186 réponses à ce sujet

[Aulis Vaara]

After having tested it out, I thoroughly dislike the change. The problem is that some spells simply don't generate any counters at all (Mind Blast, Fade Step), while some generate too few for their impact (Fade Cloak), while the almighty energy barrage is once again your best bet. Is there any mage class that doesn't want to spam energy barage? No. But now Knight Enchanters are practically obligated to get it if they want to do damage.

Talking about Friendly Fire On, here, there may be spells in non-friendly fire that serve this purpose just as well (but you are still forced to go DPS).

The class has become less dynamic and less fun, in my opinion. Sucks.

[fizzypop]

I like this change i don't know why peope are whining about,Now this class is a little more balanced you can't solo dragons on nightmare now you NEED to use some tactics.

Or just be a rogue. Or a warrior. Every class can solo dragons with the right spec and gear. This has nothing to do with that.

[fizzypop]

I discovered that's pretty much the way to go now. Energy barrage for tougher enemies and chain lightining for mobs. It just bothers me how that kills the pacing, since I need to stop at every 3 strikes to use a spell in order to charge spirit blade.

The pacing is awful. Someone on reddit said bioware changed it because they plan to upgrade it for the new DLC. That upgrade has you use all the charges at once in one swing. So you would realistically only use it on tough enemies and as a finishing move. That might make it useful for boss fights. We will have to see. Though if that's true I'm still quite annoyed because what about those of us who aren't buying it? If I decide not to buy it I'm stuck with this annoying ass skill that is weaker than its previous incarnation? They should have only made it change if you bought the new DLC.

[Jaison1986]

The pacing is awful. Someone on reddit said bioware changed it because they plan to upgrade it for the new DLC. That upgrade has you use all the charges at once in one swing. So you would realistically only use it on tough enemies and as a finishing move. That might make it useful for boss fights. We will have to see. Though if that's true I'm still quite annoyed because what about those of us who aren't buying it? If I decide not to buy it I'm stuck with this annoying ass skill that is weaker than its previous incarnation? They should have only made it change if you bought the new DLC.

 

I'm not much of a fan of that idea. It just turns spirit blade into poor's man focus ability. If anything, they should have kept the base damage to 300% and add this charge mechanic as an bonus. That way using other spells would be optional, rather then obligatory.

[Aulis Vaara]

I'm not much of a fan of that idea. It just turns spirit blade into poor's man focus ability. If anything, they should have kept the base damage to 300% and add this charge mechanic as an bonus. That way using other spells would be optional, rather then obligatory.

The damage was never the problem. It's the Knight Enchanter's ridiculously good synergy with everything else that made it so powerful. The damage was actually pretty fair. A spirit blade combo (3 strikes) is not even more powerful than seven strike normal attack (5*1 + 1*3).

Spirit Blade combo damage (an extra 100% for the rune, because it also receives the 300% modifier):
(300% + 100%) * 4 = 1200%

Staff combo attack (the 33% is for the rune you have on there):
(100% + 33%) * 8 = 1066%

So... yeah. Now, the staff combo attack is clearly a little slower, but you do also fire it at range and it is homing. So how exactly was Spirit Blade "overpowered"? It wasn't. At all.

EDIT: Hmm, apparently spirit blade also takes the Rune into account. I got confused because apparently Ghouls don't count as darkspawn -.-')

That changes the equation a little bit, but the difference is still pretty minimal. Sure, Spirit is slightly powerful while also being slightly faster, but it does require melee range.

Modifié par Aulis Vaara, 05 septembre 2015 - 07:41 .

[Skaden]

Haven't tried playing with the changes yet myself, but from what I'm hearing I have a bad feeling. I thoroughly enjoyed the KE exactly because it was the melee mage class, a callback to the arcane warrior from DAO but still with its own unique spin, and while it sounds like the sb is still somewhat effective if properly charged, this new mechanic's overrelliance on casting spells after every 3 strikes or so sounds like it will ruin the melee pacing and also make the KE overall feel much less unique compared to the other mage specs both of whom are already more geared toward traditional ranged spell flinging. While I can understand concerns about game balance, the standards are different for a sp game compared to say swtor and to change the ability this drastically almost a full year after the game's release just feels absolutely unnecessary, if this was really how bw intended the sb to function then it should have been patched soon after launch or otherwise just leave it alone. Still excited for trespasser but I'll admit news of this change has dampened my enthusiasm considerably.

