456 réponses à ce sujet

[Felis Menari]

All three KE spells require close melee range. So no, the melee mage is still very much alive.

BTW this thread has officially derailed into a KE whine fest. We should line up on opposite sides and throw outrageous claims about exaggerated game mechanics at each other.

What I meant by melee mage is having effective melee-oriented skills, which the primary one had been unnecessarily altered in significant and undesirable ways. And bear in mind, I did say "in a way", the melee mage is dead. Meaning, I don't fully believe that to be the case (context!).

[Bigdawg13]

Like that one high school exercise about bullying like every kid in the US goes through? About crossing the line or whatever?
Except less sarcastic understanding and more literal mud slinging?

Yes...yes!!! *maniacal laughter*

*EDIT* That school exercise must be new. We just settled things the old fashioned way with fists, a game of chicken, escalating pranks, stink bombs, or starting rumors.

[Dabrikishaw]

All flaming aside, I'm fine with the adjustment to Spirit Blade as well now. I'm a PS3 player so the change doesn't affect me yet anyway. On next gen if I wanted to I could still spam it for Clean Burn's effect, but I've decided to just drop the skill wholesale when I move to PlayStation 4. I'm not whining, I have as much a right to not use Spirit Blade as I do not to use Walking Bomb, The Knight-Enchanter is still plenty capable at melee range.

[Aulis Vaara]

All flaming aside, I'm fine with the adjustment to Spirit Blade as well now. I'm a PS3 player so the change doesn't affect me yet anyway. On next gen if I wanted to I could still spam it for Clean Burn's effect, but I've decided to just drop the skill wholesale. I'm not whining, I have as much a right to not use Spirit Blade as I do not to use Walking Bomb, The Knight-Enchanter is still plenty capable at melee range.

You're fine with this change, yet you're dropping the skill altogether... that does not sound like you're fine with it at all. Don't let others bully you into saying you're fine with something when you're not.

[Dabrikishaw]

You're fine with this change, yet you're dropping the skill altogether... that does not sound like you're fine with it at all. Don't let others bully you into saying you're fine with something when you're not.

I'm not arguing against the change, but I don't have to use the skill if I don't want to. I never did. 

 

And it's certainly not because I feel bullied by anyone here. If I really thought anyone here was that bad, I wouldn't be posting on this part of the forum to interact with them. 

[Aulis Vaara]

But you're still dropping the skill because of the change. I think that's argument against it enough. But that's just me.

[Dabrikishaw]

I have no desire to argue about the adjustment. There's no reason to. When I say I'm fine with the change that also means I accept that it happened and that I accept the reasons for it happening. Nothing's stopping me from going back to Spirit Blade when I upgrade to to a PlayStation 4, for any reason.

[PapaCharlie9]

I just did some solo KE SB testing, Level 19 on Nightmare. Emerald Graves Bronto as target, single and in pairs. They're good as test subjects since they regen guard, have huge armor and health but relatively weak attacks. They also reliably spawn near the Chateau d'Onterre, which is near a camp.

 

Alternative attacks in descending order of charge rate (guesstimate, I didn't actually stopwatch this stuff):

 

- Auto-attacks

- Energy Barrage (pulls into first place if the target is melee distance, otherwise flight time of shots cuts into effective rate)

- Chain Lightning (even better than EB when multiple targets in range)

- Immolate (upgraded)

- Frost step (might be better against a target that isn't buffed against cold)

- Fade Cloak with successful Decloaking Blast

 

The last one was really the only surprise. Even when I managed to blast a pair of Brontos for double damage, it still only generated 3 to 6 in charge.

 

Immolate is also a bit of a disappointment. With the upgrade it is recastable quickly for a relatively fast casting rate, but it doesn't generate very much charge, only teens against a single Bronto.

 

As a final test, I took on a pair of Brontos without any recharging attacks. I just spammed SB. It took forever and I had to recast Barrier on myself several times, but I did manage to defeat both of them, despite their guard regen. I happened to have a fire staff so I couldn't do a fair auto-attack comparison, but it felt like about twice as long as doing only auto-attacks would have taken, give or take.

