855 réponses à ce sujet

[Aren]

Better then the Archdemon and Loghain. 

they can always die together

evil vs evil=surprisingly good

[Tidus]

If I may. In a since the DA series is a series of playable books that interconnects with each other. Literature?  IMHO no, its not a readable book but,I never had a professor to give me his opinion on the matter based on what a professor told him while he was a student..

 

Here's the bottom line.. Those of us that enjoy the game will not be swayed by those that don't and those that don't like the game the solution is simple.. Sell it on e-Bay or the nearest Gamestop. I have dumped several games I didn't like in that manner.

 

I eagerly await DA:4 and those that may follow. 

 

May the DA series have a long life like the Final Fantasy series.

[Abyss108]

Exactly, people know what you are saying and see that DAI had a problem of telling the player about events while not allowing the player to actually experience them. Take the beginning for example, we were told that there was a meeting between the mages and templars and that they all died in an explosion. We were told that we survived but we never actually got to partake in this event. Clear example of telling but not showing.

I can read a blogpost, news article, or novel about a battle in some war. But that is not the same as actually being in that battle, seeing people die, taking fire, and fearing for my life. If you cannot see the difference between that then I do not know what to tell you...

People know what you mean but they will not give you the satisfaction by saying you are right or have a point. People will defend DAI to the end because DAI represents something special to them and they do not want Bioware to be detered from making DA4 similar to DAI, which many people including myself is against.

Its basically a Zero Sum dance.

 Yes of course we got told, not shown what happened before the game started. That's not part of the game.

 

In origins, I was told I studied magic in a circle tower. I never actually played at taking lessons. In mass effect I picked one of three backgrounds which I never played. In DA2 I was told details of things that happened before the game started. The background for Inquisition is that you went to the conclave for x reason, and it exploded. THEN the game starts.

 

What did origins show better than Inquisition, for events that occurred after the game began?

[KaiserShep]

Exactly, people know what you are saying and see that DAI had a problem of telling the player about events while not allowing the player to actually experience them. Take the beginning for example, we were told that there was a meeting between the mages and templars and that they all died in an explosion. We were told that we survived but we never actually got to partake in this event. Clear example of telling but not showing.

 

Except this isn't like, say, Shepard's background. Not remembering the experience firsthand is part of the plot. The player should not be allowed to see something the character is scripted not to remember at the beginning of the story, and we do eventually see the cause of the explosion and how the Inquisitor got involved when those memories are reclaimed from the Nightmare. Whether or not you are actually satisfied with that story is one thing, but the claim that you don't get to see it yourself is false. 

[ShadowLordXII]

 Yes of course we got told, not shown what happened before the game started. That's not part of the game.

 

In origins, I was told I studied magic in a circle tower. I never actually played at taking lessons. In mass effect I picked one of three backgrounds which I never played. In DA2 I was told details of things that happened before the game started. The background for Inquisition is that you went to the conclave for x reason, and it exploded. THEN the game starts.

 

What did origins show better than Inquisition, for events that occurred after the game began?

 

Since you mention the mage's origin, let's go over exactly how this one Origin does a better job of showing and telling the story of who your character was before they became the Hero of Ferelden.

 

First off, your origin starts with you as a young mage on the cusp of graduation. Said graduation requires you to undertake a dangerous test which could lead to your death if you fail or take too long. Within the Harrowing, the mage warden speaks with and contends with spirits and demons using magic and wit to keep from failing the test. Then you find out that the mage that was supposedly helping you is actually a demon in disguise attempting to tempt you and even after you call his bluff, he gives you a very cryptic and sinister warning.

 

"True tests, never end."

 

Which is really the inherent contention of why people fear mages. Not only do they have tremendous power at their fingertips, but they're also vulnerable to the seductions of demons on a daily basis and falling to this seduction can have deadly results for themselves and those around them. This is an aspect of mage life that you experience firsthand as a Circle mage and you're even told upon graduation that your phylactery has been sent to Denerem, essentially you're still on a lease even after passing the Harrowing. You get to talk with various enchanters, tranquil, trainees, fraternity members and even other templars which can further immerse you in your chosen role.

 

Then Jowan's situation comes up and you can either be a helpful friend or dutifully tell Irving and that will make you a mole. This quest gives you a look at some other interesting aspects of Thedas' magic nature and at the end, you see firsthand what blood magic is capable of and why people fear it.