[Alley Cat]

I hate it, to be honest. I wish I'd never downloaded the patch on my ps4 because now I can't go back, and the golden nug and wardrobe were not a good enough trade off for losing the way my Knight-Enchanter works and the fun of actually being as close as possible (since we can't use the blade-ends of our staff or equip swords like with Arcane Warriors / Battlemages) to having the character concept I want.

 

Seriously, it completely ruins the concept of my canon/first Inquisitor, which I'm still playing. Or was, anyway... I'm not sure it's fun enough to bother seeing her through to completion at this point; I've already started a rogue to take her place. The whole roleplay of her as a frontlines fighter who channelled her magic into combat ability via becoming a Knight-Enchanter (aka, basically the whole premise of the specialization) is ruined now that she has to sit there, hanging back and 'charging it' with other spells. Which... how is that lore-friendly at all? She's expending mana casting spells, and as she grows weaker from that her spirit blade grows stronger? Uhm...???

 

To be frank, this is single player not multi-player. If you didn't like how "overpowered" Knight-Enchanter was, you could just play anything else. Or not put Spirit Blade on your action bar. Simple as that. There's really no excuse to ruin the fun for everyone else because some people can't figure out how to not use a skill they don't like. That, and I'm super miffed that after ten months of having this game, which I paid a nice sum of real-life money to own, the entire way one of the character types works is "reworked" (imo, completely scrapped and 'ruined'). I didn't pay for forced patches that completely change the gameplay in the name of "balance" I did not want or need as someone who prefers character concepts and roleplay value while immersing myself in the story. I don't give a nug's behind about balance in single player. I'm the only player (hence, single, not multi) in this experience, so it should be about what I enjoy not what someone feels I should be forced to do.

 

But really, if they were to give Knight-Enchanters the ability to use our staff blades as weapons or wield swords like in Origins, I wouldn't even be that miffed. Spirit Blade is literally the only bloody thing we get close to actually being a battlemage, and then they went and nerfed the only blade we get to use. That is why I'm so upset about it; I could take or leave spamming x (honestly 'leave' is fine by me), but the way it works has been entirely reworked and at this late in the game it's super frustrating because it means my Inquisitor no longer gets to primarily use 'a sword' and now she has to run around looking like an idiot and frustrating me as she goes from ranged to melee, ranged to melee, charging up a blade that by all logic should get weaker as she wastes her mana not stronger.

 

My character is not a ranged fighter by roleplay (which, this is an RPG, so...). She is someone who wants to fight on the frontlines - who used to have the skill to do so - and only occasionally stands back to fry some enemies with lightning. If she had a real weapon instead of just the Spirit Blade, that I could use as often as I please just like with all other normal weapons, that'd be an entirely different and much-welcome thing. But that's not the case, so yeah roleplaying-wise, conceptually, and basically in terms of the main reason many players choose Knight-Enchanter, it's been destroyed. I mean, Spirit Blade is the iconic power that you craft the hilt for in order to learn the specialization!

 

What's the point of Knight-Enchanter when it's no longer really playable as strictly a melee mage? I mean, if I'm going to occasionally thwack things close-range but mostly fire other spells at enemies, why bother being a Knight-Enchanter and not any other mage specialization? The uniqueness feels damaged, now.

[Elhanan]

Perhaps too many complained about how easy it was to spam SB and win, and Bioware chose to fix it. Now it requires some tactical thought if used, or may be skipped if one does not like the change.

[Alley Cat]

That doesn't make it okay, though. Literally, if that's the case, it means they're catering to busybodies who see fit to whinge about being able to spam SB and win... in a single player game where what other people do in order to win is none of those people's business and those who dislike how easy it is can just as easily opt out of using Spirit Blade if they hate it so much.

 

Edited to fix ambiguous pronouns of mass confusion.

Modifié par Alley Cat, 06 septembre 2015 - 04:18 .

[In Exile]

Perhaps too many complained about how easy it was to spam SB and win, and Bioware chose to fix it. Now it requires some tactical thought if used, or may be skipped if one does not like the change.

 

But the change doesn't really change anything - it actually makes the KE more broken. Before, using the SB frequently was a fun if ineffective way of playing the class (because other mage spells were stronger, did better damage, and Fade Cloak was crazy OP). Now, there's even more incentive to use the other abilities. 

