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Don't Repeat ME3's ending


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#26
Il Divo

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Personally i'm going to wait and see what the Andromeda gets in reviews and if Bioware dose not at least explain the ending of ME3 in the Andromeda game I will most likely not buy Andromeda. Some may say thats steep or a narrow sighted decision but, I was burned once and if Bioware will not give some closure or explanation to the trainwreck that was the ending of ME3 then there is no reason for me to trust their game making in Andromeda. Don't get me wrong I want to like Andromeda, but fool me once once shame on you fool me twice shame on me. 

 

I really don't see what that would do. Personally, even with the EC, I despite the ME3 endings, but given the concept of a trilogy, I doubt there would be any satisfaction in having ME:A retroactively fix the endings at this point. It would likely just make Andromeda's story strained, given that it now has to tell its own narrative in a completely different galaxy while also accounting for ME3's ending. ​



#27
Bucky

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So it's all about Shepard dying in two of the three wins?

I do agree that ME3's ending is a mismatch with other choices in ME, except for maybe Virmire. Bio seems to have got the idea that ME was about making the tough decisions, when it was actually about avoiding them --that's what happens when you listen to your own propaganda, I guess

 

I think this may be an issue of people on a message board being representative of a group that is more invested in the game than the average player.  I think a lot of the Option C escape hatch choices aren't achieved by a lot of players.  If I recall from the player data they published for ME3, a plurality of people chose to save the Geth.  Most people didn't achieve peace there.

 

It may just be that the board is more representative of players who only ran into two proper dilemmas, Virmire and the ending.


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#28
themikefest

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The only fix for the ME3 end would be to rewrite it completely.

I wouldn't have a problem with them doing that. Of course, if they were to do that, I would rather they rewrite the whole trilogy


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#29
Guest_irwig_*

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I thought the Extended Cut addressed the effects that the ending had on the galaxy? Why does it have to be expanded upon in Andromeda?



#30
Omnifarious Nef

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I hope Bioware has learned something from the end of the Shepard Trilogy.  In a game of choice.  Don't take the choice away.  Looking forward to seeing how the new game goes.

 

I wish they'd explain their choice for derailing the ending of ME3 as they did.  (It's like the ending wasn't a ME game.  It was more like a Deus Ex game).  Two word excuses don't explain anything :P

That actually sums it up pretty well, ME, a game based around choice and consequences having an ending that is the same regardless of your choices and consequences. Not the best route ever to take. I do know they've learned their lesson, and won't repeat the same mistake again. I still wonder sometimes, about what the ending to ME3 would have been like, if the script hadn't been leaked prior to launch.


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#31
AlanC9

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That actually sums it up pretty well, ME, a game based around choice and consequences having an ending that is the same regardless of your choices and consequences. .


The same?
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#32
Felya87

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For me, playng Three games in a row, and being forced with being ok that I can only expect Said character to die to have some closure, was not good. I'm fine with working hard, metagame, whatever to get At least one positive outcome For my characters.

For me in ME3 someone forgot How much players ended up loving the characters, and How personal the story had became. The success of Citadel was quite proof if it.

The endings, per se, are okish for the galaxy, but not For the protagonist and the crew. (points bioware refuse even now to touch. Really, why the only ending in wich shep seem to survive is the only one in wich her destiny is not clear?! It was so hard give some satisfation to those players who love their character and positive endings?) If there was one ending or two and many fates For crew and shepard, I don't think we would still be Here talking about it. At least, not in a negative way.

#33
78stonewobble

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What do you mean, specifically, by taking the choice away? We got four radically different endings -- three wins and one epic fail.

 

Uhm... well there was 1 ending for me. The catalyst is faulty and/or lying. 

 

Disregarding that... The different endings were emotionally all grey and thus also the "same".

 

I'm fine with dark endings, but they should be of a high enough quality, that you are crying your eyes out. Eg. blow away the characters the player were attached to (players were more attached to the npc's than shep his/herself). 

 

I'm fine with grey endings, but they should be of a high enough quality, that you are both crying your eyes out and happy at the same time. Not just numb, blah and/or meh about it. Eg. some die, but others live happily ever after... 

 

I'm fine with happy endings, but they should be of a high enough quality, that you are left genuinely happy afterwards. All or most live happily ever after. 

 

...

 

For best effect... Have all of them for even bigger contrast and mindblownness... 

 

PS: No, I don't think any of me3 should have any impact on andromeda and they shouldn't try to fix me3 in andromeda. Learn from mistakes and move on. 

 

 

I really wish that BioWare could implement a smart ignore function on their website.  Anything with the keywords in the title of ME3 + ending gets automatically ignored.  'Cause you know it's gonna be somebody bitching because he/she didn't like the endings 3.5 years later.

 

 

PPS: You don't have to read them. You control your mouse. Also the ending hasn't changed in 3.5 years and thus a persons problems with the ending are as relevant today as they were 3.5 years ago and equally relevant to future "endings" and in discussions of endings... If you care about that persons point of view that is. 



