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[Moondreamer01]

Something someone said in the Solas thread got me to thinking :

 

In the Redcliffe future, we know the veil has collapse and demons and spirits are free to roam. Yet, Solas tells us this world is an abomination and must never come to pass. Stilll, isn't it exactly what he's looking to do, now? What I wonder is : is the Solas from Redcliffe saying it's an abomination because the way Cory did it was the wrong way and all went wrong because of it.... or is it because, that future Solas is seeing the consequences of tearing the veil down and realizing how very badly (even worse than he thought?) things went.

 

Of course, present Solas has no knowledge of this future self, but that does bring some interesting questions...

[Looney]

@Miss This or That

 

One possible reason he seems to have no problems with destroying Modern Thedas could be the Blights. Does he know more than we do? Are the Blights bound to destroy the world anyway? Because I really could imagine the old Elvhen stopping the Blights with a snap of their fingers.

I still try to figure out why he is so pissed at the Wardens and their killing archdemons. There is this theory that archdemons are not really Tevinter gods, but old elven gods...

[AllThatJazz]

Am I the only person to think that it is reasonable for Solas to do what he does?

 

 

He explained it quite plainly already: the elves were magical to begin with. Losing the connection with the fade is what deteriorates the elves; hence the elves now have short lifespans and smaller, weaker bodies. That's probably also why when elves have children with other races, the children only have traits of the other races. What is to say that the elven race would not deteriorate further in the future? They were not well off after their deterioration, can they compete or even survive in the future world? 

 

I think Solas is not only correcting "an old mistake", he is also trying to protect the entire elven race from possible demise, by creating the ultimate fertile ground for the elven people. It is like bring about a climate change. I don't think he intends to pick out the non-elves and slaughter them one by one, but in the post-fade world, elves would prevail, darwes would be ok too since they co-existed with the elves, no so sure about qunari. Would humans adapt well to that world? they probably wouldn't, or maybe they would, who knows. The world would not be destroyed, it would just change.

 

It is unfair to say that Solas is out of his mind for wanting to change the world. The Elvhen was his home, his family, his friends, and he loves them more than he does this human-dominated world. This is probably why so many elves joined him. They are fighting for a chance: even if they don't make it, their children may live in a world that's kinder and richer to them.

 

If aliens have invaded earth a thousand years ago and are living quite happily now, would you, as humans, truly drop the chance of turning the world back in your favor??

Oh I totally believe he is being reasonable - from his point of view. And if the situation were reversed, and my Lavellan found herself in a strange new world where her friends were all dead and her people were enslaved/dying and the beauty and magic all seemed to have gone, she would probably be searching for the reset button too (edit: as she did during the mage quest in DAI).

 

But my Inquisitors (or most of them - there is one Lavellan who will happily die to see a resurgent Elvhen Empire crushing the shems) ultimately love this world, flawed as it is, and don't want it destroyed, particularly to try and bring back a past that will probably prove no better (the Elvhen leadership seemed just as horrible as the Tevinters are today etc, which is why Solas created the veil in the first place, to get rid of them).

 

I hope there's a way to convince Solas that trying to make this world better is preferable in the end to burning it all down and starting again, but the damn elf is nothing if not proud and stubborn. I particularly hope that there's a way to collapse the veil in a gentler way - so the magic etc still happens, but without all the wholesale bloodshed :/

[DragonRacer]

But is it entirely evil?

I know that question depends on how our own brain works but Solas already doomed hundreds of thousands of elves to death by creating the veil which stripped their immortality. That's a lot of blood on his hands. The blood of friends and people who depended on him. Now he wakes up and sees the life he's doomed them to, the poverty and slavery when they deserve so much more.

What's more blood going to do? The world isn't the way it should be. Mages being hunted for what everyone should be. There will always be war and death, whether it's him or someone else after him. All he sees is the destruction he caused, and like Lavellan can tell him after the temple of mythal, "I'll keep trying until I get it right." And the look of relief on his face that someone understands, sees how righting wrongs are important, means so much to him. She reaffirms his dedication to his cause. "I'll put things back the way they used to be." You can tell him.

Corypheus wanted to be a god, he only cared for the betrayal he felt.

Solas wants to set the world back to how it should be. Think of the future lives he'll save even as he possible kills how many more. No more Templar/Mage conflict which has brought Thedas to it's knees anyway and left it vulnerable to attack. How high and mighty will Tevinter be when all of their citizens become mages and they can no longer rule over.

How is what he plans to do any worse than what the humans have done to the elves for the past one thousand years?

