47 réponses à ce sujet

[Incantrix]

I hope this hasn't been answered somewhere, but I've looked everywhere for the answer. 

 

Now, we all know (or should) that the first and current generation of Biotics happened with accidental exposure to Eezo coating the planet. Could the current Biotics pass their biotics to their children? Or would human biotics have to be artificially created by eezo exposure? 

 

Thinking towards the Asari, they are genetically biotics and pass their biotics to their children. However, it was only because Thessia is literally rich with the stuff so the local life-forms of the planet adapted to the presence of eezo. 

 

Could the current generation give birth to new biotics without the dangerous eezo exposure method? 

[Halfdan The Menace]

The Protheans gave this gift to the races of Milky Way after centuries of bio-research.

[Salarian Master Race]

midichlorians

[capn233]

I think it is supposed to be multifactorial with eezo exposure to individuals with the right genotype.

 

Biotics are supposed to have element zero nodules in body tissue, so it should not be passed down solely through genetics.

 

From the Codex on Biotics

 

Eezo exposure is by no means guaranteed to result in biotic ability. On the contrary, most fetuses that are exposed are not affected at all. Others will develop brain tumors or other horrific physical complications. In humans, only about one in ten eezo-exposed infants will develop biotic talents strong and stable enough to merit training, and these abilities are not always permanent. In extremely rare cases, humans who were exposed in utero but did not manifest biotic talents as children can develop them during young adulthood through additional exposure.

[MrFob]

It's definitely not genetic because the whole point is that eezo is present in our brain and when subjected to the bioelectric energy generated by our nervous system, it creates ME fields. This means you need eezo which is not a protein and therefore cannot be encoded in DNA.

That said the codex indicates that eezo, when present inside the body, is a carcinogenic and therefore likely foster mutation. This mutation, which would likely be random - may be passed on to offspring but not cause biotic abilities.

However, biotics, while not genetic, may still be hereditary. I could imagine a scenario where part of the eezo within the biotic mother is transferred to the child in the womb. The child may then develop biotic abilities although I'd suspect that they would weaken from generation to generation.

 

All this also poses a problem with the Asari by the way. After more than 2000 years of space travel and colonization, lot's of Asari would have been born on other worlds  than Thessia (some of them 2nd, 3rd or more generations removed probably). So how is it that they are still all biotics if it weren't hereditary in some way. Unless they all get treatment starting in the womb. But then, Asari reproduction is so wacky, who knows what's going on with them.

[Incantrix]

It's definitely not genetic because the whole point is that eezo is present in our brain and when subjected to the bioelectric energy generated by our nervous system, it creates ME fields. This means you need eezo which is not a protein and therefore cannot be encoded in DNA.

That said the codex indicates that eezo, when present inside the body, is a carcinogenic and therefore likely foster mutation. This mutation, which would likely be random - may be passed on to offspring but not cause biotic abilities.

However, biotics, while not genetic, may still be hereditary. I could imagine a scenario where part of the eezo within the biotic mother is transferred to the child in the womb. The child may then develop biotic abilities although I'd suspect that they would weaken from generation to generation.

 

All this also poses a problem with the Asari by the way. After more than 2000 years of space travel and colonization, lot's of Asari would have been born on other worlds  than Thessia (some of them 2nd, 3rd or more generations removed probably). So how is it that they are still all biotics if it weren't hereditary in some way. Unless they all get treatment starting in the womb. But then, Asari reproduction is so wacky, who knows what's going on with them.

 

another fair point. This whole reason was why I assumed biotics to be genetic. Asari are said to be born biotics even though not all Asari actually develop their power.   So if it's genetic with them, couldn't it become genetic with humans? There's only one generation of biotics right now and no lore of any biotics and their offspring. 

[BiggyDX]

It's definitely not genetic because the whole point is that eezo is present in our brain and when subjected to the bioelectric energy generated by our nervous system, it creates ME fields. This means you need eezo which is not a protein and therefore cannot be encoded in DNA.

That said the codex indicates that eezo, when present inside the body, is a carcinogenic and therefore likely foster mutation. This mutation, which would likely be random - may be passed on to offspring but not cause biotic abilities.

However, biotics, while not genetic, may still be hereditary. I could imagine a scenario where part of the eezo within the biotic mother is transferred to the child in the womb. The child may then develop biotic abilities although I'd suspect that they would weaken from generation to generation.

