77 réponses à ce sujet

[Zekka]

ME1 was the simplest. it had far fewer ways of evolving powers, and the weapons skills that were ditched by ME2 were brought back in a more dynamic way in the form of a weapon upgrade and weight system. the ME1 classes weren't as defined, and the gameplay sucked. Investing enough points into a particular weapon was also OP as ****, because in the case of pistols it meant you could fire almost indefinitely without pause, and assault rifles didn't recoil or spread at all at the higher levels, so basically your ability to shoot was defined by only skill point investment and a linear progression of "weapon type I-X", with the occasional unique armor mod or specter weapon. Yet another example of character class and loadout mattering less than ME2 and 3.

The Weight system in ME3 was kind of BS and shouldn't be brought back unless it will actually affect how fast your character moved.

What you meant was that picking the correct upgrades allowed you to fire indefinitely, it wasn't because of what points you put into the skill.

[Broganisity]

Less than some would hope, more than some people would fear.

[MrFob]

The Weight system in ME3 was kind of BS and shouldn't be brought back unless it will actually affect how fast your character moved.

 

I'd hate that. I think cooldowns is more than enough incentive to be careful about your weapon choice. I would agree that it doesn't make much sense in terms of logic. Why would weight affect cooldown? But I can accept that as a pure gameplay mechanic. Maybe they could just come up with some new name and some explanation. I just know, I hate penalties that restrict/slow movement. It just makes things tedious.

[Mdizzletr0n]

I'm gonna say 15%. Which is 35-40% less than I'd personally like. Lol

[Mdizzletr0n]

The Weight system in ME3 was kind of BS and shouldn't be brought back unless it will actually affect how fast your character moved.
What you meant was that picking the correct upgrades allowed you to fire indefinitely, it wasn't because of what points you put into the skill.

Weight affecting movement would be too logical. Lol

[Zekka]

I'd hate that. I think cooldowns is more than enough incentive to be careful about your weapon choice. I would agree that it doesn't make much sense in terms of logic. Why would weight affect cooldown? But I can accept that as a pure gameplay mechanic. Maybe they could just come up with some new name and some explanation. I just know, I hate penalties that restrict/slow movement. It just makes things tedious.

They should just remove it completely.

One thing mass effect 1 did well enough is that different classes had knowledge on how to use all weapons but all classes weren't equal in weapon skill.
Just bring that back. Your aiming and damage output will be worse if you're an adept using an assault rifle. Maybe down the line in the story, some other character can teach you how to properly use one but by that point you won't have enough points to master the skill.

I have no problem with weapon weight affecting movement, I'd expect it to not affect the soldier class as much since they should be used to carrying so many weapons and there could be a skill to alleviate the slow movement.
Same thing with the player wearing heavy armor or power armor, I wouldn't have a problem with the player moving a bit slower if they got much greater protection from the armor.

One step they could take is that heavy armor or power armor would provide much greater damage protection than light and medium armor but the player would move slower, have slower sprint speed and wouldn't be able to evade frequently.

[pdusen]

Every game is fun to someone, it wouldn't hurt to flesh things out in the series like combat, factions and some of it's rpg mechanics

 

Perhaps, but not all RPG mechanics are always fun to everyone. For example, Inventory and gear management in ME1 wasn't fun, in my opinion. I felt they detracted from the game. I thought ME3's system was a lot more solid, even if it wasn't that complex.

[Cyonan]

One thing mass effect 1 did well enough is that different classes had knowledge on how to use all weapons but all classes weren't equal in weapon skill.
Just bring that back. Your aiming and damage output will be worse if you're an adept using an assault rifle. Maybe down the line in the story, some other character can teach you how to properly use one but by that point you won't have enough points to master the skill.

 

I hope that idea never comes back. It was a terrible idea to link weapon accuracy to a stat in a game that also expected you to manually aim your weapon.

 

I also feel like weapon weight was kind of a failed experiment. We ended up finding on the ME3 MP boards that you were just better off taking a mid-weight weapon that didn't have completely embarrassing damage output over 200% recharge and a Shuriken.

 

At least until you had a high level Hurricane or Talon and could get the best of both worlds anyway.

 

It might have worked better if abilities that have cooldowns had significantly better damage output.

[MrFob]

They should just remove it completely.

