167 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

I don't understand why anyone thinks a controller is an adequate control device.  Even console gamers should be demanding KBM support.

Gopher has mentioned that KB&M apparently dominates in m/p settings, though the Tech is beyond me. He plays with mouse and tactical keyboard, and has said he does not see how most folks play with WASD set-ups; he uses the Arrow keys if forced to a normal keyboard.

I cannot use a controller with any kind of real control, so it is KB&M by default for my games anyway. But my visiting brother prefers a controller; wonder if he knows about NVidia Shield and like set-ups.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

None of these issues can be lain at the feet of consoles.  Character builds are just as dumbed down on consoles as they are on PCs.  The idea of the eight button limit being because of consoles is absolutely absurd because DA:O AND DA:2 BOTH HAD ACCESS TO ALL ABILITIES ALL THE FREAKING TIME!!!!!!

 

How many times does that need to be said?  Also blaming the lack of ability to allocate attribute points on consoles is just as ridiculous because we could allocate them in the console versions of the previous games.  

 

Bad decisions are bad decisions.  They could have put time, money, and effort into developing better controls and UIs for the PC version.  They have even had plenty of time to patch such things into the game on PC.  They simply haven't.  And that's not because of consoles, it's laziness and/or not wanting to spend time and resources into making those developments.  

 

For crying out loud not even Totalbiscuit blames consoles for bad PC ports and he is one of the staunchest members of the whole PC master race silliness.  He puts the blame where it belongs, on the developers.

 

Sadly it will need to be repeated until people learn to read a thread before posting. Don't hold your breath. I already explained all that one page back.

 

I'm with the devs on saying no, it''s not 'laziness' either. It's bad design decisions, or cost saving or whatever, but not laziness.

 

That all said, you seem to be taking this 'blame consoles' attitude too personally. People aren't blaming console players, at least I hope not. They are, or should be, blaming the industry for pushing consoles when many people have a perfectly good PC they could play the same games on. You can even use a controller for many games, if that's your preferred device. When you think about it, *puts on tin foil hat* The console makers, including M$, prefer you to buy a console rather than use a PC that you probably already own anyway. that's, what $400-$500 in their pocket that wouldn't be there otherwise if everyone played on PC. It certainly isn't in M$ or Sony's best interest for game companies to make games work well on mouse and keyboard. *removes tin foil hat*

 

Do I really believe the industry is telling Bioware/EA not to spend any time on KB&M development? Nah, probably not, but it makes me wonder sometimes when you see EA offering XBOX exclusives all the time.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Gopher has mentioned that KB&M apparently dominates in m/p settings, though the Tech is beyond me. He plays with mouse and tactical keyboard, and has said he does not see how most folks play with WASD set-ups; he uses the Arrow keys if forced to a normal keyboard.

I cannot use a controller with any kind of real control, so it is KB&M by default for my games anyway. But my visiting brother prefers a controller; wonder if he knows about NVidia Shield and like set-ups.

 

I bought a cheap controller, tried DAI and Skyrim. *shudder* Never again.

[ApostleinTriumph]

I bought a cheap controller, tried DAI and Skyrim. *shudder* Never again.

 

Witcher 3 was one of the games I felt really suited for controller play. I played it with a controller it actually felt good. I don't play that many games with a controller on PC but some of them (Batman games, Assassin's Creed, Witcher 2/3) go well with controller.

 

I wouldn't play DAI with it though, it feels inferior.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Witcher 3 was one of the games I felt really suited for controller play. I played it with a controller it actually felt good. I don't play that many games with a controller on PC but some of them (Batman games, Assassin's Creed, Witcher 2/3) go well with controller.

 

I wouldn't play DAI with it though, it feels inferior.

 

For me it's not that it felt inferior.. I just can't use them. I walk into walls, swing at air in a  fight most of the times. It just isn't worth my time to get better at it.

[Sunnie]

The biggest problem with controllers, for me, is they lack pinpoint accuracy in control.

One of the Usability tests I ran a few years back was pitting 2 teams in one of the multiplayer shooters against each other, one team using KBM, the other 360 controllers. The results were more one sided than even I expected. I ran 20 test sessions (10 sessions and then teams switched control types and went 10 more) and in all of them the KBM teams won by 90% or more higher scores. That kind of data is very telling.

 

And my point?

