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Bioware why are you trying to ruin the legionnaire?


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#1
Romanruler2012

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The legionnaire is my favourite character, i just love to play him, taunt as much as possible and watch him take care of huge crowds by himself, always on the frontline surrounded by enemies.

 

After the recent changes I'm not so sure anymore, I mean I could digest the change of unbowed/livid, but reducing Walking Fortress from 8 to 6 seconds and then taking away the cooldown reduction........  on NM I can definitely feel the difference.

 

I mean don't get me wrong, I still enjoy playing him, however it is clear that now playing with the lego is less fun.

But don't get me wrong, it is still fun, even though not as much as before. Bioware didnt ruin it, not yet at least, and patches should make the game more fun, not less fun.....

 

I'm not the guy who sulks whenever the characters are depowered, for example I actually though the silent sister was a little too strong from the beginning... and the passive health gain and guard gain reduction were a good idea. But in my opinion that's not the case for the Legionnaire.....

 

So what are your thoughts? do you also find the change in Walking Fortress to be quite annoying?

 

Bioware please do something about it.

 

 


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#2
Dieb

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The Lego's survivability did get ridiculous at times, there is no denying that.

 

However, if they changed anything about him, I would rather they amplified his CC capabilities to strategically justify  his durability, rather than making him flatout weaker.


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#3
Jugger nuggss

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LIVID SUCKS!
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#4
Steinroller

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I just stopped using WF. Granted, I have the Hakkon longsword. Using War Cry, CS, Payback and Livid I didn't have issues staying alive on HB at 17+. This is with 52/77/54, adding 21% crit to the longsword, and using one crit ring and one life drain. It's arguably more fun, but it's possible to die now if you aren't careful.

#5
ruggie

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After 8 months he didn't need a nerf that bad. Who gives a f if he is hard to kill he does less damage than every other class except maybe a keeper... also he's now hakkon dependent so that's whackk.
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#6
Steinroller

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I agree about the Hakkon dependency being sub optimal. Without it I imagine HB would be extremely difficult unless you're a PL.

#7
DrakeHasNoFlow

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I assume the trade off for the wf nerf was due to the addition of livid (which is a step down from unbowed) ability being put in. I do not think nerfing wf was justified because this is one of the slowest dps/cc classes and livid doesn't provide any noticeable dmg buffs.

This hurts new players and promotion peasants the most and bioware needs to understand that an overpromoted player can make any class seemingly invincible. Stop nerfing classes and abilities that segregate your community. Lego takes two days to kill anything due to slow dps and limited mobility options, while you still have silent sister that pretty much can tank anything on higher difficulties and generate taunt/guard/dps?
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#8
scene_cachet

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TBH with the right team combination you don't notice much difference on NM. 

 

The Legionaire is still a great tank.



#9
Kilgrow

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My 2 nightmare classes were both nerfed and about useless for me now - SS and Lego. I have 98 total promotions and not enough time to get more than 1-2 a week. The game is promotion lords only as far as I am concerned = its good there are other games out just as good or better.



#10
scene_cachet

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My 2 nightmare classes were both nerfed and about useless for me now - SS and Lego. I have 98 total promotions and not enough time to get more than 1-2 a week. The game is promotion lords only as far as I am concerned = its good there are other games out just as good or better.

 

Is it because you don't use LoS and cover in Nightmare? 



#11
Broganisity

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When you come to it
and you can't go through it
and you can't knock it down.
You know that you've found:

THE WALL!

THE WALL!

THE WALL!

NO MAN ON EARTH CAN MAKE IT FALL!



#12
Rolenka

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Lego is a god on Routine but something needs to be done about Shield Wall being a waste of time and stamina after Threatening.



#13
zambingo

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I ran a Lego 1-20 yesterday. Ps in teens.

Shield Wall+.
Shield Bash+
Livid+
War Cry+

Defensive passives and other stuff, I forget.

Purp armor
Blue Proving Shield
Blue Dwarven Sword
Purp Guard/flanking damage rings
Purp Strength amulet
Purp Health belt

He didn't go down at any troubling rate (once every few games, probably more user error), I didn't miss Unbowed but I didn't go higher than Ps. Shield Wall was ER purposes, Bash/Dash into group pop War Cry and then Livid. Swing angry. Repeat War Cry and Livid as ready (one in 16s, other at 32s methinks). Focused on generating aggro away from teammates. He was fun, and funny to see an Archer I was running with merrily strafe in circles around Korbin and his group.

