47 réponses à ce sujet

[MrFob]

Source is common knowledge, I guess?

 
Common knowladge (about what exactly "genetics" means) tells us that this:

The "eezo nodules" that develop in the brain when another species is exposed to eezo must be natural in asari, thanks to genetic modification.

is not possible (please read the previous posts in this thread).

 

Reading this thread however makes me think this knowladge is not so common after all and people have a very wrong idea about what genetics and genetic engineering are.
 

 

It is said in-game that asari don't requite implants, and according to the wiki: "They do not require implants to use biotics effectively, nor do they need to undergo special training to acquire conscious neural control; their reproductive physiology grants them this ability from birth." Asari nervous systems are very different to that of other species, so that could also explain why they don't need implants to control their biotics.

And that I agreed with (to some extent).
 

Also, it was me who mentioned the genetic engineering, not Iakus

Yea, my fault. Still doesn't work though (at least not on its own)..

[MGW7]

If the parent has eezo in their body, doesn't that expose the child by default,

 

if the parents are biotics wouldn't that mean their children are more likely to be at least semi biotic, due to the shared genetic traits that allowed the parent to develop biotics, and the low levels of eezo passed on from the mother's body to the child along with everything else in utero.

[Han Shot First]

About the Asari:

 

Spoiler

Asari were genetically tampered with by the Protheans so that they can manipulate Mass Effect fields innately. It's as natural for them as having 5 fingers is for us. This is likely why their ability to manipulate ME fields hasn't diminished over the last 50k years.

 

The Protheans made contact with Stone Age Asari and were involved in kickstarting their civilization, but IIRC I don't believe it was ever stated that the Protheans were responsible for the Asari being biotics. On the other hand it has been awhile since I've played the game, so maybe I've forgotten a line or two by Javik.

 

It would actually be rather silly if the Protheans were involved in making the Asari biotics, as Thessia is the most eezo-rich of the known planets in the galaxy and it was said that the entire animal kingdom was either biotic or resistant to eezo. Also the Protheans only made contact with the Asari about 50,000 years prior to Mass Effect 1, which is practically yesterday in evolutionary terms. 

 

IMO its much more likely that the Asari are natural biotics due to the eezo in their natural enviroment. The role of the Protheans is in beginning the process of an uplift before the Reapers wiped them out.

[shodiswe]

Seems to be a combination of genetics and exposure. Asari got it in their food... Because it's everywhere on Thessia, not sure how Asari born elsewhere are affected by what could be a slightly lwoer amount of Eezo in the food. They might still be importaing certain things from thessia, but food produced on an eezo poor planet should contain less Eezo.

[Han Shot First]

Seems to be a combination of genetics and exposure. Asari got it in their food... Because it's everywhere on Thessia, not sure how Asari born elsewhere are affected by what could be a slightly lwoer amount of Eezo in the food. They might still be importaing certain things from thessia, but food produced on an eezo poor planet should contain less Eezo.

 

It seems to be genetic with the Asari, so they aren't reliant on eezo also being in the enviroment of colony worlds to develop into biotics. The effect of eezo in Thessia's enviroment was likely in influencing the path their evolution took rather than in creating biotics similar to how human biotics are created. 

 

On the other hand the lore on biotics states that they have eezo nodules on their nervous systems, so with colonist Asari you're probably right in that on eezo poor worlds they're probably dependent on food sources that were either imported or transplanted from Thessia. Dust-form eezo is supposed to be extremely plentiful in Thessia's enviroment, making Asari food and water unsafe for consumption for other species without modification, so imported livestock and vegetables also probably have some natural eezo content. Maybe they also import eezo and introduce it to their water, similar to how some modern countries introduce fluoride to their public water supply.

[DextroDNA]

I think I'm being misunderstood. Prothean genetic modification to early asari (circa 50k+ years ago) must've made it so the eezo nodules in the brain of an asari are naturally occurring in infants. You can't just say "that's impossible" - there's no evidence for either side of the argument, it's just all speculation. But this theory makes the most sense.

 

Genetics and genetic engineering obviously aren't the same thing, MrFob - nobody said that. But if early asari were genetically modified, then their children and their descendants would display these genetic modifications also, therefore the modifications would become genetic standards in the whole species. 

[DextroDNA]

The Protheans made contact with Stone Age Asari and were involved in kickstarting their civilization, but IIRC I don't believe it was ever stated that the Protheans were responsible for the Asari being biotics. On the other hand it has been awhile since I've played the game, so maybe I've forgotten a line or two by Javik.

 

It would actually be rather silly if the Protheans were involved in making the Asari biotics, as Thessia is the most eezo-rich of the known planets in the galaxy and it was said that the entire animal kingdom was either biotic or resistant to eezo. Also the Protheans only made contact with the Asari about 50,000 years prior to Mass Effect 1, which is practically yesterday in evolutionary terms. 