 

The point is, that is one of the largest reasons why you will never see native KBM support on console games, as KBM gives those players a huge advantage over those using a controller.

Obviously, this kind of data is not that useful for a single player game, but standardization in the industry is key if you want to sell games on any given platform, and controllers are the standard for consoles.

[Ulithium_Dragon]

 

The UI and the number of hotkeys are entirely separate issues. The fact that both DAO and DA2 were on console, with the ability to use any and all of your abilities at any time is enough of a point to refute your claim of consoles being the cause of a diminished number of ability slots.

 

Same thing with character builds. Removing the ability to set attribute points at will is also a design choice that has nothing to do with consoles, and neither is the lack of tactics. Both were very present and fully functional in the 360/PS3 versions of DAO and DA2.

 

Your only point that has any sort of validity is the UI, Menus seem to be designed to be moved around in with a gamepad, and even with one they're sometimes still a pain to navigate.

 

 

Yeah sorry, I wrote that very late at night and failed to contextually separate my rant about the PC port from my other complaints about the game. For the record, I do not blame "consoles" for character builds being automated - it's just the direction the gaming industry has been headed down for over a decade at this point.

 

They try so hard to make games appeal to "everyone" that this means they need to be watered down quite a bit to reach the maximum number of audiences/target demographics (and sadly, simplicity of design is more palatable to a lot of their target demographics, thus increasing their sales by trying to please as many groups as possible)...

 

The biggest problem with controllers, for me, is they lack pinpoint accuracy in control.

 

Yes, this. The only part of the "control" that gamepads excel at is pressure toggles (i.e., move the analog stick just a bit and you will walk/sneak rather than run). There are easy ways to get around this for PC's, of course, like a toggle key, or holding down a modifier key, but the KBM port of DA:I has neither.

 

The PC movement being jerky as fk was what drove me to try a gamepad in the first place... Not like the gamepad is too much better at this, though - it's hyper sensitive, and there doesn't seem to be a way to scale it at all.

 

But that's another point - ignoring all the beefed up graphical settings menus, it seems to me that there's a lot less control over what you can toggle/edit/change/etc. in the options menu this time around... I actually played DA:2 on both the Xbox and the PC, but I can't recall if they let you remap gamepad keys at all.

 

I actually switched to the PC version because over 80 hours in, I hadn't quite finished the game yet, but I decided I wanted a break to check out the warrior class. The stupid game DID NOT tell me that it supported only *ONE* active save file at a time, and wiped my 80+ hour character without asking me first. Since everyone in my house had been asking me to stop hogging the TV anyways, I got the PC version instead (which did support simultaneous playthroughs - that was the first thing I checked lol).

 

---

On an unrelated note, anyone else bugged that you're limited to only 250 save files? This feature CERTAINLY has the console fingerprints all over it, because on a console, the games allocate their space ahead of time and register it with the system. My PC has enough space to support 10,000+ DA:I saves, but I'm forced to either delete a lot of them, or manually back them up from outside of the game.

 

And you will be saving a lot, what with there being not quick save option when playing with a gamepad... Heaven forbid we allow TWO active control schemes at once! That's crazy talk! >_<

 

Whenever a game shocks me that it allows both KBM and gamepad simultaneously, my first thought is a joyful "WOW!" followed by a sobering "Why am I pleased to see a feature that seems so obviously intuitive being left out of almost every "PC Port""...

[Maeshone]

Yeah sorry, I wrote that very late at night and failed to contextually separate my rant about the PC port from my other complaints about the game. For the record, I do not blame "consoles" for character builds being automated - it's just the direction the gaming industry has been headed down for over a decade at this point.

 

They try so hard to make games appeal to "everyone" that this means they need to be watered down quite a bit to reach the maximum number of audiences/target demographics (and sadly, simplicity of design is more palatable to a lot of their target demographics, thus increasing their sales by trying to please as many groups as possible)...

This is a fair point, and one I'm sad to see as well. Now, don't get me wrong, I love a simple game as much as the next guy, there's a reason Destiny is still my go to multiplayer shooter despite the lack of end game content, and it's not because I love the convoluted and underexplained story (though what lore exists in the grimoire cards is actually pretty cool). But sometimes I just want to cuddle up with a blanket, some tea and fresh scones and really dig into a game in a way that you can't get in most major titles.