#34
sjsharp2011

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I really wish that BioWare could implement a smart ignore function on their website.  Anything with the keywords in the title of ME3 + ending gets automatically ignored.  'Cause you know it's gonna be somebody bitching because he/she didn't like the endings 3.5 years later.

yeah there's still quite a few on youtube as well Bioware have pretty much confirmed they're done with that now so they may as well forget it. It has never bothered me too much but then I don't take things too much to heart anyway. I'd let Bioware continue because the stories they've told have been excellent. Yes they dropped the ball a bit with the endings but for me I got enough closure to be satisfied but just like life not every story can't have a satisfying ending.



#35
Chealec

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Truthfully, they should allow the player to lose due to their choices but in a way that makes sense. I wonder how people will feel if they put 20 - 50 hours in a game and still end up losing.

 

I would be totally fine with that :)



#36
WillieStyle

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Why were so many people upset about Shepherd dying?  Shepherd's heroic sacrifice is the most narratively appropriate thing ever.  The one person who saw the threat coming from the beginning, gives their life to save the galaxy.  That's an awesome way to end Shepherd's story.

 

I don't even understand the selfish objections to this.  Whether or not Shepherd lives, you will never get to play that character again. So why be mad that he dies?


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#37
Zymandis

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I don't even understand the selfish objections to this.  Whether or not Shepherd lives, you will never get to play that character again. So why be mad that he dies?

 

Because maybe some of us care enough about the character to know how to spell their name.


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#38
Pee Jae

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Nobody's (well, most people) upset about Shepard dying. Hell, again most people, probably expected him/her to die. It's everything else that's wrong with the endings that people hate. 


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#39
Sion1138

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Because maybe some of us care enough about the character to know how to spell their name.

 

Very good.



#40
Sion1138

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Nobody's (well, most people) upset about Shepard dying. Hell, again most people, probably expected him/her to die. It's everything else that's wrong with the endings that people hate. 

 

That's what they say.



#41
WillieStyle

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Because maybe some of us care enough about the character to know how to spell their name.

 

Why is that relevant?



#42
WillieStyle

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Nobody's (well, most people) upset about Shepard dying. Hell, again most people, probably expected him/her to die. It's everything else that's wrong with the endings that people hate. 

 

The author of the post right above yours disagrees.



#43
Zymandis

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Why is that relevant?

 

Have you never rooted for a character in fiction before? If you like them enough, you want them to win, and get disappointed when they don't.

 

The author of the post right above yours disagrees.

 

Of course. People hate the ending for a multitude of reasons, not for "everything except the fate of the protagonist."



#44
Mathias

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The three best endings I've ever seen Bioware do is KotoR, Mass Effect 1, and Dragon Age: Origins. 


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#45
Pee Jae

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I really don't want to go into this again, I'm over it. Honestly, I love this series and I love that Bioware set a precedent by listening to their fans and addressing their thoughts about the endings. I don't think any other company would release extended ending dlc, for free, to at least, come to a compromise. They'd say, "Don't like the endings? Pfft. Tough. Don't play it again. Sell the game." But, I will put down what I didn't like about the endings (the originals and the EC) and it has nothing to do with Shepard living or dying.
 
1. Big writing mistake here. Forcing closure with the characters *before* the end of the game. What I mean here is, the FOB where all of your squadmates are standing for "one last goodbye" and you get to call your old squadmates from ME2. The mistake is that the ending is at least an hour away and these characters' story is not finished being told. We don't find out what happens to them when the game "ends." There is no closure.
 
Fixed with the extended cut. Mostly. 
 
2. War assets don't show up at the end. No clips of past squadmates, no geth, no quarians, no rachni, just a bunch of data entries and a number.
 
3. It's Shep and two squaddies running through the dark, a few voices on the radio, a couple of makos and 1 clip of a reaper destroyer uh destroying some krogans, turians and an asari commando. Horde mode near the Citadel Beam, push the button. I expected something like Mass Effect 2's Collector Base, where your decisions do matter and people could die if you screw up. You know, 3 of your squadmates go this way, 3 go that way, 2 head back to the Normandy. Maybe even a boss fight with Harbinger. But, no. That would have been too "video gamey." I'm playing a video game, I expect that it just might be "video gamey."
 
The EC at least shows how your squadmates got off the battlefield even though it makes absolutely no sense why Harbinger didn't just blow Normandy right out of the sky right there. Handwavey explanation; the reaper iff makes the Normandy look like a reaper and reapers don't have "eyes," just scanners. 
 
4. The long slow shuffle. You know what I mean.
 
5. The magic elevator. Oh, sorry. Mass Effect fields. Nevermind.
 
6. Shepard does not act like Shepard should during the conversation with the Catalyst. He/she should immediately be distrustful from the word "Wake..." because the Catalyst looks like the kid.
 
