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Shared cooldowns in ME:A?


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55 réponses à ce sujet

#26
Nitrocuban

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Yeah, a couple of ... uhm ... Superpowers would be nice.

A biotic one like Flare, a big Inferno fireball, something that slams even boss enemies on the ground ...

Only one per char and each with its own 15s cooldown and a 5s charge up time while standing out of cover or so.



#27
Kakistos_

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I play Adept and I found the shared cooldown in ME2 absolutely crippling. It was PAINFUL to play through. Thankfully I found that the console can be rid of it. Ech..the thought of it makes my skin crawl... The shared cooldown in ME3 was much more bearable. I would prefer that shared cooldowns be a thing of the past but if they must return I pray they are similar to the ME3 model.


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#28
Hrulj

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I play Adept and I found the shared cooldown in ME2 absolutely crippling. It was PAINFUL to play through. Thankfully I found that the console can be rid of it. Ech..the thought of it makes my skin crawl... The shared cooldown in ME3 was much more bearable. I would prefer that shared cooldowns be a thing of the past but if they must return I pray they are similar to the ME3 model.

Thats primarily why I was asking. I was an adept in my first playtrough and in ME:1 it was all about strategy, in ME:2, the cooldowns became extremely problematic, and discouraged powerful ability uses. 


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#29
capn233

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Hmmm.  I would say the ME2 Adept was more about strategy than the ME1 Adept.



#30
Ahglock

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Huh. I didn't find them crippling. A couple a tad too long but I easily launched people into orbit with pull or singularity plus throw in 2. In 3 I exploded people a the time. I felt warp and shockwave had too long of a cool down but not too a crippling level. Time is somewhat relative as you almost never got flanked in 2 so cooldowns rarely effected me at all. I had a shot to hell cooldowns every time I leaned out to throw something that effected me more.

#31
Hrulj

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Huh. I didn't find them crippling. A couple a tad too long but I easily launched people into orbit with pull or singularity plus throw in 2. In 3 I exploded people a the time. I felt warp and shockwave had too long of a cool down but not too a crippling level. Time is somewhat relative as you almost never got flanked in 2 so cooldowns rarely effected me at all. I had a shot to hell cooldowns every time I leaned out to throw something that effected me more.

Ever tried playing the Thanix missile battery part on hardcore or above with an addept?



#32
KainD

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Ever tried playing the Thanix missile battery part on hardcore or above with an addept?

 

Yes. You can play any combination of classes on any difficulty if you know your sh*t. 



#33
Hrulj

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Yes. You can play any combination of classes on any difficulty if you know your sh*t. 

Perhaps. Except its much faster and easier to simply shoot enemies than to use, what amounts to superpowers to do it. 

If superpowers are weaker than everyday weapons, then they arent superpowers/useful



#34
capn233

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Wut



#35
KainD

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Perhaps. Except its much faster and easier to simply shoot enemies than to use, what amounts to superpowers to do it. 

 

In ME3 in general weapons>powers. We've tested this especially thoroughly in MP. We had a guy that was really good at shooting things, played a lot of FPSalways got all the nice headshots fast even on phantoms while they were jumping around and knew when to shoot and when to duck to not be staggered. He cleared everything almost twice as fast as we did with most elaborate power builds. He used all powers not to kill enemies, but to support his shooting style, and he was really strong on an Asari Adept with a Harrier. He used throw just to stagger stuff, stasis to freeze agile enemies and warp to weaken armor and expose bosses. He didn't use the powers to deal damage at all, the damage from his powers was minuscule, but it helped him greatly to gun stuff down.

 

I guess what I'm saying is - biotics can help you shoot things, they are not necessary there to blow everything up and deal damage. 



#36
capn233

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Guns have been important throughout the ME trilogy.  In ME1, biotics were nearly pure CC.  Still needed to shoot things to kill them.

 

In ME3 you need to use powers appropriately and when appropriate as well as being proficient with weapons if you want to play efficiently.

 

There are some problems with balance, but that is largely weapons that are too light for damage meaning you get to use powers more frequently than you should for that amount of weapon damage.



#37
KainD

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There are some problems with balance, but that is largely weapons that are too light for damage meaning you get to use powers more frequently than you should for that amount of weapon damage.

 

Vanguard with a Reegar at 200% is pretty nuts, specially with that incendiary. 



#38
capn233

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Vanguard with a Reegar at 200% is pretty nuts, specially with that incendiary. 

 

Yes, the Reegar is overpowered, and it synergizes extremely well with bugged IA stacking.

 

One thing to consider with respect to SP is that the guns (and actually many powers) were buffed with the last patch to make them the same as in MP, but enemy HP was not buffed.  If you played the game on Insanity at release, the end was a bit more challenging since weapon damage was a lot lower, and there weren't DLC guns.

 

Hopefully MEA strikes the right balance between powers and weapons.  Individual cooldowns is not going to help though.  And making powers so effective you don't need guns isn't either.



#39
KainD

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And making powers so effective you don't need guns isn't either.

 

That would actually be nice but only if I could unequip all guns. Otherwise PC looks like an idiot for holding a gun in their hands but never using it. Something you see some people actually do. 



#40
Hrulj

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In ME3 in general weapons>powers. We've tested this especially thoroughly in MP. We had a guy that was really good at shooting things, played a lot of FPSalways got all the nice headshots fast even on phantoms while they were jumping around and knew when to shoot and when to duck to not be staggered. He cleared everything almost twice as fast as we did with most elaborate power builds. He used all powers not to kill enemies, but to support his shooting style, and he was really strong on an Asari Adept with a Harrier. He used throw just to stagger stuff, stasis to freeze agile enemies and warp to weaken armor and expose bosses. He didn't use the powers to deal damage at all, the damage from his powers was minuscule, but it helped him greatly to gun stuff down.

