413 réponses à ce sujet

[Killroy]

what would people think about ME2 being more like ME3's plot and reworking ME3's plot to be a sort of falling action?

 
I don't know what that means.

[Panda]

ME2 is very important game in the franchise. It develops lore more than ME1 ever did. It gives us background to conflicts in ME3: genocide from both sides, Geth and Quarians, Cerberus and Alliance. Without ME2 Geth would stay as mindless canon fodder and Cerberus would be one-dimensional organisation. We wouldn't have EDI either so we would see synthetics only as enemies, reapers bad, geth canon fodder that follows them and are mean to Quarians and Als dangerous things that go rogue and slaughter people time to time. I doubt ME3 would have had time to establish emotional connection to Geth and Als nor make Cerberus more dimensional.

[Youknow]

 
I don't know what that means.

 

 

Falling Action: the part of the story after the climax, but before the actual conclusion. In other words, ME3 isn't meant to be the exciting roller coaster that ME2 converted to ME3's plot is, but instead either a massive train wreck that you're watching or a delicate train ride as you reach the conclusion based upon the decisions and actions or lack of them that you made over the course of the games. 

[AlanC9]

I don't see how you could do an entire game of that.

[Youknow]

I don't see how you could do an entire game of that.

Maybe, but as it stands, it sounds like Mass Effect should have just plain been a duology. They just plain didn't have enough content for 3 games. 

[Killroy]

Falling Action: the part of the story after the climax, but before the actual conclusion. In other words, ME3 isn't meant to be the exciting roller coaster that ME2 converted to ME3's plot is, but instead either a massive train wreck that you're watching or a delicate train ride as you reach the conclusion based upon the decisions and actions or lack of them that you made over the course of the games.

That sounds like 2 or 3 hours of content, at best. They would have to pad it out with filler, just like ME2.

If a reworking of the series is to happen in this hypothetical situation, the only way to make it work, IMO, is to swap ME1 and ME2, having the Collector abductions being what kickstarts Shepard's adventure. S/he gets minor aid from the Council in the form of two Spectres, Nihlus and Saren, to investigate the abductions of colonists on the fringes of Council space. When the Collector threat is discovered and found to be a threat to more than just humans(they're just starting into Council space after hitting isolated pockets of colonies of numerous races elsewhere in the galaxy) the Council gives Shepard and the Spectres more resources(a full crew, access to independent operatives, money and weapons) and command of the Normandy SR-1. Nihlus and Saren follow your lead as you're now a Spectre recruit and this mission will serve as your test. You recruit assets, gather intel, stifle the Collector's efforts and ultimately exile them in the galactic core. Along the way you discover hints about what they were doing and who they were doing it for(and it wasn't building a giant Terminator Reaper, it was genetic research to Reaperize the various races). During the final assault Saren is thought dead and left behind in the galactic core. Shepard is made a Spectre and humans become a full-fledged Council race with a seat on the Council. The intel on the Collectors is given to the Council and taken seriously. No death and rebirth, no Cerberus.

Then ME2 is essentially ME1. It's several years later(this time jump is a necessity). Shepard has been a stellar Spectre. The game opens with Shepard being a badass Spectre, taking down a ring of eezo smugglers or something. Then you go to Eden Prime to retrieve some functioning Prothean tech, a Reaper shows up, Saren is "back from the dead" with a Geth army, you find the beacon and get the vision, skip the plant monster, give Benezia a bigger role(she never actually did anything in ME1...), don't make Saren a Frankenstein cyborg until after Sovereign "upgrades" him, change the final battle so it's just pure firepower(Council fleet, Citadel defense systems) that wreck Sovereign instead of the weird mind projection into Saren's hoppy corpse thing. No working for a terrorist organization with endless resources and endless capacity for failure, no "Ah yes, 'Reapers'..." nonsense.

ME3 then does the Reaper invasion, but no Crucible and no Space Babby BS. Between ME2 and ME3 the Council races were preparing for an all-out war but the Reaper forces are too powerful. The solution is to get to the galactic core and use experimental technology to use a black hole as a wormhole to another galaxy. Instead of uniting the races to fight a ground war you're gathering great minds and resources(including genetic material to colonize the new galaxy, like in Interstellar) to bolster your chances of comlpeting the mission and successfully colonizing the new galaxy. Because you need the Reapers to remain unaware of what you're doing you have to keep the galaxy-at-large fighting them and the choices you make determine how well your secret is kept and for how long. The more "ruthless" and determined you are the more time you have to prepare. The more "soft" and flexible you are, the less time you have. If you succeed the game ends with an escape to the Andromeda galaxy, with glimpses into the early stages of colonization.

