3 note(s)
I just thought I'd post something I made way back when.
Oh, and I am I the only one who would play a post-apocalyptic Thedas after he succeeds?
Nope. I want to see a post-veil world, where everyone has magic, and the dwarves have their connection to the Fade re-established, and Elves are immortal, and the Pantheon/Forgotten Ones have returned and are pissed off, and Spirits are everywhere, and the old power structures are all torn down and it's all chaos and a battle for survival. Bioware Pls.
Well...I've decided the only way I am going to get past these feels is to start a new run through, new character, romancing someone else, with a suspicious eye on this all-too-helpful apostate. I have to. I gotta just let Fen'Eira go, wave goodbye to her and let chase her wolf while I move on with a new character. It's just too heartbreaking otherwise.
Yes, I'm going to wait until the actual conclusion of the romance before starting up another game for Solas. Let's hope it isn't four years!
Nope. I want to see a post-veil world, where everyone has magic, and the dwarves have their connection to the Fade re-established, and Elves are immortal, and the Pantheon/Forgotten Ones have returned and are pissed off, and Spirits are everywhere, and the old power structures are all torn down and it's all chaos and a battle for survival. Bioware Pls.
That's what I meant. And I haven't played the DLC but someone says that everyone will be killed by veilfire? That's why I said "post-apocalyptic". I assume, however, that some mages won't be killed because of their strong connection to the Fade.
That's what I meant. And I haven't played the DLC but someone says that everyone will be killed by veilfire? That's why I said "post-apocalyptic". I assume, however, that some mages won't be killed because of their strong connection to the Fade.
I meant 'nope' as in 'nope you're not the only one'. Sorry, I wasn't clear 
That would be such a fascinating setting for DA5. Dunno about the veilfire thing (haven't played yet either), but I'm not of the opinion that everyone would die. I think lots will die in the resulting chaos, though, it would certainly be a cataclysmic event (worthy of someone with the Towers tarot card!) so 'post apocalyptic' makes sense
Edit: I'm out of likes, Tielis, but I like your posts!
I think Solas will do what he has to do regardless - but whoever is going to be our next protagonist will be able to stop the worst through the help of Inky. If that means killing him or making him responsible for what he did is probably just part of the big picture. He pretty much urges a friendly Inquisitor to prove him wrong yet again, prove that modern Thedas does not have to die. But I don't think we will be able to stop him tearing down the Veil. It's more going to be a case of "How can we save our own sorry butts?" than to downright stop Solas. After all, a cataclysmic event HAS to happen in order to change Thedas. What Solas does is wrong, but Thedas wouldn't change on its own, I believe. But the choice at the end HAS to have a meaning, if you consider that a romanced Lavellan does not get a final kiss if she declares to stop him.
I've been thinking of that slides at the end, about the elves leaving for parts unknown in huge numbers (and implied they've gone to join Fen'Harel's army) and I can't reconsile that fact with Solas planning on killing everyone from the modern world. to have them join his cause with this being the end goal would include so much lying and deceit from Solas' part and that somehow seems against his character.
Now, that could still be the case, but I wonder if what happens if maybe a litle more organic than that. The rumors of Fen'harel's doing, of a rebellion brewing, must be going through the elvish grapeline like wildfire. I wonder if the elves aren't leaving to "enroll" without Solas actually trying to get them to do so. So, he ends up with a huge number of people wanting to join his cause without knowing what the "cause" actually is, and Solas needing to decide WTF he will do with them. *shrugs* But, maybe I'm too optimistic and he actually doesn't care that he'll kill most of his followers.
I think Solas will do what he has to do regardless - but whoever is going to be our next protagonist will be able to stop the worst through the help of Inky. If that means killing him or making him responsible for what he did is probably just part of the big picture. He pretty much urges a friendly Inquisitor to prove him wrong yet again, prove that modern Thedas does not have to die. But I don't think we will be able to stop him tearing down the Veil. It's more going to be a case of "How can we save our own sorry butts?" than to downright stop Solas. After all, a cataclysmic event HAS to happen in order to change Thedas. What Solas does is wrong, but Thedas wouldn't change on its own, I believe. But the choice at the end HAS to have a meaning, if you consider that a romanced Lavellan does not get a final kiss if she declares to stop him.
what I would most like to see in DA4 is a dual protagonist game, actually. One one hand, you have a new protagonist, in Tevinter, with a new set of companions, and with Dorian as an NPC setting things in motion, that work on finding and stopping Solas (and whatever else happens, maybe that long-awaited slaves rebellion and some clashing with the Qun). And, on the other, we have or Inquisitor working on a higher-scale level to do the same thing. Maybe something like the war-table missions, since it seems like their fighting days might be over. And toward the end the two meet and we can have our moment of reckoning with Solas (and save the egg from himself!)
