855 réponses à ce sujet

[Abyss108]

 

I liked my origin (mage), that was great. And I liked a lot of the rest of the game. But Ostagar made absolutely no sense for me. My character was forced into being a warden less than 2 hours before the others died. She had no connection to the other wardens, no reason to want to stay as a warden, no reason to care about the other people in the country (they locked her in a tower her entire life) and would have just left Feralden if the game gave me that option. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything that suggested it would be difficult to escape the country. There was maybe 1 line about that from a character that I didn't really trust on the matter. Plus, after the origin, I was interested in the mage/templar story. I had a personal connection to that. But then the game told me the story had nothing to do with that, and now I had to join an ancient organization I had never heard of, to defeat a generic demon army, and get revenge on a guy that killed some people I had known for an hour.[/quote]

 

[quote]I actually kinda agree with your second point about meta knowledge. I think I meant to mention how other people had complained about the Citadel in Mass Effect and how it made everything they did pointless, but then forgot to actually write that part. Yeah, I'm dumb, ignore that part of my post.   I'd still think it's better to have content that will have a future effect, but this isn't that much of a big deal for me, especially if it's just for the prologue.[/quote]

 

[quote]I'm sure you didn't have any clan members with you at the start of Inquisition though. That was never mentioned, they specifically send you to deal with it. You were there as a spy, under cover. Spies don't have guards!

 

 

I think something ate your reply... 

[vbibbi]

Yeah I got messed up in quotes...fixed it in the post.

[Abyss108]

OK I see where you're coming from. But the reality of story-based games is that we have to play the story the devs give us, rather than more open exploration of open world games. Which might be part of the reason it sounds like you enjoyed DAI more than I I think Flemeth or Alistair mentions how it's implausible to leave the country (to ask for help from other Wardens or just to flee) because the time it would take to leave, and that it's either through the Frostbacks to Jader or by boat means we'll have to get through checkpoints which will be guarded by Loghain's troops.

 

Duncan might not be as relatable or close for some backgrounds or play styles, I do agree he could have used a little more screen time to strengthen the relationship. But we do at least interact with him and in most cases he saves our lives in the origin, so there is a reason to at least be grateful to him, if not be close. And Alistair serves as a connection to the man. Compare that to Cassandra or Leliana and their loss of Justinia: I do feel bad for them both and DAI did a good job of making me feel for them, but I feel bad for their feelings, not because I ALSO feel the loss of Justinia. Which is fine, I would just have preferred having a connection to better understand where Cass and Leliana are coming from. And to make the appearance in the Fade more personally meaningful. It's hard for me as a character to say "are you the real Justinia or a spirit?" when I've never actually met Justinia, so how would I even know if the being is acting like her or not?

 

Yes, later having a major catastrophy strike, like the Citadel or Ostagar or the Conclave is frustrating, especially when you've invested your time, effort, and emotions into those locations and their inhabitants. But narratively, painful as it is, it's a good story because it gets us invested. Which is why I would have liked more of a personal investment in the Conclave. YMMV

 

For the Dalish, I think it's vague and debatable. I see where you're coming from with the text in game, but it doesn't explicitly state whether you're traveling alone or not. "The clan wandered the northern Free Marches and had little need to interact with humans—until the clan's Keeper sent you to the Chantry's conclave as a spy"

 

I know it's nitpicky but it's not explicit if this is the singular you or plural you, so we could just be leading a group from the clan. Personally, if one Dalish elf showed up alone to the Conclave I would be more suspicious than if several came together claiming to be a hunting group. The entire premise is a little flimsy as I don't see anyone at the Conclave blindly accepting a Dalish presence. Unless they're too arrogant to know the difference between Dalish and city elves, in which case why would they care if there is one servant or many surrounding them?

 

Yeah, but it's also the devs job to make you care about the story they present, and that didn't happen for me in Origins. I don't even think what they did was bad - I know a lot of other people loved it, so they obviously did something right. It just didn't hit the right notes for me. Meh, it happens, and I liked the rest of the game enough to get over it.

 

But that's why having the Conclave playable doesn't really matter to me - I know from Origins that an hour of talking to people before they die won't get me attached, so it's just a bit pointless for me. I'd rather have more time afterwards to get to know the companions that I will care about.

 

They don't specify whether its singular/plural, but I think it's safe to assume singular considering that at no point in the game does it mention you knowing anyone else there. I imagine that would have been the first thing your character would mention when they woke up. I think a group of elves is stranger than a single one - you aren't wearing Elvhen armour when you turned up, so I always imagined you pretended to be a mercenary and signed on with some other group, or pretended to be just another mage, servant, etc.  That's common enough, and considering plenty of people have face tattoos in Thedas, I don't think anyone would assume they are Dalish ones unless they had some reason to stop and pay attention to you. A bunch of elves moving in an organized group at a human event looks a lot stranger to me.

[vbibbi]

Fair enough, and as you say, different people react differently to game scenarios. I guess since the only elves I had seen with tattoos have all been Dalish, I thought it would be rare to see city elves with them. Just like I thought dwarves only have facial tattoos if they're casteless, surfacer or dust town kind. No clue when humans have facial tattoos, there doesn't seem to be any consensus on who has tattoos in human cultures.