Not saying I agree, and I'm terrible at making points like they are in my head, but I understand the why. Maybe in the wrong way, but he doesn't disappoint me at all.

 

Okay, I haven't caught up on the thread yet, but wanted to go ahead and reply to this.

 

I totally get it (don't agree necessarily, but get it). Everyone remember playing through "In Hushed Whispers", the mage quest in Redcliffe? And you end up time traveling to an alternate dimension where Cory won and everything is horrible? And you're desperate to fix things so this horrible potential future does not come to pass?

 

Yeah, that's sorta what Solas probably felt when he woke up and discovered he f*cked his whole race over.

[Moondreamer01]

@Looney

 

I think there's a very chance that the old gods are the imprisoned elvhen enavuris, yes. It seems they found a way to speak through the veil to some of the Tevinter magisters. I wonder if they also found a way to somehow affect the song through the blight to get the darkspawn to try to free them (or part of them, if like Mythal they can get wisps of their spirit/soul scattered around). But, when the darkspawn actually reach them, the contact with the blight corrupts them instead.

 

Now though, I'm still unsure what the blight's role is in all this. Some kind of Titan's curse?

[Miss This or That]

@Miss This or That

 

One possible reason he seems to have no problems with destroying Modern Thedas could be the Blights. Does he know more than we do? Are the Blights bound to destroy the world anyway? Because I really could imagine the old Elvhen stopping the Blights with a snap of their fingers.

I still try to figure out why he is so pissed at the Wardens and their killing archdemons. There is this theory that archdemons are not really Tevinter gods, but old elven gods...

 

I do think that he knows more than he lets us know, that's kind of his thing. Still: Shouldn't he be working with modern Thedas to stop the Blight if that was his ultimate goal? I am pretty sure that while modern Thedas is pretty 'blind' when it comes to the very powerful things that happen in the background, they still know more about what the Blight does and how it effects the world than Solas' old ancient friends ever could, because they lived with the constant fear of a Blight for hundreds of years. Solas himself might know a lot more than we do, but I doubt that his ancient friends, who often times lived secluded and kept away from the rest of the world would be more of a help than modern Thedas could be. Also, modern Thedas wants to Blights to stop, one way or another. His ancient friends pretty much don't give an egg about it/don't know about it/are just more invested in the way to be all high and mighty again. Not to mention that Solas wants to take the cowardly way out: "I restore what I once f*cked up because I cannot live with the consequences that I caused and I will die doing so. Woe is me."

[AllThatJazz]

I do think that he knows more than he lets us know, that's kind of his thing. Still: Shouldn't he be working with modern Thedas to stop the Blight if that was his ultimate goal? I am pretty sure that while modern Thedas is pretty 'blind' when it comes to the very powerful things that happen in the background, they still know more about what the Blight does and how it effects the world than Solas' old ancient friends ever could, because they lived with the constant fear of a Blight for hundreds of years. Solas himself might know a lot more than we do, but I doubt that his ancient friends, who often times lived secluded and kept away from the rest of the world would be more of a help than modern Thedas could be. Also, modern Thedas wants to Blights to stop, one way or another. His ancient friends pretty much don't give an egg about it/don't know about it/are just more invested in the way to be all high and mighty again. Not to mention that Solas wants to take the cowardly way out: "I restore what I once f*cked up because I cannot live with the consequences that I caused and I will die doing so. Woe is me."

Yeah, this is partly why I want the opportunity to let him live once we stop him or whatever - bearing the burden of his guilt and living with the consequences of his actions would be a braver, wiser, better (and harsher) thing to do than just killing everything and then copping out by dying himself. 

[Miss This or That]

Okay, I haven't caught up on the thread yet, but wanted to go ahead and reply to this.

 

I totally get it (don't agree necessarily, but get it). Everyone remember playing through "In Hushed Whispers", the mage quest in Redcliffe? And you end up time traveling to an alternate dimension where Cory won and everything is horrible? And you're desperate to fix things so this horrible potential future does not come to pass?

 

Yeah, that's sorta what Solas probably felt when he woke up and discovered he f*cked his whole race over.

