186 réponses à ce sujet

[OdanUrr]

Sure, if you don't care about balancing or build diversity.

 

There is build diversity. Nothing's preventing you from making different builds for your characters.

 

Also, out of curiosity, what exactly is there to balance?

[Elhanan]

Not to be rude but that only tells me what they fixed, not if they changed any abilities or how.

This seems to be the changes to Single Player (taken from DA-MP notes):

Changes:

- Spirit Blade functionality has changed! It now builds up damage as you deal damage with other sources and expends them when you use it. This makes the ability really strong if used rarely and really weak if you just spam it.

- Unbowed has been replaced with Livid. Livid increases incoming and outgoing damage for each enemy in the area. The upgrade to this is the original functionality of Unbowed (gains guard)

- Spike Trap upgrade now applies a stack of bleeding (physical damage over time).

- Spinning Blades now additionally removes debuffs from your target and puts them on all targets in the area instead.

- Shadowstrike now returns stamina if you are not the highest threat of your target. The upgrade now does what the base functionality did before (bonus damage if in stealth or haven't been damage recently)

[Yaroub]

Not to be rude but that only tells me what they fixed, not if they changed any abilities or how.

 

Well that's what they listed.

 

Here's a thread http://forum.bioware...atch-110/page-1  regarding some changes.

 

Seems valid none of the mods locked it.

[Dr. rotinaj]

Bioware breaking something not broken, tis a trademark.

 

I think you're being dramatic, KE was the most broken thing in DAI.

[In Exile]

I'm not sure the point of nerfing a skill like this so badly 9 months after release. Sad. Very sad. I'm going to cry on my golden nug now.

 

I'm not sure why people care so much about SB vs. the Cloak. That's what makes a KE broken. 

[Jaison1986]

I'm not sure why people care so much about SB vs. the Cloak. That's what makes a KE broken. 

 

Then maybe they should have changed that in the first patch instead, rather then let us get used to one build only to throw it away completely several months later.

[Dr. rotinaj]

There is build diversity. Nothing's preventing you from making different builds for your characters.

 

Also, out of curiosity, what exactly is there to balance?

 

Knight Enchanter was extremely overpowered because of the basically permanent barrier. And it didn't take much investment into the KE skill tree to turn into an unstoppable solo killing machine, you pretty much only needed spirit blade. KE made other mage specs objectively worse choices. 

 

I mean sure I could choose another spec/class so I'm not OP, but I don't consider it build diversity to avoid options. Same as I don't consider avoiding a bad spec like shapeshifter in DAO as build diversity. Build diversity is making choices between viable options, not choosing from the non-ridiculous options.

 

As for balance, I think that either the survivability needs to be toned down or the focus ability needs to change. Being an un-killable healer is a little to OP don't you think?

[Mr.House]

Barrier is part of KE, ruining it to this degree hurts the class, plus making such a stupid change this late makes no sense.

[c00lgy24]

I like the change , to see it in game is pretty cool . 

[Mr.House]

Then they should have done it earlier. This is TOR Mara bad balance wise.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Once I saw this new Amplified Blade ability, after I thought about it a little bit, it actually seems like a great change. It makes the spamming of Spirit Blade counterproductive and, instead, turns it into something that can be really quite powerful.

 

I was seeing over 1,000 damage during a quick test with ~80 spirit charges and casting the upgraded Chain Lightning spell against a mob would bring my charges right back up to 70-80 charges, meaning Chain Lightning will probably be one of the preferred methods of quickly recharging your Sprit Blade charges.

 

Besides, I never seemed to have much luck with the defensive Spirit Blade upgrade to deflect ranged attacks (or, at least, I just could never tell when it actually worked) so I think this adds a great deal of new depth to the KE build.

[themikefest]

No big deal. I will adapt and overcome

[OdanUrr]

Knight Enchanter was extremely overpowered because of the basically permanent barrier. And it didn't take much investment into the KE skill tree to turn into an unstoppable solo killing machine, you pretty much only needed spirit blade. KE made other mage specs objectively worse choices. 

 

I mean sure I could choose another spec/class so I'm not OP, but I don't consider it build diversity to avoid options. Same as I don't consider avoiding a bad spec like shapeshifter in DAO as build diversity. Build diversity is making choices between viable options, not choosing from the non-ridiculous options.

 

As for balance, I think that either the survivability needs to be toned down or the focus ability needs to change. Being an un-killable healer is a little to OP don't you think?

 

So, you used to be invincible. Pick a class that isn't? Whereas you see not choosing KE as limiting yourself I merely see it as part of roleplay. It is not avoiding options, it's exploring other builds that have different abilities. At the end of the day, the point is to have fun, isn't it? Does it really matter if I have the build that tanks the most or does the most damage per second? It's not as if we're in a MMO where players usually want to get the most out of their characters, especially if they aim to join other players in some kind of group events. For instance, having a strong build appropriate for your role and knowing your rotation (and tactics!) are key elements for playing operations in SWTOR.

 

I wouldn't know about being an un-killable healer since I play on Casual so I'm usually always un-killable anyway.

[Mr.House]

Well said Odan.