 

All this also poses a problem with the Asari by the way. After more than 2000 years of space travel and colonization, lot's of Asari would have been born on other worlds  than Thessia (some of them 2nd, 3rd or more generations removed probably). So how is it that they are still all biotics if it weren't hereditary in some way. Unless they all get treatment starting in the womb. But then, Asari reproduction is so wacky, who knows what's going on with them.

 

About the Asari:

 

Spoiler

Asari were genetically tampered with by the Protheans so that they can manipulate Mass Effect fields innately. It's as natural for them as having 5 fingers is for us. This is likely why their ability to manipulate ME fields hasn't diminished over the last 50k years.

[MrFob]

@Incantrix & BiggyDX: As I explained, genetics alone or genetic engineering is not going to cut it, no matter how fancy since we need material that is not a protein, i.e. that cannot be transcribed from DNA. You need eezo and the body cannot produce it, so you need an outside source. As I said, this may be the mother but in this case, the effects should dilute more and more with each generation unless you can replenish it from the outside (which may very well be what the Asari do).

[Panda]

@Incantrix & BiggyDX: As I explained, genetics alone or genetic engineering is not going to cut it, no matter how fancy since we need material that is not a protein, i.e. that cannot be transcribed from DNA. You need eezo and the body cannot produce it, so you need an outside source. As I said, this may be the mother but in this case, the effects should dilute more and more with each generation unless you can replenish it from the outside (which may very well be what the Asari do).

 

What if Asaris simply have evolved so that their bodies produce Eezo?

[MrFob]

What if Asaris simply have evolved so that their bodies produce Eezo?

 

Our bodies do not generate or transform elements, they perform chemical reactions, which result in molecular transitions, not element transformation.

In order to change one element into another, you'd need to perform nuclear chemistry (here is a random document I just found on google that offers a simplified description). Suffice it to say that our bodies could not handle the amount of energy required to do it.

Even worse, according to the codex, eezo is even more special since it is only generated when solid matter is affected by a super nova. So unless we find a way to generate and contain a mini nova in our abdomen or something, we are out of luck.

[Panda]

Our bodies do not generate or transform elements, they perform chemical reactions, which result in molecular transitions, not element transformation.

In order to change one element into another, you'd need to perform nuclear chemistry (here is a random document I just found on google that offers a simplified description). Suffice it to say that our bodies could not handle the amount of energy required to do it.

Even worse, according to the codex, eezo is even more special since it is only generated when solid matter is affected by a super nova. So unless we find a way to generate and maintain a mini nova in our abdomen or something, we are out of luck.

 

Alright. I guess the answer for the problem then is "space magic"

[capn233]

another fair point. This whole reason was why I assumed biotics to be genetic. Asari are said to be born biotics even though not all Asari actually develop their power.   So if it's genetic with them, couldn't it become genetic with humans? There's only one generation of biotics right now and no lore of any biotics and their offspring. 

 

It is almost certainly supposed to be partially genetic in the ME universe, mainly because I doubt the writers are making nuanced distinctions between genetics and epigenetics.

 

Eezo exposure requires some sort of compatible phenotype to result in a biotic.  Genetics are involved given that Miranda was tuned to be one of the best human biotics, and Asari biotic affinity being the result of Prothean genetic manipulation.

[MrFob]

It is almost certainly supposed to be partially genetic in the ME universe, mainly because I doubt the writers are making nuanced distinctions between genetics and epigenetics.

 

Eezo exposure requires some sort of compatible phenotype to result in a biotic.  Genetics are involved given that Miranda was tuned to be one of the best human biotics, and Asari biotic affinity being the result of Prothean genetic manipulation.

 

This is very possible. There may very well be a certain gene or genes that determine the probability of whether or not someone will become a biotic when exposed to eezo in the womb or whether they will just die. You still need the exposure though.

[capn233]

Which is why I posted it was multifactorial earlier in the thread.

[cap and gown]

This is very possible. There may very well be a certain gene or genes that determine the probability of whether or not someone will become a biotic when exposed to eezo in the womb or whether they will just die. You still need the exposure though.

 

This doesn't really mean much. You need to be "exposed" to iron to develop hemoglobin. You need to be "exposed" to all kinds of things to make most of the processes in our body work. Someone could be genetically primed to become a biotic without ever being exposed to eezo.