Then Andromeda starts...


EDIT--Oh, and you'd have to fight the Collectors when you get to the galactic core in ME3. You know, for extra drama and excitement.

[Ahglock]

That sounds like 2 or 3 hours of content, at best. They would have to pad it out with filler, just like ME2.
 

 

You keep saying this, but ME3 is exactly the same in this regard.  Loyalty mission for loyalty mission, instead of personal loyalty its loyalty of a faction. Instead of extra focus and lack of distractions in a final mission its war assets which have no logical bearing on the ability to use a magic beam successfully. Does it get its power from galactic good will or something?  Instead of fighting the reaper agents and disrupting the reapers plans its the final battle so its against reapers agents slowing them down so you pull off your plan. 

[Killroy]

You keep saying this, but ME3 is exactly the same in this regard.  Loyalty mission for loyalty mission, instead of personal loyalty its loyalty of a faction. Instead of extra focus and lack of distractions in a final mission its war assets which have no logical bearing on the ability to use a magic beam successfully. Does it get its power from galactic good will or something?  Instead of fighting the reaper agents and disrupting the reapers plans its the final battle so its against reapers agents slowing them down so you pull off your plan.

Ending thousands-years long conflicts to form a united front against the Reapers is hardly the same as helping your squad work through their daddy issues. And I never said ME3 was awesome(I was already unhappy with it before the Star Brat showed up). It's just WAY lighter on the filler and pointlessness.

[Ahglock]

Ending thousands-years long conflicts to form a united front against the Reapers is hardly the same as helping your squad work through their daddy issues. And I never said ME3 was awesome(I was already unhappy with it before the Star Brat showed up). It's just WAY lighter on the filler and pointlessness.

 

A united front against the reapers when your entire plot has nothing to do with the united front fighting them but instead a magic beam that solves all your problems vs a small group of elite operatives gaining the trust necessary to work as a team to take down a reaper plot.  I'm not really seeing the difference, both are cliché stories.  you can call it daddy issues,(and yes too many of the plots were like that, but since it was about individual peoples goals and not a societies its too be expected) but its not like the mission reasons in ME3 were brilliant. 

[Killroy]

How were our squadmates building trust? And trust in who? We were doing favors for them to justify the moronic "suicide mission" tag line.

[Steelcan]

That's the Halo with the best campaign and characters. Luv it.

and you'd be wrong

[Savber100]

No issue with the entire game being pointless filler?

 

Then it's the best filler game I've played. 

The game contained more than enough content to make me actual care about the Mass Effect universe than ME1 ever did. 

[Vapaa]

ME2 is very important game in the franchise. It develops lore more than ME1 ever did. It gives us background to conflicts in ME3: genocide from both sides, Geth and Quarians, Cerberus and Alliance. Without ME2 Geth would stay as mindless canon fodder and Cerberus would be one-dimensional organisation. We wouldn't have EDI either so we would see synthetics only as enemies, reapers bad, geth canon fodder that follows them and are mean to Quarians and Als dangerous things that go rogue and slaughter people time to time. I doubt ME3 would have had time to establish emotional connection to Geth and Als nor make Cerberus more dimensional.

All very good, but that is irrelevant to the matter of the overaching plot. If instead of chasing the Collectors, you were looking for the Crucible, you could still have those elements on the side.

The point is not what ME2 did in terms of world building the point is about what ME2 did to adress the overarching plot of the trilogy, which, as it turns out was nothing at all.

[Panda]

All very good, but that is irrelevant to the matter of the overaching plot. If instead of chasing the Collectors, you were looking for the Crucible, you could still have those elements on the side.

The point is not what ME2 did in terms of world building the point is about what ME2 did to adress the overarching plot of the trilogy, which, as it turns out was nothing at all.

 

I don't really find this being problem. New threat (collectors) that was revealed to be part of old threat (reapers) worked for me quite well and connected the overall plots.

[Vapaa]

I don't really find this being problem. New threat (collectors) that was revealed to be part of old threat (reapers) worked for me quite well and connected the overall plots.

 

Again, it's not the problem, the final is that ME2 didn't advance the overarching plot, Collectors are not incompatible with that.

 

The problem is not that we went to fight the Collectors, but that the entire confict had basically nothing to do with the bigger conflict with the reapers. The Colloctors could've get in the way of Shepard finding a way to end the Reapers (be it the Crucible or something else), that would've totally work, alas another wasted opportunity.

[Andrew Lucas]

and you'd be wrong

Nope.

[Panda]

Again, it's not the problem, the final is that ME2 didn't advance the overarching plot, Collectors are not incompatible with that.