 

Good point about joining a mercenary group, like Dalish in the Chargers. I was thinking of the Dalish PC as blatantly being fresh off the boat in human lands but it would make more sense for them to join a mercenary group. Granted, given the war table quest line with no reaction from the PC if the clan is killed off, I don't give the devs too much credit for these things

[Abyss108]

Fair enough, and as you say, different people react differently to game scenarios. I guess since the only elves I had seen with tattoos have all been Dalish, I thought it would be rare to see city elves with them. Just like I thought dwarves only have facial tattoos if they're casteless, surfacer or dust town kind. No clue when humans have facial tattoos, there doesn't seem to be any consensus on who has tattoos in human cultures.

 

Good point about joining a mercenary group, like Dalish in the Chargers. I was thinking of the Dalish PC as blatantly being fresh off the boat in human lands but it would make more sense for them to join a mercenary group. Granted, given the war table quest line with no reaction from the PC if the clan is killed off, I don't give the devs too much credit for these things

 

Yeah, as a player it's obvious, but I'm not sure it would be to a normal person who had never seen a Dalish before - especially in a situation like the Conclave where the mages are busy watching the Templars, and the Templars are busy watching the mages.

 

The lack of a reaction to that war table was terrible! - at least they fixed it in Trespasser, there's a conversation you get with Sera about it. 

 

[vbibbi]

Yeah I'm glad that some of the DLCs and patches have addressed issues in the vanilla game. That's honestly what I hope these types of threads accomplishes; to help share what aspects worked for some people and what didn't. The thread title doesn't help this cause, but some of the posts here make up for it, hopefully.

[isabandeira]

Thanks for the replies! I'm really interested on reading the books! There are a lot of details and secondary plots that are worth understanding.

I've read Uncharted's "The Fourth Labyrinth" book and it was very disappointing... poor story and not really well written. Since then, I mistrust books based on games synopsis. I get the feeling that the Dragon Age world will not fail on me, lol. 

 

Thanks! I'll look for the books. 

[Nefla]

 Yes of course we got told, not shown what happened before the game started. That's not part of the game.

 

In origins, I was told I studied magic in a circle tower. I never actually played at taking lessons. In mass effect I picked one of three backgrounds which I never played. In DA2 I was told details of things that happened before the game started. The background for Inquisition is that you went to the conclave for x reason, and it exploded. THEN the game starts.

 

What did origins show better than Inquisition, for events that occurred after the game began?

In Origins you started off IN that circle tower, you got to see some of what life was like for mages and especially students. You got to see what templars were, what their role was, you got to talk to other students and mages and learn more, you even got to take your graduation test and learn the dangers of being a mage etc...we didn't get to do any of that with the conclave or Justinia or the mages and templars who gathered to make peace or even our specific backgrounds. You really don't see the difference (whether you enjoyed it or not) between getting to be a part of something and see and do vs being told "hey there was this explosion at this peace conference and you were there and everyone died?"

[Elhanan]

Origins was properly named, and so was Inquisition. Different games with varied beginnings. And like many other forms of entertainment (eg; books, films, games). it started in the middle of the action, and reflected back to gather background on the character. It is not a difficult concept; nor unique.

[Phoe77]

The way I see it, having the Conclave take place before the game starts isn't hugely different from having the majority of our wardens' lives take place before Origins started.  I'm not bothered by not being able to play through the Conclave for the same reason I'm not bothered about not being able to play through the day my mage warden was taken to the Circle.  A game has to start somewhere and there are bound to be parts of our character's history that are told to us rather than being playable.  

 

I think that having playable origins in their first game in the setting was a brilliant way to get players up to speed on the setting enough to understand their character's place in the world, but that becomes less necessary as the setting becomes more familiar to more players.  

[Nefla]

Origins was properly named, and so was Inquisition. Different games with varied beginnings. And like many other forms of entertainment (eg; books, films, games). it started in the middle of the action, and reflected back to gather background on the character. It is not a difficult concept; nor unique.

It was not well done and failed to make me connect or care. The action was mild, you killing monsters along a path. We completely missed the relevant catastrophe of the explosion, the divine's death, everyone being incinerated and were simply told about it afterward so we could run around and fight monsters on a path.

[Elhanan]

It was not well done and failed to make me connect or care. The action was mild, you killing monsters along a path. We completely missed the relevant catastrophe of the explosion, the divine's death, everyone being incinerated and were simply told about it afterward so we could run around and fight monsters on a path.

No; it was well done, but you did not connect or care. You missed the information, while others did not.

[Nefla]

No; it was well done, but you did not connect or care. You missed the information, while others did not.

I could say that I wasn't simple enough to be dazzled enough by the pretty colors and explosions to overlook the lack of substance while others were...

[Elhanan]

I could say that I wasn't simple enough to be dazzled enough by the pretty colors and explosions to overlook the lack of substance while others were...

I lower the Graphics FX to Low to avoid the smoke and glare, and improve FPS. But perhaps this is too simple for some others.

