45 réponses à ce sujet

[caradoc2000]

Let that be a lesson to future emperors, want unchallenged power?

...wait for them to sell the franchise to Disney and hope for Episode VII?

[TheSpookyAce]

I don't understand what you guys are talking about. Isn't prowler armor only wearable by rogues?

[caradoc2000]

I don't understand what you guys are talking about. Isn't prowler armor only wearable by rogues?

Initially yes, but crafting medium armor with snoufleur skin (as pointed out by OP) allows the armor to be equipped by any class.

 

Edit: Dales Loden Wool, Snoufleur Skin and Silverite remove the class restriction for their respective armor types.

[TheSpookyAce]

Initially yes, but crafting medium armor with snoufleur skin (as pointed out by OP) allows the armor to be equipped by any class.

Ha. I have over 1000 hours SP and MP combined on this game and I just learned this. Oops.

 

Thx btw.

[caradoc2000]

Ha. I have over 1000 hours SP and MP combined on this game and I just learned this.

Live and learn.
 
If your specialization is Necromancer, the creed is "not live but still learn"

[Bigdawg13]

I don't really consider necros to be a dps class. More of a knockdown class. They're really good at knocking people over. They're really good at bowling? The worst specialization in the game, which is a shame because I quite like Dorian. Their inability to crit on their dots doesn't make crit less ideal, it just makes necromancers worse. In fact, I'd still build crit on a necromancer if for some reason I'm held at gunpoint and forced to play the class, largely because one ability won't disillusion me from the superior damage on every other ability.


As far as roleplaying, that's why I put from a combat perspective. I'm well aware of the potential roleplaying aspect of this game.

Huh never occured to me to look in the t3 cloth for better dexterity. That's goddamn crazy.

4+5+8+6 x 2 = 46 dex

6+8+8 x 1.75 = 38.5
4 x 2 = 8

46.5 dex
game rounds up, 47 flat.

Better damage, I'll take it. Sucks that you have to wait until JoH to make it worth anything though. Can't wait until golden nug.

Too bad it looks the same though. Was really hoping it would not.

So your response is that a class sucks if it doesn't fit your mold. Interesting but definitely seeing a trend.

[actionhero112]

So your response is that a class sucks if it doesn't fit your mold. Interesting but definitely seeing a trend.

 

No it sucks if it's skills are out classed by other specializations. How is an 200% damage single target tic worth more than unlimited mana, the best AoE skill in the game and an off class detonator? How is it better than a functionally cooldownless  300 modifier AoE that works with rune damage, a low cooldown AoE knockdown 1000% modifier that also makes you invulnerable, and unlimited barrier? 

 

I'm just being real, the specialization just isn't as good as the rest. The skills combined with the fact that none of the necromancer's skills scale with arguably the best staff in the game, the lovias schematic, I feel perfect fine writing it off as bad. Doesn't mean you can't play it or not have fun with it. It's just not good however.

 

I mean I'd be fine if you had an argument, but at this point you're engaging in ad hominem. Tell me why the necromancer is better than the rift mage or the knight enchanter. Tell me its niche. Why should I play it beyond roleplaying? 

[draken-heart]

No it sucks if it's skills are out classed by other specializations. How is an 200% damage single target tic worth more than unlimited mana, the best AoE skill in the game and an off class detonator? How is it better than a functionally cooldownless  300 modifier AoE that works with rune damage, a low cooldown AoE knockdown 1000% modifier that also makes you invulnerable, and unlimited barrier? 

 

I'm just being real, the specialization just isn't as good as the rest. The skills combined with the fact that none of the necromancer's skills scale with arguably the best staff in the game, the lovias schematic, I feel perfect fine writing it off as bad. Doesn't mean you can't play it or not have fun with it. It's just not good however.

 

I mean I'd be fine if you had an argument, but at this point you're engaging in ad hominem. Tell me why the necromancer is better than the rift mage or the knight enchanter. Tell me its niche. Why should I play it beyond roleplaying? 

 

I am certain that Bigdawg13 will say it better, but simply put Simulacrum+heal on hit=no wiping and having to restart dangerous encounters, good for when you are certainly going to lose ALL party members.

 

Not to mention that rift mage's infinite mana is useless with 1/4 of the base trees which actually has some decent damage spells needed for the infinite mana thing to work when hitting weakened targets.