 

 

Yes, this. The only part of the "control" that gamepads excel at is pressure toggles (i.e., move the analog stick just a bit and you will walk/sneak rather than run). There are easy ways to get around this for PC's, of course, like a toggle key, or holding down a modifier key, but the KBM port of DA:I has neither.

 

The PC movement being jerky as fk was what drove me to try a gamepad in the first place... Not like the gamepad is too much better at this, though - it's hyper sensitive, and there doesn't seem to be a way to scale it at all.

I think the main reason that I prefer gamepads over KB/M is because the game that really got me into gaming was The Sands of Time, and honestly I can't imagine that game playing better with KB/M than with a gamepad. To be fair though, I never really tried it on PC, but the camera was sort of uncooperative in that game, so in order to nail some of the jumps you really needed to be able to jump at a very specific angle, which I can imagine being hard on a keyboard. I do play a bit on PC however, but not much. Mostly because I have a **** laptop. But it's enough to run Half-Life 2. 11 years later and that's still one of my favourite games 

 

 

---

On an unrelated note, anyone else bugged that you're limited to only 250 save files? This feature CERTAINLY has the console fingerprints all over it, because on a console, the games allocate their space ahead of time and register it with the system. My PC has enough space to support 10,000+ DA:I saves, but I'm forced to either delete a lot of them, or manually back them up from outside of the game.

**** yeah, that annoys me so much. I upgraded the HDD of my PS4 for a reason, I'd like to be able to use what free space I have in whatever manner I like, thank you very much 

[Ulithium_Dragon]

This is a fair point, and one I'm sad to see as well. Now, don't get me wrong, I love a simple game as much as the next guy, there's a reason Destiny is still my go to multiplayer shooter despite the lack of end game content, and it's not because I love the convoluted and underexplained story (though what lore exists in the grimoire cards is actually pretty cool). But sometimes I just want to cuddle up with a blanket, some tea and fresh scones and really dig into a game in a way that you can't get in most major titles.

 

 

I think the main reason that I prefer gamepads over KB/M is because the game that really got me into gaming was The Sands of Time, and honestly I can't imagine that game playing better with KB/M than with a gamepad. To be fair though, I never really tried it on PC, but the camera was sort of uncooperative in that game, so in order to nail some of the jumps you really needed to be able to jump at a very specific angle, which I can imagine being hard on a keyboard. I do play a bit on PC however, but not much. Mostly because I have a **** laptop. But it's enough to run Half-Life 2. 11 years later and that's still one of my favourite games 

 

 

**** yeah, that annoys me so much. I upgraded the HDD of my PS4 for a reason, I'd like to be able to use what free space I have in whatever manner I like, thank you very much 

 

Gamepad is fine here because you don't "need" pinpoint targeting, everything is auto-aim (something I DESPISE). Now if I had to try and play DA:I like a shooter, i.e. line up and aim my spells or arrows at the enemy manually (which is quite fun), then gamepads suck the big one. For example, I tried Skyrim for a few minutes with the gamepad, before shuddering with disgust at how AWFUL it felt to try and shoot a bow or cast a projectile spell and turning it off.

 

Pinpoint controls are where KBM dominates - this is why a RTS game on a console just does NOT work.

 

But the lack of buttons on gamepads really grates on you, cuz they have to make all kinds of sacrifices to accommodate more functions. For example, whoever decided that activate and jump needed to be on the same button was a fking moron who clearly never tried to play the game that way...

 

---

You know, now that I think about it, it was the Xbox version of DA:2 forcing me to try to PC version that was the final straw that turned me off console gaming. My life is much richer for it, too - I have learned A LOT about how video games are made/work, learned to code, animate, and create 3D models/meshes for use in mods, etc. etc. etc.

So I guess I should be saying "Thank YOU DA:2 for murdering my 80+ hour game without warning! <3" XD

[Wolven_Soul]

Sadly it will need to be repeated until people learn to read a thread before posting. Don't hold your breath. I already explained all that one page back.

 

I'm with the devs on saying no, it''s not 'laziness' either. It's bad design decisions, or cost saving or whatever, but not laziness.