 

Overall, the Origins were just a better way of starting you on the path of building your character in terms of character, outlook, beliefs and background. Best yet, you can actually see and experience your character's background and are able to respond according to whatever character that you want them to have. This also factors into how you act as a Grey Warden as your background will meaningfully determine whether you'd be more likely to embrace the life of a warden; fight against it; or waver back and forth. The Origins weren't exactly part of the main plot, but they were part of your character's story.

 

In Inquisition? You get a brief tarot card and codex entry that explains your background and your identity is pretty much created for you. There's some dialogue options occasionally for your PC which are tailored to your background as a human noble; mage; elf; qunari or dwarf. But there's a vivid difference between having your pc talk about that close call with a ninja nug that murdered their first love and actually being able to experience watching your first love get murdered by a ninja nug and respond as you believe that your character would respond.

[Abyss108]

Since you mention the mage's origin, let's go over exactly how this one Origin does a better job of showing and telling the story of who your character was before they became the Hero of Ferelden.

 

First off, your origin starts with you as a young mage on the cusp of graduation. Said graduation requires you to undertake a dangerous test which could lead to your death if you fail or take too long. Within the Harrowing, the mage warden speaks with and contends with spirits and demons using magic and wit to keep from failing the test. Then you find out that the mage that was supposedly helping you is actually a demon in disguise attempting to tempt you and even after you call his bluff, he gives you a very cryptic and sinister warning.

 

"True tests, never end."

 

Which is really the inherent contention of why people fear mages. Not only do they have tremendous power at their fingertips, but they're also vulnerable to the seductions of demons on a daily basis and falling to this seduction can have deadly results for themselves and those around them. This is an aspect of mage life that you experience firsthand as a Circle mage and you're even told upon graduation that your phylactery has been sent to Denerem, essentially you're still on a lease even after passing the Harrowing. You get to talk with various enchanters, tranquil, trainees, fraternity members and even other templars which can further immerse you in your chosen role.

 

Then Jowan's situation comes up and you can either be a helpful friend or dutifully tell Irving and that will make you a mole. This quest gives you a look at some other interesting aspects of Thedas' magic nature and at the end, you see firsthand what blood magic is capable of and why people fear it.

 

Overall, the Origins were just a better way of starting you on the path of building your character in terms of character, outlook, beliefs and background. Best yet, you can actually see and experience your character's background and are able to respond according to whatever character that you want them to have. This also factors into how you act as a Grey Warden as your background will meaningfully determine whether you'd be more likely to embrace the life of a warden; fight against it; or waver back and forth. The Origins weren't exactly part of the main plot, but they were part of your character's story.

 

In Inquisition? You get a brief tarot card and codex entry that explains your background and your identity is pretty much created for you. There's some dialogue options occasionally for your PC which are tailored to your background as a human noble; mage; elf; qunari or dwarf. But there's a vivid difference between having your pc talk about that close call with a ninja nug that murdered their first love and actually being able to experience watching your first love get murdered by a ninja nug and respond as you believe that your character would respond.

 

This is a different argument to the "show, don't tell" point I was making. 

 

What you're arguing is that you wanted origins back, and a more detailed introduction to your character. Whether you have origins has nothing to do with whether the actual content is "shown" or "told". You are saying you wanted the game to start at an earlier point.

 

I'm pretty neutral on that point. I don't personally need it to make the game enjoyable, but I can see why others do and wouldn't mind them doing it again.

[vbibbi]

This is a different argument to the "show, don't tell" point I was making. 

 

What you're arguing is that you wanted origins back, and a more detailed introduction to your character. Whether you have origins has nothing to do with whether the actual content is "shown" or "told". You are saying you wanted the game to start at an earlier point.

 

I'm pretty neutral on that point. I don't personally need it to make the game enjoyable, but I can see why others do and wouldn't mind them doing it again.

 

No, they were explicitly showing how the mage origin showed rather than told. The entire post listed how playing through the origin immersed the player in the world and permitted roleplaying opportunities through gameplay and conversations rather than a paragraph of tarot card text explaining your history and then BOOM CC.

 

 

Here's the bottom line.. Those of us that enjoy the game will not be swayed by those that don't and those that don't like the game the solution is simple.. Sell it on e-Bay or the nearest Gamestop. I have dumped several games I didn't like in that manner.

