17 réponses à ce sujet

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Really my only wants are to be a human and have cass in the party. Any advice as far as party set up goes? I'm torn between artificer archer (again >.>''') or Necro/rift Mage. I'll be doing Champions of the Just by the by. How does Cass, Vivienne, and Sera as a party sound? I like having a rogue, warrior and, mage in my party at all times so I could dump Sera if I'm a rogue and vivs if I'm a mage (why would anyone dump the death machine of death?)

[Cydh]

I found running two sword and shield warriors and two "whatevers" very enjoyable on my first Nightmare playthrough: you don't need to ever enter tactical mode, it all automagically works, and you sort of "bond" with Cassandra while you're at it.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

I found running two sword and shield warriors and two "whatevers" very enjoyable on my first Nightmare playthrough: you don't need to ever enter tactical mode, it all automagically works, and you sort of "bond" with Cassandra while you're at it.

How do you never enter tac mode? I have to enter tac on hard with one sword and sheild because lol AI using shield wall.
Aside from repositioning on dragons of course.

[Cydh]

How do you never enter tac mode? I have to enter tac on hard with one sword and sheild because lol AI using shield wall.
Aside from repositioning on dragons of course.

 

When you play sword and shield, you give up some damage for total control over the battlefield, who's standing, who's stunned, who's on the ground, who should die first, who is under attack etc. You don't need tactical mode, because you have half of the tactical mode built in within your abilities already. The second sword and shield warrior in the party helps filling the blanks while you're learning, by taking some of the heat off of your own character.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

When you play sword and shield, you give up some damage for total control over the battlefield, who's standing, who's stunned, who's on the ground, who should die first, who is under attack etc. You don't need tactical mode, because you have half of the tactical mode built in within your abilities already. The second sword and shield warrior in the party helps filling the blanks while you're learning, by taking some of the heat off of your own character.

Is it bad that I have no idea what your talking about?
Edit: I know what you mean I just meant I've never felt or seen that at all.

[capn233]

AI does an ok job with Shield Wall if it is enabled.  They don't seem to ever block pop up attacks from under their feet though, which is not surprising.  I am not sure the AI sees practically any attack aimed at the ground under them except for mines and using Evade, Roll, or Fade Step.

 

I am not sure what to recommend.  I hadn't gotten around to actually playing a sword and board inquisitor until just this week.  It is ok.  If you concentrate on blocking with shield wall at the right times, you practically won't go down.  The disadvantage is less damage output than you would have with 2 rogues.  And with the one tank, 3 ranged formula I think squad management is a little simpler really.

 

In any case, I would simply predict that you play a class and specialization you haven't played before as that will probably make the game the most interesting.

[PapaCharlie9]

Really my only wants are to be a human and have cass in the party. Any advice as far as party set up goes? I'm torn between artificer archer (again >.>''') or Necro/rift Mage. I'll be doing Champions of the Just by the by. How does Cass, Vivienne, and Sera as a party sound? I like having a rogue, warrior and, mage in my party at all times so I could dump Sera if I'm a rogue and vivs if I'm a mage (why would anyone dump the death machine of death?)

What do you want to get out of a canon PT? Is it more about the story or more about dominating the battle field?

Rift Mage would make the most sense with respect to story and has the side benefit of being a good combat class and immune from any impact of Solas being unavailable for DLC.

Some options. Asterisks means I've run the specified party for a significant part of at least one PT.

All of the following assume Rift Mage IQ and Cass S&S Templar.

1. Sera (Tempest Archer) and 2H Reaver Iron Bull* - IB is arguably too squishy, but worth it for the Sera vs. IB banter. BTW, this was the party composition for most of my first PT.

2. Sera (Tempest Archer) and Varric (Artificer Archer) - Cass tanks and everyone else range attacks, Varric vs. Cass banter is pretty good. Downside, you must upgrade Bianca.

3. Varric (Artificer Archer) and Dorian (Pyro/Necro)* - this is more combat oriented but has the downside that you have to pay attention to upgrading Bianca, but very effective in combat after mid level.

4. Blackwall (2H or S&S Champion) and Cole (Assassin Archer) - after mid level, your IQ can stand back and watch while everyone else clears the battle field. If your IQ also builds out Pyro to Fire Mine, this may be the strongest combat party of this list.