 

I think you can compare the two futures Solas/the Inquisitor experienced quite well. But it is one thing to stop an immediate threath and get transported one year into the future, versus correcting something that you caused while being aware of it (Inky couldn't potentially know they would get sucked into a time portal and 'wake up' one year later) and waking up a thousand years later, when history has already moved past what you ever knew. If Solas had dealt with his mistakes almost immediately after doing them, then he probably could have reversed the effect without dooming multiple cultures along the way. Also, Inky gets encouraged to make sure that this future never happens because this future is bad for everyone but ancient evil tevinter magisters, Solas pretty much says "On the one hand there are my people, and on the other hand there is this new world - and I am the sole person to decide which group of people lives." Inky also had the encouragement of pretty much all of Thedas in stopping the Breach, but Solas stands there alone and uses other elves to strenghten his own army. Uah, so much to think about!

[AutumnOracle]

I have a serious question.  Not sure I want the real answer though cause the beginnings of a headcannon are starting.  When I was on the path headed toward the Solas cutscene Cole chimes in with something along the lines of "He can't be far from her."

 

Anyone know if he says this to non-romance characters as well?  If so it's probably just an anchor reference that he can't be far from the anchor.  If not and it's just for the romanced...well like I said, I'm headcannoning.

[AllThatJazz]

I think you can compare the two futures Solas/the Inquisitor experienced quite well. But it is one thing to stop an immediate threath and get transported one year into the future, versus correcting something that you caused while being aware of it (Inky couldn't potentially know they would get sucked into a time portal and 'wake up' one year later) and waking up a thousand years later, when history has already moved past what you ever knew. If Solas had dealt with his mistakes almost immediately after doing them, then he probably could have reversed the effect without dooming multiple cultures along the way. Also, Inky gets encouraged to make sure that this future never happens because this future is bad for everyone but ancient evil tevinter magisters, Solas pretty much says "On the one hand there are my people, and on the other hand there is this new world - and I am the sole person to decide which group of people lives." Inky also had the encouragement of pretty much all of Thedas in stopping the Breach, but Solas stands there alone and uses other elves to strenghten his own army. Uah, so much to think about!

Though to Solas, I suppose it is almost immediate. It's so sad that he's only been awake for a year by the beginning of DAI - this time the year before, he was in Arlathan fighting the Pantheon with his fellow rebels, working on a plan to help people. Then all of a sudden its thousands of years later, the people he wanted to help are absolutely screwed and he's trapped in a (to him) nightmare of a world where everything is wrong and horrible. His head and heart belong to a past that no-one even remembers more than fragments of and yet to him are recent memory. GAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH FEELS.

 

He kind of reminds me of the way I headcanoned some of my Shepards during ME2, but on a much, muych grander scale. She's stuck where she was 2 years ago while everyone else has moved on.

[Miss This or That]

Though to Solas, I suppose it is almost immediate. It's so sad that he's only been awake for a year by the beginning of DAI - this time the year before, he was in Arlathan fighting the Pantheon with his fellow rebels, working on a plan to help people. Then all of a sudden its thousands of years later, the people he wanted to help are absolutely screwed and he's trapped in a (to him) nightmare of a world where everything is wrong and horrible. His head and heart belong to a past that no-one even remembers more than fragments of. GAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH FEELS.

 

He kind of reminds me of the way I headcanoned some of my Shepards during ME2, but on a much, muych grander scale. She's stuck where she was 2 years ago while everyone else has moved on.

 

That's what makes his character so sad and makes me love him so much! Of course, for him it IS almost immediate. But he is also a lover of the Fade and he watched the ancient battlefields and seems eager to learn more about modern Thedas' history. I can understand why he would rather prefer to just see this world as something that is wrong, though. He really IS stuck in a nightmare that he (seemingly) cannot escape. He is a wonderfully fleshed out character with a history that crosses centuries and I think that is really, really beautiful. Still, what he tries to do is wrong on a grand scale and while he is only trying to right his wrongs, he is also playing god along the way. He should hate that, but I really think he is just terribly homesick.

 

Also, you wake up and learn that you have become the big baddie of the complete elven culture.

THAT cannot be good for your ego, especially if you are named Pride.

[SnowPeaShooter]

his world was just as corrupted - instead of Tevinter magisters, his world had immortal elves. Instead of elves enslaved my humans, the elves in his world were enslaved by their 'gods'. He thinks it is sad that dwarves have a severed connection to the Fade, but he fails to realise that all of those dwarves are still just living their lives and shaping history along the way.

 

The elven people of modern Thedas might be weak and just a tiny fragment of what they once were: But the stories of the Dread Wolf and the gods that he sealed away are in modern Thedas just that - stories. A religion that the Dalish try to preserve, but nothing more than a religion and history all the same.he entirely fails to realise that he just slept through hundreds of years of history shaped by the people of MODERN FREAKING THEDAS, not his ancient elven clique.