[Dr. rotinaj]

So, you used to be invincible. Pick a class that isn't? Whereas you see not choosing KE as limiting yourself I merely see it as part of roleplay. It is not avoiding options, it's exploring other builds that have different abilities. At the end of the day, the point is to have fun, isn't it? Does it really matter if I have the build that tanks the most or does the most damage per second? It's not as if we're in a MMO where players usually want to get the most out of their characters, especially if they aim to join other players in some kind of group events. For instance, having a strong build appropriate for your role and knowing your rotation (and tactics!) are key elements for playing operations in SWTOR.

 

I wouldn't know about being an un-killable healer since I play on Casual so I'm usually always un-killable anyway.

 

Yeah I agree that it's about having fun and that exploring other builds is part of that, but I don't think exploring other options is just choosing another option. I want to see the pros and cons, I want to work around weaknesses by experimenting with party builds or focusing on certain strengths, I want spec selection to be a big and engaging decision. These are the things I find fun, and this patch is for people like me who find balanced gameplay more engaging than unbalanced gameplay.

 

For those who like the unkillable KE, lower difficulties are perfect because they'll be able to maintain that experience. But for me, this patch is an improvement to the gameplay.  

[Giantdeathrobot]

Actually, this change is great for me. I always played my KE has a ranged-focus mage that used SB to mix it up if needed. One cast of Chain Lightning and Static Cage almost fills up the blade and causes one cast to do 4-5 times more damage than the baseline spell pre-change. Fits my playstyle perfectly.

 

The semi-perma barrier is still a thing thanks to my spellslinging anyway, so my KE is still a beast. No complaints here.

[The Baconer]

Barrier is part of KE, ruining it to this degree hurts the class, plus making such a stupid change this late makes no sense.

 

Blade was never even an efficient way to maintain Barrier. It's interaction with Clean Burn and Fade Cloak is what made it important.

[Hrungr]

IMO, SB can safely fall to the wayside now.

Just get the right passives and a good Cooldown Amulet, spam Fade Cloak & Immolate or Energy Barrage and everything melts.

[Lee80]

Rest in peace spirit blade.  Great news on the Necromancer buff.  It was always my favorite specialization anyway.  

 

I agree with the others though, this change is crap.  Spirit blade was the only thing about knight enchanter that made it feel like a warrior/mage dual class (which to my understanding was the whole point of it).  Knight enchanter will still be super powerful, but just not nearly as unique anymore in my mind.  

[Aulis Vaara]

- Spirit Blade functionality has changed! It now builds up damage as you deal damage with other sources and expends them when you use it. This makes the ability really strong if used rarely and really weak if you just spam it.

On the one hand, I like dynamic abilities, on the other hand, the knight enchanter is all about getting up in people's faces. Making spirit blade a 'rare' thing seems counter to that. I also foresee some issues for people who play with friendly fire (i.e. Like men!).

But, I have yet to test it, so I can't judge yet.

[Elhanan]

On the one hand, I like dynamic abilities, on the other hand, the knight enchanter is all about getting up in people's faces. Making spirit blade a 'rare' thing seems counter to that. I also foresee some issues for people who play with friendly fire (i.e. Like men!).

But, I have yet to test it, so I can't judge yet.

I play a Lightning KE, and remain at range as a rule. However, if an enemy closes, Fade Cloak and Spirit Blade are great ways of sending a message, "You done messed up now!".

[Lazarillo]

On the one hand, I like dynamic abilities, on the other hand, the knight enchanter is all about getting up in people's faces. Making spirit blade a 'rare' thing seems counter to that. I also foresee some issues for people who play with friendly fire (i.e. Like men!).

 

I haven't played a KE yet myself (keep saying I'm going to, keep ending up playing S&S Templars in all but one playthrough so far), but this would be my would big concern with the change.  When I put Vivienne in my party I always leave it off her bar and keep her ranged anyway, and she does well enough even with that.  So I'm pretty sure the Knight Enchanters are still gonna be pretty good.  But if/when I get around to playing one, I wanna be, y'know, Arcane Warrior-y.  I don't want to be waving my ranged attacks around when I'm already in their faces.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Yeah, testing it further, pre-patch spirit blade did about 300-400 dmg per swing. Post-patch, one Chain Lightning charges it up to 80ish charges, from which I can take 3 swings that deal 800+ damage and more than 1k for crits. So long as you don't solely spam SB, this is a buff if anything. You also passively keep 50 charges between fights so you're not empty handed if battle comes up.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Yeah, testing it further, pre-patch spirit blade did about 300-400 dmg per swing. Post-patch, one Chain Lightning charges it up to 80ish charges, from which I can take 3 swings that deal 800+ damage and more than 1k for crits. So long as you don't solely spam SB, this is a buff if anything. You also passively keep 50 charges between fights so you're not empty handed if battle comes up.

 

If anything, this patch reveals the Spirit Blade spammers and the actual Knight Enchanters. The Spirit Blade spammers are crying foul over here and on Reddit whereas the true Knight Enchanters are quite happy with the change.

[Elhanan]

As my current portrait indicates, my plan is to be playing a Rift mage in this session. But I enjoy having Barrier remaining up so much longer as a KE that it may take bribery to have me go through with it.