Cole & Solas makes better banter, but I'm excluding Solas because I'm recommending IQ Rift Mage and because he exits at the end of the main quest.

I'd rule out Vivienne regardless of which IQ class you pick because, 1) ick, she's Vivienne, and 2) it's more fun to control KE than have KE on AI. Of the three mage class companion's, I think Vivienne is weakest on 100% AI control, unless you only use the KE passives and spec her out as a Pyro/Lightning mage.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

What do you want to get out of a canon PT? Is it more about the story or more about dominating the battle field?

Rift Mage would make the most sense with respect to story and has the side benefit of being a good combat class and immune from any impact of Solas being unavailable for DLC.

Some options. Asterisks means I've run the specified party for a significant part of at least one PT.

All of the following assume Rift Mage IQ and Cass S&S Templar.

1. Sera (Tempest Archer) and 2H Reaver Iron Bull* - IB is arguably too squishy, but worth it for the Sera vs. IB banter. BTW, this was the party composition for most of my first PT.

2. Sera (Tempest Archer) and Varric (Artificer Archer) - Cass tanks and everyone else range attacks, Varric vs. Cass banter is pretty good. Downside, you must upgrade Bianca.

3. Varric (Artificer Archer) and Dorian (Pyro/Necro)* - this is more combat oriented but has the downside that you have to pay attention to upgrading Bianca, but very effective in combat after mid level.

4. Blackwall (2H or S&S Champion) and Cole (Assassin Archer) - after mid level, your IQ can stand back and watch while everyone else clears the battle field. If your IQ also builds out Pyro to Fire Mine, this may be the strongest combat party of this list.

Cole & Solas makes better banter, but I'm excluding Solas because I'm recommending IQ Rift Mage and because he exits at the end of the main quest.

I'd rule out Vivienne regardless of which IQ class you pick because, 1) ick, she's Vivienne, and 2) it's more fun to control KE than have KE on AI. Of the three mage class companion's, I think Vivienne is weakest on 100% AI control, unless you only use the KE passives and spec her out as a Pyro/Lightning mage.

I kinda like vivs though... >.>''' I like the flawed characters <.<'''
Aside from that how do you upgrade bianca generally? And is AI KE that bad? What if I just ran her as pyro/lightning with the passives? Considering spirit blade seems to be a bit bugged for me that was what I was gonna do anyway. If I'm running a mage I'd like to bring her to, at least,  Wicked eyes and Wicked hearts because it makes getting approval easier. (IIRC to human mages you can still get the bonus from the top choice but only if you bring her)
I'm assuming that having a rift mage is best for first time nightmare playthroughs ESPECIALLY for JoH, no?
I'd probably bring Sera and Varric. I've yet to bring either of them along.
Edit: Oh look ability changes due to a new patch.

Modifié par AnUnculturedLittlePotato, 03 septembre 2015 - 07:05 .

[PapaCharlie9]

I kinda like vivs though... >.>''' I like the flawed characters <.<'''
Aside from that how do you upgrade bianca generally? And is AI KE that bad? What if I just ran her as pyro/lightning with the passives? Considering spirit blade seems to be a bit bugged for me that was what I was gonna do anyway. If I'm running a mage I'd like to bring her to, at least,  Wicked eyes and Wicked hearts because it makes getting approval easier. (IIRC to human mages you can still get the bonus from the top choice but only if you bring her)
I'm assuming that having a rift mage is best for first time nightmare playthroughs ESPECIALLY for JoH, no?
I'd probably bring Sera and Varric. I've yet to bring either of them along.
Edit: Oh look ability changes due to a new patch.

If I could mute Viv's banter I guess I could tolerate her ...

 

Bianca requires specific upgrades/schematics -- it's not a bow and it's not a dagger, it's a separate type. Since there are fewer of those, compared to bow and dagger stuff, you end up a bit more frustrated in the loot lottery. Or, you have to spend time on gathering the good Bianca upgrade loot items or schematics, time you could be spending farming high tier everything that benefits all party members, not just Varric. I find that distracting. On the plus side, you get some good Bianca upgrades/schems as a reward for some quests you end up wanting to do anyway.