One thing mass effect 1 did well enough is that different classes had knowledge on how to use all weapons but all classes weren't equal in weapon skill.
Just bring that back. Your aiming and damage output will be worse if you're an adept using an assault rifle. Maybe down the line in the story, some other character can teach you how to properly use one but by that point you won't have enough points to master the skill.

 
I don't know, that would depend on the setting and the main character IMO. If it's a less military background, it may be ok. For Shepard, it wasn't exactly an ideal solution either. I remember plenty of people complaining that it's weird that Shepard, being a trained top tier spec ops (i.e. N7) soldier can't use a shotgun or a sniper rifle at all basically, just because he's specialized to be a combat engineer. Especially because they can (and in ME1 even must) bring the extra weapons. Why would that be?
I just recently wrote a little fictional description of the battle against the Thorian on Feros and why guys switched to shotguns, I had a hard time explaining why Shepard's shotgun would overheat after 2 shots, just because he was no soldier/vanguard.
 
So much for the story reasoning. In terms of pure gameplay, I thought the weapon choices vs. cooldown time worked really well in ME3.
 

I hope that idea never comes back. It was a terrible idea to link weapon accuracy to a stat in a game that also expected you to manually aim your weapon.

 

Really? I didn't mind the accuracy thing, thought that actually makes sense (in terms of story) and it works for gameplay. I wonder why people seem to hate it that much in ME1 when everyone loves Deus Ex.

[Mdizzletr0n]

The biggest problem with ME1s inventory/gear management to me was that you just ended up getting 20 of the same items. Which is ok i suppose for more common items but damn near everything was common. It would've benefitted from a "junk" sub-inventory like DA had.Trash it or sell it. Also, the same exact items at the same time on every play through. I'd have liked for it to have been more randomized.

[Mdizzletr0n]

I don't know, that would depend on the setting and the main character IMO. If it's a less military background, it may be ok. For Shepard, it wasn't exactly an ideal solution either. I remember plenty of people complaining that it's weird that Shepard, being a trained top tier spec ops (i.e. N7) soldier can't use a shotgun or a sniper rifle at all basically, just because he's specialized to be a combat engineer. Especially because they can (and in ME1 even must) bring the extra weapons. Why would that be?
I just recently wrote a little fictional description of the battle against the Thorian on Feros and why guys switched to shotguns, I had a hard time explaining why Shepard's shotgun would overheat after 2 shots, just because he was no soldier/vanguard.

So much for the story reasoning. In terms of pure gameplay, I thought the weapon choices vs. cooldown time worked really well in ME3.


Really, I didn't mind the accuracy thing. I wonder why people seem to hate it that much in ME1 when everyone loves Deus Ex.

Me neither. If anything, skill points affecting accuracy makes more sense than increasing the damage caused by space bullets.

[Cyonan]

 

Really, I didn't mind the accuracy thing. I wonder why people seem to hate it that much in ME1 when everyone loves Deus Ex.

 

Well, I think it's also stupid in Deus Ex too =P

 

I will note that weapon spread tied to the gun is one thing. You know what you're getting into with the Hurricane and it's balanced around having an unwieldy bullet spread.

 

but I find it stupid when in say, Fallout 3 the Hunting Rifle that is supposed to be an accurate weapon ends up firing into no man's land because I only had 20 gun skill. In general I dislike systems that require I aim manually and then also ties my weapon's bullet spread into a character stat.

 

If you absolutely want to go with something like that then I'd prefer the sniper rifle from Mass Effect 1 where the gun was always pinpoint accuracy but the gun sway was very high at lower skill levels. The game never rolled an arbitrary chance to miss for what should have been a high accuracy weapon, but it was more difficult for the player to aim it without points spent on the skill.

[Mcfly616]

Ok fair enough but in that case I am also not sure what you are talking about. Is it the MAKO exploration (which was the only part of the game where ME1 was less of a shooter than ME2/3)? 'Cause that is clearly coming back in ME:A if the statements of the devs so far can be believed and if the teaser is any indication.

 yes, the Mako sections and simply landing on uncharted worlds opened up the gameplay a great deal. Certainly a welcome return in ME:A, seeing as how it was sorely missed during the monotonous corridor sprints of the sequels.