 

I do think Solas has noble intentions - for, you know, his people. The people that he knew 'a few years ago', but those people don't exist anymore in the grant scheme of things. He cannot claim to save the elven people by dooming everyone else, not to mention that the current elves are just as alien to him as any other race. Solas doesn't want to slaughter everyone, but he firmly believes that his ends justify his means. In the end, modern Thedas isn't worth it in his eyes, even though the Inquisitor has stirred something within him that firmly believes it IS worth saving. It just isn't enough.

 

 He says a god does not have to prove himself, but Solas is 100% trying to play god here.

 

He is a homesick person trying to right his wrongs by playing god.

 

And that isn't right.

 

 

 

 

I think you are completely missing the point.

 

 

Did he say he wanted to restore the world exactly as it once was, with no changes at all, and so he could restore all the "gods", make slaves again, and proves himself as a god to everyone ???????!!!!!! No! All he said was to torn down the veil!

 

 

He saw the people of this world to be far removed ( and lesser) compared to his people. he is entitled to his opinion (one that has mostly changed), and I would not discuss it here. 

 

 

Did he showed a specific intention of going about and destroying other cultures, and shoving the Elvhen culture down people's throat to mold them into mindless slaves? No. He is of an inquiring mind. Even if he dislike other cultures he took the time to learn them. I think he is capable of showing the minimum courtesy and respect of letting other cultures be, if he succeeded. 

 

 

And regarding the change of the cultures. Here is a fact: Cultures change. Cultures change in respond to the environment. That happened in Elvhen, why can't it happen again with the current (elven) cultures? This is not trying to correct one sin with another. This is to change the environment so that something of fluid state can reshape itself. Even with the veil still intact, many elves are following Fen'harel. Mind you, Solas gave no orders. Are they not showing an intention to change already? Is the elven culture not changing already? And for the humans, have they not changed their culture drastically over the past thousand years? It's not that you give a culture time to grow, rather, cultures emerge in time. Even if the veil is torn down and all elves get to know the old way, does that mean they would be exactly the same as Solas remembered elves? I think not. The elves already brought about them so many new elements. The elvhen culture will change, and that is not something Solas can control, god or no god.

 

 

And Solas, of all the elves of his time, knows the best about the corruption of his world. Not just of his world, but with power and society in general. I don't think he intend to make himself a king to rule over the new world. He said only to torn down the veil. Frankly, I think doing that would not change a thing about the potential misery or corruption that existed throughout history. It will just be a world in a different form, one where the elves would become healthier and stronger. And I think that is all Solas wanted at this point: to create an environment where the elves are restored to their previous strength and therefore have an edge.

[Miss This or That]

I think you are completely missing the point.

 

 

Did he say he wanted to restore the world exactly as it once was, with no changes at all, and so he could restore all the "gods", make slaves again, and proves himself as a god to everyone ???????!!!!!! No! All he said was to torn down the veil!

 

 

He saw the people of this world to be far removed ( and lesser) compared to his people. he is entitled to his opinion (one that has mostly changed), and I would not discuss it here. 

 

 

Did he showed a specific intention of going about and destroying other cultures, and shoving the Elvhen culture down their throat to mold them into mindless slaves? No. He is of an inquiring mind. Even if he dislike other cultures he took the time to learn them. I think he is capable of showing the minimum courtesy and respect of letting other cultures be, if he succeeded. 

 

 

And regarding the change of the cultures. Here is a fact: Cultures change. Cultures change in respond to the environment. That happened in Elvhen, why can't it happen again with the current (elven) cultures? This is not trying to correct one sin with another. This is to change the environment so that something of fluid state can reshape itself. Even with the veil still intact, many elves are following Fen'harel. Are they not showing an intention to change already? Is the elven culture not changing already? And for the humans, have they not changed the culture drastically over the past thousand years? It's not that you give a culture time for it to grow, rather, cultures emerge in time. Even if the veil is torn down and all elves get to know the old way, does that mean they would be exactly the same as Solas remembered elves? I think not. The elves already bring about them so many new elements. The elvhen culture will change, and that is not something Solas can control, god or no god.

 

 

And Solas, of all the elves of his time, knows the best about the corruption of his world. Not just of his world, but with power and society in general. I don't think he intend to make himself a king to rule over the new world. He said only to torn down the veil. Frankly, I think doing that would not change a thing about the potential misery or corruption that existed throughout history. It is just a world of a different form, one where the elves would become healthier and stronger. And I think that is all Solas wanted at this point: to create an environment where the elves are restored to their previous strength and therefore have an edge.

