52 réponses à ce sujet

[pdusen]

I have to say that the repeated assertion in this thread that Bioware games historically haven't had good hair because they have no one on staff who can design or implement them is getting really, really old.

[Nefla]

I have to say that the repeated assertion in this thread that Bioware games historically haven't had good hair because they have no one on staff who can design or implement them is getting really, really old.

What do you think the actual reason is then? Spite?

[pdusen]

What do you think the actual reason is then? Spite?

 

I expect the actual reason is logistical, just like the 10,000 other things that never make it into a game.

[CrabbyCrackers]

Maybe they could hire who ever did dragons dogma character customization.

[duckley]

Well - for me I just find it odd that when so much effort is put into such incredible detail in the game and yet the hair in both style and texture is so very sub- par

 

OMG the patterns of tile on the bridges, the caterpillar chewed leaf in the hinterlands, the pounding surf complete with white crested waves, the wonderful statues cracking and old and full of secrets lying here, there and everywhere....brilliant and then the hair.... the hair that sometimes looks like dried ramen noodles or that it has been plastered onto your Quizzy's head seems incongruous with all  the rest of the incredible art and design in the game.

 

I really would love to know what about the hair design and texture was the challenge, when we know it can be done in older. lesser games.

[Nefla]

I expect the actual reason is logistical, just like the 10,000 other things that never make it into a game.

Hair did make it into the game. Someone spent the time to make X number of hairstyles, it was just poorly done. Besides, the appearance of almost every character including the PC in a character and story focused game is kind of more important than "there was going to be an optional card game" or "we wanted to have people comment on the amount of blood and dirt on your party's clothes which will accumulate over time." BioWare's hair is below average and most of the chosen styles are horrendous.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

I hope by that they mean they'll hire new people to make the hairstyles. Some that are good at modeling the hair and some that are fashionable and have an eye for aesthetics as advisors so we don't end up with a bunch of Miley Cyrus variations, mullets, schoolmarm buns, old granny with super short bangs, random shaved parts, extreme receding hairlines that are pointy, sideburns on everything, etc...

 

I've said it before, in another thread, but it seems fitting here.

 

Dear Bioware, it's called male pattern baldness for a reason.

[pdusen]

Hair did make it into the game. Someone spent the time to make X number of hairstyles, it was just poorly done. Besides, the appearance of almost every character including the PC in a character and story focused game is kind of more important than "there was going to be an optional card game" or "we wanted to have people comment on the amount of blood and dirt on your party's clothes which will accumulate over time." BioWare's hair is below average and most of the chosen styles are horrendous.

 

I don't know how I could have made it more obvious that I was talking about implementing better hair physics and rendering, which are both features that would allow them to have a wider variety of better hair styles, and not whatever it is you thought I was talking about.

 

As for how important hair is, I'd venture to say that it's not a majority of people that feel as strongly about it as you do.

[Halfdan The Menace]

I know... can we atleast get some decent hairs other than generic NPC haircuts/styles? knowing Bioware, they probably would do this;

Spoiler

instead of this;

Spoiler

[Arshei]

They can make ugly beards but not decent hairs!

[Nefla]

I don't know how I could have made it more obvious that I was talking about implementing better hair physics and rendering, which are both features that would allow them to have a wider variety of better hair styles, and not whatever it is you thought I was talking about.

 

As for how important hair is, I'd venture to say that it's not a majority of people that feel as strongly about it as you do.

Well, for starters you could have said "people saying BioWare is incapable of doing hair physics is getting really old" rather than "have to say that the repeated assertion in this thread that Bioware games historically haven't had good hair because they have no one on staff who can design or implement them is getting really, really old."  Seriously man, read your own post. You say nothing about hair physics and the choice to add sideburns to everything, add weird pointy shaved temples, and generally pick ugly styles when there are plenty of nice looking styles that wouldn't have taken any more effort than the ones they made was a choice, not a technical limitation. The vast majority of people who complain about BioWare's hair complain about the ugly styles and poor modeling and texturing. The only two replies to this thread that mentioned hair physics did not mention BioWare being unable to implement it. I'd venture to say that whether they feel strongly about it or not, a majority of people would see the hair in DA:I and think it looks bad compared to the texturing and modeling of everything else in DA:I and compared to other current games. Across different games with different engines, BioWare's hair is bad and the style choices seem to keep getting worse what reason do you imagine there is for that?