[Elhanan]

But the change doesn't really change anything - it actually makes the KE more broken. Before, using the SB frequently was a fun if ineffective way of playing the class (because other mage spells were stronger, did better damage, and Fade Cloak was crazy OP). Now, there's even more incentive to use the other abilities.

Evidently, nor for those that were already utilizing another build for the class besides straight melee. See previous posts from myself and others that play ranged or other types of KE's.

[Aulis Vaara]

What's the point of Knight-Enchanter when it's no longer really playable as strictly a melee mage? I mean, if I'm going to occasionally thwack things close-range but mostly fire other spells at enemies, why bother being a Knight-Enchanter and not any other mage specialization? The uniqueness feels damaged, now.

^ This

But the change doesn't really change anything - it actually makes the KE more broken. Before, using the SB frequently was a fun if ineffective way of playing the class (because other mage spells were stronger, did better damage, and Fade Cloak was crazy OP). Now, there's even more incentive to use the other abilities.

^ And this.

[Vintzsche]

I wish they kept it to 200% base damage; that way it isn't too penalizing if I just want to cast spirit blade 60-70% per encounter (and the charge is just a happy bonus) to make me believe I am a front lining battlemage who is deserving of the title "Knight."

[ToloCosmicBoy]

The problem here is that spamming SB has always been the focus of the specialization, whether some like it or not. KE are meant to be the mages who go fighting on the frontline alongside warriors and wreck stuff with their magical blade. Not only this is confirmed by the class perks that all revolve about it, but also by the lore: just read the codex entries or talk with npcs and they'll all tell how KE are warrior mages. What's the point of having a battle mage that has to stay back and cast spells only to use his magical sword every once in a while? It makes no sense at all. Before you could play the way you wanted, if you didn't like to spam SB you were perfectly able to build your character that way, but now that is the only way to play a KE and this really irks me. Why must the fun be taken out of my game because you don't like how I play in single player? Please be honest, you can't say that KE were OP when tempest rogues can still nearly one-shot hogh dragons or assassin rogues can easily achieve 18k criticals. This patch severely hurt people like me who enjoyed being a mage in the heat of the battle and also ruined what was probably the best role for the inquisitor as far as the story is concerned.

I think that the best thing to do would be to restore SB's power to its former values for single player and keep the post-patch values for multiplayer. That would make everyone happy. But since people will always complain (and I honestly don't know why) we could meet halfway and agree on restoring the base damage to 300% while keeping the nerfed barrier/guard damage to 100% and leaving the charge mechanic, so that everyone can play the way he wants, be it a blade spammer or someone who only likes to swing his blade every once in a while as a finisher with hos boosted damage.

[Aulis Vaara]

Hooray! I made a fix for PC players.

[sunnydxmen]

i just killed a whole bunch of pride demons by myself on nightmare. cause the rest of my party died knightechanter is still unkillable in melee with me.

[In Exile]

Evidently, nor for those that were already utilizing another build for the class besides straight melee. See previous posts from myself and others that play ranged or other types of KE's.

You can play ranged KEs, sure, but then you're never really taking advantage of any feature of the class besides the spontaneous barrier regeneration, and again that doesn't change or impact your play type.

My point is only that I'm not persuaded that this change has actually nerfed the KE. If the SB, fully charged, actually does MORE damage than before, I think this change has made the KE even more OP, if it can be believed.

[Steelcan]

So which upgrade to SB is recommended?  Defensive or Amplified?

[In Exile]

The problem here is that spamming SB has always been the focus of the specialization, whether some like it or not. KE are meant to be the mages who go fighting on the frontline alongside warriors and wreck stuff with their magical blade. Not only this is confirmed by the class perks that all revolve about it, but also by the lore: just read the codex entries or talk with npcs and they'll all tell how KE are warrior mages. What's the point of having a battle mage that has to stay back and cast spells only to use his magical sword every once in a while? It makes no sense at all. Before you could play the way you wanted, if you didn't like to spam SB you were perfectly able to build your character that way, but now that is the only way to play a KE and this really irks me. Why must the fun be taken out of my game because you don't like how I play in single player? Please be honest, you can't say that KE were OP when tempest rogues can still nearly one-shot hogh dragons or assassin rogues can easily achieve 18k criticals. This patch severely hurt people like me who enjoyed being a mage in the heat of the battle and also ruined what was probably the best role for the inquisitor as far as the story is concerned.