 

That all said, you seem to be taking this 'blame consoles' attitude too personally. People aren't blaming console players, at least I hope not. They are, or should be, blaming the industry for pushing consoles when many people have a perfectly good PC they could play the same games on. You can even use a controller for many games, if that's your preferred device. When you think about it, *puts on tin foil hat* The console makers, including M$, prefer you to buy a console rather than use a PC that you probably already own anyway. that's, what $400-$500 in their pocket that wouldn't be there otherwise if everyone played on PC. It certainly isn't in M$ or Sony's best interest for game companies to make games work well on mouse and keyboard. *removes tin foil hat*

 

Do I really believe the industry is telling Bioware/EA not to spend any time on KB&M development? Nah, probably not, but it makes me wonder sometimes when you see EA offering XBOX exclusives all the time.

 

It's not that I am taking it personally, it's just that I am so freaking tired of hearing this freaking crap.  Especially when all it takes is a tiny little bit of thought to realize how ridiculous blaming these things on consoles are.  I don't much care for the sensation of battering my skull against a brick wall but that's what it feels like I am doing when trying to explain these simple things to these people.

  

I play on consoles for several reasons.  One, it's what I have almost always played video games on.  It's what feels comfortable to me.  Two, I can't afford a really good gaming PC and I certainly would have trouble maintaining the almost yearly upgrades that would be needed to keep it that good.  Three, I honestly don't want to have to fiddle around with and tweak all the options and what not to get any game working exactly as I want it to.  And I certainly don't want to have to download driver updates all the time either.  I don't want to mess with all that.  I just want to get my game, put it in, and start playing.  That's it.

[Ulithium_Dragon]

It's not that I am taking it personally, it's just that I am so freaking tired of hearing this freaking crap.  Especially when all it takes is a tiny little bit of thought to realize how ridiculous blaming these things on consoles are.  I don't much care for the sensation of battering my skull against a brick wall but that's what it feels like I am doing when trying to explain these simple things to these people.

  

I play on consoles for several reasons.  One, it's what I have almost always played video games on.  It's what feels comfortable to me.  Two, I can't afford a really good gaming PC and I certainly would have trouble maintaining the almost yearly upgrades that would be needed to keep it that good.  Three, I honestly don't want to have to fiddle around with and tweak all the options and what not to get any game working exactly as I want it to.  And I certainly don't want to have to download driver updates all the time either.  I don't want to mess with all that.  I just want to get my game, put it in, and start playing.  That's it.  I like things simple.  

 

It was never my intention to throw more wood onto the flame war fire - I made a boo-boo, as I said above:

 

"Yeah sorry, I wrote that very late at night and failed to contextually separate my rant about the PC port from my other complaints about the game. For the record, I do not blame "consoles" for character builds being automated - it's just the direction the gaming industry has been headed down for over a decade at this point.

 

They try so hard to make games appeal to "everyone" that this means they need to be watered down quite a bit to reach the maximum number of audiences/target demographics (and sadly, simplicity of design is more palatable to a lot of their target demographics, thus increasing their sales by trying to please as many groups as possible)..."

[Elhanan]

FWIW, if this Techless One can maintain a rig (eg; updating drivers when alerted), almost anyone should be capable. That does not happen often. Overall, the expense seems to be less than updating consoles. While I would like to have top end GPU's, that is a battle I can ill afford to wage. Still, my GTX 670 is doing very well with DAI.

But my brother also seems more comfortable with a controller, so use what works.

[Ulithium_Dragon]

FWIW, if this Techless One can maintain a rig (eg; updating drivers when alerted), almost anyone should be capable. That does not happen often. Overall, the expense seems to be less than updating consoles. While I would like to have top end GPU's, that is a battle I can ill afford to wage. Still, my GTX 670 is doing very well with DAI.

But my brother also seems more comfortable with a controller, so use what works.

 

That's another argument lol. The benefit of consoles used to be that you could be assured that they would be able to run the games made for them at full capacity. That sh*t hasn't been true since the Gamecube/PS2/Xbox (only sort of there) era - since demands for shiny new gwaphics cannot keep up with the costs to maintain them, corners get inevitably cut, and suddenly something that was always "a sure thing" is no longer so...

[Sylvius the Mad]

I cannot use a controller with any kind of real control, so it is KB&M by default for my games anyway. But my visiting brother prefers a controller; wonder if he knows about NVidia Shield and like set-ups.

The ergonomics of controllers trouble me greatly.

[ApostleinTriumph]

Consoles will always be inferior to PCs. Compared to a PC consoles have worse graphics and absolutely terrible controls except few games where it does not matter. The only upside is that you don't have to upgrade it, which naturally comes with the downside that PCs will always surpass consoles in processing/graphical power.