[Felis Menari]

Less than five charges per hit? You've gotta be kidding. It's five charges minimum for each hit in MP. With Amplified Blade, it's ten.

[ApostleinTriumph]

Erm, does anyone know how to make the change work for Vivienne? On one of my characters, she has the two upgrade version of SB, but on my last playthrough, she has the old upgrade. I tried to respec her, it did not work. What is going on?

[BigBrolly]

Hey, can anyone speak to the changes to artificer? I'm rolling one soon and want to know what to expect

[devSin]

Erm, does anyone know how to make the change work for Vivienne? On one of my characters, she has the two upgrade version of SB, but on my last playthrough, she has the old upgrade. I tried to respec her, it did not work. What is going on?

The ability to toggle between upgrades isn't working.

It may show up for characters who had purchased the upgrades before the patch, but it eventually disappears (and there doesn't seem to be any way to get it back).

Maybe they'll fix it in a future patch. For now, it's probably best to just not worry about it.

[PapaCharlie9]

Saw an interesting discussion and screenshots of the description of MoD here (thanks YourFunnyUncle, Melbella):

http://forum.bioware...7#entry19649990

 

If the new description is to be believed, it's best not to buy the upgrade for the skill! If you don't upgrade, you can still manually trigger for 100% stored damage (instead of 50%). 

 

That's assuming the stated upgrade of only +4 seconds on top of 12 is correct, which seems unlikely. Unless you routinely back-load your damage, this seems more like a downgrade than upgrade.

 

Consider an artificial case of constant stored damage, where every second stores 100 points of damage. Compare triggering the non-upgraded MoD with letting the upgraded MoD go the full 16 seconds. Where is the break-even point? 8 seconds (800), well within the 12 seconds of the non-upgraded skill. So under the assumption of a constant rate of stored damage, as long as you can trigger after 8 seconds but before 12 seconds has elapsed, your bonus damage will be higher than the highest possible from the upgrade.

 

But damage doesn't get stored at a constant rate under normal conditions. Usually, damage is front-loaded, meaning, you tend to do more damage in the first half of the duration than in the second half. That being the case, there may be no break-even point. If you do 4000 points of damage in the first second and nothing for the next 15, the best the upgrade can do is 2000 points. Whereas with the non-upgraded version, you can trigger at any point from the 2 second to 11 second mark and get the full 4000.

 

Stated another way, in order to be worthwhile, the upgrade has to add enough duration to make up for the fact that you only get 50% of the stored damage, long enough so that whatever front-loaded damage you do can be done again. I don't think 4 seconds fits that requirement.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Hey, can anyone speak to the changes to artificer? I'm rolling one soon and want to know what to expect

I'm also curious. From what I've seen on the boards there's some unknown trigger that creates a super charged ele mines that does massive damage. No one seems to know what that trigger is however it's apparently noticeable on the action bar.

Spike trap is supposed to have 2 upgrades you choose from either a larger AOE or a bleed effect. No one seems to be able to confirm this aside from a few peeps and as with all the other triggers it's bugged.

[devSin]

Spike trap is supposed to have 2 upgrades you choose from either a larger AOE or a bleed effect. No one seems to be able to confirm this aside from a few peeps and as with all the other triggers it's bugged.

I got it on Varric.

There's Pyrotechnics (a 4-meter AoE) and the one that applies bleed for 5 seconds (this is what he uses by default in my game).

I was able to toggle it once, and they both seem to work. It's just that the toggles are currently screwed up.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

I got it on Varric.

There's Pyrotechnics (a 4-meter AoE) and the one that applies bleed for 5 seconds (this is what he uses by default in my game).

I was able to toggle it once, and they both seem to work. It's just that the toggles are currently screwed up.

Can you see if the bleed is a caltrops spawn of if it's a minor explosion that bleeds.
Basically does it put something on the ground and causes a bleed or does it just cause a bleed to things right there?

[devSin]

Can you see if the bleed is a caltrops spawn of if it's a minor explosion that bleeds.
Basically does it put something on the ground and causes a bleed or does it just cause a bleed to things right there?