I think that the best thing to do would be to restore SB's power to its former values for single player and keep the post-patch values for multiplayer. That would make everyone happy. But since people will always complain (and I honestly don't know why) we could meet halfway and agree on restoring the base damage to 300% while keeping the nerfed barrier/guard damage to 100% and leaving the charge mechanic, so that everyone can play the way he wants, be it a blade spammer or someone who only likes to swing his blade every once in a while as a finisher with hos boosted damage.

That's just not true. All of the KE abilities are about close combat, but not about KE spam. Barrier regen is DMG based. Combat clarity (I think that was the name) triggers on proximity. The only real issue is if you play with FF on, but IMO DAI is just not designed to allow for FF control or spellwise.

[Elhanan]

You can play ranged KEs, sure, but then you're never really taking advantage of any feature of the class besides the spontaneous barrier regeneration, and again that doesn't change or impact your play type.

My point is only that I'm not persuaded that this change has actually nerfed the KE. If the SB, fully charged, actually does MORE damage than before, I think this change has made the KE even more OP, if it can be believed.

I am not taking advantage of the supposed strengths this class uses typically. However, I played Rogues with heavy armor in DAO, used higher Willpower than most for all classes, and other variants; did sim things in DA2 also. And now that the game is altered to strengthen my choice of build now, it is hopefully a good thing; will have to see.

Still need to play a Rift Mage and Necromancer though; just do not like using Barrier so much.

[Drasanil]

So which upgrade to SB is recommended?  Defensive or Amplified?

 

I'd say Defending. For one amplified only shows up if you already had the upgrade, so it's probably not meant for single player. Apart for that, it adds some level of missle protection even if you aren't really paying attention, and I find Defending Blade sets a better rhythm for combat. With defending you don't use up all your charges on the first attack meaning you wont be swinging a wet noodle for clean burn and enemies blocking you is less of a loss. 

[sunnydxmen]

and i just killed a dragon on nightmare with the new knight enchanter all by myself .cause everyone else died again they are so worthless sometimes.

[Lazarillo]

Hooray! I made a fix for PC players.

 

You're a classy sort.  I like the cut of your jib. 

I still don't actually have a KE, and I may or may not use such a mod anyway (since I don't know that I'll necessarily "miss" the old version anyway), but more options is always better.

[sunnydxmen]

So which upgrade to SB is recommended?  Defensive or Amplified?

i prefer amplified to me way better. i have aegis of the rift fade step in cloak to avoid damage.

[EvilChani]

So, you used to be invincible. Pick a class that isn't? Whereas you see not choosing KE as limiting yourself I merely see it as part of roleplay. It is not avoiding options, it's exploring other builds that have different abilities. At the end of the day, the point is to have fun, isn't it? Does it really matter if I have the build that tanks the most or does the most damage per second? It's not as if we're in a MMO where players usually want to get the most out of their characters, especially if they aim to join other players in some kind of group events. For instance, having a strong build appropriate for your role and knowing your rotation (and tactics!) are key elements for playing operations in SWTOR.

 

I wouldn't know about being an un-killable healer since I play on Casual so I'm usually always un-killable anyway.

 

^^This. Except now that they've nerfed KE, you'll be easily killable even on Casual. ASAIAC, there's no reason to play as KE anymore. The fun is gone. All so they can kiss MP ass. I'm sick of MP options in SP games. Either make the damned thing SP or don't. Some of us don't play well with others and want to be in our own sandbox...one that does NOT turn into quicksand and swallow us when we least expect it (I'm looking at you, TW3...that game sucks for one reason: dying repeatedly is not enjoyable!).

 

And for those who will inevitably start whining that easy should be hard and hard should be completely impossible, some of us have lives and jobs. Many of us don't have the time, nor the energy, to play through one section of a game for three hours only to have our asses handed to us and have to redo it again...and again....and again. The PC is supposed to be a badass. Badasses don't get wasted by normal enemies, they plough through them like a hot knife through butter. Badasses take on dragons and may get a few burns and cuts, but they manage without wasting half a night fighting and walk away with a backpack full of dragon bones. I'm sick of a bunch of whiny turds who want every fight to be a time suck ruining the fun for the rest of us.