186 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

^^This. Except now that they've nerfed KE, you'll be easily killable even on Casual. ASAIAC, there's no reason to play as KE anymore. The fun is gone. All so they can kiss MP ass. I'm sick of MP options in SP games. Either make the damned thing SP or don't. Some of us don't play well with others and want to be in our own sandbox...one that does NOT turn into quicksand and swallow us when we least expect it (I'm looking at you, TW3...that game sucks for one reason: dying repeatedly is not enjoyable!).
 
And for those who will inevitably start whining that easy should be hard and hard should be completely impossible, some of us have lives and jobs. Many of us don't have the time, nor the energy, to play through one section of a game for three hours only to have our asses handed to us and have to redo it again...and again....and again. The PC is supposed to be a badass. Badasses don't get wasted by normal enemies, they plough through them like a hot knife through butter. Badasses take on dragons and may get a few burns and cuts, but they manage without wasting half a night fighting and walk away with a backpack full of dragon bones. I'm sick of a bunch of whiny turds who want every fight to be a time suck ruining the fun for the rest of us.

Might feel more empathetic if I wasn't 58, disabled from a stroke, have neuropathy, and still use KB&M controls while playing on Nightmare. While I am unable to use a controller, or play most games that recommend one, I have 790+ hrs in DAI that seems to indicate that this reaction is a tad more overblown than one should accept at face value.

[Reaver102]

7 of my 9 play throughs have been a KE and honestly the class seems fine to me.  Spirit blade always hit like a wet noodle before, now it's one of my hardest hitting spells, I regularly use the spell now instead of just when my opponent has armor.

[Skybeam]

the charges on spirit blade do not stack with damage over time spells, ie 'blizzard, the dots from fire mine and immolate, static cage damage' this is a problem for me since it says specifically that it stacks with damage dealt

[Darkstarr11]

I've been adjusting my play style for my KE Inquisitors.  Originally, they billed this character class as one that could charge into battle and fight alongside the warriors.  

 

Not so much now.  Building up a charge forces you to pull them from the front line, and put them back with the other mages.  You see, I never did as much damage as a warrior, but when it came to barriers and guard, my KE was key.  They ripped through the barrier in no time flat, allowing the warriors to get back to doing what THEY do best, and giving my rogues a chance to cause serious damage from the flank.  Being weakened like this has forced me to pull them off the front lines and back to using them as a long distance striker.  This, along with the Focus nerf, is really changing how I play.  I'm...not fond of the changes, actually.  It made Descent even more of a chore at higher levels.  Maybe there is a reason, something to do with Trespasser, but it seems more of a case of 'stop having fun, guys' than anything else.  KE were still vulnerable, and outside of their ability to strip barriers and guard, didn't do more damage than a rogue or a warrior.  

 

At least at lower levels, due to the GN, I can still stand up to some of the more powerful foes.  

[ToloCosmicBoy]

That's just not true. All of the KE abilities are about close combat, but not about KE spam. Barrier regen is DMG based. Combat clarity (I think that was the name) triggers on proximity. The only real issue is if you play with FF on, but IMO DAI is just not designed to allow for FF control or spellwise.

I don't mean to sound rude, but you do realize that you've just proven yourself wrong, don't you? As you have said, Fade Shield generates a barrier which is equivalent to 30% of the damage you've dealt, therefore cutting Spirit Blade's damage from 300% to 150% also halves the barrier you get when you hit someone (and don't forget that barrier/guard bonus damage has been cut as well, hitting an enemy with a barrier on meant having a full barrier cast on yourself with two hits). Combat Clarity makes you regen mana faster when you're in a 5-meter radius from your foes, but why would you want to be that close if you're playing ranged? Now, let's take a look at the other two passives: Veiled Riposte makes enemies who hit you recieve 20% of their damage back when you have a barrier on while Knight Protector makes your barrier last longer. It is clear that the purpose of the class was to be a melee mage: of course, you could add perks from other skill lines to build your character in a different way, but that's not the point: a Knight Enchanter is supposed to go straight to an enemy and whack it with his glorious, shining magical blade, gaining a barrier in the process (and a lot more than what you'd get with your ranged attacks), regaining your mana faster, and deflecting part of their damage back to them.
Even the other two non-focus active skills support this theory: Fade Cloak lets you become ethereal to escape bad situations, and its upgrade Decloaking Blast lets you come back with a big surprise; Disruption Field instead lets you create a small bubble that slows enemies down, allowing you to smash them with your Spirit Blade even more.