 

So here's the problem with respecing Viv to be passives + Pyro/Lightning vs other mages. You can do the same thing with Dorian or Solas, but with them, you also get their more useful active skills. What do you get with Viv? Next to nothing.

[ApostleinTriumph]

- Cass or Blackwall as Tank(Sword and Shield). I prefer Cass in dragon battles for her passive which boosts party defence (and her awesome focus ability that is rally) and Blackwall for the rest. Although for the 2nd half of my playthrough I exclusively used Cassandra as tank, I ran Blackwall for first half).

 

- An archer rogue for DPS. Either you or Sera/Varric works fine.

 

- A mage. Solas for extra CC and weakening, Vivienne for strong defensive barriers, and Dorian for AOE dmg and some crowd control (also synergizes well with the rogue passive which gives auto crit on panicked enemies)

 

- A Melee DPS. Either Cole or Iron Bull will do fine.

 

You can swap in/out of any of these roles, I think this setup works pretty good.

 

- Make sure you collect necessary herbs to upgrade potions. They are really a lifesaver, especially against battles where resistances or extra regen shines (like dragon battles or boss fights)

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

If I could mute Viv's banter I guess I could tolerate her ...

 

Bianca requires specific upgrades/schematics -- it's not a bow and it's not a dagger, it's a separate type. Since there are fewer of those, compared to bow and dagger stuff, you end up a bit more frustrated in the loot lottery. Or, you have to spend time on gathering the good Bianca upgrade loot items or schematics, time you could be spending farming high tier everything that benefits all party members, not just Varric. I find that distracting. On the plus side, you get some good Bianca upgrades/schems as a reward for some quests you end up wanting to do anyway.

 

So here's the problem with respecing Viv to be passives + Pyro/Lightning vs other mages. You can do the same thing with Dorian or Solas, but with them, you also get their more useful active skills. What do you get with Viv? Next to nothing.

Bianca's arms and aiming module right? Does bianca in and of itself get boosted as you get stronger?
I guess with vivienne you get more powerful barriers? I would have said amazing barrier and guard destruction before the patch but that got changed.
How should I level out Sera and Varric? I find the AI doesn't know how to wombo combo right so getting things like ele mines + might not be the best plan.

[PapaCharlie9]

Bianca's arms and aiming module right? Does bianca in and of itself get boosted as you get stronger?

No! That is exactly the problem. Unless you keep up with upgrading it, Varric falls behind in terms of damage output, relative to other rogues that you upgrade with loot or general crafting.

Of course, the same can be said of any character, you have to keep up with upgrades, but as noted, keeping Bianca upgraded takes a bit more time and attention than random rogue loot.

And to give an example of the earlier point I made: suppose you run all of your rogues as Archer. If you pick up a good bow schematic, that schem benefits both Cole and Sera, since you can make a good bow for either one. Heck, you can make slightly different Masterworks for each and have two bows in your arsenal for the price of one schem. But that schem does not benefit Varric at all. Conversely, if you find a good Bianca schematic, that doesn't benefit Sera or Cole at all. See what I mean?

Now again that could be said if your run Cole as DW and Sera as Archer, no cross equipment benefit. But dagger and bow schems and upgrades seem to be more plentiful (though Maker knows I seem to roll a lot of Bianca stuff when I'm not running Varric!) so even though you don't have cross-benefit, you still don't spend as much time worrying about it.
 

I guess with vivienne you get more powerful barriers? I would have said amazing barrier and guard destruction before the patch but that got changed.
How should I level out Sera and Varric? I find the AI doesn't know how to wombo combo right so getting things like ele mines + might not be the best plan.

I don't know what you mean by "level out". I'm not arguing against using Varric. All I'm saying is that Varric comes with some overhead. He's high maintenance, but he's worth it. If you aren't prepared to deal with that high maintenance, don't take Varric.

[coldwetn0se]

The "Golden Nug" should help with the Bianca Schematics problem. If you have a character that has completed the game, load them up to activate the Golden Nug. Then when you start your new Nightmare run, you can have the PC sync with the Golden bunny-pig, located in Haven near the horse stall. And if you have "The Descent", Varric's second love (or is it first ) gets further schematic help.

Bianca has three slots for upgrades: Aiming, Grip, and Arms.

Hmmm.....sounds like I am pushing for Varric to be added to your team. heh!

