream, being able to punch sexist people in the face thus power fantasy, but not really my power fantasy. I'd rather see female character being appreciated like it's normality than her having to defend her gender to sexist jerks.

[SardaukarElite]

Perception is everything. I'm more or less okay with the female DA animations, but when I say that to people who don't like it, I usually receive a lot of bristling in response. I acknowledge that the hips are exaggerated, and that they don't make much sense when the character is running and still flicking their bottom about at severe angles, but I'm cool with a little hip sway, and very cool when the hands move--as I've seen it aptly described--"like she thinks she's a pretty princess." I liked the way FemHawke stood, and traced the ground with her toe point when she was idle. 

 

::shrug:: I thought it was cute.

 

It's not a matter of principle for me, a right way or a wrong way, it's just what I prefer. I have more feminine mannerisms myself, and I like occasionally playing a character who matches. But it's not essential.

 

What I do think they should do avoid is designing anything too far towards either extreme. 

 

DA 2/I's female walk and run animations bug me because I think they're a poor representation of feminine movement. That said I don't like the male animations either and wouldn't wand those for female characters. Really I just don't like DA's animations. 

 

I liked the toe trace thing, but it's effectively a character quirk so I think it's something of a design issue for everyone to be forced to have it even if I like it for my characters. Of course the flip problem there is that a character without any quirks is boring so, you know, RPG conundrums.

[Panda]

Mmm.

 

And what of situations where it's not hostile or insulting? Like when Conred Verner calls female Shepard "the beautiful Commander Shepard" or something of the sort when they first meet, but doesn't say anything about a male Shepard being handsome.
 

 

I don't mind character noticing gender of my character, I don't like them disminishing my characters gender and then scene ending up my character beating them up either verbally or physically. Condrad is probably attracted to fem!Shep and I find it fine. I don't just like game going all sexist and then giving me option to punch sexist guys like it's some kind of power fantasy.

[Lady Artifice]

Characters in the game. I don't think the whole game is, but sexist behaviour towards main character who then punches heck out the offender is so used in various medias. I think it's something that devs think women like seeing, kind of feminist wet dream, being able to punch sexist people in the face thus power fantasy, but not really my power fantasy. I'd rather see female character being appreciated like it's normality than her having to defend her gender to sexist jerks.

 

Okay, I get your point there regarding overuse, but did Shepard really get to do that? I mean, she might've called one guy a pig, and he responded with the equivalent of a snide, "Duh," and then she might've made a showy badass boast about her gun's size to that Batarian on Omega, to which his response was singularly unimpressed. Neither of those situations allowed her to physically or even verbally trounce the offender in question, it was treated as intrinsic to the environment or the character we were being introduced. 

 

I don't see the culmination of a power fantasy, I see sexism as a method of characterization. I'd even suggest that it's a pretty valid form of characterization. 

[BabyPuncher]

I don't mind character noticing gender of my character, I don't like them disminishing my characters gender and then scene ending up my character beating them up either verbally or physically. Condrad is probably attracted to fem!Shep and I find it fine.

 

Well, it's not just noticing gender. To my knowledge, a male Shepard only gets called attractive once in the series, when Tali refers to him as 'dashing.' While characters call female Shepard beautiful a whole lot more often. A discrepancy I approve of, for the record.

[Lady Artifice]

DA 2/I's female walk and run animations bug me because I think they're a poor representation of feminine movement. That said I don't like the male animations either and wouldn't wand those for female characters. Really I just don't like DA's animations. 

 

I liked the toe trace thing, but it's effectively a character quirk so I think it's something of a design issue for everyone to be forced to have it even if I like it for my characters. Of course the flip problem there is that a character without any quirks is boring so, you know, RPG conundrums.

 

Yeah. Sometimes, when I start feeling annoyed about a choice the Devs make, it's good to remind myself that it can't be easy to balance competing interesting. For a lot of choices, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. 

[Panda]

Well, it's not just noticing gender. To my knowledge, a male Shepard only gets called attractive once in the series, when Tali refers to him as 'dashing.' While characters call female Shepard beautiful a whole lot more often. A discrepancy I approve of, for the record.

 

I haven't noticed that outside of romances.

[Panda]

Okay, I get your point there regarding overuse, but did Shepard really get to do that? I mean, she might've called one guy a pig, and he responded with the equivalent of a snide, "Duh," and then she might've made a showy badass boast about her gun's size to that Batarian on Omega, to which his response was singularly unimpressed. Neither of those situations allowed her to physically or even verbally trounce the offender in question, it was treated as intrinsic to the environment or the character we were being introduced. 

 

I don't see the culmination of a power fantasy, I see sexism as a method of characterization. I'd even suggest that it's a pretty valid form of characterization. 

 

She did threaten Harkin, but you are right that Shep couldn't completely kick anyone's ass despite using renegade interuption. Idk if that's better though, she was still being diminished as woman in the game. And I didn't enjoy it, at all.

[Lady Artifice]

She did threaten Harkin, but you are right that Shep couldn't completely kick anyone's ass despite using renegade interuption. Idk if that's better though, she was still being diminished as woman in the game. And I didn't enjoy it, at all.

 

Fair enough. I'll just say that I think the Devs are justified in writing those kind of characters and situations. Prejudice is a reality of human--or in the case of ME--sentient nature. Ignoring it doesn't necessarily erase it, and depicting it doesn't equate to supporting it. 

