123 réponses à ce sujet

[Navasha]

My issue with the loss of the healing mechanic was possibly the loss of difficulty in combat.    No longer are encounters designed to kill you, but simply become task exercises. 

 

Now don't get me wrong, I actually love the limited in combat healing system.   However, there should be an after combat system that allows you to restore your party to full health.   Most of my potion consumption in DA:I was just simply after combat to 'top' off your health.  

 

Now maybe lack of healing is not responsible for the severe loss in tactics and encounter difficulty in this game, but I have a feeling its a big part of it.   That and simply leveling too fast.   I use a mod that uses a much slower xp table and the game ends up being much more enjoyable.  

[Katebe94]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I really enjoyed not having many heal spells - the combat felt reactive and punchy, and it was really cool to have that extra element there when exploring new areas or doing the main quests, thinking ahead and trying to conserve health

[thats1evildude]

Yeah, the whole Merrill bloodmage thing was not well thought out.

But right now you have three mages and only one of thrm has a heal spell. Gotta love Viv.

Put a basic heal in and you have three mages to pick from.

You don't need healing. Healing spells don't work with the current system, which is meant to emphasize careful management of healing potions.

If we didn't have mana regen, it might be more feasible.

[Mission]

The point of removing healing was so that you could take any companion and not have to have 1-2 mages in your party all the time i thought..

I guess for lower difficulties you don't but you didn't need them on lower difficulties of the others either really. On nightmare at least early on i still tend to find myself taking 2 mages for barriers.

[TraiHarder]

Bull. They're willing to have revival, which technically is a heal and the KE focus ability which heals multiple people. Either you take it ALL out or you leave it in.

And they ignored that bit of lore two games, remember? It didn't hurt either one. So for them to suddenly make a fuss about it is stupid.

As for teleportation. What do you think Fade Step is? For all practical purposes it's a teleport. Pretty much a version of blink.

"You let an invisible wave of magic carry you forward, blurring ahead a short distance"

It's a teleport.

Wtf are you going on about?

I never said helping was taken out due to Kore reasons that would make no sense.

I said that functionality should not come before lore. Like in the case that a Mage should not have a teleport skill.


Fade Step is clearly not a teleport skill. As if you can read the description you wrote it pushes you forward. Just because it has the same functionality if a blink doesn't mean it is one.

I never said healing shouldn't be in the game but if it comes back it needs to have a strategic use. Maybe only healing over time. You heal less when out if combat so you can't just spam heals after the fight. Maybe barriers can heal while there is one on the person and once depleted it can no longer heal.

Healing glyphs on the ground would be nice as well.

[TraiHarder]

My issue with the loss of the healing mechanic was possibly the loss of difficulty in combat. No longer are encounters designed to kill you, but simply become task exercises.

Now don't get me wrong, I actually love the limited in combat healing system. However, there should be an after combat system that allows you to restore your party to full health. Most of my potion consumption in DA:I was just simply after combat to 'top' off your health.

Now maybe lack of healing is not responsible for the severe loss in tactics and encounter difficulty in this game, but I have a feeling its a big part of it. That and simply leveling too fast. I use a mod that uses a much slower xp table and the game ends up being much more enjoyable.

If they added a healing system after combat like DA2 what would be the point of taking away healing spells. Lol

They can come back but only in a strategic manner

[TraiHarder]

They kind of have anyway. That artifact the Artificer gets can teleport the party away to safety. + Rogues, in general, teleports all the time.

Never said a item can teleport you. I mean we already have Eluvians that do that. I said a mage should not be able to teleport via a magic spell it's in the book Rules of Magic

And don't even you know very well rouge don't teleport they either move super fast or go invisible and hurry behind a enemy

[ApostleinTriumph]

I liked the concept of barriers. One thing I did not like in previous games was the fact that since Spirit Healers were much better in healing than other specializations, I kind of felt like I was shooting myself in the foot by not bringing Anders or Wynne to the party. And since I did not usually go for multiple mage parties (unless I'm one maybe) that meant I had to sideline one of the characters for too long. In DAI, I was able to just switch the best gear I had to the other mage (Dorian, Viv or Solas) and continue from there.