 

Whoa, please don't think of my words as anything personal - I just see this from a completely different perspective. I did not mean to argue with you, just discuss more stuff about our bald egghead.

 

Yes - he wants to tear down the Veil. And he is perfectly fine with sacrificing all of modern Thedas by doing so. He says to the Inquisitor that he drawed them to where he was so he could save them at least for now. He says he intercepted the plan of the Qunari and stopped Coryfish because he wanted peace for the last couple of years of modern Thedas.

 

I never said that Solas isn't compassionate - I think that is his core problem in being a 'villain'. He cares way too much about individuals being free and also being free from suffering. Solas has a lot of flaws that make him more 'human' (or elven? heck I don't know) than he could potentially stomach. He wants to be wrong, yet he sees no alternative. If the Inquisitor CAN prove them wrong, then they should - prove that there is a way to keep modern Thedas alive and well. Solas himself, though, thinks that isn't possible and instead of facing his weird way of thinking, of behaving like erasing a mistake can actually work, he's rather indulging in the fantasy that Thedas isn't real after all. And that's bad.

 

Of course, Solas cares about the little Qunari baker who puts a small secret into every loaf that she bakes. But that's just it - he doesn't care on a grand scale, at least not enough to overthink his strategy and work with the Inquisitor together to built a better future for Thedas. He did try to teach the Dalish his way of thinking, but they wouldn't listen to him - why should they? Some random apostate hobo just turns up and tries to take everything that they still have away. He'd strip the elves of modern Thedas off their already shallow culture just to establish his own that, well, is right, but doesn't help the fact that he would basically put the Dalish into a situation in which he finds himself in: Stripped from everything that you thought you knew.

 

Uhm...I made that point about cultures changing? Like, that is exactly what I talked about: That cultures change and that Solas does not have the free will to decide who's culture lives and whose culture has to die. The Dalish HAVE a culture. It is built on false beliefs, but Fen'Harel does not have the right to strip even this shallow culture away because he believes that he alone has to decide what is right or wrong.

 

The point that I was trying to make is this: Solas has NO right to shape the elven culture, yet he tries anyway. That's why he is behaving like a god. Solas sees modern Thedas, sees that it isn't HIS culture, isn't the world that HE remembers and decides that nothing in Thedas can be real and that he can just take everything from the world away that was built over a thousand years. Well, that was his PLAN anyway. The Inquisitor proved him wrong - but he is still determined that it is the only way, that his people and his old culture is worth more than the people currently alive and because of this, modern Thedas has to go. He's taking no joy in this and I believe that, but Solas is STILL willing to decide the fate of all of Thedas without actually asking Thedas if they even want this erasure.

 

I believe the elves are following Fen'Harel because they think he will bring the change that they wanted so desperately for the last few hundred years. But Solas is a 'the end justifies the means' kind of guy - he used the Inquisition for his own plans (to get back the orb from Corykitten), he uses his agents to further his goal and he also uses the elves for that same goal. Solas is building an army. If he can only achieve his plans by deceiving countless of modern elves, then he will do so, because, well, they aren't 100% real anyway. (That does NOT mean that he likes it, of course.)

 

Nah, Solas doesn't want to be king. He actually believes he won't survive his Matrix like restart, anyway. But he is still playing god. He ALONE believes to know what is best and though he has a huge amount of knowledge, that does not give him the right to doom millions of people, only to raise back up his own people. He doesn't want an edge for the CURRENT elves of Thedas, those can die because he sees no way to save them - he wants to strenghten HIS people. HIS alone. He said countless of times that the modern elves aren't his people. They are just like every other race of current Thedas: Worth just enough to give them peace in their last years, but not worth enough to save.

[Sable Rhapsody]

I believe the elves are following Fen'Harel because they think he will bring the change that they wanted so desperately for the last few hundred years. But Solas is a 'the end justifies the means' kind of guy - he used the Inquisition for his own plans (to get back the orb from Corykitten), he uses his agents to further his goal and he also uses the elves for that same goal. Solas is building an army. If he can only achieve his plans by deceiving countless of modern elves, then he will do so, because, well, they aren't 100% real anyway. (That does NOT mean that he likes it, of course.)

 

Yeah, I don't think all those elves who are following him will necessarily benefit from his plan.  If you take a more antagonistic bent during his conversations and accuse him of using people, he basically says he didn't bring down the Evanuris without getting his hands bloody, and his current agents are just the latest in a long string of people he's used to bring about his goals.  He certainly sounds remorseful about using people, but it doesn't mean he won't.

