I hope Bioware has learned something from the end of the Shepard Trilogy. In a game of choice. Don't take the choice away. Looking forward to seeing how the new game goes.
I wish they'd explain their choice for derailing the ending of ME3 as they did. (It's like the ending wasn't a ME game. It was more like a Deus Ex game). Two word excuses don't explain anything
ME3's ending made DXHR's ending look good in comparison.
ME3's ending made DXHR's ending look good in comparison.
How? At least there was some variation with the ending in ME3 with what you did during the game.
Why were so many people upset about Shepherd dying? Shepherd's heroic sacrifice is the most narratively appropriate thing ever. The one person who saw the threat coming from the beginning, gives their life to save the galaxy. That's an awesome way to end Shepherd's story.
I don't even understand the selfish objections to this. Whether or not Shepherd lives, you will never get to play that character again. So why be mad that he dies?
In some world-states, yes, it is appropriate. but in others not so much. Some players were telling a tragic tale of a flawed hero dying to save the galaxy. Others want a more "heroic" character who leads the charge to victory. Some played a selfless Shepard who gives his/her all. Others played just an ordinary human at the right place at the right time.
THe save imports and Galactic Readiness seemed tailor-made to allow for so many different Shepard. So why is it that, when all is said and done, every single Shepard is a "sacrificial" Shepard? Why is it that, with all the choices available to us, we always end up as Walter White? Who's Shepard are we playing, anyway, mine, or Mac's?
Of course. But my point is that Shepherd giving her life to save the Galaxy IS a win. Just like Mordin giving his life to cure the genophage was a win for that character as well. Some of the most poignant victories come with heroic sacrifices.
Even aside from Shepard's forced-sacrifice, I wouldn't call any of these endings a "win" no matter how much lipstick EC puts on it. It forces me to commit genocide on all synthetic life (sorry, I'm one of those who believes the geth and EDI are living beings), or let the Reapers rule the galaxy, taking away the destiny of organic life. Or to forcibly rewrite the DNA of all organic life in the galaxy like I'm the Lizard in that Amazing Spider-Man movie.
SOmetimes the price of voctory is just too high.
On paper sure, but again it never came to light. The fully fleshed out and perhaps altered version of it may not have been as bad as it sounded. Even if it's worse than what we got, I'd say that's quite an accomplishment considering how f-ing bad the actual ending is.
How can I possibly argue against "how could it be worse" if it needs to be fully flushed out and implemented in the game? Do you want other games that I think that had horrible endings such as Assassin's Creed 3 where it would be Shepard going "you know what the Reapers are right, harvest the galaxy".
How? At least there was some variation with the ending in ME3 with what you did during the game.
Eliza at least doesn't say for certain how things will turn out. Her words are couched in "may" and "might" rather than "will" and "must".
Jensen is not shaping the state of the world, just deciding what information gets released.
THe choices at the end are at least consistent with Jensen's experiences. The whole game was a study in whether or not human augmentation has been good or bad for humanity. The ending choice is essentially just a value judgement.
Eliza at least doesn't say for certain how things will turn out. Her words are couched in "may" and "might" rather than "will" and "must".
Jensen is not shaping the state of the world, just deciding what information gets released.
THe choices at the end are at least consistent with Jensen's experiences. The whole game was a study in whether or not human augmentation has been good or bad for humanity. The ending choice is essentially just a value judgement.
Okay its a lot of vague words, but still it is Jensen forcing his outlook on humanity. He is going to have Eliza change the narrative to show people what he feels about augmentation technology or commits mass murder.
Okay its a lot of vague words, but still it is Jensen forcing his outlook on humanity. He is going to have Eliza change the narrative to show people what he feels about augmentation technology or commits mass murder.
Jensen doesn't have to change the narrative or destroy Panchea. You can release Darrow's unedited confession.
Jensen doesn't have to change the narrative or destroy Panchea. You can release Darrow's unedited confession.
I just went to YouTube and rewatched it.
I think the problem with anything doing with an ending to a video game is how a person perceives it. To me I didn't care for any of the endings to DXHR, just like I didn't care for any of the endings to ME3. At the same time I prefer both of those sets of endings to ones that feel like they break the premise I understand of the game such as Assassin's Creed 3 or BioShock: Infinite.
I know there were people that were upset at DXHR because you didn't have the "happy ending" where he reunited with his girlfriend just like that seemed to be a common complaint with ME3 where you couldn't end the game with your LI.
It's a good thing you made this thread; I'm sure they were seriously thinking of repeating ME3's ending, and I'm sure your thread will stop them.