It is perfectly clear that Knight Enchanters were meant to be played like that. As I have said before, of course anyone can play the way he or she prefers: if you want to pick up Knight Enchanter as specialization only because of the self-generating barrier and then play as a ranged mage, that's fine. If you want to mix up those skills with others from the other trees to create combos, that's fine as well. But it really isn't fine when people complain because they don't like how other people play. I have always played as a Knight Enchanter, because I have fallen in love at first sight with Spirit Blade and I loved how I could use it as my primary and only weapon. Now, with this upgrade, I feel like I've been majorly screwed, because the only way I liked to play this game has been taken away from me. Having to charge up Spirit Blade with other spells only to use it three/four times then having to charge it up again isn't just fun. I still had to buy the DLCs, and at this point I'm not going to buy them anymore. Not as a mean of protest against BioWare but only because this game has went from awesome to boring in just one night.

(sorry for the long reply, I'm quite emotional about games and when I have something at heart I tend to ramble a lot)

[sunnydxmen]

Too me nothing  change i still kill dragons in fight in melee mode ,in survive in explode my enemies from the inside out in chop em up.

[PsychoBlonde]

In the end knight enchanter is still a tank. The problem now is that the reduced damage just make the fights go longer.

 

And they were often quite tedious before.  Oh well, I'll live.  I've long since lost interest in playing anything above normal difficulty, anyway.

[AppalachianAxis]

Darn. And I was just thinking of doing my very first run with a Knight-Enchanter specialization. Is it still worth playing as?

[In Exile]

I don't mean to sound rude, but you do realize that you've just proven yourself wrong, don't you? As you have said, Fade Shield generates a barrier which is equivalent to 30% of the damage you've dealt, therefore cutting Spirit Blade's damage from 300% to 150% also halves the barrier you get when you hit someone (and don't forget that barrier/guard bonus damage has been cut as well, hitting an enemy with a barrier on meant having a full barrier cast on yourself with two hits). Combat Clarity makes you regen mana faster when you're in a 5-meter radius from your foes, but why would you want to be that close if you're playing ranged? Now, let's take a look at the other two passives: Veiled Riposte makes enemies who hit you recieve 20% of their damage back when you have a barrier on while Knight Protector makes your barrier last longer. It is clear that the purpose of the class was to be a melee mage: of course, you could add perks from other skill lines to build your character in a different way, but that's not the point: a Knight Enchanter is supposed to go straight to an enemy and whack it with his glorious, shining magical blade, gaining a barrier in the process (and a lot more than what you'd get with your ranged attacks), regaining your mana faster, and deflecting part of their damage back to them.
Even the other two non-focus active skills support this theory: Fade Cloak lets you become ethereal to escape bad situations, and its upgrade Decloaking Blast lets you come back with a big surprise; Disruption Field instead lets you create a small bubble that slows enemies down, allowing you to smash them with your Spirit Blade even more.

It is perfectly clear that Knight Enchanters were meant to be played like that. As I have said before, of course anyone can play the way he or she prefers: if you want to pick up Knight Enchanter as specialization only because of the self-generating barrier and then play as a ranged mage, that's fine. If you want to mix up those skills with others from the other trees to create combos, that's fine as well. But it really isn't fine when people complain because they don't like how other people play. I have always played as a Knight Enchanter, because I have fallen in love at first sight with Spirit Blade and I loved how I could use it as my primary and only weapon. Now, with this upgrade, I feel like I've been majorly screwed, because the only way I liked to play this game has been taken away from me. Having to charge up Spirit Blade with other spells only to use it three/four times then having to charge it up again isn't just fun. I still had to buy the DLCs, and at this point I'm not going to buy them anymore. Not as a mean of protest against BioWare but only because this game has went from awesome to boring in just one night.

(sorry for the long reply, I'm quite emotional about games and when I have something at heart I tend to ramble a lot)

You're still wrong. Barrier generation doesn't come from spamming SB - it comes from direct damage abilities like energy barrage, fire mine, etc. Fade Cloak is OP not just because of the damage but because of the short term invincibility and cooldown. Same with clean burn. Fire mine does absurd damage, energy barrage is better, etc.