 

Let's not forget: he's steeling himself to do something that will kill the Inquisitor--or at least, he's fairly sure it will.  Who could be one of his very few real friends.  Who could be his heart, his true love.  An elven army here or there is small potatoes.

[SnowPeaShooter]

@Miss This or That

 

 

I suppose there is nothing more to say. You see a monstrous overlord trying to conquer the world, I see a coming storm that would reshape landscape.

 

Your method of dealing with this would probably be:

1. Kill him.

2. Have him magically change his heart so that he is content with the fact that his people will never be whole again if not deteriorating further, given magic was so essential a part of this race that it changes their biology. 

 

 

My method of dealing with this would be:

1. Find more details.

2. Compromise. Can the shift be made slowly to allow for adaptation? Can the fade-infused world and the free-of-fade world be separated? What are the plans to contain evil gods if they are to be?

 

For my own sake I sincerely hope that I will be given these options, instead of simply fighting him or making him swallow the bitter fruit for eternity.

 

 

The worst case scenario I can imagine would be that the opposition forces fought Solas and died, exhausting him to a breaking point but did not stop him from tearing down the veil, and then either parties are powerless to deal with anything that comes after.

 

We clearly have very different world views and approaches. Let that be.

[Sable Rhapsody]

2. Compromise. Can the shift be made slowly to allow for adaptation? Can the fade-infused world and the free-of-fade world be separated? What are the plans to contain evil gods if they are to be?

 

The Titans ARE in play again, whatever their role is in magic and the world.  And as much as I bag on Solas for making poor life choices, I don't think he'd underestimate the Evanuris.  So there's possibility for compromise, yes.

[SnowPeaShooter]

Yeah, I don't think all those elves who are following him will necessarily benefit from his plan.  If you take a more antagonistic bent during his conversations and accuse him of using people, he basically says he didn't bring down the Evanuris without getting his hands bloody, and his current agents are just the latest in a long string of people he's used to bring about his goals.  He certainly sounds remorseful about using people, but it doesn't mean he won't.

 

Let's not forget: he's steeling himself to do something that will kill the Inquisitor--or at least, he's fairly sure it will.  Who could be one of his very few real friends.  Who could be his heart, his true love.  An elven army here or there is small potatoes.

 

 

I don't think the elves that follow him are under the impression that every single one of them would make it through. I think they know they are fighting for a chance and a chance only, and they believe that even they don't make it their future generations would be better off. Throughout history people have risked their lives for chances of a better future for them. Sometimes they succeed, sometimes they die, sometimes they bring bloodshed. In this game only, and for elves only, we have seen elves joining Solas. We have also seen elves joining the qunari, joining Briala, Red Jenny, the inquisition, even a Tervinter Magister (Fenris' sister). That is part of the human nature, and historical events are shaped by these kind of choices people made. Other people can disagree with their choices, but is that choice really unreasonable or unfounded?

[AutumnOracle]

I'll weigh in a bit here.  When I started the convo with Solas I basically shouted at my husband "See it doesn't say he's going to wipe out the world just the current world order."  I picked mostly nice/sarcastic responses nothing more confrontational and as the scene wore on I sadly had to change my tune a bit.  While in the beginning it sounds as though it's just the veil which will change things it becomes pretty clear that at the very least he thinks the only way to 'fix' his mistake will probably cost the lives of generations/cultures.  

 

It's clear to me he's stopped thinking rationally(something he implores us to do). Instead he's said this is what I must do and I cannot stop or think because there lies the potential to be swayed from the decision I have made. Because if he stops and thinks he'll realize that the friends he made the woman he loves could never have existed if the veil hadn't been constructed.  And I think if he truly realizes that he would also have to admit that he had begun to think like a god.  As other have said he would be killing Mythal himself(in this case Mythal is you/friend inquisitor/all other inquisition members that stand up for what's right).  Deep down I think he already knows it which is why he's acting so cold.  Because if he looks in the mirror he will see the thing he loathes the most.

[AutumnOracle]

I don't think the elves that follow him are under the impression that every single one of them would make it through. I think they know they are fighting for a chance and a chance only, and they believe that even they don't make it their future generations would be better off. Throughout history people have risked their lives for chances of a better future for them. Sometimes they succeed, sometimes they die, sometimes they bring bloodshed. In this game only, and for elves only, we have seen elves joining Solas. We have also seen elves joining the qunari, joining Briala, Red Jenny, the inquisition, even a Tervinter Magister (Fenris' sister). That is part of the human nature, and historical events are shaped by these kind of choices people made. Other people can disagree with their choices, but is that choice really unreasonable or unfounded?