 

The point most critics in this thread are trying to make, if I can try to speak for them, is that we WANT to enjoy DA4 more than we enjoyed DAI. We are not here just to complain and pick fights with people who enjoyed the game. We're trying to show what areas we felt needed improvement and provide suggestions on how the next game can improve. Why would we spend so much time on a game and message board if we didn't care passionately about it and want to see the series succeed? It also seems to be a gap between fanbases who enjoyed many aspects of DAO and are disappointed that those aspects did not carry over into DAI, and those fans who are glad of the changes. Separate opinions, neither right or wrong.

 

You could in theory not judge him, but that would mean not judging ANYONE, since you can't pick and choose who you judge and who you don't.

True. I don't see what that has to do with my point that the judgement is not the ending to the Fallow Mire story. If I can't judge the mayor of Crestwood because I didn't judge Movran, that still doesn't affect the fact that the Fallow Mire soldier rescue plot is complete.

[ShadowLordXII]

This is a different argument to the "show, don't tell" point I was making. 

 

What you're arguing is that you wanted origins back, and a more detailed introduction to your character. Whether you have origins has nothing to do with whether the actual content is "shown" or "told". You are saying you wanted the game to start at an earlier point.

 

I'm pretty neutral on that point. I don't personally need it to make the game enjoyable, but I can see why others do and wouldn't mind them doing it again.

 

I was pointing out how the Origins were good at the utilization of "Show and Tell" via the Mage Origin which is something that Inquisition's intro pretty much missed. So yeah, I say bring back Origins or something similar to improve the Role-play aspect of your PC rather than just briefly talking about your past occassionally whenever the game lets you do so.

 

Inquisition could have done something similar with the Conclave especially considering the Mage-Templar conflict and Divine Justinia's presence. But the game skips over the Conclave entirely and I'd say that this is one of a few missed opportunities that could have improved Inquisition's story.

[vbibbi]

I was pointing out how the Origins were good at the utilization of "Show and Tell" via the Mage Origin which is something that Inquisition's intro pretty much missed. So yeah, I say bring back Origins or something similar to improve the Role-play aspect of your PC rather than just briefly talking about your past occassionally whenever the game lets you do so.

 

Inquisition could have done something similar with the Conclave especially considering the Mage-Templar conflict and Divine Justinia's presence. But the game skips over the Conclave entirely and I'd say that this is one of a few missed opportunities that could have improved Inquisition's story.

The Conclave was such a missed opportunity. It really just serves as a set up to other plots rather than being its own entity. It would be a stronger set up for the mage-templar conflict for new players and could introduce characters from that conflict whose loss you feel rather than faceless bodies you loot in the prologue. And it would have emphasized the tragedy of the entire story if you had seen all of the peace mongers from Chantry, templars and mages gathering and trying to find a solution, only to have the best people in the entire conflict die at the end. The rest of the game we deal with less enjoyable characters, which makes us feel the loss of those at the Conclave even further.

 

For all the talk of Divine Justinia being such a wonderful person and affecting Cassandra and Leliana, we have no connection to her and feel nothing at her death. The sequence in the Fade has less impact, as well, since this is a character we have not interacted with previously. Would seeing Duncan in the Fade have felt more impactful?

[DWareFan]

It's all about head canon.  My inquisitor has a lively background that I created.  BW set the foundation and I created all the extra materials, two brothers, both templars, family that are supporters of the chantry.  Two little brothers 10 and 12 who look up to her and a cousin who is a circle mage.  She was trained as a warrior, etc.  I don't need BW to tell me all that stuff. 

 

Honestly though, Sam is the only one of my PCs that I felt comfortable with and have played the entire main game with, currently doing Trespasser.  I skipped the other two with her because I just couldn't do it. 

 

My next play through will be a Dalish mage.  I already have a head canon background for her. 

 

Anyway, do we need an origin story?  I don't think so.  I do however wish they didn't pick the origin for us.  Let us decide why we're at the Temple of Sacred Ashes.  My dwarf would be no criminal if I had a choice.  I like the human, elf and qunari stories.  I hate the dwarf background,

[Majestic Jazz]

Yes of course we got told, not shown what happened before the game started. That's not part of the game.

In origins, I was told I studied magic in a circle tower. I never actually played at taking lessons. In mass effect I picked one of three backgrounds which I never played. In DA2 I was told details of things that happened before the game started. The background for Inquisition is that you went to the conclave for x reason, and it exploded. THEN the game starts.