 

That being said, it is not hard to see why the abilities in DAI are limited to 8. 4x2=8 and consoles have 4 ability buttons. So when they ported the game to PC, they stuck with the magic number 8 instead of giving us a bar we could customize like in Origins which was made 6+ years ago!

 

Because console kiddies have easy access to their mom's credit card, they are the target demographic and easier to sell stuff to. Just show off some flashy action and good graphics and they will buy it. This means that nowadays, games are being developed to cater to this demographic, who are after mindless and quick action with no regard for other important details of the game, like controls or UI. This ruins the game for rest of us PC players since the consoles are limited in many ways and you feel like you are playing a downgraded version of what you could have instead gotten. Unless devs actually spend time to make the game also feel proper and right in a PC setting, the game will feel like a console port.

[Ulithium_Dragon]

Consoles will always be inferior to PCs. Compared to a PC consoles have worse graphics and absolutely terrible controls except few games where it does not matter. The only upside is that you don't have to upgrade it, which naturally comes with the downside that PCs will always surpass consoles in processing/graphical power.

 

That being said, it is not hard to see why the abilities in DAI are limited to 8. 4x2=8 and consoles have 4 ability buttons. So when they ported the game to PC, they stuck with the magic number 8 instead of giving us a bar we could customize like in Origins which was made 6+ years ago!

 

Because console kiddies have easy access to their mom's credit card, they are the target demographic and easier to sell stuff to. Just show off some flashy action and good graphics and they will buy it. This means that nowadays, games are being developed to cater to this demographic, who are after mindless and quick action with no regard for other important details of the game, like controls or UI. This ruins the game for rest of us PC players since the consoles are limited in many ways and you feel like you are playing a downgraded version of what you could have instead gotten. Unless devs actually spend time to make the game also feel proper and right in a PC setting, the game will feel like a console port.

 

Yeah, I don't see how anyone can defend the argument that "PC version having less buttons is not because of consoles", because there is no other plausible explanation! Even with modifier buttons, the best the ancient gamepad can do is 8 buttons - there is no legitimate reason why the PC version needs to adhere to this! We have like, over 100 keys ffs! Y_Y

 

I mean, hell if you used KEYBOARD modifier combinations, the amount of hotkeys is almost without limit! Exponential!

 

EDIT: Even more than that, "PC Ports" are ACTUALLY ported to PC. They are MADE on computers to be OPTIMIZED for consoles, so they must be PORTED to PC's to be OPTIMIZED for them! Anyone else seeing the absurd logic chain here? =.=

Modifié par Ulithium_Dragon, 07 septembre 2015 - 04:08 .

[Morroian]

Yeah, I don't see how anyone can defend the argument that "PC version having less buttons is not because of consoles", because there is no other plausible explanation! Even with modifier buttons, the best the ancient gamepad can do is 8 buttons - there is no legitimate reason why the PC version needs to adhere to this! We have like, over 100 keys ffs! Y_Y

 

I mean, hell if you used KEYBOARD modifier combinations, the amount of hotkeys is almost without limit! Exponential!

 

Well yeah IMO they just didn't want to devote resources into building a completely different interface for PC SP.

[ApostleinTriumph]

Well yeah IMO they just didn't want to devote resources into building a completely different interface for PC SP.

 

But no, we have seperate buttons for the stupid highlight button, disengage and other things, which would have been totally and absolutely fine to be left to keyboard commands with no need for on screen buttons. With those gone there would be more than enough space to design a customizable bar.

[Ulithium_Dragon]

Well yeah IMO they just didn't want to devote resources into building a completely different interface for PC SP.

 

With that said, DA:O had a COMPLETELY custom PC UI, and DA:2 at least took advantage of some of the perks of playing on PC (i.e. a FULL spell and abilities bar, and FULL hotkey remapping support). DA:I is simply showing the continuation of the trend: the game is published by EA, and EA only cares about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ (they were still voted "worst company in America" again last year, and have held that sh*t-staighned throne for quite a few years now).

 

The simple fact is that misinformation about PC gaming being "so expensive!" (which was untrue before, and LAUGHABLY untrue now, with their consoles prices shooting up with each new "generation") means that most of their sales come from consoles. SInce they are aware of this, they will no longer put any extra effort into fully utilizing a PC port's capabilities (a low priority profit margin), and focus their game building on where their $$$ IV is feeding them from - the consoles.