 

Agree.  At least in the elven culture we've seem thus far, even this many generations descended from what they thought was true, they are still pretty much willing to sacrifice everything for the betterment of the race.  

[Miss This or That]

I suppose there is nothing more to say. You see a monstrous overlord trying to conquer the world, I see a coming storm that would reshape landscape.

 

Your method of dealing with this would probably be:

1. Kill him.

2. Have him magically change his heart so that he is content with the fact that his people will never be whole again if not deteriorating, given magic was so essential a part of this race that it changes their biology. 

 

 

My method of dealing with this would be:

1. Find more details.

2. Compromise. Can the shift be made slowly to allow for adaptation? Can the fade-infused world and the free-of-fade world be separated? What are the plans to contain evil gods if they are to be?

 

For my own sake I sincerely hope that I will be given these options, instead of simply fighting him or making him to swallow the bitter fruit for eternity.

 

 

The worst case scenario I can imagine would be that the opposition forces fought Solas and died, exhausting him to a breaking point but did not stop him from tearing down the veil, and then either parties are powerless to deal with anything that comes after.

 

We clearly have very different world views and approaches. Let that be.

 

 

...no? Where did you get this idea from? I said time and time again that Solas is my favourite game character of all time. As someone that tries to become a game designer one day, I can only look up at Patrick Weekes like a popstar idol - and I do, to a certain degree. Like, this man, with the help of a few others, created a character that I just love to watch, to analyse, to read about, to draw, to write fanfiction for, to read the fanfiction of others...Solas is everything that I want to be able to create one day. He's such a marvelous, deep character who is so entangled into the story of Dragon Age as a whole and yet the romance with Lavellan does not feel forced! I have no idea how often I watched every single romance scene of Solas, I don't know how often I will watch the Trespasser scenes with him in the years to come. I love this character that much.

 

And no, I want to redeem him. I truly believe that redeeming him, an option only given to friendly Inquisitors and Lavellan's, can have a huge impact on me as a player and on Thedas and our Inquisitors as a whole. That's the kind of romantic tragedy that I play games for. I'm a player for the story, have always been that way: Gameplay or graphics is nothing to me if a story can shake me to the very core. And Solas' story certainly achieved that. I sat behind my laptop after having watched the scenes with him in a twitch stream, was almost crying and my hands were shaking so hard that I could barely type.

 

You don't understand me because you think I paint Solas in an entirely evil picture. I do not. Solas is such a deep character that him being a villain goes against his entire personality, yet he does it anyway because he feels like it is his responsiblity and there is no other choice. He lost his way (or rather, lost any other way he could potentially walk), is homesick like no one else in the world and goes as far as to doom one of the only real friends that he has, heck, he'd even doom his love!

 

Just because I love Solas' character with every fiber of my game-design-loving heart does not mean that I have to stand behind what he tries to do. He reaches out to Inky and tells them he hopes they can prove him wrong - and I deeply analysed that section time and time again. That does NOT make what he tries to do right, though. Still, I don't think he is a villain - a tragic antagonist, yes, but not a downright villain. He cares too much for that. But it takes balls to write a character who, even though he has such a compassionate side, has walked his own path so far down the road that he entirely fails to see that the way branches countless times.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Agree.  At least in the elven culture we've seem thus far, even this many generations descended from what they thought was true, they are still pretty much willing to sacrifice everything for the betterment of the race.  

 

Which Solas might be counting on 

 

I dunno.  He has complicated and mixed feelings on the modern elves; just look at how inconsistent he is about "my people" vs. "your people" vs. "our people" when talking to Lavellan or Sera.  But let's say for argument's sake that the elves will come out of his plan on top, including the modern elves.  Maybe they'll become more like the elvhen of old.  What about everyone else?

 

I know there are elves out there who'd be tempted to say, "F*** everyone else."  And while I can 100% understand why they might feel that way, it doesn't make destroying the world ok.  I'm with Sera here more than Solas.

[Kaktuskoira]

I think Solas is not only correcting "an old mistake", he is also trying to protect the entire elven race from possible demise, by creating the ultimate fertile ground for the elven people. It is like bring about a climate change. I don't think he intends to pick out the non-elves and slaughter them one by one, but in the post-fade world, elves would prevail, darwes would be ok too since they co-existed with the elves, no so sure about qunari. Would humans adapt well to that world? they probably wouldn't, or maybe they would, who knows. The world would not be destroyed, it would just change.