[actionhero112]

I am certain that Bigdawg13 will say it better, but simply put Simulacrum+heal on hit=no wiping and having to restart dangerous encounters, good for when you are certainly going to lose ALL party members.

 

I can not die with any class, necromancer doesn't add anything to that. Heal on hit essentially means you're going to be crafting, and once I start crafting, I definitely won't die regardless of class. I can't actually remember a fight I had to reload post skyhold. 

 

God so in order to make full use of the necromancer, I have to die? Sounds fantastic. 

 

Tell me why walking bomb is worth giving up everything the rift mage and knight enchanter has to give. 

 

Also if stimulacrum ends and everyone is dead, party still wipes. 

[Bigdawg13]

Passives alone are worth it. Rift Mage conflicts with lightning (you lose restorative veil and handycap on gear options). Knight enchanter is boring.

Necromancy gives you good damage against single or aoe. Three sources of spirit damage (walking bomb alone is 2000% spirit damage not including other sources).

But really this thread was a whine post. A big boo hoo about prowler armor. I find it laughable considering it devalues defensive alternatives so limited skills could be sunk in non-dps trees like 2h reaver relying on SnS / warcry. My guess is you dupe amulets of power.

Truth is you should thank me. If necro is as bad as you think and the game is so trivial, I've given you a goal. Go play a dot-based necro with heavy crit.

[draken-heart]

Passives alone are worth it. Rift Mage conflicts with lightning (you lose restorative veil and handycap on gear options). Knight enchanter is boring.

Necromancy gives you good damage against single or aoe. Three sources of spirit damage (walking bomb alone is 2000% spirit damage not including other sources).

But really this thread was a whine post. A big boo hoo about prowler armor. I find it laughable considering it devalues defensive alternatives so limited skills could be sunk in non-dps trees like 2h reaver relying on SnS / warcry. My guess is you dupe amulets of power.

Truth is you should thank me. If necro is as bad as you think and the game is so trivial, I've given you a goal. Go play a dot-based necro with heavy crit.

 

Not to mention that, for a knight enchanter, the "infinite barrier" is not actually infinite, just constantly maxed for as long as the mage is doing damage (I know, spoiled and insulted EVERY KE player out there, but who cares).

 

Also, much better than me, as I said.

[actionhero112]

Passives alone are worth it. Rift Mage conflicts with lightning (you lose restorative veil and handycap on gear options). Knight enchanter is boring.

Necromancy gives you good damage against single or aoe. Three sources of spirit damage (walking bomb alone is 2000% spirit damage not including other sources).

But really this thread was a whine post. A big boo hoo about prowler armor. I find it laughable considering it devalues defensive alternatives so limited skills could be sunk in non-dps trees like 2h reaver relying on SnS / warcry. My guess is you dupe amulets of power.

Truth is you should thank me. If necro is as bad as you think and the game is so trivial, I've given you a goal. Go play a dot-based necro with heavy crit.

 

Good damage. LOL

 

Literally awful damage. 200% weapon damage every other second is pathetic. 600% in a small AoE is ok, but outclassed by fire mine in pretty much every aspect. Spirit mark and horror are literally not worth a slot when you're limited to just 8. So you shouldn't really bring them up at all. 

 

Oh wait but don't worry, the skill also doesn't scale with crit, you know, the way to actually get high damage.  

 

The panic damage passive that only works for one hit. That's justifies taking this  specialization?

 

Death syphon is ok, but not as good as it is in multiplayer, due to higher health bars and less competent teammates. Mediocre.

 

Or maybe the damage bonus on kill, which you won't receive because you do such paltry tickling damage. 

 

Or maybe simulacrum, the passive that requires you to die for it to work and prevents revives from heals when active. (which you know, every mage can do)

 

Frankly the class needs straight buffs to be more in line with the rest of the specializations.. 

 

As for the attack on rift mage, the loss of lightning damage is hardly specialization ruining. Energy Barrage, Blizzard, Barrier, PtoA, Stonefist,, Ice Mine, Fire Mine and Immolate. Perfectly good build, requires no lightning.  

 

 

The rest of your post is an attack on me, and responding to it is beneath me.

 

I mean how can you compare it to the knight enchanter or rift mage. It's just so bad. 

[actionhero112]

Problem with this is that Blizzard is rather pointless really, and to get the most out of rift mage, you need to do DAMAGE to WEAKENED targets, so not all that great really. Also, Storm has some pretty good skills (I rather find Chain lightning better than a puny mine that I have to pull everybody into BEFORE it goes off for it to do anything to them, as CL has a decent range, and does good damage on as little as two targets) and Static cage is a pretty great CC, but not worth spending a whole lot of points for over Ice mine or Veil Strike.