 

However, healing magic is fun in its own right. A huge party wide healing spell or a big heal on a low hp character is satisfying to do. I hope they make a mix of both systems by giving barrier to the healing tree and making healing spells not require a huge investment in the specific tree to get them. This way we can pick whichever mage character we want and not feel punished for it.

[TraiHarder]

I liked the concept of barriers. One thing I did not like in previous games was the fact that since Spirit Healers were much better in healing than other specializations, I kind of felt like I was shooting myself in the foot by not bringing Anders or Wynne to the party. And since I did not usually go for multiple mage parties (unless I'm one maybe) that meant I had to sideline one of the characters for too long. In DAI, I was able to just switch the best gear I had to the other mage (Dorian, Viv or Solas) and continue from there.

However, healing magic is fun in its own right. A huge party wide healing spell or a big heal on a low hp character is satisfying to do. I hope they make a mix of both systems by giving barrier to the healing tree and making healing spells not require a huge investment in the specific tree to get them. This way we can pick whichever mage character we want and not feel punished for it.

What lol are you serious?

Why wouldn't a tree specifically for healing and buffing the team be better at healing than anyother specialization. LMAO ITS THE HEALING SPECIALIZATION it's what you study if you want to heal with great skill.

And why wouldn't bigger better healing spells require a investment to get. I mean it's not like they are gonna put Revive right at the top

[Darkly Tranquil]

Healing was never the problem. Potions spam was the problem and it was largely resolved by putting a cool down on it in DA2. All the low/no healing combat of DAI did was make the vast majority of fights a bore as the enemies rarely had enough DPS to burst your guys down, and you could just fast travel to camp any time for a top up. As a result, nine out of ten fights were meaningless, and it was only when you ran low on potions (such as during main quests) and couldn't backtrack that the fights became interesting.

Some people might argue that healing makes mages essential, but let's face it, a Barrier bot is every bit as mandatory as a healer ever was previously, but it's mechanics are even less interesting than healing.

Honestly I'd much rather go back to something more reminiscent of the old style, where you start every fight with full health, but the enemies can actually burst you down fast if you screw up and you have limited healing potions and spells (due to cool downs) to keep you up until you can finish them. That way, more encounters would actually be tense and exciting challenges, rather than a series of tedious chores followed by a tense struggle.

[pdusen]

If they added a healing system after combat like DA2 what would be the point of taking away healing spells. Lol

 

Well, to play devil's advocate here, you still wouldn't be able to heal beyond what you currently can in combat. All that it would mean is that you could possibly start each combat with full health.

[kingjezza]

Personally I would quite like the choice, removing player choice from an RPG should never be viewed as a good thing.

 

People talk like you were forced to spam heals/potions in DAO but if you did that was entirely your own choice.

[pdusen]

Personally I would quite like the choice, removing player choice from an RPG should never be viewed as a good thing.

 

People talk like you were forced to spam heals/potions in DAO but if you did that was entirely your own choice.

 

It affected the way enemy strength was balanced regardless of whether you did it or not, so no, it's not entirely your own choice.

[TraiHarder]

Well, to play devil's advocate here, you still wouldn't be able to heal beyond what you currently can in combat. All that it would mean is that you could possibly start each combat with full health.

What?

[kingjezza]

It affected the way enemy strength was balanced regardless of whether you did it or not, so no, it's not entirely your own choice.

 

Q. Can you play the game without using a single heal spell or potion?

 

A. Yes

 

Conclusion is, entirely player's own choice if they choose to spam healing in the game.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

bring back spam poultice

 

[atum]

Healing was never the problem. Potions spam was the problem and it was largely resolved by putting a cool down on it in DA2. All the low/no healing combat of DAI did was make the vast majority of fights a bore as the enemies rarely had enough DPS to burst your guys down, and you could just fast travel to camp any time for a top up. As a result, nine out of ten fights were meaningless, and it was only when you ran low on potions (such as during main quests) and couldn't backtrack that the fights became interesting.