What did origins show better than Inquisition, for events that occurred after the game began?

Poor comparison. You being told you toom magic lessons in Origins had no bearing on the overall plot in Origins which was about the Blight and Darkspawn. With that being said, we actually took part in the events at Ostagar where the 5th Blight really showed its face. We saw the horrors of those losing their lives, we spoke with soldiers in the camp before going into battle. We saw soldiers taking what could be their final prayers with Chantry sisters before the battle. We saw the death of Duncan, our early mentor as well as the death of King Calain and we saw the betrayal of Loghain. We SAW all of this which allowed us to have an emotional connection to the story which made us want to defeat the darkspawn even more.

With DAI, the game keeps referencing back to thd Temple destructiok but yet we never saw it (not counting the start screen). We didnt get to talk to mages or templars at the temple prior to their deaths to give us an emotional connection to them. We didnt get to see the divine in all her glory before her death. Instead, we juet get told what happened and had to headcannon our own emotions and connections. If we were Qunari then we should have took place in the security. If we were Dalish we should have done some spying on the gathering. If we were a noble, we should have talked with other nobles and high society guest. If we were a mage we should have talked with our mage buddies. But instead we didnt......



Again, telling but not showing. This is what really plagued DAI. Hopefully MEA isnt like this.

[ShadowLordXII]

It's all about head canon.  My inquisitor has a lively background that I created.  BW set the foundation and I created all the extra materials, two brothers, both templars, family that are supporters of the chantry.  Two little brothers 10 and 12 who look up to her and a cousin who is a circle mage.  She was trained as a warrior, etc.  I don't need BW to tell me all that stuff. 

 

Honestly though, Sam is the only one of my PCs that I felt comfortable with and have played the entire main game with, currently doing Trespasser.  I skipped the other two with her because I just couldn't do it. 

 

My next play through will be a Dalish mage.  I already have a head canon background for her. 

 

Anyway, do we need an origin story?  I don't think so.  I do however wish they didn't pick the origin for us.  Let us decide why we're at the Temple of Sacred Ashes.  My dwarf would be no criminal if I had a choice.  I like the human, elf and qunari stories.  I hate the dwarf background,

 

Trust me, I've already had a lot of fun concerning headcanon for my "canon" qunari inquisitor. He's a lone wolf who was trained by his parents in rogue and warrior skills; he was orphaned at 14/15 by tal-vashoth; Became a mercenary after joining the "Grey Elk" company, but they were all wiped out and he takes on the title of the "Grey Elk" to honor them; and only later joined the Valo-Kas as a temporary member for the money.

 

But headcanon works best to expand on what's already there. It's a stretch to expect headcanon to make up for something that's flawed or missing from the game itself. It would have been more effective to actually experience the Conclave and play out your character's role in interaction with the Temple and the people at the Conclave rather than just being expected to fill in the dots since the whole event was skipped over.

[Majestic Jazz]

Sometimes I wonder if Bioware had it planned early on to physically takd part in the pre-Temple destruction, and Temple destrusction as opposed to just to post desctruction.

Perhaps they did but just cut that content out....

[vbibbi]

I feel like much of the game relies on headcanon. There are no options in side quests, it's either do the quest or don't do it. And it's not refusing the quest and giving a reason why not to do it, it's just leaving the quest unfinished in the journal. Even in a quest with two endings, Lord Woolsley, you can either perform the quest or attack the ram. If you kill the ram, the quest ends, there's no option to return to Jimmy and lie and say you couldn't find him, or you tried to save him from bears but were too late, or gleefully describe killing the sheep, or...gasp...act like an Inquisition and interrogate Jimmy as to if he knew he was harboring a demon. And this alternate ending relies on the player attacking a quest objective, which is counterintuitive to the standard quest structure if we're playing as a "good" PC rather than "evil." And there is no real "evil" roleplay moments in the game, so this is jarring.

[Elhanan]

I feel like much of the game relies on headcanon. There are no options in side quests, it's either do the quest or don't do it. And it's not refusing the quest and giving a reason why not to do it, it's just leaving the quest unfinished in the journal. Even in a quest with two endings, Lord Woolsley, you can either perform the quest or attack the ram. If you kill the ram, the quest ends, there's no option to return to Jimmy and lie and say you couldn't find him, or you tried to save him from bears but were too late, or gleefully describe killing the sheep, or...gasp...act like an Inquisition and interrogate Jimmy as to if he knew he was harboring a demon. And this alternate ending relies on the player attacking a quest objective, which is counterintuitive to the standard quest structure if we're playing as a "good" PC rather than "evil." And there is no real "evil" roleplay moments in the game, so this is jarring.