I've been thinking of that slides at the end, about the elves leaving for parts unknown in huge numbers (and implied they've gone to join Fen'Harel's army) and I can't reconsile that fact with Solas planning on killing everyone from the modern world. to have them join his cause with this being the end goal would include so much lying and deceit from Solas' part and that somehow seems against his character.
Now, that could still be the case, but I wonder if what happens if maybe a litle more organic than that. The rumors of Fen'harel's doing, of a rebellion brewing, must be going through the elvish grapeline like wildfire. I wonder if the elves aren't leaving to "enroll" without Solas actually trying to get them to do so. So, he ends up with a huge number of people wanting to join his cause without knowing what the "cause" actually is, and Solas needing to decide WTF he will do with them. *shrugs* But, maybe I'm too optimistic and he actually doesn't care that he'll kill most of his followers.
Well, he IS an "ends justify the means" kind of guy. Dude thought he could get help from an ancient magister and Coryfish would simply go "Poof!" after having fulfilled his purpose. If it brings him faster towards his goal, I could see Solas tricking a huge amount of elves to have a fighting chance. He has all of Thedas against him, he won't let that stop him.
what I would most like to see in DA4 is a dual protagonist game, actually. One one hand, you have a new protagonist, in Tevinter, with a new set of companions, and with Dorian as an NPC setting things in motion, that work on finding and stopping Solas (and whatever else happens, maybe that long-awaited slaves rebellion and some clashing with the Qun). And, on the other, we have or Inquisitor working on a higher-scale level to do the same thing. Maybe something like the war-table missions, since it seems like their fighting days might be over. And toward the end the two meet and we can have our moment of reckoning with Solas (and save the egg from himself!)
That would be amaaazing! I'm just not able to part from any one of my Inky's so soon. The Inquisitor's story isn't over, it has just gotten very personal. I really love the high chance of seeing Dorian again, btw. Love that guy. But dual protagonists would be awesome - even single chapters where you control Inky again. But really, if they WANTED to, they could start Inky at Lv 1 again and a prothesis for an arm. I wish that was the case, but I don't have high hopes, so I'm praying for a central supporting role.
Well, he IS an "ends justify the means" kind of guy. Dude thought he could get help from an ancient magister and Coryfish would simply go "Poof!" after having fulfilled his purpose. If it brings him faster towards his goal, I could see Solas tricking a huge amount of elves to have a fighting chance. He has all of Thedas against him, he won't let that stop him.
True that. Urgh, Solas. I can't wrap my mind around the fact it thinks repeating the same mistake, AGAIN, will somehow help. He might not have known the full consequences when he raised the veil the first time (and I believe him when he says the other options were worse), but now he knows better. Bringing the veil down now won't help any. Of of course, it looks like he plans to die in doing so so he won't actually even be there to see the fallout. Such a cop out
Elvhenan was rotten to the core, as beautiful as it was on the outside. Some of the codices in that library hint to blood sacrifices on a scale that boggles the mind for things as shallow as raising a statue to the might of Elgar'nan (that Eidolon mention?).
Now that I think about it, it seems the Tevinter Imperium copied the old elvhen civilization almost to the letter, but even their magisters only had 1/10th of the power the enavuris had.
Ok, enough rambling *sighs*. Lavellan will save you from yourself yet, dang egg.
I love, just love this SpiritCole dialogue.
'The veil isn't real. It's false, fake, fabricated to forbid. Isn't it wonderful? It means I belong here. Helping, healing the hurt. I'm not a wrong thing, a wreck, a ruin. I'm what I should be. *sighs* Solas understands.'
This is the line that makes me believe that lifting the veil won't be all bad - it means that good spirits like Cole, like Wisdom, like Faith (who inhabited Wynne and Evangealine) will have a place in the world again, won't be trapped in the Fade anymore. If the gentlest character in the game sees good in what Solas is trying to do and supports trying to save him, then I have to remain a little bit optimistic.
Also, does Solas explicitly say that everyone in this world is going to die, or just that 'this world is going to die'? Because the former is, well, pretty conclusive I guess (maybe? though I bet there'll still be a way around it), but the latter can be interpreted in different ways. After all, if he removes the veil so that the physical realm and the Fade are one and the same again, then technically the world as we know it is dead. Not necessarily everyone in it.