[MrFob]

yes, the Mako sections and simply landing on uncharted worlds opened up the gameplay a great deal. Certainly a welcome return in ME:A, seeing as how it was sorely missed during the monotonous corridor sprints of the sequels.

Oh, ok, in that case I agree. Was just a bit confused because before you said

Considering the straight-ahead shooterific sequels that departed from the original vision of the series, I'd expect more of what we've been getting since ME2. Hopefully I'm wrong, but it's unlikely.

And since it looks like the MAKO thing is coming back, I am not sure what aspects, specific to ME1 you don't think will be coming back.

@Cyonan: It's a matter of taste, I guess. I don't mind the spread in ME1 because we always get some feedback on how bad it is with the size of the aiming circle. So you know what you are getting into with each weapon (although I do think it was weird that Shepard apparently can't even find the scope of a sniper rifle if he is not specifically trained for it ).
I also liked the way Alpha Protocol handled the issue. There, you can be very accurate with any weapon in principle but with lower proficiency it takes longer to aim properly. This mostly makes sense if you have some form of stealth gameplay though, I guess. In ME, you'd hardly ever have the time to line up a shot properly anyway unless you were really good with the weapon. Also, seeing how AP was bashed quite a lot for it's "clunky" gameplay, I seem to be the minority.

[Zekka]

 

 

If you absolutely want to go with something like that then I'd prefer the sniper rifle from Mass Effect 1 where the gun was always pinpoint accuracy but the gun sway was very high at lower skill levels. The game never rolled an arbitrary chance to miss for what should have been a high accuracy weapon, but it was more difficult for the player to aim it without points spent on the skill.

This is more of what I meant when I said that a system in which all class had knowledge to use weapons but not equal skill should be implemented. Add more weapon sway for classes that aren't specialized with certain weapons and don't allow those classes to level up skills for said weapon type.

 

 

The biggest problem with ME1s inventory/gear management to me was that you just ended up getting 20 of the same items. Which is ok i suppose for more common items but damn near everything was common. It would've benefitted from a "junk" sub-inventory like DA had.Trash it or sell it. Also, the same exact items at the same time on every play through. I'd have liked for it to have been more randomized.

 

 

Perhaps, but not all RPG mechanics are always fun to everyone. For example, Inventory and gear management in ME1 wasn't fun, in my opinion. I felt they detracted from the game. I thought ME3's system was a lot more solid, even if it wasn't that complex.

Truthfully, I don't know why ME1's inventory and gear management and UI was so bad since Bio have done much better before.

[Jaquio]

Well when Mass Effect 1 came out, two of the main writers - Karphyshyn and L'Etoile - each came from RPG backgrounds (to the best of my knowledge Karpyshyn started with Baldurs Gate and L'Etoile started with Asheron's Call).

 

Chris Schlerf, on the other hand, comes from an FPS background in the Halo series.

 

 

Does that mean ME:A will or won't be an RPG?  Not necessarily.  But people in every enterprise, whether business or creative, tend to play towards their strengths. 

[Stormy]

I think most people come into these series' knowing that they're strong on storytelling; it's why a lot of us love them.  That they make the higher levels greater difficulties using combat and problem solving caters to those to whom stories are, or can be, and afterthought.  Considering it's Bioware, I think they're going to keep doing what they're doing: make a danged good story (regardless of how everyone thinks they should be writing it) and have people on board who can also make it a challenge for those of y'all who need combat in order to call it a game.

[dreamgazer]

Somewhere between ME3 and zero.

So ... ME2?

[Zekka]

Well when Mass Effect 1 came out, two of the main writers - Karphyshyn and L'Etoile - each came from RPG backgrounds (to the best of my knowledge Karpyshyn started with Baldurs Gate and L'Etoile started with Asheron's Call).

 

Chris Schlerf, on the other hand, comes from an FPS background in the Halo series.

 

 

Does that mean ME:A will or won't be an RPG?  Not necessarily.  But people in every enterprise, whether business or creative, tend to play towards their strengths. 

That's the Halo 4 guy, correct? I've heard the story of Halo 4 isn't good so I don't know how well this will turn out for ME: Andromeda

[RoboticWater]

Well when Mass Effect 1 came out, two of the main writers - Karphyshyn and L'Etoile - each came from RPG backgrounds (to the best of my knowledge Karpyshyn started with Baldurs Gate and L'Etoile started with Asheron's Call).