One can also walk away (or Escape) and refuse it before entering it into the Journal. And some quests do have options, as is the case for gathering favor with the Dalish.

And from what I have read on occasion here on the forums, do not assume that there are those that would not do something 'counterintuitive' as a choice.

[Tidus]

Vbibbi,I understand that and I agree to a point.

 

Would I want DA:4 to be like DA:I? No,nor a copy of  DA:2.  I would like DA:4 to be more like DA:O as far as game play,group interaction and romance.

[Al Foley]

An RPG is different from a work of fiction.  That doesn't mean it's not fiction and I believe an honest reader understands that.  One (reading) is a passive process while the other (playing) is far more active.

I fail to see the distinction or any meaningful difference.  Regardless though starting a game in Media Res can work just as well as in tv or books.  Look at ME 2. 

[Nefla]

The intro was definitely one of the weakest points for me. We make our character and then we're thrust into immediate action. We can even cry about all the people who died but the player never saw those people, we don't know if we knew any of them, we didn't see them live we didn't see them die, we literally got told "a bunch of people and divine Justinia(who we also never knew previously) died." We didn't get to see the explosion and the veil tearing. We didn't get a chance to see and experience and care about what was happening before it was all destroyed. The player doesn't get to see everything go wrong and their character survive and think "oh crap, everyone will think *I* did this, I better go on the run!" Headcanon has its' place but it's not making up key plot moments in the game.

[Elhanan]

Everyone playing the game saw the explosion; tis how a new game starts. And while the people of the meeting (ie; Chantry, Templars, Mages, the Divine) were unknown, it should not require much empathy or sympathy to realize that a host of souls intent on peace were struck down in an act of great violence.

Then we get to know the Divine through those that did know her, so when the Spirit is encountered later, the Player has updated info on that character. In many ways, I found her character to be as strong or more so than Grand Cleric Elthina; another victim of the same conflict and shown over the course of DA2.

Head canon is not required.

[Abyss108]

Poor comparison. You being told you toom magic lessons in Origins had no bearing on the overall plot in Origins which was about the Blight and Darkspawn. With that being said, we actually took part in the events at Ostagar where the 5th Blight really showed its face. We saw the horrors of those losing their lives, we spoke with soldiers in the camp before going into battle. We saw soldiers taking what could be their final prayers with Chantry sisters before the battle. We saw the death of Duncan, our early mentor as well as the death of King Calain and we saw the betrayal of Loghain. We SAW all of this which allowed us to have an emotional connection to the story which made us want to defeat the darkspawn even more.

With DAI, the game keeps referencing back to thd Temple destructiok but yet we never saw it (not counting the start screen). We didnt get to talk to mages or templars at the temple prior to their deaths to give us an emotional connection to them. We didnt get to see the divine in all her glory before her death. Instead, we juet get told what happened and had to headcannon our own emotions and connections. If we were Qunari then we should have took place in the security. If we were Dalish we should have done some spying on the gathering. If we were a noble, we should have talked with other nobles and high society guest. If we were a mage we should have talked with our mage buddies. But instead we didnt......



Again, telling but not showing. This is what really plagued DAI. Hopefully MEA isnt like this.

 

Except I didn't feel any of those things you just said about origins. I didn't care about a bunch of characters that died just because I had 3 minute conversation with them. Duncan wasn't my mentor - he was about 2 scenes, and all he did in those was dump lore about the gray wardens down my throat. I didn't care that Loghain betrayed the king - a single scene did not give me a connection to them. My feelings after Ostagar was that I now had no reason to continue the plot - no one was around to force me to be a gray warden any more.

 

In Inquisition, I also didn't care about all the people who died at the start. Twenty minutes walking around and doing some pointless side quests (and they would be pointless, because everyone would die afterwards) wouldn't change that. I cared because my own character was going to die if I didn't do something about the mark, and I cared because everyone wanted to execute me because they thought the explosion was my fault. And I never felt like the game wanted me to care about the people who died - I played Dalish, so why would I be expected to care about people I was sent to spy on?