 

IMO its much more likely that the Asari are natural biotics due to the eezo in their natural enviroment. The role of the Protheans is in beginning the process of an uplift before the Reapers wiped them out.

It is stated on Priority: Thessia (when you have Javik with you) that the Protheans gave the gift of biotics to early asari through genetic modification. Also, we don't actually have any idea when the Protheans made contact with the early asari, it may have been a lot longer than 50 thousand years - we can assume they have worshipped the "goddess" Athame for a lot longer than 50k years and Athame was actually a Prothean guise.

 

The asari developing on an eezo-rich world may have just made it easier for the Prothean to conduct these genetic modifications. Nothing in the codex or anywhere in the lore mentions the asari developing biotics because of the eezo on Thessia, just other life-forms. The codex does say the life-forms have adapted and built a resistance to the eezo as well as being biotically active. This would support the theory that the Prothean genetic modifications were helped along by the asari being adapted to eezo.

[Dantriges]

The point is that the infant still needs to get the eezo from somewhere which is problematic when not on Thessia or another world whose biosphere is saturated with eezo. An asari biotic still needs this eezo nodules in her body even if forming these nodules naturally is part of her genes.

[DextroDNA]

The point is that the infant still needs to get the eezo from somewhere which is problematic when not on Thessia or another world whose biosphere is saturated with eezo. An asari biotic still needs this eezo nodules in her body even if forming these nodules naturally is part of her genes.

Erm, that makes no sense. "She still needs eezo nodules even if the nodules are naturally forming"?

 

Prothean genetic engineering leads to these eezo nodules being natural - the asari doesn't require an exposure to eezo to grow them. ALL asari are biotics to some extent, and not all asari are born on Thessia, so they must grow naturally in asari. They don't just take all pregnant asari to an "eezo bank" and lock them in a room filled with it until the child is born.

[Han Shot First]

The point is that the infant still needs to get the eezo from somewhere which is problematic when not on Thessia or another world whose biosphere is saturated with eezo. An asari biotic still needs this eezo nodules in her body even if forming these nodules naturally is part of her genes.

 

Eezo is also present in Thessian plant and animal life, which would probably need to have been imported to colony worlds by the Asari. Colonists would probably get eezo in their food.

[Dantriges]

There is a misunderstanding it seems. I meant that the asari still needs the eezo that is part of the nodules. Eezo nodules are made out of eezo and the asari still needs to get the eezo that is forming the nodule somehow to actually form then.

[DextroDNA]

There is a misunderstanding it seems. I meant that the asari still needs the eezo that is part of the nodules. Eezo nodules are made out of eezo and the asari still needs to get the eezo that is forming the nodule somehow to actually form then.   

They're not actually made of eezo, at least I don't think they are. They're just created by exposure to eezo, though I suppose they would have to contain trace amounts of it. Again, this trace amount of eezo in the nodules could be naturally forming in asari, just like other chemical compounds in a lifeform's body.

[Han Shot First]

They're not actually made of eezo, at least I don't think they are. They're just created by exposure to eezo, though I suppose they would have to contain trace amounts of it. Again, this trace amount of eezo in the nodules could be naturally forming in asari, just like other chemical compounds in a lifeform's body.

 

One of the codex entries on biotics said that they have eezo nodules embedded in their nervous systems. 

 

Asari colonists, despite being natural biotics, would still need be getting eezo exposure from somewhere in order to form those eezo nodules. The most likely guess is that its just very prevalent in their food, most of which likely evolved on Thessia. That, or they're supplementing their diet or public water with imported dust form eezo.

[Dantriges]

Eezo is also present in Thessian plant and animal life, which would probably need to have been imported to colony worlds by the Asari. Colonists would probably get eezo in their food.

Most likely explanation. My post was a response to Dextro´s genetic modification is enough and it seems that his PoV is compeletely different.

[DextroDNA]

One of the codex entries on biotics said that they have eezo nodules embedded in their nervous systems. 

 

Asari colonists, despite being natural biotics, would still need be getting eezo exposure from somewhere in order to form those eezo nodules. The most likely guess is that its just very prevalent in their food, most of which likely evolved on Thessia. That, or they're supplementing their diet or public water with imported dust form eezo.

Yep, I've already gone through all of that and explained it all, read my previous replies.

 

What you're saying doesn't make sense. You can't be a "natural biotic" if the eezo nodules don't naturally develop in your head. That's how other species gain biotic abilities. If asari have to be exposed to eezo too, then they're not naturally biotic - they're just like every other species. So the only explanation is that asari are born with eezo nodules already in their brains; the trace amounts eezo inside them is naturally occurring.