It was definitely a spike trap trigger (he didn't just drop caltrops), and I'm pretty sure it still launched the target. I can try messing around with it some more later, but I'm fairly sure it works like it says (you just put the spike trap down, and the enemy that triggers it gets hit with a bleed on top of the normal effect).

There's also floating text for the bleed status that it applies, so it should be easy to tell which one is getting set (the AoE won't cause bleeding).

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

I'll check it out sometime if nobody else gets to it first. It was definitely a spike trap trigger (he didn't just drop caltrops), and I'm pretty sure it still launched the target.

There's also floating text for the bleed status that it applies, so it should be easy to tell which one is getting set (the AoE won't cause bleeding).

Right I meant that I was wondering if that just spawns a caltrops like effect (persistent AOE) and therefore people can be dragged over to get the bleed again or if it only slapped the bleed on people who got hit with the explosion.

Edit: Gonna hop on my artificer quizzy to see if I can toggle it.

Modifié par AnUnculturedLittlePotato, 06 septembre 2015 - 02:58 .

[devSin]

Right I meant that I was wondering if that just spawns a caltrops like effect (persistent AOE) and therefore people can be dragged over to get the bleed again or if it only slapped the bleed on people who got hit with the explosion.

I was only testing it briefly, so I didn't pay too close attention to the aftermath. The trap itself is still once and done, but I can't say for sure right now if it leaves caltrops on the ground or just applies bleed directly (I believe it's going to be the latter).

[AVPen]

Saw an interesting discussion and screenshots of the description of MoD here (thanks YourFunnyUncle, Melbella):

http://forum.bioware...7#entry19649990

 

If the new description is to be believed, it's best not to buy the upgrade for the skill! If you don't upgrade, you can still manually trigger for 100% stored damage (instead of 50%). 

 

That's assuming the stated upgrade of only +4 seconds on top of 12 is correct, which seems unlikely. Unless you routinely back-load your damage, this seems more like a downgrade than upgrade.

*Snip

I can confirm all of that after having played around with the new patch update all day yesterday and today with my assassin rogue - you generally can achieve.more damage without the Lasting Mark upgrade and just manually detonating the Mark yourself.

 

However, there's another issue with the new Lasting Mark upgrade..... it doesn't freaking work at all   with Lasting Mark upgraded, Mark of Death still detonates itself after only 8 seconds, not the 12 seconds that it's suppose to be.

[GoatChicken007]

 Line In The Sand for Champions now forces you to stay in one place (with the rest of the "warriors") when you activate it. Maybe that's how it was before, or I'm doing something wrong, but oh well. It's less effective now, I think. 

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

I can confirm ele mines can sometimes spawn a large single mine. It just did a 5k hit on the ice giant WITH ICE and now it's set to fire. You can tell when because it'll change from the normal icon to a blue icy one then a red fiery one

Pic of it in fire state below (I have no idea how to upload pics ;~;
http://imgur.com/927SE3d

Edit: Added clarification about the power of the single mine

Edit Edit they were both crits now that i think about it. The fire mine did 10k to the ice giant in JoH

Edit Edit Edit: After some more testing it may be timer based? It also seems every ice mine comes with a fire mine.

Modifié par AnUnculturedLittlePotato, 06 septembre 2015 - 04:33 .

[Mordray Darkblood]

Please post a screenshot when you can, this is one of the many mysteries/bugs of the patch.

http://imgur.com/vX8fJgo

 

The screenshot you were asking for...

[devSin]

Edit: Gonna hop on my artificer quizzy to see if I can toggle it.

I checked on Varric, in case it still doesn't show up for you.

There's Pyrotechnics (4-meter AoE) and Shrapnel (bleed for 10 seconds; "this effect stacks"). Both can be used while in stealth.

Also, the bleed trap is just a normal spike trap (no caltrops or anything). It just applies a bleed DoT when it goes off.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Huh. I don't see that at all.
With the barrier skill changes does anyone know if the KE barrier passives are party wide as well?