It's a good thing you made this thread; I'm sure they were seriously thinking of repeating ME3's ending, and I'm sure your thread will stop them.
There is no game; there is only the ending.
It's a good thing you made this thread; I'm sure they were seriously thinking of repeating ME3's ending, and I'm sure your thread will stop them.
"There was no mistake, it still serves its purpose" 
I just went to YouTube and rewatched it.
I think the problem with anything doing with an ending to a video game is how a person perceives it. To me I didn't care for any of the endings to DXHR, just like I didn't care for any of the endings to ME3. At the same time I prefer both of those sets of endings to ones that feel like they break the premise I understand of the game such as Assassin's Creed 3 or BioShock: Infinite.
I know there were people that were upset at DXHR because you didn't have the "happy ending" where he reunited with his girlfriend just like that seemed to be a common complaint with ME3 where you couldn't end the game with your LI.
I never said DXHR's ending was good, just that ME3's ending makes it look good in comparison.
That Shepard has no "happy ending" in any permutation of the ending is to me a concern, but not the concern. It's merely a symptom of the railroaded outcome of ME3; that Shepard is forced to, imo, frak over the galaxy in his/her own funeral pyre. It's a requirement in order to 'win"
I'd have settled for faceless torso Shepard if it meant I didn't have to choose between genocide, enslavement, or eugenics for the galaxy.
Aren't A and C Destroy and Control/Synth? B is OK, but it's an outright rerun of the SM.
Not really. If you're roleplaying it, survival isn't even mentioned or guaranteed. It's a sacrifice for faceless trillions... which if you don't like the geth or view them as volunteers to a fight, which might entail sacrifice, is a non-factor anyway.
The suicide mission was brilliant in comparison and a rerun of that would have been awesome. Imagine the tension with the squadmates, friends, loveinterests and npc's in peril.
Again... sacrificing shepard (a soldier) for faceless trillions is expected and non surprising, you either need to ramp up the tension with throwing others the player is attached to into real immediate peril that you have to sacrifice yourself too or necessarily have to sacrifice to win all together. Throw in a douchy sacrifice the world to survive yourself and you've got that covered.
3 and a half years later, still crying about the ending.
Just finished playing ME3 for the first time yesterday, so the ending is still somewhat fresh in my mind (Chose destroy with very high asset rating. Oh yeah, my Shepard gasped for air at the end peeps 
)
I played with the EC, so I have no idea how the original ending was (do I want to know??), but I found myself to be satisfied. It was bittersweet and sad to see the amazing journey come to an end. But I wasn't horrified by it; the story can't go on forever. Sure, if some nuances from the suicide mission were there with the tension of your team, etc, it would have been a little better. But it wasn't there, and never will be. With the amount of controversy the endings gathered even after the release of the EC... the debates, what should/could have happened to make it better... I think Bioware perhaps nailed it.
Imagine the Reapers being inarguable good guys and the plot holes being double the size. We almost ended up with that.
Depending on implementation, I probably would have taken it over Star Child. It certainly didn't help in ME3's case that the ending/Reaper motivation essentially rehashed the Organic-Synthetic Conflict, which was at best a sub-theme of the series.
Even better, I would have preferred to see the Reapers as essentially trying to prevent the use of WMD's, from ever increasing technologically advanced civilizations. The culling could have been their method from stopping anyone from reaching a point where they could cause galaxy-wide destruction.
3 and a half years later, still crying about the ending.
Ironic... because the ending's quality was not enough to actually make us cry. So still valid.
Just finished playing ME3 for the first time yesterday, so the ending is still somewhat fresh in my mind (Chose destroy with very high asset rating. Oh yeah, my Shepard gasped for air at the end peeps
I played with the EC, so I have no idea how the original ending was (do I want to know??), but I found myself to be satisfied. It was bittersweet and sad to see the amazing journey come to an end. But I wasn't horrified by it; the story can't go on forever. Sure, if some nuances from the suicide mission were there with the tension of your team, etc, it would have been a little better. But it wasn't there, and never will be. With the amount of controversy the endings gathered even after the release of the EC... the debates, what should/could have happened to make it better... I think Bioware perhaps nailed it.
The EC does expand upon the ending consequences... It doesn't remove that the catalyst is unbelievable, shep sacrifice was expected and non surprising, it was emotionally unengaging and visually unspectacular.
Ironic... because the ending's quality was not enough to actually make us cry.
"cry", "whine"
Gold jacket, green jacket.....who gives a sh*t. No point in arguing the fact that it clearly made grown ass men act like a bunch of spoiled children. Have fun with that.