[pdusen]

Across different games with different engines, BioWare's hair is bad and the style choices seem to keep getting worse what reason do you imagine there is for that?

 

As I already said, I imagine the problem is logistical. I imagine that adding more and better hair styles is a higher priority than some things and a lower priority than others, and the higher priority things have been keeping them from tackling it so far, so we've been getting what might be considered "just enough to be adequate".

[Nefla]

As I already said, I imagine the problem is logistical. I imagine that adding more and better hair styles is a higher priority than some things and a lower priority than others, and the higher priority things have been keeping them from tackling it so far, so we've been getting what might be considered "just enough to be adequate".

Hair is always the most modded thing in BioWare games, there are always complaints about the hair. If they were capable of doing a better job (since they're already doing SOMETHING) and why wouldn't they? Why would making a more complex hairstyle that is not stylish be better than making a simpler and better looking style? Whoever might be making these hairstyles seem unskilled and completely out of touch. They're not adequate. The Qunari hair especially looks like something you might find in the original Xbox/PS2 era of games only less well thought out and less appealing. What "logistical problem" forced them to add sideburns to nearly every style? What logistical problem made it so they had to have random shaved patches and pointy male pattern baldness on so many styles? Here's an example of what I mean

*normal sized bun

[pdusen]

Hair is always the most modded thing in BioWare games, there are always complaints about the hair. If they were capable of doing a better job (since they're already doing SOMETHING) and why wouldn't they?

 

It's possible that the fact modders are so diligent about it makes them feel less pressured to make it a priority.

[SurelyForth]

It's possible that the fact modders are so diligent about it makes them feel less pressured to make it a priority.

 

That's possible, but I think it's an over all lack of prioritization coupled with the fact that FB does not play well with hair. I won't argue that their style direction was good, because the hairs are uniformly not great, but I think it was probably due to a lot of the hair budget going towards making it work (and work across old and new gen)- styling being a secondary concern to ensuring that non-buzzcut hair could be a thing. 

[Nefla]

It's possible that the fact modders are so diligent about it makes them feel less pressured to make it a priority.

Yet they know PC players aren't the only ones playing.

 

I definitely stand by my belief that whoever is making these hairstyle decisions has no taste or fashion sense. Even if they have the skill to make their hair match other current gen games and they just rushed it because reasons, there is no alternative reason for those baffling style choices that actually require additional effort.

[actionhero112]

Probably difficult to do with clipping issues on large weapons, shields and quivers. 

[Nefla]

Probably difficult to do with clipping issues on large weapons, shields and quivers. 

They didn't seem to care about clipping on any of the other hundreds of things that clip though my dwarf's shield clips through her head when she's walking around.

[actionhero112]

They didn't seem to care about clipping on any of the other hundreds of things that clip though

 

Maybe the clipping issues we do see just slipped through. Regardless, that's not actually a way around the clipping issues that long hair presents, it's just an attempt to subvert the issue. 

 

There are long hair mods out there, but I flat out refuse to use them because of their various clipping issues. As well as the fact that while static hair is passable on short styles of hair,  it looks atrocious on long hair. And then there is even more issues if you animate the hair due to more clipping, so you have to implement collision and that's a lot of resources just for hair.

[Felya87]

They didn't seem to care about clipping on any of the other hundreds of things that clip though my dwarf's shield clips through her head when she's walking around.

same for the hand of my male elf and the book of the mage coat.  and clipping doesn't explain the choice of all the manly balding patterns. I don't think the hairline can clip with anything...

and hair disappear while wearing any kind of helmet. So no clipping at all.