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

The "Golden Nug" should help with the Bianca Schematics problem. If you have a character that has completed the game, load them up to activate the Golden Nug. Then when you start your new Nightmare run, you can have the PC sync with the Golden bunny-pig, located in Haven near the horse stall. And if you have "The Descent", Varric's second love (or is it first ) gets further schematic help.

Bianca has three slots for upgrades: Aiming, Grip, and Arms.

Hmmm.....sounds like I am pushing for Varric to be added to your team. heh!

I could also make tier 3/4 schematics on my whole party.
I may or may not have already made a T3 staff

 

I don't know what you mean by "level out". I'm not arguing against using Varric. All I'm saying is that Varric comes with some overhead. He's high maintenance, but he's worth it. If you aren't prepared to deal with that high maintenance, don't take Varric.

By level out I meant what skills should I grab. I know the AI is awful with some skills.
I'd probably wana take Sera actually so advice on her would be useful as well. That would leave varric and blackwall for my dwarf and would finally mean I've used everyone.

[PapaCharlie9]

Did you settle on what the IQ class was going to be? Mage, right?

 

If so and IMO (which is based on pre-Patch 10 wisdom, so YMMV), leave Sera an Archer and avoid Subterfuge skills. I like this build pre-Skyhold:

 

I prioritize getting Pincushion as early as possible, over other active skills

 

1 - Archery/First Blood

2 - Archery/Explosive Shot

3 - Archery/Pincushion

 

Then next is kind of your choice, you can either go for Leaping Shot (+2 points) or take Long Shot immediately (+1) and then go for Sabotage/Poison Weapons. In this case we'll go with Long Shot first. You do need Leaping Shot to make up for not taking Subterfuge/Evade.

 

4 - Archery/Long Shot

5 - Sabotage/Poison Weapons

6 - Archery/Death From Above - pretty useless, but required to get

7 - Archery/Leaping Shot

 

This is a perfectly acceptable build to go to Champions of the Just/Hushed Whispers with. It helps if you go to the Storm Coast and pick up the Bane of Red Crossing bow (base damage 82-84, Level 8 requirement) beforehand. You could shuffle around the order and get Leaping Shot first if you want to go at a lower level. If you do go earlier, make sure you have Sera carry Bee Grenades, as high as you can upgrade them.

 

For the next couple of skill points its your choice of what you want to upgrade of the actives you already have, hard to go wrong.

 

Once you have Skyhold and have your own specialization and Sera has Tempest skills available, buy a respec amulet and dump most of your points into Tempest. I tend to take these 7 at a minimum: Flask of Frost, Flask of Fire, Flaskmaster, Fury of the Storm, Thousand Cuts, Killer's Alchemy and Flask of Lightning. Then spend whatever is left on Archery and Sabotage, in the order listed. If you want to save 2 points for more Archery skills, you can drop Flask of Frost and Flaskmaster and get them after you've filled out your Archery skills. You should upgrade Flask of Fire and Flask of Lightning as soon as possible (though not sure that is still true as of Patch 10, wrt FoL).

 

That's my typical build for Sera as a Tempest Archer. Give her high base damage bows and tons of Dex and Crit Chance upgrades, and she'll soon be the highest damage dealer you've got, unless you have a DW Assassin. 

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

I believe I've settled on artificer archer but necro actually looks appealing now. Rift mages shock/weaken bug is looking mighty painful and I COULD go necro or just bring dorian and drop Varric or bring vivs and spec her for maximum barrier and CC(And resurgence. I don't wana find out what flask of lightning + haste does because it sounds like it'd glitch. Or be reminisce of the haste + bow glitch in origins.) leaving bianca for another day. Not sure which of those 2 are the better choice.

Thanks for the advice on Sera though ^-^ Tempest looks fun

Modifié par AnUnculturedLittlePotato, 05 septembre 2015 - 08:20 .

[sunnydxmen]

At least have one tank unless you are one or a knight enchanter.

[ottffsse]

Tank is helpful for your rogues but a well designed necro with heal or rift can tank/ cc no problem.

Yeah and with the fix you can get walking bomb to crit for 3,5 to 4k spirit damage in a 5m radius now maybe more and spread if you min max so lol @ spirit blade / fade cloak. Well fade cloak is still great skill.