That would be amaaazing! I'm just not able to part from any one of my Inky's so soon. The Inquisitor's story isn't over, it has just gotten very personal. I really love the high chance of seeing Dorian again, btw. Love that guy. But dual protagonists would be awesome - even single chapters where you control Inky again. But really, if they WANTED to, they could start Inky at Lv 1 again and a prothesis for an arm. I wish that was the case, but I don't have high hopes, so I'm praying for a central supporting role.
I'm thinking my idea might actually be feasible. The fact that there was no option for the Quizzie to die and no option to keep Dorian at your side makes me think the both of them need to be where they are for the next game. The devs needed those two in place and couldn't get a world state that diverged on those two key points.
I love, just love this SpiritCole dialogue.
'The veil isn't real. It's false, fake, fabricated to forbid. Isn't it wonderful? It means I belong here. Helping, healing the hurt. I'm not a wrong thing, a wreck, a ruin. I'm what I should be. *sighs* Solas understands.'
This is the line that makes me believe that lifting the veil won't be all bad - it means that good spirits like Cole, like Wisdom, like Faith (who inhabited Wynne and Evangealine) will have a place in the world again, won't be trapped in the Fade anymore. If the gentlest character in the game sees good in what Solas is trying to do and supports trying to save him, then I have to remain a little bit optimistic.
Also, does Solas explicitly say that everyone in this world is going to die, or just that 'this world is going to die'? Because the former is, well, pretty conclusive I guess (maybe? though I bet there'll still be a way around it), but the latter can be interpreted in different ways. After all, if he removes the veil so that the physical realm and the Fade are one and the same again, then technically the world as we know it is dead. Not necessarily everyone in it.
I think he mentions that it will be overrun with Veilfire or something? It is pretty clear that everyone would die - he even admits that he is going to great lengths to make the last few years of modern Thedas' people as peaceful and harmless as possible. The Inquisitor asks why he would do that and he answers it is because he isn't like Corykitten and takes no joy in doing this. It's pretty much guilt nagging at him way too much and he does it to make his heart lighter. Ala "At least they died in peace. I didn't let them suffer. I'm not that bad after all. I'm not a monster."
Solas is a little confusing. He basically says both- I don't know if he actually knows if the world is going to be razed or not. But even if the shems survive the dropping of the veil, it is clear that his intention is for the elves to take over. So they would be destroying the world one way or the other.
I don't think Solas necessarily wants to bring the gods back specifically, it's just that they will return as an inevitable consequence of lifting the veil, because it's the veil that keeps them trapped. I think he wants to lift the veil for other reasons (personally, I think because the veil is harming the world and cuz Elves).
@Miss This or That - yeah the veilfire thing confuses me, because veilfire's primary use (in DAI anyway) isn't so much as a source of heat like regular fire, but of illumination (both light in the traditional sense and illuminating writing, runes etc). I dunno, it might be an 'everyone will die' scenario, but I think there's enough there that's still cryptic enough to not be able to draw conclusions quite yet.
Haha, that's what I'm hoping anyway since otherwise OMG THE HORROR!
I don't think Solas necessarily wants to bring the gods back specifically, it's just that they will return as an inevitable consequence of lifting the veil, because it's the veil that keeps them trapped. I think he wants to lift the veil for other reasons (personally, I think because the veil is harming the world).
@Miss This or That - yeah the veilfire thing confuses me, because veilfire's primary use (in DAI anyway) isn't so much as a source of heat like regular fire, but of illumination (both light in the traditional sense and illuminating writing, runes etc). I dunno, it might be an 'everyone will die' scenario, but I think there's enough there that's still cryptic enough to not be able to draw conclusions quite yet.
Haha, that's what I'm hoping anyway since otherwise OMG THE HORROR!
Well, that's the beauty of not knowing how Fen'Harel's "solution" will go wrong. Because you know it will.
The new Thedas could be anything. Tabula rasa -- new Age, new game franchise reboot. After all, reboots are all the rage these days.
@Tielis - YEP! I can totally see the Dragon Age wrapping up after the .. fifth game maybe? And the Age of Spirits/Elves/Titans/Weird **** beginning. Bring it on!
Edit: Still abandoned by my likes 
@Tielis - YEP! I can totally see the Dragon Age wrapping up after the .. fifth game maybe? And the Age of Spirits/Elves/Titans/Weird **** beginning. Bring it on!
Edit: Still abandoned by my likes
I'm still outta likes too. But 
for the Age of Weird Sh*t. Narrated by Cassandra Pentaghast
I'm still outta likes too. But
With so many disgusted snorts!
Am I the only person to think that it is reasonable for Solas to do what he does?