7. The choices. There should be one more choice here. My Shepard would say, "Why can't I shut both you and the Reapers down? Right here, right now. Where is that console? I've decided not to use the Crucible. No shooting of pipes, no grabbing of controls that disintegrate me, and definitely no jumping into an energy beam. I will rip everything in here apart with my bare hands until I find your hardware."
 
8. I still find it hard to believe that Joker (and everybody else) would leave Shepard stranded. I'm just not buying it, man. See also the end of Mass Effect 2. :)
 
If Shep dies afterwards, cool. Worthy sacrifice.
 
I could go on but I won't. This is long enough and it's already been talked to death by me and everyone else here who disliked the endings. Personally, it had nothing to do with Shep dying.

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#46
Mathias

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Why were so many people upset about Shepherd dying?  Shepherd's heroic sacrifice is the most narratively appropriate thing ever.  The one person who saw the threat coming from the beginning, gives their life to save the galaxy.  That's an awesome way to end Shepherd's story.

 

I don't even understand the selfish objections to this.  Whether or not Shepherd lives, you will never get to play that character again. So why be mad that he dies?

 

Because it felt completely forced in how it was executed, and many players hated the ending and the logic of Catalyst, so it didn't even feel like a Heroic Sacrifice to some of them. Not to mention Shepard was the personification of the player. WE were Shepard. We were there with him since the beginning. We developed those relationships and friendships. We saved the galaxy on numerous occasions. So it shouldn't be a surprised that many players felt it was too cruel that no matter how you played all three games, you still died in the end, and couldn't get that happy ending that they worked for.

 

A lot of players didn't want to sacrifice themselves. And when it came down to it, it wasn't a well executed sacrifice. We were dying because some AI was telling us we have to, and we just have to outright accept his logic, or else. There wasn't a personal connection there. If the Normandy Crew was on the Citadel, and someone had to stay behind to activate the Catalyst, that would create a lot of potential for a heartbreaking sacrifice from the hero. I guess that's just another big issue with the ending to Mass Effect. It felt derived of emotion. I'm talking of course about the scene with the Catalyst. It was just "Here's the explanation, here is my logic, now make your choice." And then you die.

 

Just my two cents.


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#47
WillieStyle

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Have you never rooted for a character in fiction before? If you like them enough, you want them to win, and get disappointed when they don't


Of course. But my point is that Shepherd giving her life to save the Galaxy IS a win. Just like Mordin giving his life to cure the genophage was a win for that character as well. Some of the most poignant victories come with heroic sacrifices.

#48
78stonewobble

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Of course. But my point is that Shepherd giving her life to save the Galaxy IS a win. Just like Mordin giving his life to cure the genophage was a win for that character as well. Some of the most poignant victories come with heroic sacrifices.

 

Well since it wasn't really poignant, apparently they did it wrong. 

 

As you said yourself earlier... It was allmost expected with shepards sacrifice. 

 

What would have made it better would be some variation on the theme:

 

A: Be a douche and sacrifice the world to survive with your loved ones? 

B: Kill off the people important to shep to varying degrees of player performance. 

C: The option to sacrifice shep to save more teammembers / worlds. 

 

Sacrificing yourself for the galaxy, is all well and good, but it's faceless trillions, that you cannot care as much about. Now if they put the squadmates and shipmates in peril... the npc's people cared as much, if not more about.... now that... would have been interesting. 



#49
Sartoz

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                                                                                                    <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

As a Trilogy

Bio will write the story in three chapters (games). No galaxy wide apocalyptic plot. Rather the story will focus on man's survival and becoming a powerful and respected race. There is all kinds of rich content possibilities here. 

 

However, I believe Bio must designed the trilogy from the start, as one story with a Beginning, Middle and an Ending.  If choices have consequences then the story must have major sub arc plots but all leading to the final game's end. A complex web of choices that must be tightly controlled or the writers will be overwhelmed by too many variables.

 

As an Individual Game

Easiest to write. Bio's writers can have fun coming up with characters that  over time are viewed as historical pivot points in man's colonial history in Andromeda.

 

Personally, I believe this will be a DA2 type game... that is,  a filler game in the ME universe to allow Bio MTL to get acquainted with the FB3 engine and to allow for some experimentation in new game dynamics, such as SP to MP crossovers, to please EA's online appetite for micro$transactions.



#50
sjsharp2011

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Why were so many people upset about Shepherd dying?  Shepherd's heroic sacrifice is the most narratively appropriate thing ever.  The one person who saw the threat coming from the beginning, gives their life to save the galaxy.  That's an awesome way to end Shepherd's story.

 

I don't even understand the selfish objections to this.  Whether or not Shepherd lives, you will never get to play that character again. So why be mad that he dies?

 

 

I don't know as I got the feeling even before ME3 came out that it was going to be a Shepard sacrifices him/herself in order to save the galaxy type ending