You're *still* taking advantage of all of the KE mana regen and barrier regen abilities when you Fade step into melee, draw aggro, and detonate mines. On nightmare. That's always been my playstyle, and I've easily slaughtered my way across nightmare with it.

The KE is not the a specialisation that's supposed to live off its skill tree alone. That's why - unlike Rift mage - it doesn't (in theory) get a bonus off using or inflicting a particular state on enemies.

You're not supposed to be spamming SB anymore than as a warrior you're supposed to auto-attack. The damage comes from the synergy with other spell trees.

I understand you like spamming SB. I feel awful for you that Bioware has taken away your much beloved playstyle. I wish they didn't.

All I'm saying is that the KE is not, IMO, in any way nerfed by this change.

[Jaison1986]

Maybe not exactly nerfed, but this change surely killed the playstyle so many of us got used to. And I actually had a good build that did not involved SB spam. I also extensively used fade cloak, disruption field, winter's grasp and fade step depending on the situation. Now that is no longer possible since SB is not strong enough to generate barriers on it's own, forcing me to use other spells I didn't felt like using before.

[Alley Cat]

So, I'm over here playing on casual, trying to fight a dragon two levels lower than me (keep in mind, before this patch, I was able to lay waste to one of an equal level) and I realize that something has gone horribly wrong both with my barrier regeneration and my mana regeneration - and the fact the dragon keeps being able to step on me when in the past I'd do enough Spirit Blade damage to the leg to stop it.

 

Turns out, Spirit Blade now is not only nerfed but appears to either be resetting or consuming a huge portion of mana regeneration. So what is there to do to keep barriers up as a Knight Enchanter while waiting on mana regen? Oh, right, spamming another bloody button - one with almost no impact comparatively that's also best used at a range (again, why bother being a KE now, if you're forced to do everything ranged?!) - the trigger for basic staff attack. Words cannot explain how frustrated I am with this after realizing that... and spending ten or so finger-hurting minutes spamming trigger in the hopes my barrier wouldn't die while I waited on mana regeneration because I can no longer use Spirit Blade during those lulls.

 

My mage is no longer a badass magical warrior. She's a pathetic child who needs to go back to the circle because she can't even manage her energy well enough to effectively swing a blade while her mana regenerates. Not just any blade, but the one she had to craft by hand to even be accepted by her mentor. But no, she can't possibly use it at will, it's such a difficult and energy-consuming thing; never mind that wielding it was her - and every Knight-Enchanter's - first skill learned as a KE and therefore the one she's most practiced and familiar with. Disgraceful! Who in the world thought this was a good idea?!

 

And really, it doesn't even change that she's more or less unkillable so long as a button is spammed. (Seriously, it just took a frustratingly longer amount of time, but so long as I kept spamming trigger, she could stand directly in dragon breath and not get hurt.) It just changes which button, and takes away the awesomeness of playing the class. Because now while she tries to keep her barriers up, she's standing on the sidelines like any other generic mage, firing off basic attacks that do almost no damage, looking like a fool instead of rushing in and stabbing the enemy like a true 'warrior'/tank.

 

It's not fun anymore. It's infuriating. If it weren't for the Golden Nug and my mage's awesome schematics, I'd shelve her right now and never come back to playing a Knight-Enchanter. My favourite class/specialization combination has basically been destroyed... and for what? They haven't just nerfed the iconic power of the class, they've basically said "screw you, now you have to learn an entirely new strategy/play style/method of managing resources because the way you play in the privacy of your own single player game just isn't good enough for us" and to me that's just... it's wrong on so many levels.

 

If this had come maybe one or two months after the game was released, I'd perhaps understand it a bit more. It could be chalked up to 'they realized it wasn't fitting the vision they had for the specialization.' I'm not sure how that'd be logical, since KE is supposed to be a melee mage, but I'll suspend disbelief for the hypothetical in this. If it had come that soon, it'd make sense. To come this late in the game is just not okay. Not fair. And kind of infuriating. (And again, if I felt like using the other spells extensively, I'd have become a different kind of mage than the one meant to be a melee fighter.)

[ToloCosmicBoy]

You're still wrong. Barrier generation doesn't come from spamming SB - it comes from direct damage abilities like energy barrage, fire mine, etc. Fade Cloak is OP not just because of the damage but because of the short term invincibility and cooldown. Same with clean burn. Fire mine does absurd damage, energy barrage is better, etc.