 

I love me some chain lightning, I just don't use it late game because it's awful on bosses. But pre skyhold it's fantastic.

 

Blizzard's purpose is twofold, 1. persistent cold effect for Ice Armor 2. Damage. It doesn't refund mana, but's effectively infinite due to how restorative veil works. 

 

You're free to replace it with fade step if you want. Honestly it's the build I'm tinkering with when I do a solo run that something other than rogue or ke, which is why I like the persistent cold effect.  Probably should try to work fade step in there myself. 

 

I'll give it to you that fire mine takes some getting use to, but I hardly ever miss with it now, and the damage is insane. It's also infinitely easier to hit if you knock them down with stonefist or lead them into an ice mine first.   Also ranged units are dumb, and don't notice it beneath their feet. So if you're unsure you can hit it, look for the enemy range units. 

 

Effectively my point is that you're not limited by missing shock, because the rift mage tree, cold and fire tree have plenty of useful skills to fill your slots with. Also energy barrage is staff damage, so technically you can use the storm tree. Really you're only missing 2 skills, both of which I don't use anyways. 

 

I don't like static cage anymore. I carried it on solas when I did my templar run, but I just don't think it's worth the point investment. I tend to favor ice mine in terms of combo primers. 

[draken-heart]

I love me some chain lightning, I just don't use it late game because it's awful on bosses. But pre skyhold it's fantastic.

 

Blizzard's purpose is twofold, 1. persistent cold effect for Ice Armor 2. Damage. It doesn't refund mana, but's effectively infinite due to how restorative veil works. 

 

You're free to replace it with fade step if you want. Honestly it's the build I'm tinkering with when I do a solo run that something other than rogue or ke, which is why I like the persistent cold effect.  Probably should try to work fade step in there myself. 

 

I'll give it to you that fire mine takes some getting use to, but I hardly ever miss with it now, and the damage is insane. It's also infinitely easier to hit if you knock them down with stonefist or lead them into an ice mine first.   Also ranged units are dumb, and don't notice it beneath their feet. So if you're unsure you can hit it, look for the enemy range units. 

 

Effectively my point is that you're not limited by missing shock, because the rift mage tree, cold and fire tree have plenty of useful skills to fill your slots with. Also energy barrage is staff damage, so technically you can use the storm tree.

 

I don't like static cage anymore. I carried it on solas when I did my templar run, but I just don't think it's worth the point investment. I tend to favor ice mine in terms of combo primers. 

 

Blizzard is only useable by rift mages, but restorative veil needs the target to be weakened to be useful, and Blizzard needs a lot of targets to have it up for a decent amount of time, not at all worth the points to upgrade it. Ice armor is alright, but only really needed if your tank is a moron and does not grab all the targets to him/her (in case of Champion Inky), and if everything is dying fast, no need for ice armor either.

 

And it does not help that if a rift mage or KE get dropped, they are out, and no more damage, and a Necro can still help out in that department from the "other side" for a bit.

[actionhero112]

Blizzard is only useable by rift mages, but restorative veil needs the target to be weakened to be useful, and Blizzard needs a lot of targets to have it up for a decent amount of time, not at all worth the points to upgrade it. Ice armor is alright, but only really needed if your tank is a moron and does not grab all the targets to him/her (in case of Champion Inky), and if everything is dying fast, no need for ice armor either.

 

 

Yeah I agree on ice armor, but the purpose of the build was to solo, so I'm not going to have a tank. 

 

Blizzard's dot actually doesn't work with restorative veil, if I recall, which is why I normally don't take it. But I needed the persistent cold effect so I chose it. 

Weakness is pretty easy to generate. That part of restorative veil has never really been hard to activate for me due to how low of a cooldown there is on stonefist and how easy it is to create with stagger on being hit armor and eldrich detonators. 

[draken-heart]

Yeah I agree on ice armor, but the purpose of the build was to solo, so I'm not going to have a tank. 

 

Blizzard's dot actually doesn't work with restorative veil, if I recall, which is why I normally don't take it. But I needed the persistent cold effect so I chose it. 

Weakness is pretty easy to generate. That part of restorative veil has never really been hard to activate for me due to how low of a cooldown there is on stonefist and how easy it is to create with stagger on being hit armor and eldrich detonators. 