[Al Foley]

Except I didn't feel any of those things you just said about origins. I didn't care about a bunch of characters that died just because I had 3 minute conversation with them. Duncan wasn't my mentor - he was about 2 scenes, and all he did in those was dump lore about the gray wardens down my throat. I didn't care that Loghain betrayed the king - a single scene did not give me a connection to them. My feelings after Ostagar was that I now had no reason to continue the plot - no one was around to force me to be a gray warden any more.

 

In Inquisition, I also didn't care about all the people who died at the start. Twenty minutes walking around and doing some pointless side quests (and they would be pointless, because everyone would die afterwards) wouldn't change that. I cared because my own character was going to die if I didn't do something about the mark, and I cared because everyone wanted to execute me because they thought the explosion was my fault. And I never felt like the game wanted me to care about the people who died - I played Dalish, so why would I be expected to care about people I was sent to spy on?

Its interesting because I cared about papa Cousland, and Duncan...but you are right about Loghain. 

[Elhanan]

I have enjoyed the entire DA series, and wonder why anyone that did not care about the characters in prior games would bother with later ones.

[vbibbi]

Except I didn't feel any of those things you just said about origins. I didn't care about a bunch of characters that died just because I had 3 minute conversation with them. Duncan wasn't my mentor - he was about 2 scenes, and all he did in those was dump lore about the gray wardens down my throat. I didn't care that Loghain betrayed the king - a single scene did not give me a connection to them. My feelings after Ostagar was that I now had no reason to continue the plot - no one was around to force me to be a gray warden any more.

 

In Inquisition, I also didn't care about all the people who died at the start. Twenty minutes walking around and doing some pointless side quests (and they would be pointless, because everyone would die afterwards) wouldn't change that. I cared because my own character was going to die if I didn't do something about the mark, and I cared because everyone wanted to execute me because they thought the explosion was my fault. And I never felt like the game wanted me to care about the people who died - I played Dalish, so why would I be expected to care about people I was sent to spy on?

So did you continue with DAO? From your post, it sounds like you didn't care for it, or did you just not care for the origin/Ostagar segment? I'm having a hard time seeing how if you didn't care for the prologue of DAO you would have been that much more invested in DAI's prologue. Self preservation with the mark, yes, but you are quickly exonerated of wrongdoing. It's the same idea...you are hunted by Loghain's bounty on Grey Warden heads and can't escape Ferelden, plus the looming Blight, compared to the anchor slowly killing you and the unknown consequences of leaving the Breach open.

 

And you're taking a meta stance on the prologue. How would the PC know that any quests performed in the beginning would all end with the explosion? How do you know how anything will turn out the first time you play through a game? What is the point of role playing if you're going to say "well, I might as well not do X because Y later in the game will affect it." That seems more like metagaming than roleplaying to me.

 

For playing as Dalish, I would imagine you are not sent to the Conclave alone. There would be a few others of your clan joining you, for security if nothing else. If you're the First, you have hunters for protection. If you're a hunter, you'd be escorting the First.

[Abyss108]

So did you continue with DAO? From your post, it sounds like you didn't care for it, or did you just not care for the origin/Ostagar segment? I'm having a hard time seeing how if you didn't care for the prologue of DAO you would have been that much more invested in DAI's prologue. Self preservation with the mark, yes, but you are quickly exonerated of wrongdoing. It's the same idea...you are hunted by Loghain's bounty on Grey Warden heads and can't escape Ferelden, plus the looming Blight, compared to the anchor slowly killing you and the unknown consequences of leaving the Breach open.

 

And you're taking a meta stance on the prologue. How would the PC know that any quests performed in the beginning would all end with the explosion? How do you know how anything will turn out the first time you play through a game? What is the point of role playing if you're going to say "well, I might as well not do X because Y later in the game will affect it." That seems more like metagaming than roleplaying to me.

 

For playing as Dalish, I would imagine you are not sent to the Conclave alone. There would be a few others of your clan joining you, for security if nothing else. If you're the First, you have hunters for protection. If you're a hunter, you'd be escorting the First.

 

I liked my origin (mage), that was great. And I liked a lot of the rest of the game. But Ostagar made absolutely no sense for me. My character was forced into being a warden less than 2 hours before the others died. She had no connection to the other wardens, no reason to want to stay as a warden, no reason to care about the other people in the country (they locked her in a tower her entire life) and would have just left Feralden if the game gave me that option. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything that suggested it would be difficult to escape the country. There was maybe 1 line about that from a character that I didn't really trust on the matter. Plus, after the origin, I was interested in the mage/templar story. I had a personal connection to that. But then the game told me the story had nothing to do with that, and now I had to join an ancient organization I had never heard of, to defeat a generic demon army, and get revenge on a guy that killed some people I had known for an hour.