 

Chris Schlerf, on the other hand, comes from an FPS background in the Halo series.

 

 

Does that mean ME:A will or won't be an RPG?  Not necessarily.  But people in every enterprise, whether business or creative, tend to play towards their strengths. 

I don't think the lead writer has much to do with how complex an RPG is. They may have a little hand in how many story choices occur (in the main story), but choice density is probably determined early on with the creative director.

 

That's the Halo 4 guy, correct? I've heard the story of Halo 4 isn't good so I don't know how well this will turn out for ME: Andromeda

Yea. The only thing good about H4's story was the two main characters (and the bar was low to begin with for them). The rest was exposition dumps, nonsense plot and poorly developed characters.

[Cyonan]

This is more of what I meant when I said that a system in which all class had knowledge to use weapons but not equal skill should be implemented. Add more weapon sway for classes that aren't specialized with certain weapons and don't allow those classes to level up skills for said weapon type.

 

One thing to consider about it though is that there is hipfiring, which is very viable in Mass Effect and you wont have gun sway in that mode.

 

Well when Mass Effect 1 came out, two of the main writers - Karphyshyn and L'Etoile - each came from RPG backgrounds (to the best of my knowledge Karpyshyn started with Baldurs Gate and L'Etoile started with Asheron's Call).

 

Chris Schlerf, on the other hand, comes from an FPS background in the Halo series.

 

 

Does that mean ME:A will or won't be an RPG?  Not necessarily.  But people in every enterprise, whether business or creative, tend to play towards their strengths. 

 

Keep in mind that is just the lead writer. He doesn't get to decide how the gameplay itself plays out.

 

and for those who don't know, he is the guy that worked on Halo 4.

[Zekka]

I don't think the lead writer has much to do with how complex an RPG is. They may have a little hand in how many story choices occur (in the main story), but choice density is probably determined early on with the creative director.

 

Yea. The only thing good about H4's story was the two main characters (and the bar was low to begin with for them). The rest was exposition dumps, nonsense plot and poorly developed characters.

Seems weird because the Halo I knew had a simple story.

 

 

One thing to consider about it though is that there is hipfiring, which is very viable in Mass Effect and you wont have gun sway in that mode.

 

 

This is something that could be added, usually accuracy is worse in hip fire mode anyway.

[InterrogationBear]

I'm not sure if Chris Schlerf is still the lead writer. They removed his name from the dev team introduction article on the blog.

[Xaijin]

I hope that idea never comes back. It was a terrible idea to link weapon accuracy to a stat in a game that also expected you to manually aim your weapon.

I also feel like weapon weight was kind of a failed experiment. We ended up finding on the ME3 MP boards that you were just better off taking a mid-weight weapon that didn't have completely embarrassing damage output over 200% recharge and a Shuriken.

At least until you had a high level Hurricane or Talon and could get the best of both worlds anyway.

It might have worked better if abilities that have cooldowns had significantly better damage output.

Combos were supposed to be that bridge; 6/6/6/0/6 AAs breaking the gold skinner box curve proactively nerfed any potential that was going to generate were tech provided function and effect, weapons provided ablative and continual dps and Biotics provided either crippling intros or just plain old big ass explosions.

Shclerf

Oh I'm sure there still enough legacy there for humanity Embodiment of Perfection, the Pathfinder to defeat the nefarious Khet and fulfill the Remnant hyper-prophecy simply by existing. Seen the halo 5 intro? Somewhere Karen Traviss is making grunting noises and catching her crotch on fire after that one.

complexity

There'll be lots of things done the Bioware Way, we'll have romancing and derring-do only the Pathfinder can do to be did, and crisis of faith from your buddies only the Pathfinder can pathfind. If there's going to be nuance and longevity, it's going to most likely be in MP. SP will have EA SAFEGAURDS™ so that things will not become overly complicated or esoteric and people with a 90 IQ can finish the game un-interrupted and unhindered by stuff like best of bad situation choices or binary cut off decisions where the path you didn't take is blocked off forever, and not just for one chapter.

[RoboticWater]

Seems weird because the Halo I knew had a simple story.

The games do, but Bungie love their lore.

 

Basically, Shclerf dragged in every bit of it he could and assumed that the players knew most of it.