#14
Romanruler2012

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Well I guess I'm the only one who hates what they did with Walking fortress.... and is annoyed by the fact that they depowered the lego when and the silent sister ended up becoming an even better tank..... with great dps....

 

too bad.... 



#15
zambingo

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The SS now generates less guard per hit, I believe. Pretty sure Pala's Favorites are annoyed by that. I think some of them are taking War Cry to compensate their playstyle. Since I had a guard on hit dagger, lower lvl however, I just re-equiped that in the off hand.

#16
Jay P

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The SS now generates less guard per hit, I believe. Pretty sure Pala's Favorites are annoyed by that. I think some of them are taking War Cry to compensate their playstyle. Since I had a guard on hit dagger, lower lvl however, I just re-equiped that in the off hand.


I believe there's a post stating it changed from to 2% to 1%.

#17
Beerfish

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I don't know seems like a recent big change to Pala unless I was just very unlucky.  Just after the proposed Pala change it seemed to make little difference to me.  I could still roar around perilous and maintain guard really well.  Last couple of games not at all.  Died on level one of a solo start and then croaked in a team setting in FC.  I was generating almost no guard in that 2nd game.



#18
Romanruler2012

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the one thing bioware should never take away is the challenge + payback strike combo

 

god i just love it on perilous and nm stunning 3 or 4 enemies at the same time priceless..



#19
scene_cachet

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Well I guess I'm the only one who hates what they did with Walking fortress.... and is annoyed by the fact that they depowered the lego when and the silent sister ended up becoming an even better tank..... with great dps....

 

too bad.... 

 

You know... I find it funny when people have a cry about OP characters being nerfed... But then I see the skilled players finding new ways to use the character or just using their cd rotation the right way and making use of cover and LoS and I'm like "seriously". 

 

Also SS was nerfed and I still really enjoy her.

 

The only real class that this may really be effecting is the Templar. 



#20
WattEinSpaas

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I started perilous with the legionnaire (stats ca. 22/22/22).

Shield Bash/Unbowed/Walking Fortress/To The Death

It was pretty easy.

And of course I was shocked when I read about the change to Livid.

 

I don't used him al long time.

Today I tried it again with Shield Bash/Ware Cry/Livid/Walking Fortress

It was pretty easy (ok, stats now on 35/35/35, sword and shield with guard on hit)

 

So, for me the legionnaire is still the legionnaire.

 

But what about the the Templar? Unbowed changed to Livid -> for me the passives Bulwark and Untouchable Defense do not make sense anymore. So it looks like an incomplete change.



#21
scene_cachet

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This is a definitely a Templar issue... I have the Hakkon Sword so I have chance to proc WF and Unbowed... However, if I didn't have it, I'd definitely need to be working hard at keeping guard up.



#22
DrakeHasNoFlow

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I started perilous with the legionnaire (stats ca. 22/22/22).
Shield Bash/Unbowed/Walking Fortress/To The Death
It was pretty easy.
And of course I was shocked when I read about the change to Livid.

I don't used him al long time.
Today I tried it again with Shield Bash/Ware Cry/Livid/Walking Fortress
It was pretty easy (ok, stats now on 35/35/35, sword and shield with guard on hit)

So, for me the legionnaire is still the legionnaire.

But what about the the Templar? Unbowed changed to Livid -> for me the passives Bulwark and Untouchable Defense do not make sense anymore. So it looks like an incomplete change.

You cannot make an accurate representation of changes to a class if your basing it on a difficulty that is considered the new threatening which is perilous. With your stats you WILL notice the wf change as well as you don't have the cunning to minimize cool downs and there is no longer any dmg to relieve cool downs for next wf, only guard generation while it is up now. Unless, you have barrier bots to soak in dmg once wf is off cool downs, Lego is a liability now unless you are over promoted.