 

I actually kinda agree with your second point about meta knowledge. I think I meant to mention how other people had complained about the Citadel in Mass Effect and how it made everything they did pointless, but then forgot to actually write that part. Yeah, I'm dumb, ignore that part of my post.   I'd still think it's better to have content that will have a future effect, but this isn't that much of a big deal for me, especially if it's just for the prologue.

 

I'm sure you didn't have any clan members with you at the start of Inquisition though. That was never mentioned, they specifically send you to deal with it. You were there as a spy, under cover. Spies don't have guards!

[vbibbi]

I liked my origin (mage), that was great. And I liked a lot of the rest of the game. But Ostagar made absolutely no sense for me. My character was forced into being a warden less than 2 hours before the others died. She had no connection to the other wardens, no reason to want to stay as a warden, no reason to care about the other people in the country (they locked her in a tower her entire life) and would have just left Feralden if the game gave me that option. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything that suggested it would be difficult to escape the country. There was maybe 1 line about that from a character that I didn't really trust on the matter. Plus, after the origin, I was interested in the mage/templar story. I had a personal connection to that. But then the game told me the story had nothing to do with that, and now I had to join an ancient organization I had never heard of, to defeat a generic demon army, and get revenge on a guy that killed some people I had known for an hour.

 

I actually kinda agree with your second point about meta knowledge. I think I meant to mention how other people had complained about the Citadel in Mass Effect and how it made everything they did pointless, but then forgot to actually write that part. Yeah, I'm dumb, ignore that part of my post.   I'd still think it's better to have content that will have a future effect, but this isn't that much of a big deal for me, especially if it's just for the prologue.

 

I'm sure you didn't have any clan members with you at the start of Inquisition though. That was never mentioned, they specifically send you to deal with it. You were there as a spy, under cover. Spies don't have guards!

 

OK I see where you're coming from. But the reality of story-based games is that we have to play the story the devs give us, rather than more open exploration of open world games. Which might be part of the reason it sounds like you enjoyed DAI more than I I think Flemeth or Alistair mentions how it's implausible to leave the country (to ask for help from other Wardens or just to flee) because the time it would take to leave, and that it's either through the Frostbacks to Jader or by boat means we'll have to get through checkpoints which will be guarded by Loghain's troops.

 

Duncan might not be as relatable or close for some backgrounds or play styles, I do agree he could have used a little more screen time to strengthen the relationship. But we do at least interact with him and in most cases he saves our lives in the origin, so there is a reason to at least be grateful to him, if not be close. And Alistair serves as a connection to the man. Compare that to Cassandra or Leliana and their loss of Justinia: I do feel bad for them both and DAI did a good job of making me feel for them, but I feel bad for their feelings, not because I ALSO feel the loss of Justinia. Which is fine, I would just have preferred having a connection to better understand where Cass and Leliana are coming from. And to make the appearance in the Fade more personally meaningful. It's hard for me as a character to say "are you the real Justinia or a spirit?" when I've never actually met Justinia, so how would I even know if the being is acting like her or not?

 

Yes, later having a major catastrophy strike, like the Citadel or Ostagar or the Conclave is frustrating, especially when you've invested your time, effort, and emotions into those locations and their inhabitants. But narratively, painful as it is, it's a good story because it gets us invested. Which is why I would have liked more of a personal investment in the Conclave. YMMV

 

For the Dalish, I think it's vague and debatable. I see where you're coming from with the text in game, but it doesn't explicitly state whether you're traveling alone or not. "The clan wandered the northern Free Marches and had little need to interact with humans—until the clan's Keeper sent you to the Chantry's conclave as a spy"

 

I know it's nitpicky but it's not explicit if this is the singular you or plural you, so we could just be leading a group from the clan. Personally, if one Dalish elf showed up alone to the Conclave I would be more suspicious than if several came together claiming to be a hunting group. The entire premise is a little flimsy as I don't see anyone at the Conclave blindly accepting a Dalish presence. Unless they're too arrogant to know the difference between Dalish and city elves, in which case why would they care if there is one servant or many surrounding them?