 

The point is that There are things that are not that great. The power of the rift mage is also its weakness. Without the weaken effect, it is nothing, so of course it is easy to generate, as the entire tree revolves around it.

 

Also, it is kind of easy to forget about. There have been times that I played as Solas, and totally forgot he had an upgraded stonefist, or any rift mage abilities for that matter, so I always just leave it to the AI to muck up.

[actionhero112]

The point is that There are things that are not that great. The power of the rift mage is also its weakness. Without the weaken effect, it is nothing, so of course it is easy to generate, as the entire tree revolves around it.

 

But you see, the rift mage has a niche. Unlimited mana when built right and the best cc in the game, which cannot be duplicated. The knight enchanter has a niche, strong self buffs, and the highest damage for a mage, unparalleled synergy with clean burn and near invulnerability when built right.

 

What does the necromancer have? Less damage than the Knight Enchanter and less CC and mana sustain than the Rift Mage. It's just the weakest, because it doesn't really excel in anything. Walking bomb isn't a bad spell, it's just hard to justify it over everything the Knight Enchanter and Rift Mage has. 

 

Let's take a look at the other classes.

Assassins. Tempests and Artificers all do their job about equally, pretty much everything dies quick to a rogue. Assassin's are better at dropping aggro and have the highest damage non focus ability in the game, Tempest has the biggest nuke and defensive abilities, Artificer has unparalleled cdr. 

 

Templars have the best AoE mob clear. Reavers do exceptional DPS, though require careful aggro management. Champions are nigh invulnerable with threat holding capabilities and have the best team damage buff in To the Death.

 

They all excel in separate areas. Except for the necromancer, who is woefully mediocre, when compared to his contemporaries. The specialization doesn't have enough to distinguish itself.

 

Ideally the class would have pets to redirect aggro and provide extra health sponges, as do most game's necromancers. Unfortunately, spirit mark's effects are... unreliable. The pet's patterns are random and the dps from the dot isn't that great.

 

This is compounded by the fact that it's strongest effects can be duplicated by masterworks, some of which are even better than the original necromancer ability. Fade Touched Nevarrite's explode for 75% damage on kill is just better than walking bombs explosion, because it works off of the final hit that killed the enemy. Meaning that if a rogue hits a unit for 15k with an ability, you'll see a ridiculous damage explosion rather than the rather mousy 600% damage from just a staff. 

 

It's the lack of an identity + easily duplicatable effects that makes the necromancer sub par. There is just no reason to take the spec. 

[draken-heart]

There is just no reason to take the spec. 

 

I honestly do not care about comparing anything but equipment before crafting "end-game" gear. I see no reason to take ANY spec as not having a spec can do just as well as having one. They are all added flavor to me, nothing more.

[Dabrikishaw]

Walking Bomb doesn't get the 600% Explosion damage actually. It's a known bug.

[Bigdawg13]

Walking Bomb doesn't get the 600% Explodsion damage actually. It's a known bug.

 

True, but even without the explosion it is a very powerful spell.  I love casting a free walking bomb, letting everyone group up, and then spreading it around.  2000% spirit damage on every single target (for free) is just lovely.  And while high crit would let a Rift mage spam stonefist, I am not locked up with GCD and can do other tasks all the while my dots chew through everyone.  And then the fireworks...ohhh the glorious fireworks of bodies bursting in the air.  *maniacal laughter*

[actionhero112]

Walking Bomb doesn't get the 600% Explodsion damage actually. It's a known bug.

 

Wow. They haven't fixed it? 

 

 

True, but even without the explosion it is a very powerful spell.  I love casting a free walking bomb, letting everyone group up, and then spreading it around.  2000% spirit damage on every single target (for free) is just lovely.  And while high crit would let a Rift mage spam stonefist, I am not locked up with GCD and can do other tasks all the while my dots chew through everyone.  And then the fireworks...ohhh the glorious fireworks of bodies bursting in the air.  *maniacal laughter*

 

 

WB actually also only does spirit damage every other second. So it's even worse. Functionally worse than a constant 300% damage AoE that deflects missiles and gives that steroid to it's rune damage with 1000% damage spikes.

 

I was actually hoping that they fixed WB and at least try to make it do more damage than fire mine. 

 

Damage isn't why you take the necromancer. You take it to knock people over a lot with walking bomb. That's its niche. You're a bowler.