36 réponses à ce sujet

[ChromaticDecay]

Let's say I download a custom Morrigan or Leliana face and have it working in the game. But I want to change the hair style on it. When I open up a MOR in the toolset of course its just a bunch of number figures for the face and the hair and all. However I know I can make a custom face morph from scratch but it will be a MRH. My question is, how can I easily tweak the face and hair of a downloaded MOR file while being able to see the changes in realtime like the MRH editor???

It just doesn't make sense...

All I want to do is take an existing face and change it a bit without having to start from scratch.

I've looked all over the internet about this....

[TreDawn]

The actual 'design' file is the .mrh file which is usually not sent with mor file. As far as I know the mor file can't be edited 'real' time

[ChromaticDecay]

Surely there's a way to export the .mor to a .mrh.... I mean I know you can do it the other way around but...



Then how does anyone go about editing such a thing? Do they have to edit it then reload DA every time to see what it looks like???

[-Semper-]

no, because ingame it will look the same like in the toolset. you have to post to local your .mrh to get a mor file which can't be edited afterwards. to edit a downloaded head you need the .mrh by all means as far as i know.

[TreDawn]

Well, I suppose one could open mor file, expand and edit morph parts and morph tintfilenames, save, load game and see what exactly changed each an every edit. I can't imagine a more frustrating experience. Pretty sure my head would explode within 3 minutes.

[ChromaticDecay]

I wouldn't wana do that at all....



My new question is, why on earth don't the modders include the .mrh file with their .mor?

Are they that stuck up in ownership of their face morph??

[KEMKA]

maybe ask them for it?

[EJ42]

ChromaticDecay wrote...

I wouldn't wana do that at all....

My new question is, why on earth don't the modders include the .mrh file with their .mor?
Are they that stuck up in ownership of their face morph??

What good would the .mrh file do for a person who doesn't want to mess with the toolset?

You're under the mistaken impression that people are releasing builder-to-builder content.  Many/most are releasing content for players who can't be bothered to do it for themselves.  The .mor file is all those players need.

As for changing things like the hair, eye color, etc., that is quite trivial with the toolset, and not nearly as cumbersome as TreDawn makes it out to be.  Just create a new morph in the toolset, and play around with the hairstyles, eye colors, and other tints that you want.  As long as you don't want to change any of the geometry, you won't have any trouble.  When you like the hairstyle, tints, etc. just read off the values (e.g. hf_har_whatever), and paste them in the relevant node positions of the .mor file you like.

Modifié par EJ42, 28 janvier 2010 - 12:32 .

[Petehog]

ChromaticDecay wrote...

I wouldn't wana do that at all....

My new question is, why on earth don't the modders include the .mrh file with their .mor?
Are they that stuck up in ownership of their face morph??

If you have the MRH, you can do any change to the character design...anything.

If you only have the MOR, you are very limited. The only changes are skin color, eye color, hair color, blush, etc. Trying to tweak the face...is damn near impossible.

As for why modders don't give out mrh files, it's simple.

Most experienced morph artists who actually care about thier work..don't give out .mrh files because an .mrh is the thumbprint that proves you are the TRUE author. Someone could try to take your work and claim it as thiers, but they can't since you have the MRH files.

Another reason most morph artists don't give out MRH files is because face designs are HARD work.It's not easy. I've done face designs and graphic design my entire life but this toolset is not easy to work with. Why should I work on something for weeks..and have some guy just take my MRH file and add one dot on it. That's not how I roll.

People complain all the time that artists don't include MRH files or presets...but really rather than complaining..they should just learn to use the toolset themselves because it's much more rewarding when you create something awesome.

For a more advanced answer to the question above:

You can edit a .mor file. But only minor changes.

Also if you only have a .mor file, but no MRH it will never look like the genuine article. It will have the same eye shade, tints, etc. but it won't look like the real deal. The only way to get the "true preset" is from the mrh where it exports it as a "true preset". Don't believe me. Try getting a .mor file only and making a preset that looks EXACTLY like it. Not possible. It has similarities but it will never look like the genuine article. But translate the MRH file into the .mop and it is a carbon copy.

Modifié par Petehog, 28 janvier 2010 - 10:20 .

[EJ42]

Basically, Petehog has the wrong attitude about the situation, which is absolutely opposite to the "open source" community concept. You're not releasing content for people. You're releasing it to stroke your own ego, which is quite a selfish way to interact with the world, but I suppose that's your right.

If Bioware shared your attitude, we wouldn't have a toolset at all.

Modifié par EJ42, 28 janvier 2010 - 03:19 .

[Eshme]

Under that logic Petehog, Bioware doesnt care for their work.



A slight change to the face has been very easy for me ,even before i knew what all the buttons do. That was real easy with the toolset.