He explained it quite plainly already: the elves were magical to begin with. Losing the connection with the fade is what deteriorates the elves; hence the elves now have short lifespans and smaller, weaker bodies. That's probably also why when elves have children with other races, the children only have traits of the other races. What is to say that the elven race would not deteriorate further in the future? They were not well off after their deterioration, can they compete or even survive in the future world?
I think Solas is not only correcting "an old mistake", he is also trying to protect the entire elven race from possible demise, by creating the ultimate fertile ground for the elven people. It is like bring about a climate change. I don't think he intends to pick out the non-elves and slaughter them one by one, but in the post-fade world, elves would prevail, darwes would be ok too since they co-existed with the elves, no so sure about qunari. Would humans adapt well to that world? they probably wouldn't, or maybe they would, who knows. The world would not be destroyed, it would just change.
It is unfair to say that Solas is out of his mind for wanting to change the world. The Elvhen was his home, his family, his friends, and he loves them more than he does this human-dominated world. This is probably why so many elves joined him. They are fighting for a chance: even if they don't make it, their children may live in a world that's kinder and richer to them.
If aliens have invaded earth a thousand years ago and are living quite happily now, would you, as humans, truly drop the chance of turning the world back in your favor??
Am I the only person to think that it is reasonable for Solas to do what he does?
He explained it quite plainly already: the elves were magical to begin with. Losing the connection with the fade is what deteriorates the elves; hence the elves now have short lifespans and smaller, weaker bodies. That's probably also why when elves have children with other races, the children only have traits of the other races. What is to say that the elven race would not deteriorate further in the future? They were not well off after their deterioration, can they compete or even survive in the future world?
I think Solas is not only correcting "an old mistake", he is also trying to protect the entire elven race from possible demise, by creating the ultimate fertile ground for the elven people. It is like bring about a climate change. I don't think he intends to pick out the non-elves and slaughter them one by one, but in the post-fade world, elves would prevail, darwes would be ok too since they co-existed with the elves, no so sure about qunari. Would humans adapt well to that world? they probably wouldn't, or maybe they would, who knows. The world would not be destroyed, it would just change.
It is unfair to say that Solas is out of his mind for wanting to change the world. The Elvhen was his home, his family, his friends, and he loves them more than he does this human-dominated world. This is probably why so many elves joined him. They are fighting for a chance: even if they don't make it, their children may live in a world that's kinder and richer to them.
If aliens have invaded earth a thousand years ago and are living quite happily now, would you, as humans, truly drop the chance of turning the world back in your favor??
I'd be ok with change if bringing the veil down didn't have such catastrophic consequences. Although there is some room for interpretation, from what Solas says, his plan would probably cost million of people their lives, that including people of all races. if there is some way, over time, perhaps, to weaken and then dissipate the veil while giving people of all races time to adjust though, I'd be completely behind that. As it is though, the end can't justify the means to me, or my quizzie.
I'd be ok with change and bringing the veil didn't have such catastrophic consequences. although there is some room for interpretation, from what Solas says, his plan would cost million of people their lives, that including people of all races. if there is some way, over time, perhaps, to weaken and then dissipate the veil while giving people of all races time to adjust though, I'd be completely behind that. As it is though, the end can't justify the means to me, or my quizzie.
To summ up things said by different people (and a specific egg) and codex:
Demons existet in old Arlathan. They posed a threat, yet a threat like "a fastflowing river". They COULD harm you if you didn't know what to do about them. Yet somehow the old Elvhen seemed to have developed ways to keep themselves safe. I could imagine this as the reason for the mage- privileges: Strong mages keep you safe, you are bound to obey them.
The spirits drawn through the rifts are becoming demons because they are surprised and not used to the physical world. This leads to the conclusion, that when the whole Veil would vanish there would be a demon epidemic for one or two generations. Since most people in modern Thedas aren't mages (and even if they are they often don't know how to protect themselves from demons) this would result in a massacre. Few would survive the demons and the new world with new laws and dangers (I could really imagine something like holes in the ground, who just open up because they want to, just as Lyrium sometimes explodes just because it wants to).
Lets just forget about details like some really dangerous Tranquils suddenly becoming whole again.
All in all eggy is damn right about his plan killing most people. Yet I don't think that he would have to lie to his elven army to get them doing his dirty work. Imagine their situations: They have lived their whole lifes surpressed by Shems, who killed, murdered and raped as they pleased, only to care if the "rabbits" or "knifeears" could avenge themselves, but never worrying about real justice, like if they did the same thing to a human. All while they know that their ancestors ruled the world like gods. I know not a single person who wouldn't happily sacrifice their life in this circumstances if they thought that firstly they MIGHT survive and secondly they would help their whole race to rise to power again.