 

I guess what I'm saying is - biotics can help you shoot things, they are not necessary there to blow everything up and deal damage. 

But that shouldnt be the case. There should be a balance in the game, where guns, biotics and tech are all equaly good, or at least close. If using powers just ammounts to wasting your time, when its quicker and easier to get a good gun and just melt enemies is downright bad. Biotics like Jack destroyed space stations with their biotic mastery, but we get none of that. While I also believe that there should be a support branch of biotics, I think that in the same manner there should be pure biotics that will simply anihilate foes just as well as any gun would, if not better. Maybe give back the amps to us?


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#41
KainD

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But that shouldnt be the case. There should be a balance in the game, where guns, biotics and tech are all equaly good, or at least close. If using powers just ammounts to wasting your time, when its quicker and easier to get a good gun and just melt enemies is downright bad. 

 

It's not exactly the case because using guns very effectively requires intensive mechanical skills on players part. I personally do not posses such skills to make guns more powerful than some of the power combos I am using. I don't land 80% of my bullets as headshots out of a harrier. 

 

 

While I also believe that there should be a support branch of biotics, I think that in the same manner there should be pure biotics that will simply anihilate foes just as well as any gun would, if not better. Maybe give back the amps to us?

 

This is why I proposed charged biotics. 


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#42
Ahglock

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Ever tried playing the Thanix missile battery part on hardcore or above with an addept?


As I only play on insanity I'm going to go with yes. There are a couple of missions where playing an adept adds extra challenge but there are missions that I plowed as an adept. Seems right to me. Should it be a bit shorter. Sure, but not much.

#43
KainD

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As I only play on insanity I'm going to go with yes. There are a couple of missions where playing an adept adds extra challenge but there are missions that I plowed as an adept. Seems right to me. Should it be a bit shorter. Sure, but not much.

 

I think missions shouldn't be harder / easier depending on your class. I think missions should be harder / easier depending on your skilltree choices in any class. 



#44
Dabrikishaw

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I'm fine with both.



#45
Red Panda

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Hmmm.  I would say the ME2 Adept was more about strategy than the ME1 Adept.

I would also say that biotics got nerfed into the ground.



#46
Hrulj

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It's not exactly the case because using guns very effectively requires intensive mechanical skills on players part. I personally do not posses such skills to make guns more powerful than some of the power combos I am using. I don't land 80% of my bullets as headshots out of a harrier. 

 

 

 

This is why I proposed charged biotics. 

I rarely miss with N7 Crusader. And difference between ease of killing an enemy like brute or banshee with such a weapon and throwing warps at them is noticeable. 

Not to mention that most biotic powers cant even be used if enemy has any kind of protection like barriers or armor, unlike in ME1 where it just depended on the weight of the enemy, which should be the case, at least when it comes to armor



#47
Catastrophy

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I hated it in ME2, but they found the sweet spot in ME3. CDs were super long in ME1, I don't know if it would work well in Andromeda. But with larger levels I can imagine it'd work in the SP.

In MP, I really have no idea. I don't think balance is an easy thing.



#48
Sylvius the Mad

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I'm not generally a fan of cooldowns at all, but I have trouble explaining shared cooldowns within the lore.

In ME3, cooldowns could be fairly short, which helped a lot on both counts.

Whichever they do, as long as I can still build a character that uses powers almost exclusively and hardly ever fires a weapon, that would be fine.

#49
Kakistos_

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Yes, the Reegar is overpowered, and it synergizes extremely well with bugged IA stacking.

 

One thing to consider with respect to SP is that the guns (and actually many powers) were buffed with the last patch to make them the same as in MP, but enemy HP was not buffed.  If you played the game on Insanity at release, the end was a bit more challenging since weapon damage was a lot lower, and there weren't DLC guns.

 

Hopefully MEA strikes the right balance between powers and weapons.  Individual cooldowns is not going to help though.  And making powers so effective you don't need guns isn't either.

But isn't that the point of ME being a hybrid of RPG and Shooter? Neither group is going to be 100% happy but that is why ME should have room to allow eich to play as they choose with perks and drawbacks on each side. If a player wants to pour their earned talent points into Tech or Biotic abilities and get to the point where guns are less useful then they should have the option of doing so. That is the issue I had with ME2. It's not that I had to use the gun at all, anyone who looks at this type of game should expect gun use, it's that the shared cool down and nerfing of Powers boxed all players, regardless of their style or what attracted them to the series, into a certain style of playing.



#50
capn233

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I would also say that biotics got nerfed into the ground.

 

They got a nerf, but they were still powerful.  It just took some effort to learn how to play them in ME2.

 

But isn't that the point of ME being a hybrid of RPG and Shooter? Neither group is going to be 100% happy but that is why ME should have room to allow eich to play as they choose with perks and drawbacks on each side. If a player wants to pour their earned talent points into Tech or Biotic abilities and get to the point where guns are less useful then they should have the option of doing so. That is the issue I had with ME2. It's not that I had to use the gun at all, anyone who looks at this type of game should expect gun use, it's that the shared cool down and nerfing of Powers boxed all players, regardless of their style or what attracted them to the series, into a certain style of playing.

 

You are right, it is a hybrid RPG and shooter.  Having RPG elements does not mean that the game should take an "anything goes" approach to mechanics or gameplay design.

 

Nerfs from ME1 to ME2 were exaggerated anyway.  With respect to Biotics, it was more difficult to just look at a room of enemies and keep them indefinitely CC'd, but it was possible to actually deal respectable damage with them unlike in the first game.  Tech powers got a serious buff in ME2 relative to ME1.


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