 

Also, EA was the ONLY major game company to not post losses last year. Why? Because their corner cutting tactics are actually working - they release half-baked games by cutting corners and thus by cutting design costs...

 

I mean, cmon guys, we've known for years now that AAA gaming's new slogan is:

 

"Consoles first, then maybe PC later if there's time, idk, no promises, don't hold your breath".

 

Nothing made this more apparent than Microsoft's "exclusivity clause" with Bethesda so that the X-ded gets the DLC's first. They paid the devs money essentially to start a big boys club that you are not invited to. And Bethesda's attitude wasn't even limited to its PC customers. The PS3 was left buggy, broken, and DLC-less until they had finished with Skyrim and made their "Legendary Edition", that the PS3 owners could go buy for all the DLC's they were supposed to already have been able to get, plus the bugs left in the game because, you guessed it - cost cutting measures, pushing a buggy product out untested because they didn't care and it wouldn't hurt their sales.

 

I could build a gaming PC equivalent or even better than a console's capabilities for the cost of this gen's console, and it would have more uses than just playing games! YOu could even learn to make your OWN games on it (as I have done)!.

This would of course require assembling the computer yourself from parts you bargain hunted for, so the ONLY pull consoles still have over PC is "comes rearin' to go", which is also starting to ring untrue. With the absurd "fwocwus onz hazing tehz pweeeteest gwafficz en awllz dez lwandz", cost cutting on the expensive parts needed to keep up with the demands for "pertier gwaffics", means that a console no longer had a guarantee of technical stability for the games made for it, and this is true of all consoles in the current generation.

 

Of course, this absurd focus on graphics has another side effect: it's f*cking expensive and time consuming! So even more corners get cut to have the games out as quickly as possible (while the current gen console is still "relevant"), and they end up at launch with a library consisting of maybe 5-10 games (at best).

 

This is the point where PC laughs in their face, as there is pretty much 100% "backwards compatibility" on PC. I mean, just the other day I decided I wanted to play Warcraft II again, a game that dates back to the early 90's. Now try and name one console manufacturer that can play it's games from the 90's? Sony? Not since the PS2. Microsoft? Didn't exist in the console race, cuz they were focusing on *cough* PC GAMING (which is just too damn funny). Nintendo? They sure held out the longest at least for their handhelds, but you can't play Gameboy Pocket games on any system past the Gameboy Advanced SP, and their consoles were the worst of the three (since they were not discs but cartriges, but this was not possible to port, so it's not really fair to them). But PC? Still playing all my childhood nostalgia, and even a whole bunch of the games for their consoles as well (cuz emulators rule)

 

*In case someone decides that I need to be banhammered for admitting to playing ROM's, I would like to point out that I only use ROMs for games that I own or have previously owned. I have very little respect for EA/Bioware at this point, though, so if you decide to ban me I will just *shrug* and go elsewhere.

[Elhanan]

Consoles will always be inferior to PCs. Compared to a PC consoles have worse graphics and absolutely terrible controls except few games where it does not matter. The only upside is that you don't have to upgrade it, which naturally comes with the downside that PCs will always surpass consoles in processing/graphical power.
 
That being said, it is not hard to see why the abilities in DAI are limited to 8. 4x2=8 and consoles have 4 ability buttons. So when they ported the game to PC, they stuck with the magic number 8 instead of giving us a bar we could customize like in Origins which was made 6+ years ago!
 
Because console kiddies have easy access to their mom's credit card, they are the target demographic and easier to sell stuff to. Just show off some flashy action and good graphics and they will buy it. This means that nowadays, games are being developed to cater to this demographic, who are after mindless and quick action with no regard for other important details of the game, like controls or UI. This ruins the game for rest of us PC players since the consoles are limited in many ways and you feel like you are playing a downgraded version of what you could have instead gotten. Unless devs actually spend time to make the game also feel proper and right in a PC setting, the game will feel like a console port.

If DAI was appealing to that crowd, it would have made a Teen rated game; not Mature. That logic seem fallible.

[Ulithium_Dragon]

If DAI was appealing to that crowd, it would have made a Teen rated game; not Mature. That logic seem fallible.