I really like the song "What have you done" by Within Temptation for the Solasmance as they have left us.
Am I the only person to think that it is reasonable for Solas to do what he does?
He explained it quite plainly already: the elves were magical to begin with. Losing the connection with the fade is what deteriorates the elves; hence the elves now have short lifespans and smaller, weaker bodies. That's probably also why when elves have children with other races, the children only have traits of the other races. What is to say that the elven race would not deteriorate further in the future? They were not well off after their deterioration, can they compete or even survive in the future world?
I think Solas is not only correcting "an old mistake", he is also trying to protect the entire elven race from possible demise, by creating the ultimate fertile ground for the elven people. It is like bring about a climate change. I don't think he intends to pick out the non-elves and slaughter them one by one, but in the post-fade world, elves would prevail, darwes would be ok too since they co-existed with the elves, no so sure about qunari. Would humans adapt well to that world? they probably wouldn't, or maybe they would, who knows. The world would not be destroyed, it would just change.
It is unfair to say that Solas is out of his mind for wanting to change the world. The Elvhen was his home, his family, his friends, and he loves them more than he does this human-dominated world. This is probably why so many elves joined him. They are fighting for a chance: even if they don't make it, their children may live in a world that's kinder and richer to them.
If aliens have invaded earth a thousand years ago and are living quite happily now, would you, as humans, truly drop the chance of turning the world back in your favor??
Of course, Solas explains himself quite well, and he is a very tragic character and I feel how torn apart he is as a player. He is full of the dread that gave him his name and he longs for the world that he lived in to exist again. He's, to put it simply, incredibly homesick. And he is my favourite character in a game of all time!
But: That does not make his choice right or something we should appreciate. What Solas sees is a 'world full of tranquil', where no one is a real person to begin with - at least until Inky proves him otherwise. I would not call him racist, rather, he simply dehumanises everyone that he meets because those people are far from what he once knew and because he cannot understand them, he thinks it is alright to leave them behind to restore what once was. Solas goes to sleep and wakes up thousands of years later, in a world where the elven gods are myths and legends, were elves have lost almost all of their history.
But that does not mean those (elven) people aren't worthy of living! Solas completely ignores the point that his world was just as corrupted - instead of Tevinter magisters, his world had immortal elves. Instead of elves enslaved my humans, the elves in his world were enslaved by their 'gods'. He thinks it is sad that dwarves have a severed connection to the Fade, but he fails to realise that all of those dwarves are still just living their lives and shaping history along the way.
The elven people of modern Thedas might be weak and just a tiny fragment of what they once were: But the stories of the Dread Wolf and the gods that he sealed away are in modern Thedas just that - stories. A religion that the Dalish try to preserve, but nothing more than a religion and history all the same. Solas fails to realise that the Dalish, however scattered and fragile they may be, still have a culture to hold onto - a culture that they shape themselves. Compare it to our culture: The Swastika/the symbol that it is based on has been shaped to mean something entire different in (parts of) our culture because of how Germany used it during the time of Hitler. You cannot say it is entirely the same situation as with the Dalish, but the fact remains that symbols and stories change over time. If the Dalish use the vallaslin to honor their gods, however f*cked up that might be for Solas, then he has no right to claim they are wrong in wearing them with pride - he can try to teach them, but it is their choice if they listen or not. Solas just woke up, sees something that he never wanted to see and wants to restore what once was - but he entirely fails to realise that he just slept through hundreds of years of history shaped by the people of MODERN FREAKING THEDAS, not his ancient elven clique.
I do think Solas has noble intentions - for, you know, his people. The people that he knew 'a few years ago', but those people don't exist anymore in the grant scheme of things. He cannot claim to save the elven people by dooming everyone else, not to mention that the current elves are just as alien to him as any other race. Solas doesn't want to slaughter everyone, but he firmly believes that his ends justify his means. In the end, modern Thedas isn't worth it in his eyes, even though the Inquisitor has stirred something within him that firmly believes it IS worth saving. It just isn't enough.
Solas wants to change the world because HE thinks it's the right thing to do. Does he actually take the time to ask the Dwarves, the Qunari, the Elves, the Humans? No. Because he doesn't even think they are people, as long as he looks at 'all of Thedas'. I'm pretty sure most of current Thedas would tell him to stick an egg up his butt for claiming to be the be all, end all. He says a god does not have to prove himself, but Solas is 100% trying to play god here.
He is a homesick person trying to right his wrongs by playing god.
And that isn't right.
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