You're *still* taking advantage of all of the KE mana regen and barrier regen abilities when you Fade step into melee, draw aggro, and detonate mines. On nightmare. That's always been my playstyle, and I've easily slaughtered my way across nightmare with it.

The KE is not the a specialisation that's supposed to live off its skill tree alone. That's why - unlike Rift mage - it doesn't (in theory) get a bonus off using or inflicting a particular state on enemies.

You're not supposed to be spamming SB anymore than as a warrior you're supposed to auto-attack. The damage comes from the synergy with other spell trees.

I understand you like spamming SB. I feel awful for you that Bioware has taken away your much beloved playstyle. I wish they didn't.

All I'm saying is that the KE is not, IMO, in any way nerfed by this change.

Aha, I think I've found the reason why we disagree: I have never played on nightmare. As someone has already stated, I'm one of those that plays for the story and for fun, not to have a challenge. Playing on regular I have always had more than enough barrier just by smashing enemies with my sword. Of course I used some other skills, usually Fade Step to get into melee and Energy Barrage when enemies were just too far. Never used Cleanse Burn and Fire Mine though, I usually put my other points on the spirit tree to get those nice passives such as stronger barrier and faster mana regen while having a barrier.

On two things you stated I'll have to disagree though: first, KE are actually able to live off of just their skill tree (well, at least in casual - as I have said, I have never played on nightmare) and second, I still believe that this has been a very huge nerf to KE; a great damage bonus on a couple of hits will never offset the enormously huge reduction in raw damage of the sword (but that's just my opinion based on my playstyle which is based on using only Spirit Blade).

[Elhanan]

AFAIK, Spirit Blade still acts as a detonator which is useful for combos.

And I just finished off a Winter Dragon in The Lion as a KE on Nightmare; seemed effective to me, though I already alternated with spells.

[OdanUrr]

AFAIK, Spirit Blade still acts as a detonator which is useful for combos.

And I just finished off a Winter Dragon in The Lion as a KE on Nightmare; seemed effective to me, though I already alternated with spells.

 

Show-off.

[squirrely1]

 I haven't tested my KE Mage abilities out yet since the patch but this does worry me.   I think a change this big to a specialization really shouldn't have come out this late in the game and in a patch no less.  If they thought the KE was too OP then tough toe nails is how I look at it...

[EvilChani]

Hooray! I made a fix for PC players.

 

You ROCK!!! Thank you so much! Now I won't have to delete my KE for being wussified to the point where she might as well stay home while the big boys go out to play. Seriously, without mods, this game would not have as high of a replay value, in my eyes. Whee! 

[Elhanan]

Show-off.

Not bragging; am simply cleaning up post-campaign quests before the Trespasser epilogue. And if one does not get all those Shards, the Resist potions are a treasure in themselves.

[Tony208]

I was in the middle of my very first KE playthrough on nightmare when this "nerf" came and it basically changed nothing for me other than making barriers and guard take a little longer to bring down.

[jedidotflow]

So finally the gameplay also reflects the Mature rating? This is good.

[Reaver102]

I was in the middle of my very first KE playthrough on nightmare when this "nerf" came and it basically changed nothing for me other than making barriers and guard take a little longer to bring down.

It's still pretty good at chunking through armor, a full stacked SB was removing all the armor off a dragon for me in its 3 swing rotation.  I never really used it for barriers because most things that have barriers just fly away when you close for melee so I always relied on dispell.  

[paintandbass]

Any time I read someone saying something along the lines of "they shouldn't nerf a skill in a single player game," it always translates to the same thing to me- "I'm not good enough."

KE was way overpowered. Massively so. Everyone knew it. There are comments and videos dating back to the first week showing nightmare dragon solo battles where the player (or Viv) was never in any danger.

Fade Shield alone makes KEs superpowered. People saying they can no longer charge into battle are full of it; Spirit Blade isn't what made you able to charge into battle like the warriors and stay on the front lines- it was Fade Shield, and producing enough damage to keep it up still is incredibly fast and easy. Warriors have a similar "hard to kill" aspect- the trade off was that they just didn't do that much damage. Spirit Blade gave you way more damage than you should be putting out as a warrior when considering guard and barrier damage, and was basically an "I win" button. Plus you got to keep all the CC aspects of a mage. Overkill.