[FollowTheGourd]

I don't think you can be too hard on Petehog. Surely, we all feel possessive of something - like not wanting people to come along and draw a curly mustache on a painting you worked hard on and then call it their own masterpiece. In open source, there's still the feeling of peers or mentoring, but last I knew, forking a project was still considered a slightly hostile act - or at least one of last resort or out of necessity.

OK, it's also nice when people create shared resources that you can use for things like NPCs in quests, and don't mind if you tweak or adapt it, but it's still "content for people" just not for everybody - not those who'd want to further change it. Sort of like how a non-jailbroken iPhone is still popular (which sucks to me, and I won't bother with it.)

Don't get me wrong - I'd prefer stuff to be more open - I'm just not going to worry about it if somebody else doesn't. You're free to ignore their work if it doesn't suit you. Just as long as people are upfront about their conditions so there are no misunderstandings, I don't see the problem. Of course I'm just generalizing, but maybe it's more of an "Elder Scrolls" vs "NWN" sharing mentality in conflict.

Modifié par FollowTheGourd, 29 janvier 2010 - 01:16 .

[Asceiron]

If anyone does find out how to extract an npc morph and edit it, please do post it. I bet my dodge that someone knows how to do it.

[EJ42]

Asceiron wrote...

If anyone does find out how to extract an npc morph and edit it, please do post it. I bet my dodge that someone knows how to do it.

Do you mean the ones posted here?

[Maeves_Child]

Slightly off the topic, but I'm having an issue once I have the .mrh getting it to export. Worked fine in the original version of the toolset, but now that I've updated, I get the export folder in the override, but no file. Am I losing my mind?

[TreDawn]

Maeves_Child wrote...

Slightly off the topic, but I'm having an issue once I have the .mrh getting it to export. Worked fine in the original version of the toolset, but now that I've updated, I get the export folder in the override, but no file. Am I losing my mind?

If your right clicking on mrh and doing post to local look at your log window at bottom. It tells you which folder your mor file is going.

[Maeves_Child]

I found it, thanks.

One more thing. Is there a .mor or .mrh created for the player character that you can override or do I have to break into my save game to do that?

Modifié par Maeves_Child, 02 février 2010 - 12:33 .

[DarthParametric]

EJ42 wrote...

Basically, Petehog has the wrong attitude about the situation, which is absolutely opposite to the "open source" community concept.

Actually I'd say you have the wrong end of the stick there. Just because something is given away free, that doesn't mean you get to dictate the terms under which it is supplied. If a modder chooses not to release their source then they are fully within their rights to do so. Don't like? Tough luck - make your own damn mod. There's nothing anywhere on any of the DA sites that I have seen that would lead me to believe we have all agreed to operate under some open source arrangement.

I make mods for me, not for anyone else. I do it because I enjoy it. I'm happy to make them available for others and if other people like them then that's great. If not, then it's no skin off my nose. What really annoys me though is when people take my stuff and then start demanding that I hand over the source material like they have some god-given right to it.

[TreDawn]

Maeves_Child wrote...

I found it, thanks.

One more thing. Is there a .mor or .mrh created for the player character that you can override or do I have to break into my save game to do that?

This appears to have your answer  
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/8/index/216416

I found it by google - player morph edit in single word, dragon age in phrase.
Give it a whirl, it may well save you some time on reply:D

Modifié par TreDawn, 02 février 2010 - 09:44 .

[EJ42]

DarthParametric wrote...

EJ42 wrote...

Basically, Petehog has the wrong attitude about the situation, which is absolutely opposite to the "open source" community concept.

Actually I'd say you have the wrong end of the stick there. Just because something is given away free, that doesn't mean you get to dictate the terms under which it is supplied. If a modder chooses not to release their source then they are fully within their rights to do so. Don't like? Tough luck - make your own damn mod. There's nothing anywhere on any of the DA sites that I have seen that would lead me to believe we have all agreed to operate under some open source arrangement.

I make mods for me, not for anyone else. I do it because I enjoy it. I'm happy to make them available for others and if other people like them then that's great. If not, then it's no skin off my nose. What really annoys me though is when people take my stuff and then start demanding that I hand over the source material like they have some god-given right to it.

Way to selectively quote me.  Bravo!

I clearly acknowledged your "right" to be a selfish ******.  I also pointed out that, had Bioware shared your attitude, we wouldn't even have a toolset at all.

[DarthParametric]

EJ42 wrote...

I clearly acknowledged your "right" to be a selfish ******.

Lol. Such a charmer. That pretty much illustrates my point. You make mods freely available to people and apparently you are "selfish". Should I include a pound of flesh as well?

EJ42 wrote...

had Bioware shared your attitude, we wouldn't even have a toolset at all.

Pfff. Bioware is financially motivated to do it. If you think otherwise then you are blind. It has nothing to do with "open source" and the principles behind that movement. And in the event they didn't provide a toolset, so what? Modding would still have happened in some form.

[EJ42]

DarthParametric wrote...

EJ42 wrote...

I clearly acknowledged your "right" to be a selfish ******.