 

As for Javik's claim, it is on its face absurd. Javik is a troll and his writer probably never read a codex entry in their life.

[MrFob]

This doesn't really mean much. You need to be "exposed" to iron to develop hemoglobin. You need to be "exposed" to all kinds of things to make most of the processes in our body work. Someone could be genetically primed to become a biotic without ever being exposed to eezo.
 
As for Javik's claim, it is on its face absurd. Javik is a troll and his writer probably never read a codex entry in their life.

 
Difference is, iron, carbon, copper, magnesium and all the other elements that are used in abundance in our bodies are readily available in our environment. That's why they are essential in the first place because we evolved in this environment and our bodies are adapted to work with its materials.
 
Eezo is specifically stated to be only found in certain spots (and those are mostly not environments supporting life, Thessia being a special case). So when Asari grow up outside of Thessia, in an environment that is not rich in eezo, they would probably require eezo supplements somehow, just like we would require iron supplements if we do not get it enough because of rarity in our environment (specifically food in this case).

Which is why I posted it was multifactorial earlier in the thread.

I never said anything against that. Just trying to point out that genetics alone is not enough to generate a biotic.

[capn233]

AFAIK there isn't really any lore on eezo being passed from mother biotics to their child independent of external environmental eezo.  In ME1, biotics were supposed to be rare and seemed to mainly be linked to environmental exposures.  And Kaidan's generation was one of the earliest for humans.  There is room for clarification in the lore.

[MGW7]

Remember, on Thessia all life forms possess some level of biotics, every plant, animal, and otherwise has at least trace levels of eezo stored in it's tissues. So Asari would be exposed to eezo through their native diet, and would be able to eat foods that would be considered contaminated by the element otherwise. It is likely that any Asari who plan to develop their potential would be on a diet composed primarily from foods that are rich in eezo, so as to bolster their abilities, while Asari who are not, such as the Ardat Yakshi at the monastery, would eat foods with less eezo, limiting their biotics much more heavily.

 

This would also explain why Asari biotics become massively more powerful over time, as the oldest matriarchs would have spent the centuries accumulating greater and greater levels of eezo in their bodies, on top of their developed skills.

[MrFob]

Remember, on Thessia all life forms possess some level of biotics, every plant, animal, and otherwise has at least trace levels of eezo stored in it's tissues. So Asari would be exposed to eezo through their native diet, and would be able to eat foods that would be considered contaminated by the element otherwise. It is likely that any Asari who plan to develop their potential would be on a diet composed primarily from foods that are rich in eezo, so as to bolster their abilities, while Asari who are not, such as the Ardat Yakshi at the monastery, would eat foods with less eezo, limiting their biotics much more heavily.

 

This would also explain why Asari biotics become massively more powerful over time, as the oldest matriarchs would have spent the centuries accumulating greater and greater levels of eezo in their bodies, on top of their developed skills.

 

Maybe, although from what we learn, prenatal exposure seems to be required (can't quite remember if that was specific to humans though, maybe it's different for the Asari). In any case, since the Asari don't seem to face a risk factor from eezo in their bodies, I can imagine pregnant woman may undergo some sort of treatment to retain the biotic abilities in their offspring if they are not on Thessia.

 

In humans, this would be rather risky. Even if there is a genetic disposition to surviving eezo exposure and becoming a biotic, I doubt it would be 100% predictable. Looks like Cerberus was working on the problem though (see Gillian from the novels).

[Kakistos_]

Maybe, although from what we learn, prenatal exposure seems to be required (can't quite remember if that was specific to humans though, maybe it's different for the Asari). In any case, since the Asari don't seem to face a risk factor from eezo in their bodies, I can imagine pregnant woman may undergo some sort of treatment to retain the biotic abilities in their offspring if they are not on Thessia.

 

In humans, this would be rather risky. Even if there is a genetic disposition to surviving eezo exposure and becoming a biotic, I doubt it would be 100% predictable. Looks like Cerberus was working on the problem though (see Gillian from the novels).

Your argument makes sense. The specifics were never explained in game but it is not s stretch to suggest that the Asari, anticipating this situation as they expanded out from their home world, would take steps to ensure that expecting Asari mothers throughout the galaxy had the tools they needed preserve their species' advantage. It is also possible that to form properly, given their eezo rich environment, that eezo exposure is essential, not giving the mothers a choice in the matter if they want a healthy baby.