I completely gave up on an earlier KE build as it felt like an exploit using Spirit Blade all the time. The temptation to spam Spirit Blade was just too great if I allowed myself that option, and it just made the game way too easy. My last playthrough (always on Nightmare) was as a KE, except I didn't take Fade Shield and I never used Spirit Blade. It made for a much more interesting and creative playstyle and experience. Decloaking Blast and Disruption Field alone made for an excellent and powerful combo; time it right and you can pop enemies in the air and freeze them on the way down where you can continue hitting them. I also had the knowledge that I could actually die, as opposed to the standard KE builds that really don't have to worry about that. I'm actually excited to try using Spirit Blade again now.

Spirit Blade wasn't nerfed. It's the players who relied on Spirit Blade who were nerfing the world around them.

[The Baconer]

Fade Shield alone makes KEs superpowered. People saying they can no longer charge into battle are full of it; Spirit Blade isn't what made you able to charge into battle like the warriors and stay on the front lines- it was Fade Shield, and producing enough damage to keep it up still is incredibly fast and easy. Warriors have a similar "hard to kill" aspect- the trade off was that they just didn't do that much damage. Spirit Blade gave you way more damage than you should be putting out as a warrior when considering guard and barrier damage, and was basically an "I win" button. Plus you got to keep all the CC aspects of a mage. Overkill.

 

A KE could never, ever hope to match the Warrior's DPS potential.

[Gaesesagai]

https://www.reddit.c...ty_upgrade_for/

 

I think not. You can boost the damage of your lightsaber spirit blade well beyond the pre-patch levels with the Force your spells. Couple that with Conductive Current and the lightsaber spirit blade will be very powerful now in terms outright damage.

 

Before this, Knight Enchanter = Spirit Blade spammer. This adds a new depth to the Knight Enchanter that was previously missing.

 

Now you have to be more tactical with using Spirit Blade.

 

What's more, the damage to guard and barrier is still there. Previously, it was too much.

 

Additionally, the lightsaber spirit blade still has a low mana cost.

 

IMO, this is not a nerf because it opens up new ways to play the Knight Enchanter.

 

What most of us must realize is that the core of the Knight Enchanter specialization is Fade Shield, in the same way the Restorative Veil is the core of Rift Mage, Simulacrum is the core of Necromancer and Opportunity Knocks is the core of the Artificer.

 

This is complete nonsense.

 

First of all, even at max "stupid stacks" (the new awesome feature), SB does a lot less damage then before. I've tested this on several enemies, but the most easy to verify is the giants in Emerald, since I used to farm them a lot for gold. Before patch dumb ten, my SB would crit for 2600-2700 damage. Now, even with max stacks it never even hits 2k.

I haven't seen enemies with guard/barrier, but it's pretty obvious it would be tedious.

 

And no, this change doesn't make any sense and is in no way logical. It's a single player game. A lot of people enjoyed and had fun with KE as it was, and more importantly they fk picked the KE specialization BECAUSE of how it was designed. Now everyone who enjoyed that gets a big middle finger from Bioware. Why? Because fk you that's why. There's no logic or reason that would justify it. Again... SINGLE PLAYER. Did you get that? SINGLE PLAYER! You need it repeated?

 

All this ridiculous nonsense about it being op it just so tiresome. And irational, but mostly tiresome. And then BAM! Bioware listens to the nonsense. Well done.

 

I think I need to take another break from the game lol, maybe even wait to buy the dlc on discount or something. Meh, I can't wait lol. Thing is, the main reason I support any and all Bioware games is starting to be something not exclusive to Bioware anymore. Gah! Soon I'll be able to just ignore their games and the silly stuff they do sometimes. And this SB thing... one of the most idiotic silly things.

[paintandbass]

A KE could never, ever hope to match the Warrior's DPS potential.

Sure it could, and would go way beyond when considering barrier and guard damage. Two swings, almost no mana cost, and no cooldown and you've done 1000% guard damage. Weapon damage numbers are lower, but your swings are all spirit damage, with rune damage stacked on top. No armor mitigating damage that physical damage warriors have to deal with, no elemental resistance to spirit damage, lots of enemies weak to spirit damage, and you simply melted guard and barrier. And every swing increased your defense too.