 

Cmon dude - this kind of super gory combat is aimed at appealing to the teen demographic. Just because the kids can't go buy a physical copy of the game themselves, doesn't mean that they can't use mommy's credit card information that was saved in the Xbone to buy the game, or just have their parents buy them a copy. This has been a common practice since DOOM in the 90's lol. Ratings in no way not stop age groups deemed "unfit to play the game" from getting ahold of the game, and the console manufacturers know it.

 

Case in point: I made the mistake of turning on voice chat the one time a friend finally convinced me to try COD once, and everyone on there was some preteen boy cussing everyone out lol. What other demographic likes pretty explosions and tons of gore than middle school aged boys? The ratings don't actually deter the companies from doing certain things (unlike the film industry), because in most cases you will be INCREASING your sales by included the content that the largest target demographic loves, and the rating won't stop them from getting ahold of the games. It's not like its illegal to play a game the ESRB has said you're too young for, just like it's not illegal to see a movie that the MPAA says their too young for. Movie theaters adhere to their rules because they hold the purse strings per say, but it's not like a cop is gonna be knocking down your door if you are letting your 4 year old watch Saw IV lol. It's a "company policy", NOT a law.

 

Hell, they can still buy physical copies themselves off the internet, because 3rd party distributors like Amazon couldn't give a rats left testicle about the arbitrary rating the *bleep* "ESRB" assigned it, and they are not bound to the same company bylaws and contracts that game retailers are.

Modifié par BioWareMod08, 07 septembre 2015 - 10:44 .

[Elhanan]

DAI is not super gory. In fact, some complain because it is fantasy based violence; not bloody like DAO or other games. It would seem to be a better plan to actually make a game that would sell to as many in that demographic as possible; not one designed for an adult crowd.

I have no problem with Bioware seeking a wider market with consoles, though I would love to get a PC exclusive now and again. My issue is that I do not want the PC version to be balanced based on other platforms, especially if they fail to interact.

[Maeshone]

Consoles will always be inferior to PCs. Compared to a PC consoles have worse graphics and absolutely terrible controls except few games where it does not matter. The only upside is that you don't have to upgrade it, which naturally comes with the downside that PCs will always surpass consoles in processing/graphical power.

All of this is true, and objectively so. You were doing so well.

 

That being said, it is not hard to see why the abilities in DAI are limited to 8. 4x2=8 and consoles have 4 ability buttons. So when they ported the game to PC, they stuck with the magic number 8 instead of giving us a bar we could customize like in Origins which was made 6+ years ago!

But then ya screwed it up. Since both DAO and DA2 had access to all abilities at all times on console, then the layout of a console controller/gamepad is not the reason that DAI only has 8 active abilities. Design decisions or target demographics, which you touch upon later, seem like more likely reasons, but not hardware limitations.

 

Because console kiddies have easy access to their mom's credit card, they are the target demographic and easier to sell stuff to. Just show off some flashy action and good graphics and they will buy it. This means that nowadays, games are being developed to cater to this demographic, who are after mindless and quick action with no regard for other important details of the game, like controls or UI. This ruins the game for rest of us PC players since the consoles are limited in many ways and you feel like you are playing a downgraded version of what you could have instead gotten. Unless devs actually spend time to make the game also feel proper and right in a PC setting, the game will feel like a console port.

I really hate the term "console kiddie". I understand where it comes from, but with the average age of gamers currently being in their 30s, isn't it more likely that people who game on consoles do so because of personal reasons rather than "it's what my parents got me"? Take me. I mainly game on Playstation these days. Why? Because that's where I can get games like Bloodborne, Uncharted, The Last of Us and Persona. If I could afford an XOne, I would get one because of Gears of War, Halo, and other exclusive titles. Same with PC. Unfortunately, being a student, I have to choose how to spend my entertainment budget, and I rated the PS exlusives higher than the exclusives of other platforms.

 

Also "consoles=mindless and quick action, PC = not" lol. You weren't around for Unreal Tournament I take it?

[NRieh]

 

I don't understand why anyone thinks a controller is an adequate control device.

Because the controller IS an adequate control device. And most people who say otherwise had never played a single game with a gamepad.
With several exceptions like RTS or hardcore cation FPS, may be - those are where right stick can not really compete with mouselook. 