Depending on implementation, I probably would have taken it over Star Child. It certainly didn't help in ME3's case that the ending/Reaper motivation essentially rehashed the Organic-Synthetic Conflict, which was at best a sub-theme of the series.
Even better, I would have preferred to see the Reapers as essentially trying to prevent the use of WMD's, from ever increasing technologically advanced civilizations. The culling could have been their method from stopping anyone from reaching a point where they could cause galaxy-wide destruction.
Guest_irwig_*
It doesn't remove that the catalyst is unbelievable
Well it's an extension of the original ending, hence the name "Extended Cut". So yeah, they won't remove certain parts. It'll have the same thing as the original with some extra dialogue and questions to ask him.
No. His phrase itself is explenatory. "Had to be me". His logic mind may haven't thought about becaming a martyr, but his guilt? oh yes. He even became somehow religious because of his guilt. It was the ultimate way to get rid of it, to repay the suffering of so many female krogan. Is easy to see in his character. Is very conflicted between his logic and his emotions. Is one of the motivation he is such an appreciated character.
I'm not sure where you're getting this "Mordin felt guilty stuff from" but it wasn't from ME3. Mordin's line was "Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong." Not "Had to be me. I'm responsible for all this."
When you actually speak with Mordin about the genophage, he exhibits no guilt whatsoever. His position is that strengthening the genophage was the right decision at the time. Now, in a different context, under different circumstances, curing the genophage is the right thing to do. Absolutely nothing he says or does suggests that his heroic sacrifice was made out of guilt.
Beside, guilt isn't the only valid reason for a hero to sacrifice herself. Shepherd giving her life to save the galaxy is entirely in character, and consistent with the narrative of the series. That makes Shepherd's death poignant in my book, the exact circumstances of the endings notwithstanding.
Indeed. Self-sacrifice doesn't require guilt....
Beside, guilt isn't the only valid reason for a hero to sacrifice herself.
...
That still makes them inarguable "good guys" and Shepard their antagonist, while also implementing some unusual and archaic pro-weapon themes. "No, seriously, we're different! Trust us! Let us live and keep our guns!" Not to mention further questions about why civilization wasn't cut down sooner, before previous devastating wars.
I'm not sure why Bioware seemed so determined to make the Reapers the "good guys" or a "necessary evil". It's possible to write a compelling trilogy where the antagonist ends up morally ambiguous. But ME1-3 was not that trilogy. The developers spent 2.9 games dialing up the Reaper evil factor to 11. Each act of each game presented us with yet another dastardly, abominable thing the Reapers did. This was great for setting up the drama for the final showdown. But it meant that the developers wrote themselves into a corner. Given how much they had portrayed the Reapers as going out of their way to be evil (canibals, really?!) there was no way they were going to write a coherent twist ending where the Reapers "weren't so bad after all."
I was just pointing out that there are two unrelated issues here. The first issue is whether or not someone has to die in order to distribute the cure. The second issue is, given that the first condition turns out to be true, who should that someone be? Guilt only comes into play if condition one is true; guilty or not, Mordin's first-order preference is that no one should die at all.No. His phrase itself is explenatory. "Had to be me". His logic mind may haven't thought about becaming a martyr, but his guilt? oh yes. He even became somehow religious because of his guilt. It was the ultimate way to get rid of it, to repay the suffering of so many female krogan. Is easy to see in his character. Is very conflicted between his logic and his emotions. Is one of the motivation he is such an appreciated character.
I still don't see why you're bringing up guilt here. It's not like guilt is a necessary or even a likely component of a heroic sacrifice. And any Shepard who would find it unacceptable to die at the moment of final victory over the ultimate enemy is in the wrong profession.But Shepard? for some players maybe their Shepard may have some guilty guilt for something she/he did. But is only one way to play Shepard. Mine for example have some regrets, but no guilt inside themselves. They have always done the best they could, and accepted sometimes you can't save everyone, but have no choice they would have done different (maybe beside bedding Kaidan/Ashley, with how winey they were in ME3, but everyone make some error in love) and have no martyr ambitions.
So stay in character and lose.Your Shepard will die thinking that she did the right thing. If there's an afterlife I suppose she'll find out how wrong she was, but I imagine she'll be forgiven for a choice made in good faith.For me to stay in character my Shepard would have gone with the refuse ending, if it wasn't a game over. Because no way she would have killed herself coming to terms with a crazy AI. She would have fought till her last breath, because she have much to loose, and she have already died once, and it wasn't fun.
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