Lol. Such a charmer. That pretty much illustrates my point. You make mods freely available to people and apparently you are "selfish". Should I include a pound of flesh as well?

I love the hyperbole.  A pound of your flesh wouldn't be useful to anyone.  The source MRH might be of some interest to others.

You act like it is such a ridiculously unreasonable burdon for you to upload the .MRH file (which you surely have saved already).

DarthParametric wrote...

EJ42 wrote...

had Bioware shared your attitude, we wouldn't even have a toolset at all.

Pfff. Bioware is financially motivated to do it. If you think otherwise then you are blind. It has nothing to do with "open source" and the principles behind that movement. And in the event they didn't provide a toolset, so what? Modding would still have happened in some form.

Bioware is financially motivated to release the source material for their commercial work, but your amateur releases are much too important to simply give away?

I'm sure people would just love to throw their money at you for your "superior" content.  If people want to modify your morphs, then that means you failed to produce a universally appealing work.  Perhaps you made something that wasn't half bad, but anything can be improved upon.

Your work is not your own.  You did not build the base model.  All you've done is take Bioware's base model, and modify it.  You are riding on the coattails of the true artists at Bioware.  When you begrudge other players the ability to do the same to your work, it is extremely hypocritical.

If you really cared about the gaming community, then you would have the decency to share your work in a way that allows others to continue to tweak Bioware's work (beyond what you've done) to their own liking.

[Petehog]

EJ42,

Let’s make a simple analogy.

If a cook makes a dish for free for you and you like the dish.

Do you yell at the cook and demand the recipe?

Or do you just eat and not say anything and be grateful that the cook was willing to work on that meal for you at no cost whatsoever?

As an artist, I make a mod for people but I never release the source files or the .mrh files.

Why? Because there are jack-asses in this world. And people have already tried to steal my mod already.

http://www.dragonage...file.php?id=686

I was just about to toss the project out the window and just quit outright because of assh#@s who don't have boundaries.

Maybe you’re not the person who would take advantage of modders like me and DarthParametric, but there are mother**ers out there who WILL. And I won’t gamble on that.

I keep the source files because that is the ONLY thing that distinguishes me as the author of my work. And there is nothing wrong with me keeping this to myself.

And honestly, Bioware can do whatever they wish with whatever mods I make.

But at the end of the day I want people to know that I was the person who made it.

I'm not giving out source files, because some jackazz is just going to take my mod, add a cherry on it, and say he made it. But he can't do that if I don't give out the source files.

Modifié par Petehog, 03 février 2010 - 07:25 .

[EJ42]

Petehog wrote...

EJ42,

Let’s make a simple analogy.

If a cook makes a dish for free for you and you like the dish.

Do you yell at the cook and demand the recipe?

Or do you just eat and not say anything and be grateful that the cook was willing to work on that meal for you at no cost whatsoever?

As an artist, I make a mod for people but I never release the source files or the .mrh files.

Why? Because there are jack-asses in this world. And people have already tried to steal my mod already.

http://www.dragonage...file.php?id=686

I was just about to toss the project out the window and just quit outright because of assh#@s who don't have boundaries.

Maybe you’re not the person who would take advantage of modders like me and DarthParametric, but there are mother**ers out there who WILL. And I won’t gamble on that.

I keep the source files because that is the ONLY thing that distinguishes me as the author of my work. And there is nothing wrong with me keeping this to myself.

And honestly, Bioware can do whatever they wish with whatever mods I make.

But at the end of the day I want people to know that I was the person who made it.

I'm not giving out source files, because some jackazz is just going to take my mod, add a cherry on it, and say he made it. But he can't do that if I don't give out the source files.

ROFLMAO!

YOU are EXACTLY the "jackass" that you're complaining about.

YOU have taken BIOWARE'S WORK, added your "cherry on top," and somehow claim that it's "your" work of art.

If Bioware hadn't given your THEIR source material to begin with, then you wouldn't have anything to release.

Don't think for a second that your piddly little alterations to Bioware's base face meshes, using their toolset sliders, is anything profound.  You didn't create anything.  You just tweaked Bioware's recipe a little.

One other thing to consider is that Bioware has already talked about changing the way things export, and making it easier for players to edit the content released by others without having to go through all the builder-to-builder nonsense.

It looks like your precious "control" over "your" content may be taken away in the near future, and rightly so.

Bioware retains the rights to all derivative works created from their source material, so they have the right to make your content freely editable.

Modifié par EJ42, 03 février 2010 - 11:38 .

[FollowTheGourd]

I'd say one difference is that nobody's trying to pass BioWare's base assets off as their own... I think.



Anyway, if they wanted to enforce a sharing mentality they would have mandated that any derived works be licensed under some non-commercial GPL-like license. It's up to people to want to share - and going at each other's throats won't help.



I recall some article or interview with John Carmack basically mentioning something similar about releasing their older engines under the GPL - that id software did most of the work anyway, but that's not a big revelation here either.