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Why is Alistair so passionately committed to killing Loghain?


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#501
GoldenGail3

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Well, I'll share my own F!Cousland's perspective, as she doesn't always see eye to eye with Alistair, as I headcannon a lot of this:
 
1) Alistair blames death of Cailan, Duncan, GW's and army at Ostagar on Loghain. Cousland disagrees on some of the details, giving a more nuanced analysis of the situation. Alistair may or may not agree, but it's largely a moot point, for reasons below.
 
2) Alistair doesn't trust Anora. Cousland is very, very angry with her for various reasons. Then again, Cousland is also angry with a great deal of the Ferelden elite, who seem not to care a whit that the Teyrn of Highever and his family were betrayed and murdered in cold blood. So much for oaths and fealty.
 
3) Alistair does not wish to be king, initially. Cousland, however, absolutely wants to be Queen, and talks him into it. None among the eligible elite are worthy in her eyes to marry. Alistair is a bastard, but has Maric's blood, which says nothing of his amiable personality. I doubt in a more realistic setting that he would actually be King: it's much more likely that Cousland would become Queen Regnant with Alistair as Prince Consort, since she's full blooded Cousland, and of higher birth than any other noble in the Landsmeet other than her brother.
 
4) Holds Grey Wardens with high standards. Cousland has a more realistic perspective on the order.
 
These last two points are all Cousland, and they settle the matter in her mind:
 
5) Howe. Loghain and Howe. Need I say more? Hell, Loghain, Howe, Cauthrien and Anora.
 
Loghain, by the time of the Landsmeet, has made things very, very personal for Cousland. Anora, Loghain and Howe have, at one point or another, all conspired against Cousland to either kill, frame, or imprison/torture in Fort Drakon (where she would likely be raped) for their own ends. Cousland, who has been running around the country for a year, trying to save it from the Darkspawn, is incredibly incensed at Loghain for all of this, and has had enough. She's tired of being called a traitor or churl, tired of being chased by assassins, and dealing with people who simply won't get out of her way. The final straw is when Loghain accuses her of killing Howe, calling it "no justice to butcher a man in his home", which is exactly the sentiment she holds for her father, her mother, her sister in law and nephew, not to mention all of her friends and their families back in the North, who are probably piled up in a mound, unburned, unsung and unavenged, since Loghain couldn't be bothered to do his job. It's the most hypocritical, infuriating, and completely ridiculous garbage she's ever heard, and she's not about to hear any more.
 
By the end of the Landsmeet, Alistair doesn't kill Loghain. She does.


2. My Cousland simply didn't trust Anora due to Anora being a snake in diguise. 'Nuff said.

3. Alistair was hardened in my game. So I don't really think so; I image she's a Queen Regent though, ruling besides her lover, Alistair as King Regent though. That sounds better in my game, really.

4. So does my Cousland. But she's kind of the typical KISA you'd expect, but with tons of ambition and sarcasm.

5. Alas, another reason to butcher Loghian.

6. She didn't trust Loghian; killed him becuase she had a feeling Alistair would leave her if she didn't; and because she wanted to become Queen Regent, and Howe killing her family for some reason...

#502
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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Really for me, the reason Loghain dies so much is my canon was a Surana.  I felt it was dirty pool for her to duel him with magic, and it just felt 'lore breaking' that the nobility would accept that solution.  Since Alistair was the one with the problem, and it's his hiney on the line if the Landsmeet fails, it felt natural to default to him dueling Loghain at that point.

I don't think it's just Alistair whose head is on the chopping block if the Landsmeet fails. I think Loghain's going to take a lot of heads.

 

Maybe not the Warden's, if Loghain thinks he can make the Warden bend. I mean, Loghain refuses to let the Orlesians in, but two of the groups the Warden successfully got help from were groups Loghain tried to coopt and the third is the Dalish. However much they dislike Loghain, they won't betray him to the Orlesians. Maybe to the Marchers or the Nevarrans, but never to the country that conquered and holds the Dales. They'd be more inclined to screw Orlais for his benefit. And this is relevant because half the reason the Warden's allies bent is because of treaties Loghain isn't party to. (If you're thinking there's a hundred ways that Loghain trying this could backfire... well, that's why I said "maybe" the Warden's head wouldn't roll.)

 

I do agree that it's weird that a mage was allowed to duel Loghain. It's even weirder that Loghain apparently thinks you have the right to make him fight Shale. (I seem to recall that Loghain says something like "it is your right" when you pick Shale as a champion, even while explicitly noting that that's not a remotely fair thing to try to do to him.) But then maybe Thedas doesn't care about making duels fair. I've dueled Otranto twice in Inquisition, and neither of my Inquisitors were asked to change out of the armor that had saved them from Red Templars. Still, that my Surana openly used blood magic against Loghain and that duel wasn't called off is a bit weird even in that context.



#503
Qun00

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Anora is very Orlesian in her ways. But I think I still will let her rule alone in my current run, for Alistair's sake.

#504
straykat

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I hate nobles too much to make Anora out to be the bad one.

 

Our real world went through centuries of war... finally culminating in WW1 just to get rid of these people. If it's as simple as helping out someone like Anora or Briala in these games, I'm all for it :P Anora isn't perfect, but it's baby steps for me... so to speak.



#505
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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I hate nobles too much to make Anora out to be the bad one.

 

Our real world went through centuries of war... finally culminating in WW1 just to get rid of these people. If it's as simple as helping out someone like Anora or Briala in these games, I'm all for it :P Anora isn't perfect, but it's baby steps for me... so to speak.

Which candidate for the crown you want to back in order to stick it to the nobles isn't entirely clear.

 

Anora is a member of the aristocracy going into the game. It's Alistair who started life in the stables and (so far as I remember) only became literate when the Chantry decided to make him one of their knights. Then again, Alistair has royal blood, if illegitimate children count. Of course I'm given to understand they typically don't in real life, and the banter in the Gnawed Noble implies they usually don't in Ferelden either.



#506
straykat

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Which candidate for the crown you want to back in order to stick it to the nobles isn't entirely clear.

 

Anora is a member of the aristocracy going into the game. It's Alistair who started life in the stables and (so far as I remember) only became literate when the Chantry decided to make him one of their knights. Then again, Alistair has royal blood, if illegitimate children count. Of course I'm given to understand they typically don't in real life, and the banter in the Gnawed Noble implies they usually don't in Ferelden either.

 

I like both of them actually.. it's a good start. Alistair is a good guy, and Anora and her dad represented a small revolution to social class. They probably both learn something from each other. I think maybe even softened Alistair appreciates her more.


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