 

This is why I hoped my Lavellan could have joined him, romance or not.

 

The situation of modern elves is quite desperate. Whole clans of Dalish die like flies, and depending on who rules Orlais, it is hardly better for city elves. Lavellan can try to make things better by putting Gaspard puppet on throne and Briala to rule from shadows, or by befriending future Divine. But Ameridan's disappearance already proved how fragile alliances are when they are built on personal friendships. One generation is not long enough to make a lasting change, when killing elves is considered a rite of passage for Orlais' finest chevaliers.

 

Why not to put her chances with tearing down the Veil? How much worse it could be than inevitable exctinction within next thousand years? I could see a Keeper Lavellan whose Clan was murdered, consider this neutrally and decide to join Solas. It's a choice between spirit librarians again one day or having one book in whole clan and only two people who can actually read. Maybe not a bright new future for her, but for future generations.

 

One thing we haven't discussed yet is the inevitable backlash caused by Solas' reveal, and what it means to elves. Or speficially to Lavellan as a member of her race.

 

Solas and elven Inquisitor can talk about this after Haven avalanche when he reveals the orb is elven, and they must prepare for what humans will do when they find out. One of options is to say that humans will blame elves eventually, and Solas agrees the Inquisitor is correct.

 

Now, after Trespasser, it's way worse.
 

How many people will believe Lavellan had nothing to do with Solas' plans? They were lovers, and everyone knew it. Lavellan can tell Vivienne during the spa day that she is still not over him two years later. Elfiest elf couple ever, and Lavellan having Fen'Harel's magic imprinted on her hand? Or Solas taking Lavellan's vallaslin away, just like in Fen'Harel mosaics? Or even the fact she, an elf,  happened to be at the Conclave at first place, and became the Herald! It does sound like those two planned the whole thing before it even happened.

 

If even the Qunari believe Lavellan serves Fen'Harel, will the human nobility of Thedas, the Chantry, practically everyone else INCLUDING enemies of Inquisition/Inquisitor just dismiss it and say "Oh, I believe you are innocent and wholly ignorant. And we also believe when you say that you are the only elf on whole Thedas whom Fen'Harel didn't let join his cause to save knife-ear race."

 

Lavellan's clan could get wiped out simply because they were a convenient target for her enemies. But for something this big, imagine what the backlash at elves will become. Or Lavellan herself. She can be seen as guilty by association, no matter what her opinion about Solas' plan is. And like people have written, love is Solas' one weakness. She is a perfect hostage.

 

If I were Lavellan, and Solas would not agree to let me join, I would run to nearest eluvian leading anywhere but to Winter Palace and just disappear before I got burned at stake. If she returns, she might lose a lot more than just one limb.

[Fen'Eira]

...If I were Lavellan, and Solas would not agree to let me join, I would run to nearest eluvian leading anywhere but to Winter Palace and just disappear before I got burned at stake. If she returns, she might lose a lot more than just one limb.

That would have been my real life response if I were my inky.  You put out so much effort to helping everyone, saving everyone, beating Cory, give everything you've got for these people, including losing your heart, your hand.

 

I'd be inclined to say "**** 'em all, I've done all I can, they need to figure it out without me."  I'd cut the cord, step through an eluvian and go traveling, see all there is to see before my end.

[Tootles FTW]

I have a serious question.  Not sure I want the real answer though cause the beginnings of a headcannon are starting.  When I was on the path headed toward the Solas cutscene Cole chimes in with something along the lines of "He can't be far from her."
 
Anyone know if he says this to non-romance characters as well?  If so it's probably just an anchor reference that he can't be far from the anchor.  If not and it's just for the romanced...well like I said, I'm headcannoning.

I'm curious about this one myself. Was Cole talking about our Lavellan or the female Qunari chasing Solas ("He can't be far from her" could be referencing that she is right on his tail)? For shipping purposes I want it to be the former, but I'm not sure.

[Moondreamer01]

I'm curious about this one myself. Was Cole talking about our Lavellan or the female Qunari chasing Solas ("He can't be far from her" could be referencing that she is right on his tail)? For shipping purposes I want it to be the former, but I'm not sure.

 

I think he meant that big Saarebas we fight at the end. He can't be far from that priestess chick or else it hurts him. It has to do with their bindings.