Some people might argue that healing makes mages essential, but let's face it, a Barrier bot is every bit as mandatory as a healer ever was previously, but it's mechanics are even less interesting than healing.

Honestly I'd much rather go back to something more reminiscent of the old style, where you start every fight with full health, but the enemies can actually burst you down fast if you screw up and you have limited healing potions and spells (due to cool downs) to keep you up until you can finish them. That way, more encounters would actually be tense and exciting challenges, rather than a series of tedious chores followed by a tense struggle.

 

 

1000x this.

 

I suspect they took it out because the combo of barrier/guard and heal spells was too much work to balance.  But they could have given enemies burst damage and counter abilities like to dispel your barrier, block your healing, or strip your guard.  If they had done that, combat would have been a lot more fun.  And when I say burst damage, I dont mean a bear with its wtfaoeroflstomp -- rather,  I am imagining something quick but over-time that can spike quickly if you arent paying attention.  Such as multiple debuffs starting to stack.

 

 

I find it strange that people can rationalize that removing healing somehow made the game more strategic. 

 

I'd like to see all the spells from Origins return, along with enemy abilities to counter or nullify them.  What we got was PotionManager2000 and HP sponge mobs with silly AoE.

 

Don't get me wrong, I loved DAI, and the combat had its moments, especially the dragon fights.  But, as a whole, the combat system
has serious issues which take a lot of the fun out of it.

[Avejajed]

I had more than enough potions for healing without wasting someone's skill tree. One mage had resurrect and that was more than enough for the new times on harder difficulty that I needed it

[Call Me Jord]

I thought there was Healing.

 

Are you telling me these Health Potion's are all lies?!

 

That would explain why Solas kept using them, and appearing to not get any health back...I can hear you drink it Eggman, or are you pretending to drink it and instead chucking the contents on the ground?!

 

But if you mean like, the Spirit Healer spec, I'd love for that to come back. While I didn't struggle at all, even on Hard/Nightmare due to 5 Guard on Hit/Hidden Blades/25% Damage heal over time, a pure healing mage spec would be welcome.

[Rawgrim]

Never said a item can teleport you. I mean we already have Eluvians that do that. I said a mage should not be able to teleport via a magic spell it's in the book Rules of Magic

And don't even you know very well rouge don't teleport they either move super fast or go invisible and hurry behind a enemy

 

Non-mages should not be able to magically do anything like that. I diminishes the "magic" in the mage class when everyone can use magic like that.

 

The World of Thedas book actually states that no magical artifact can do anything that a magic spell can't do. Yet the rogues can make teleporting artifacts in DA:I.

[Joseph Warrick]

I've no problem with the current system in terms of healing. I'd prefer the return of shape shifting.

[pdusen]

 

What?

 

 

What what? My post was short and clear. If you want clarification on something, be more specific.

 

Q. Can you play the game without using a single heal spell or potion?

 

A. Yes

 

Conclusion is, entirely player's own choice if they choose to spam healing in the game.

 

Okay, sure, just like it's entirely my choice to play the game with my toes instead of hands. Except that since the game design doesn't accomodate toe usage, that would make me a very dumb player.

 

This is game design 101. People *can* heal spam, therefore people *will* heal spam, therefore you must design encounters to take into account that people will heal spam if they have the option. You can get around all of this by taking away healspam. To not do so is bad game design.

[Wicked Minded]

Healing Mist, makes every character a healer. upgraded, one bomb can heal a whole party fully without having to take up a spell slot on a character.  My rogue archers, stealth up to the warriors, drop a bomb and leaping shot back

[Ferretinabun]

I remember reading a post from a dev just before DA:I was released explaining the decision to scrap Healing Magic. I forget the particulars, but it all had to do with making encounters appropriate to your level, which apparently was a lot easier with damage prevention (such as guard and barrier) than with healing.

[Wulfram]

I applaud Bioware's willingness and desire to experiment with this, but I'd on balance like healing back.

Guard is good, but barrier is boring and still screws with the balance if you have a bunch of mages in party. Not having post battle healing was OK, but I don't feel it added greatly - and in practice you got an opportunity to heal everyone up with a supply cache before virtually every tough fight.