[BabyPuncher]

I haven't noticed that outside of romances.

 

Mmm. Men and women really are quite different. There are so many tiny little patterns they follow that set them apart. They speak differently. They move differently. They position themselves differently. And advocates of supposed 'equality' are right about one thing - the patterns are so ingrained that rarely do we even notice them unless we pay close attention.

 

Perhaps you can see why I carry little but contempt towards people who insist that any discrepancy between genders is a problem that needs to be stamped out. Even if such a thing wasn't a fool's errand, it's demanding that people toss aside a very large part of their life, their identity, their brain. These behaviors are part of how we act and move and communicate.

[Panda]

Fair enough. I'll just say that I think the Devs are justified in writing those kind of characters and situations. Prejudice is a reality of human--or in the case of ME--sentient nature. Ignoring it doesn't necessarily erase it, and depicting it doesn't equate to supporting it. 

 

Creating world and characters they can also create something that makes players uncomfortable. I was annoyed about these scenes in ME, but since there was just couple short games I let it pass and still consider ME games my fav games. However there is limit how much I'll take this annoyance of sexism in the game and I left Witcher 1 unfinished, because of this reason.

 

It's possible that ME tried to create bit sexist world, but balance it out with bit of power fantasy, your main character can fight back people being sexist towards her. Or then just give this feminist power fantasy, but well actually first option sounds more plausible: wanting to add sexist elements and then balancing it out. I don't really think brought anything to the game nor these character, especially when this character-building was missing when person played male Shepard.. and it shows that these things were add especially for fem Shep and players who play fem Sheps. Great.

[Panda]

Mmm. Men and women really are quite different. There are so many tiny little patterns they follow that set them apart. They speak differently. They move differently. They position themselves differently. And advocates of supposed 'equality' are right about one thing - the patterns are so ingrained that rarely do we even notice them unless we pay close attention.

 

Perhaps you can see why I carry little but contempt towards people who insist that any discrepancy between genders is a problem that needs to be stamped out. Even if such a thing wasn't a fool's errand, it's demanding that people toss aside a very large part of their life, their identity, their brain. These behaviors are part of how we act and move and communicate.

 

Actually I do not agree, since I don't agree differences between genders being as big as differences of individuals for example. Lot of the differences visible are due to social conditioning as well though some biological things like noticeable voice change (not sure if right term) that teenage boys have of course remain.

[BabyPuncher]

...I never said they weren't as big? Big differences between the genders doesn't mean there aren't bigger differences between individuals. There are bigger differences between individuals.  Where are you getting this?

 

Is this your idea of what the world is? A big mean nasty 'conditioning' factory that turns innocent loving people into prejudiced hateful bigots? Do you hate 'society'? 'Society,' the source of all meanness and injustice in the world?

 

You're not going to get very far with that.

[Former_Fiend]

Creating world and characters they can also create something that makes players uncomfortable. I was annoyed about these scenes in ME, but since there was just couple short games I let it pass and still consider ME games my fav games. However there is limit how much I'll take this annoyance of sexism in the game and I left Witcher 1 unfinished, because of this reason.

 

It's possible that ME tried to create bit sexist world, but balance it out with bit of power fantasy, your main character can fight back people being sexist towards her. Or then just give this feminist power fantasy, but well actually first option sounds more plausible: wanting to add sexist elements and then balancing it out. I don't really think brought anything to the game nor these character, especially when this character-building was missing when person played male Shepard.. and it shows that these things were add especially for fem Shep and players who play fem Sheps. Great.

 

The trick there is that everyone has different comfort zones. Can't be afraid to pull punches because it might offend someone, because everything is going to offend someone.

[Panda]

The trick there is that everyone has different comfort zones. Can't be afraid to pull punches because it might offend someone, because everything is going to offend someone.

 

Seeing how you saw these things only with female character.. more like they were added for female PC does suggest that they weren't things needed in the game. I guess there is different things people want and don't want to see in the games and how much they can take content they get annoyed over, but I really question necessary of those scenes in the game.

 

EDIT: And also why some of players thought they were nice add for female PC.

[KaiserShep]

Oh, you would've had a field day with the Warlord in UNC: The Negotiation. This mission almost seem tailor-made for renegade FemShep, 'cause that guy really tests your patience. 

 

[Mdizzletr0n]

As a person who grew up in a military community (and hated everything about it. Lol), it's ridiculous to say that a female soldier can't be feminine. Plenty of them are extremely so but that doesn't mean they still aren't good at what they do when necessary (or deck a well deserving person in the face for doing or saying something that don't like). On the other side of the coin, not every male soldier is all Sgt. Rambo Testosterone either.

If any thing I'd like a middle ground. I did find FemShep to be more on the "masculine" side in some ways, just to turn around and run like the daintiest flower in the field.

In terms of BW game history, I found Leliana (more Leliana's song and definitely as Spymaster) and Cassandra from the DA series to be a good balance. Even Aveline was more balanced than FemShep. I think Samara was up there as well (and maybe Morinth had they done more with her). At the same time, I realize that those (sans Morinth) are fully created characters in comparison to the partially, but mostly created, Shepard.

[countofhell]

OFF  Bayonetta, she is a goddess, a true woman.

 

 

 

ON

 

Anyway these womans feel like more feminine to me.