[Han Shot First]

Yep, I've already gone through all of that and explained it all, read my previous replies.

 

What you're saying doesn't make sense. You can't be a "natural biotic" if the eezo nodules don't naturally develop in your head. That's how other species gain biotic abilities. If asari have to be exposed to eezo too, then they're not naturally biotic - they're just like every other species. So the only explanation is that asari are born with eezo nodules already in their brains; the trace amounts eezo inside them is naturally occurring.

 

The other species need surgical implants in order to use biotics, and eezo exposure doesn't always produce a potential for it. For non-Asari eezo exposure is potentially lethal.

 

I assume that by natural biotics they mean the Asari don't need medical procedures or implants to develop biotic talent (though presumably they'd still need training) and that all Asari are born with it, whereas with other species its only a certain percentage of those exposed to eezo and they need implants to harness it.

[Dantriges]

What Han said. You don´t have this only a few fetuses exposed develop biotics and infants don´t die because of braintumors as the body already knows how to embed the stuff. But manipulating mass effect fields still requires eezo. Asari are in general stronger biotics than humans unless you got the unstable L 2 implants and are one of the lucky ones. And it´s easier for asari to train. Hardly surprising if you had biotics since birth.

[Kakistos_]

I think I'm being misunderstood. Prothean genetic modification to early asari (circa 50k+ years ago) must've made it so the eezo nodules in the brain of an asari are naturally occurring in infants. You can't just say "that's impossible" - there's no evidence for either side of the argument, it's just all speculation. But this theory makes the most sense.

 

Genetics and genetic engineering obviously aren't the same thing, MrFob - nobody said that. But if early asari were genetically modified, then their children and their descendants would display these genetic modifications also, therefore the modifications would become genetic standards in the whole species. 

But then how do you explain all the other forms of life on Thessia that have natural Biotic abilities? Did the Protheans genetically modify all life on Thessia? I think the problem some have with Javik's revelations is that they contradict what was previously established lore. I can except that the Protheans had a hand in Asari Biotics but again, what about the other life on Thessia? What exactly did the Protheans do and how are the Asari different than the other creatures from their environment?

[Dantriges]

Well, it´s not like Javik was throwing around baseless statements to troll Liara, it was in their own codex of Athame after all. If you don´t bring Javik every other dquadmate says something about Athame looking like a prothean and the interesting conclusions when Liara explains it.

[MGW7]

they took Asari biotics, and made them stronger, there is a reason why no other species average can match an average Asari soldier, let alone a matriarch.

[DarthLaxian]

It's definitely not genetic because the whole point is that eezo is present in our brain and when subjected to the bioelectric energy generated by our nervous system, it creates ME fields. This means you need eezo which is not a protein and therefore cannot be encoded in DNA.

That said the codex indicates that eezo, when present inside the body, is a carcinogenic and therefore likely foster mutation. This mutation, which would likely be random - may be passed on to offspring but not cause biotic abilities.

However, biotics, while not genetic, may still be hereditary. I could imagine a scenario where part of the eezo within the biotic mother is transferred to the child in the womb. The child may then develop biotic abilities although I'd suspect that they would weaken from generation to generation.

 

All this also poses a problem with the Asari by the way. After more than 2000 years of space travel and colonization, lot's of Asari would have been born on other worlds  than Thessia (some of them 2nd, 3rd or more generations removed probably). So how is it that they are still all biotics if it weren't hereditary in some way. Unless they all get treatment starting in the womb. But then, Asari reproduction is so wacky, who knows what's going on with them.

 

Well, but it can be made genetic (the Asari are born as biotics (made this way by the Protheans who are (natural?) biotics themselves) and people can be (genetically) modified to be (like Miranda))

 

greetings LAX

[MrFob]

I really don't know how much easier I can say this but DNA only generates proteins out of amino acids through the processes called transcription and translation.

 

Mass effect fields cannot be generated without element zero.

 

Generating a biotic just by altering the DNA (of any life form that has DNA) without having an external source for eezo is like saying that you can magically make eezo out of egg white. => It doesn't make sense.

[Reorte]

I think it's reasonable to assume that there's no way of creating mass effect fields without eezo, so all asari have eezo in them. Eezo is not something that can be produced by a body, any more than iron or carbon can. The body gains what it needs through food and drink. It's not really accurate to think of that as "exposure" for the asari any more than it is to say that we grow our bones from exposure to calcium. We just need calcium in our diet in order to grow our bones. It seems reasonable that the same is true of the asari and eezo, so the supplement theory for colony worlds also makes sense. It's entirely possible that eezo is an essential part of asari food, just like all the iron and calcium and carbon and everything else in our diet.