[DextroDNA]

All asari have biotics genetically thanks to the genetic modification provided by the Protheans thousands of years ago. All the other races only gain biotic capabilities after being exposed to eezo in utero. But not all foetuses exposed to eezo will gain biotic potential, some are unaffected, some die of tumours and some gain biotic abilities.

 

Any other race other than the asari need biotic implants (amps) to use their abilities. It's not really delved into why asari don't need implants, it's just casually mentioned that they don't. Perhaps this is because of their species' long-term exposure to eezo and the genetic modification by the Protheans.

[Iakus]

All asari have biotics genetically thanks to the genetic modification provided by the Protheans thousands of years ago. All the other races only gain biotic capabilities after being exposed to eezo in utero. But not all foetuses exposed to eezo will gain biotic potential, some are unaffected, some die of tumours and some gain biotic abilities.

 

Any other race other than the asari need biotic implants (amps) to use their abilities. It's not really delved into why asari don't need implants, it's just casually mentioned that they don't. Perhaps this is because of their species' long-term exposure to eezo and the genetic modification by the Protheans.

Asari are all naturally biotic.  But they need training and implants to develop their ability just like any other race.  I take this to mean that asari can handle having eezo in their systems and don't risk mutation and such.  But are not born with the innate ability to genrate mass effect fields.

[DextroDNA]

Asari are all naturally biotic.  But they need training and implants to develop their ability just like any other race.  I take this to mean that asari can handle having eezo in their systems and don't risk mutation and such.  But are not born with the innate ability to genrate mass effect fields.

They do need training (which some choose not to take), but they don't need implants to generate the mass effect fields. They could use amps to increase their power, but they don't need the implants to use their abilities at a low level unlike other species.

 

All asari are born with biotic potential, regardless of exposure to eezo - likely due to the fact that their species evolved on a planet with large amounts of eezo and Prothean genetic modification.

[MrFob]

So, the thing with the implants and amps kinda makes a little bit of sense. To be honest, I always thought that the amps connect to the implants, but I guess asari could use something that works externally (maybe something like deep brain transmagnetic stimulation. It makes sense that their brains would have evolved to stimulate eezo nodes with better efficiency and synchrony (although the energy requirements for biotics in general are still completely out of wack).
 

All asari are born with biotic potential, regardless of exposure to eezo - likely due to the fact that their species evolved on a planet with large amounts of eezo and Prothean genetic modification.

 
Now, for this one, I'd like to see a source. It would be quite the ... shall we call it lore-hole.

'Cause as far as I know, you cannot create an ME field without eezo and as I explained (rather extensively), there is no way to to use genetics only to make people biotics in the sense that the codex dexcribes them. As capn233 and iakus said, genetic engineering may play a role but it cannot be the only factor.

[DextroDNA]

So, the thing with the implants and amps kinda makes a little bit of sense. To be honest, I always thought that the amps connect to the implants, but I guess asari could use something that works externally (maybe something like deep brain transmagnetic stimulation. It makes sense that their brains would have evolved to stimulate eezo nodes with better efficiency and synchrony (although the energy requirements for biotics in general are still completely out of wack).
 

 
Now, for this one, I'd like to see a source. It would be quite the ... shall we call it lore-hole.

'Cause as far as I know, you cannot create an ME field without eezo and as I explained (rather extensively), there is no way to to use genetics only to make people biotics in the sense that the codex dexcribes them. As capn233 and iakus said, genetic engineering may play a role but it cannot be the only factor.

Source is common knowledge, I guess? It's in the codex and said in-game that all asari are born with biotic potential. The "eezo nodules" that develop in the brain when another species is exposed to eezo must be natural in asari, thanks to genetic modification. The nodules generate mass effect fields when energised by electrical impulses in the brain, which is what we see biotics using. Implants allow the person to control their biotics and amps amplify the power so they can actually do something with it.

 

It is said in-game that asari don't requite implants, and according to the wiki: "They do not require implants to use biotics effectively, nor do they need to undergo special training to acquire conscious neural control; their reproductive physiology grants them this ability from birth." Asari nervous systems are very different to that of other species, so that could also explain why they don't need implants to control their biotics.

 

Also, it was me who mentioned the genetic engineering, not Iakus