 

By the way, something like 15 years ago people had no idea that mouse can be any useful at all. It took long enough for 'keyboard turner' to become something of an insult. UT99 was the first FPS I had to play with a mouse, and I really hated it, I loved my Doom-style keyboadr crawling, lol. And now I think that it's the best team-based FPS ever. Just for the reference - I'm a PC-gamer since Digger, Shamus and Pop-Corn, moderately disliking the consoles. I had tried the xb360 wired pad something like 1.5 yrs ago, and I'm playing with the gamepad where supported ever since.

 

Note, that I do not think that DAI has a good gamepad UI. It's 'decent' at best. It also has no 'on-fly' switching between the controller types (e.g. bioshocks, Dishonored, Jade Empire and many others follow whichever controller you've touched and instantly change the UI accordingly) And for some totally unexplainable reasons the essential hotkeys (map, quicksave) are missing in PC version (used to be left and right D-pad, they say).

And by no means I'm saying that DAI has a good KBM UI. It got slightly better since I've tried it on release (so I've heard), but it's still bad. 

 

Good or bad is not dependent on a controller type or platform, like at all. E.g.:

- DAO had a good PC UI (different one from consoles, no hotkey limits)

- DA2 was not so horrible (also different from consoles, no hotkey limits)

- ME1\2\3 had solid KBM UIs (all not like their console siblings)

- Witcher 1 wins the prize for the Most Horrible Combat System Ever and One of the Worst UIs - PC-exclusive, Win&Mac only, does not even support the gamepad.

- Bioshock infinite - perfectly playable with KBM, but feels good and smooth on a gamepad too, 'on-fly' switching

- Skyrim....wait, was I talking about UIs? I don't think this game had any, the dev had just forgotten to add it, for either KBM or GP. 

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

 

 

 

 

Yeah sorry, I wrote that very late at night and failed to contextually separate my rant about the PC port from my other complaints about the game. For the record, I do not blame "consoles" for character builds being automated - it's just the direction the gaming industry has been headed down for over a decade at this point.

 

They try so hard to make games appeal to "everyone" that this means they need to be watered down quite a bit to reach the maximum number of audiences/target demographics (and sadly, simplicity of design is more palatable to a lot of their target demographics, thus increasing their sales by trying to please as many groups as possible)...

 

 

Yes, this. The only part of the "control" that gamepads excel at is pressure toggles (i.e., move the analog stick just a bit and you will walk/sneak rather than run). There are easy ways to get around this for PC's, of course, like a toggle key, or holding down a modifier key, but the KBM port of DA:I has neither.

 

The PC movement being jerky as fk was what drove me to try a gamepad in the first place... Not like the gamepad is too much better at this, though - it's hyper sensitive, and there doesn't seem to be a way to scale it at all.

 

But that's another point - ignoring all the beefed up graphical settings menus, it seems to me that there's a lot less control over what you can toggle/edit/change/etc. in the options menu this time around... I actually played DA:2 on both the Xbox and the PC, but I can't recall if they let you remap gamepad keys at all.

 

I actually switched to the PC version because over 80 hours in, I hadn't quite finished the game yet, but I decided I wanted a break to check out the warrior class. The stupid game DID NOT tell me that it supported only *ONE* active save file at a time, and wiped my 80+ hour character without asking me first. Since everyone in my house had been asking me to stop hogging the TV anyways, I got the PC version instead (which did support simultaneous playthroughs - that was the first thing I checked lol).

 

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On an unrelated note, anyone else bugged that you're limited to only 250 save files? This feature CERTAINLY has the console fingerprints all over it, because on a console, the games allocate their space ahead of time and register it with the system. My PC has enough space to support 10,000+ DA:I saves, but I'm forced to either delete a lot of them, or manually back them up from outside of the game.

 

And you will be saving a lot, what with there being not quick save option when playing with a gamepad... Heaven forbid we allow TWO active control schemes at once! That's crazy talk! >_<

 

Whenever a game shocks me that it allows both KBM and gamepad simultaneously, my first thought is a joyful "WOW!" followed by a sobering "Why am I pleased to see a feature that seems so obviously intuitive being left out of almost every "PC Port""...

 

 

Has anyone tried one of these? http://gaming.logite...anced-gameboard

 

I have one, got it as a gift. I am hopeless at using it but my friend loves it. You get the toggle movement, if that's your thing, plus a keypad for various skills, plus you still use your mouse for aiming and such..