[SurelyForth]

The existence of clipping in the game does not mean that they don't care about clipping, nor is it a good argument in the Hair Debate. The game would be an absolute visual nightmare if they were like "welp, this sword slighty clips the hood of this armor on female humans, I guess we can include the Pretty Ponytail of Impalement, after all."

[Savvie]

I have to say that long hair in Dragon's Dogma and the Witcher 3 didn't clip in a way that I particularly noticed. Below is a picture of Geralt with a medium length hair cut. His beard, which I had let get too shaggy, (amazingly  it actually grows in game if you don't go to the barber regularly) slightly touches this version of armour.

 

I also appreciate the quality of the hair. It looks like it has strands and actually moves when you walk, it blows in the wind.... incredible work by that team. So I am not sure why long and even flowing hair is not achievable for Bioware. Clearly the technology exists, but maybe not on frostbite?

 

[post='']Geralt[/post]

 

Witcher 3 hair is leagues above DAI in quality and style. Bioware could have at least put in some effort to create differing hairstyles for shoulder length, braids, ponytails, etc., instead of so many stupid buzzed styles. Thank goodness for what modders have been able to pull through for the hair travesty.

 

I still think it was a mistake that Bioware chose the frostbite engine and especially an engine that was very complicated for them to work with. It makes me worried for Mass Effect Andromeda since they are using it for that game too, but it's not like ME games have ever been stellar in the hair department.

[Enigmatick]

I think you'll find it's a bit late for this game. They've said next game they'll change the approach to hair styles.

I hope that approach is "make hairstyles that actually fit the setting".

[Nefla]

Maybe the clipping issues we do see just slipped through. Regardless, that's not actually a way around the clipping issues that long hair presents, it's just an attempt to subvert the issue. 

 

There are long hair mods out there, but I flat out refuse to use them because of their various clipping issues. As well as the fact that while static hair is passable on short styles of hair,  it looks atrocious on long hair. And then there is even more issues if you animate the hair due to more clipping, so you have to implement collision and that's a lot of resources just for hair.

I would definitely rather have some clipping and have static hair than have the hair we got in ME3 or DA:I. I don't care if the hair is long or not, I just don't want it to look like something from a game made 10 years ago and designed by a 90 year old grandmother who thinks she's hip with the kids

 

The existence of clipping in the game does not mean that they don't care about clipping, nor is it a good argument in the Hair Debate. The game would be an absolute visual nightmare if they were like "welp, this sword slighty clips the hood of this armor on female humans, I guess we can include the Pretty Ponytail of Impalement, after all."

It's not just two incompatible pieces of equipment slightly overlapping sometimes, there are serious clipping issues everywhere in the game. The fact that so many things clip to such a huge degree such as the elf arms, most collars cutting through half of my Qunari's face during cutscenes, shields stabbing into the back of my dwarf's head, everyone's hands clipping through their arms when they cross them, etc...means that they're not as super anal about clipping as we're lead to believe. Most people that want nice looking hair don't want some crazy, floor length anime style. They want something that looks like it was modeled this decade and designed by someone who knows about fashion as well as what's appropriate for the setting. Look at these ideas that myself and other people came up with and tell me why nothing like any of them would have been able to be implemented. Most of them would not clip, some have the possibility of clipping slightly depending on facial structure.

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/IcM4QHU.png?1?7199

http://36.media.tumb...dhue7o1_500.png

[duckley]

I don't buy the clipping issue simply because there are other games in which clipping with long hair is minimal to non-existent. I also don't buy the priority issue. They made a lot of hair styles. 13 or 14 baldish buzz buts and about the same number of sideburnish/punk/elderly grandmotherly/receding hairline/manish  hairdos. Why make so many  (lousy) hair styles if you don't think hair is enough of a priority.

 

I would prefer quality to quantity. I also would have appreciated one or two feminine hair styles.