#23
Caldyrvan

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Even with promotions not in the sky perilous is no problem. But where you could go NM before you can´t do it now unless you have a barrier bot (as Drake mentioned) to cover the time where you stuck at cooldown. And the possible damage boost from livid is a joke even if it would do something good the Lego is not here to do damage he is here to soak it.

 

I´m sure there are many players who just had the promotes and gear to go NM with their Lego (and mates relying on him) and were happy to survive. Now they are kicked back to peri or need to be carried. Both is  not funny.



#24
Angelus_de_Mortiel

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The Legionaire is still a great tank.

 
You're grading on a curve. The Legionnaire has always been a rather poor tank, albeit he is really the only one available. Taunts still do not last long enough and threat generation too poor for him to reliably draw enemy attention, which has been a major point of complaint I mentioned to Luke back when taunt ability cool downs were reduced.
 
 

Is it because you don't use LoS and cover in Nightmare?

 
 
Listen, I'm not saying that you cannot play him successfully. I am more than certain I can as well, but let's not pretend he is a good tank.
 
If your Legionnaire tank has to break LoS, that's not well designed, since one of his taunts relies on LoS. While breaking LoS and using cover is definitely excellent strategies, that really would be a tactic of an evasion tank, yeah? The Legionnaire is most certainly not an evasion tank. The DA team managed to make support/leader role characters amazing in this game, with the Virtuoso and Saarabas being recent highlights, but bloody hell can they not make a tank to save their lives. Their ongoing changed to the Legionnaire have further proven it.
 
How has the Legionnaire been changed since launch?
 
:( Walking Fortress duration was nerfed, decreasing overall defense and ability to keep taunts up. Tank -1
 
:) His taunting abilities had their cool downs reduced, lessening the impact of the WF nerf for taunts. Tank 0
 
:) Unbowed had it's cool down reduced, making non-tank builds with good defense a bit more viable. Tank -1
 
:) Amour was buffed, increasing overall defense without leaning on WF as a crutch for defense. Tank 0
 
:unsure:  Unbowed was replaced by a much better non-tank ability, Livid, albeit in the process we lost Unbowed as a CC breaker. Tank -1
 
:angry: Walking Fortress it's cool down reduction benefit removed, the primary utility for tank builds to keep the atrociously short taunts up. Tank -2
 
The major problem with those is that none have quite ruined the tank spec more than this latest WF nerf, but what made it worse was that the reason the duration of the ability was nerfed to begin with was primarily due to the cool down reduction of the upgrade. Now that it's gone, why it the duration still 6 seconds?
 
Now, with that said, this nerf would be fine if the duration of Taunts from War Cry and Counterstrike lasted a reasonable amount of time.
 
I mean, seriously, BW Edmonton should make a phone call to BW Austin to discuss how to properly make a tank. My SWTOR Darkness Assassin works marvelously. Tons of threat generation, two simple taunts (ST and AoE), ongoing stackable defensive buffs with tons of synergy, and an aggro dump. The two simple taunts in SWTOR have further utility by adding additional threat on top of the actual taunt effect.
 
My Legionnaire has one passive that supposedly increases threat (if it does, it's certainly not enough to rely on), three taunts that wear off in the blink of an eye and add no additional threat that I can see (enemies will immediately break off and attack teammates once the taunt expires), and defensive skills that have poor synergy. Good news? No need for an aggro dump skill... That happens as soon as the pitifully short taunts expire automatically.

 

But the worst offense? This:

Edgewise (level 24 Greatsword)
291 AoE damage
49 Armor Rating
14 Constitution
Chance on hit to taunt all enemies within 8 meters for 4 seconds.
Rune

 

This effectively makes the Reaver a better tank than the Legionnaire. Why are there no taunt one-handed swords or shields? It's not bloody rocket science here...

 
/rant


TL;DR: A tank's primary duty is forcing enemies attention on him/herself (via threat/taunts/CC) and then after that he/she should in some way miitgating damage from enemies (via pure defense or evasion). The Legionnaire fails his primary objective as a tank, but excels at the secondary. Summary: Not a good tank.


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#25
WattEinSpaas

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ok, I should have paid more attention to the starting post.

It looks like an "NM-Problem".

So I will meet this problem later (maybe in six months ;), maybe they buffed him in that time :D)