 

The problem is not that we went to fight the Collectors, but that the entire confict had basically nothing to do with the bigger conflict with the reapers. The Colloctors could've get in the way of Shepard finding a way to end the Reapers (be it the Crucible or something else), that would've totally work, alas another wasted opportunity.

 

I simply disagree, I think plot of ME2 simply was about reapers. I think some seem to think ME2's plot didn't fit to overall story of ME, but I think it did, it was about how reapers turned everyone into husks (protheans to collectors) and how they "preserved" old civilizations in form of reapers (Star Child told about this in ME3 ending as well). That was main plot-wise, if we strictly want it to stay on reapers. I think Cerberus and societies around us in ME universe are quite lot tied to mainplot as well so it's very hard for me to understand why people think ME2 has nothing to do with mainplot of the story.

[Vapaa]

That was main plot-wise, if we strictly want it to stay on reapers.

The main plot was the WAR against the Reapers, that's what ME1 past Virmire keeps telling us: "The Repears are out for us, and we must end them".

And ME2 has done nothing to advance the war, you mill about learning things, yes, but how much prepared are you at the end of ME2 compared to the begining of ME2.

[Wulfram]

Maybe, but as it stands, it sounds like Mass Effect should have just plain been a duology. They just plain didn't have enough content for 3 games.

They could have used ME2 to actually set up the means of defeating the Reapers, rather than effectively using it set the plot back.

ME2 should have been about discovering the crucible, and should have shown people preparing for the Reapers rather than having everyone except Cerberus (even Liara, Garrus, Tali etc) forget about them.

[Phoenix_Also_Rises]

(...) We had choices like Krogan/Salaran or Geth/Qunari in ME3 (...).

The Qun demands that all AI be eliminated.

[JeffZero]

"The Qunari destroyed what they feared. Shepard-Commander, this unit does not wish to be relegated to the menial task of dishwashing."

[RoboticWater]

They could have used ME2 to actually set up the means of defeating the Reapers, rather than effectively using it set the plot back.

ME2 should have been about discovering the crucible, and should have shown people preparing for the Reapers rather than having everyone except Cerberus (even Liara, Garrus, Tali etc) forget about them.

How could the Reapers in ME3 be intimidating if we've already discovered their kryptonite? That's part of the reason the Crucible was so lame: it was the perfect solution from the get-go. Why worry about the Reapers at all if you have the perfect weapon to kill them?
 

Empire is in no way a sidequest. You're trying to bend reality to suit your asinine argument.

But why isn't it a sidequest? The main characters don't advance their fight against the Empire at all, they spend most of the movie running away and meeting some new people and in the end, everyone is in a worse position than they were at the end of the original. Sounds a little like ME2 to me.

If you're going to call my arguments asinine, at least try to defend your own view. Why do you think Empire isn't a sidequest?

[Killroy]

But why isn't it a sidequest? The main characters don't advance their fight against the Empire at all, they spend most of the movie running away and meeting some new people and in the end, everyone is in a worse position than they were at the end of the original. Sounds a little like ME2 to me.

If you're going to call my arguments asinine, at least try to defend your own view. Why do you think Empire isn't a sidequest?

Empire continued the story Star Wars laid out. It's the struggle between the Rebels and the Empire. They didn't introduce a new threat and have Luke and the Rebels fight that, they continued the struggle with the Empire. Just because the Empire had them on the run doesn't mean it was a sidequest. You can't just redefine words to suit your arguments. That's why your argument is asinine.

[Wulfram]

How could the Reapers in ME3 be intimidating if we've already discovered their kryptonite? That's part of the reason the Crucible was so lame: it was the perfect solution from the get-go. Why worry about the Reapers at all if you have the perfect weapon to kill them?

The Reapers had to have a kryptonite if the good guys were going to win, and introducing it at the last minute would have been immensely lame.

If you want to tweak the crucible so it's more of a leveller and less of an instant win button then that could work, but that's outside the sphere of what I was discussing

[Innocent Bystander]

Empire continued the story Star Wars laid out. It's the struggle between the Rebels and the Empire. They didn't introduce a new threat and have Luke and the Rebels fight that, they continued the struggle with the Empire. Just because the Empire had them on the run doesn't mean it was a sidequest. You can't just redefine words to suit your arguments. That's why your argument is asinine.

Empire introduced Bobba Fett, who has nothing to do with either Rebels or Empire. He took Han Solo and made entire cast chase him, spending ludicrous ammount of time trying to rescue Han, which moved the plot exactly nowhere. If that is not a sidequest, then what is?