Still, all it takes is to listen to Varric over at The Keep, and read a bit in the Codex to get up to speed:

http://dragonage.wik...s_(Inquisition)

[Nefla]

I lower the Graphics FX to Low to avoid the smoke and glare, and improve FPS. But perhaps this is too simple for some others.

Still, all it takes is to listen to Varric over at The Keep, and read a bit in the Codex to get up to speed:

http://dragonage.wik...s_(Inquisition)

I didn't miss anything. The fact that we're told rather than shown should be a clue that this isn't exactly grade A storytelling.

[Al Foley]

I didn't miss anything. The fact that we're told rather than shown should be a clue that this isn't exactly grade A storytelling.

You generally can't be shown backstory.  Though some story's do actually do that but everything that comes before a story has to, almost by definition, be told. 

[Elhanan]

I didn't miss anything. The fact that we're told rather than shown should be a clue that this isn't exactly grade A storytelling.

Perhaps it simply indicates that some of us are willing to read a bit of text. But if it helps, there are usually pictures with the entries....

[Nefla]

Perhaps it simply indicates that some of us are willing to read a bit of text. But if it helps, there are usually pictures with the entries....

I like to read text that makes up, oh I don't know...actual books. But nice try.

 

DA:I's storytelling is for the most part just poor, I don't know how you can act so lofty and pretentious and not see this.  With creative writing I was taught to "show, not tell" back in middle school. BioWare used to know better. DA:I's intro (and many other parts) are the equivalent of "I had a puppy, the puppy was white, the puppy found a ball and was happy." It gets you the information but you're not experiencing it, it makes you feel nothing. I know you're the biggest proponent of headcanon but you can't use it for everything and then claim the game is amazing.

[Al Foley]

I like to read text that makes up, oh I don't know...actual books. But nice try.

 

DA:I's storytelling is for the most part just poor, I don't know how you can act so lofty and pretentious and not see this.  With creative writing I was taught to "show, not tell" back in middle school. BioWare used to know better. DA:I's intro (and many other parts) are the equivalent of "I had a puppy, the puppy was white, the puppy found a ball and was happy." It gets you the information but you're not experiencing it, it makes you feel nothing. I know you're the biggest proponent of headcanon but you can't use it for everything and then claim the game is amazing.

I can think of few games that made me feel more then Dragon Age Inquisition did.  

[Former_Fiend]

Personally I think the greatest failure with DAI was with the Inquisition itself. The organization had a very defined set of values that we had no control over. We were slaves to those values, whatever our character's personal opinions on any matters. We had no real, executable power. We had no teeth. 

[Phoe77]

 

 

You generally can't be shown backstory.  Though some story's do actually do that but everything that comes before a story has to, almost by definition, be told. 

 

This is my thinking too.  They could have (with a lot of tweaking) allowed you to play through the Conclave, but I have no doubt that people would then complain that we didn't get the chance to play through the events that happen before the Conclave.  There's always going to be some bit of a character's history that is not going to be able to be shown to you.   

[Al Foley]

This is my thinking too.  They could have (with a lot of tweaking) allowed you to play through the Conclave, but I have no doubt that people would then complain that we didn't get the chance to play through the events that happen before the Conclave.  There's always going to be some bit of a character's history that is not going to be able to be shown to you.   

Exactly.  I was a bit on this side to because before the game came out I was wondering if it would start before the Conclave or actually when our characters were still in the Free Marches getting their 'assignment'.  I mean I wuld have loved to play before the Conclave but it really was not neccessary and listening to the devs reasoning I fully suppor them. 

[Nefla]

I can think of few games that made me feel more then Dragon Age Inquisition did.  

What was it about Inquisition that left that impression on you? I liked the sequence from the battle of Haven to the naming of the inquisitor. There were quite a few companion quest scenes that made me laugh but that and the scene where Solas breaks up with Lavellan were the only ones that made me feel something else.

[Elhanan]

I like to read text that makes up, oh I don't know...actual books. But nice try.
 
DA:I's storytelling is for the most part just poor, I don't know how you can act so lofty and pretentious and not see this.  With creative writing I was taught to "show, not tell" back in middle school. BioWare used to know better. DA:I's intro (and many other parts) are the equivalent of "I had a puppy, the puppy was white, the puppy found a ball and was happy." It gets you the information but you're not experiencing it, it makes you feel nothing. I know you're the biggest proponent of headcanon but you can't use it for everything and then claim the game is amazing.

Don't require my opinion; over 130+ GOTY awards among others do that well enough. And as explained, many of the entries do show via descriptions. Much prefer these entries for side quests rather than time consuming cut-scenes.

[Nefla]

Don't require my opinion; over 130+ GOTY awards among others do that well enough. And as explained, many of the entries do show via descriptions. Much prefer these entries for side quests rather than time consuming cut-scenes.

If popularity is a measure of artistic quality then CoD must have an amazing story, Justin Beiber is a musical genius, and poptarts are a gourmet food. Also I didn't mention sidequests, I'm talking about the main plot which was disjointed, had no sense of urgency, no balance between triumph and tragedy, a generic "ancient evil" antagonist, and was FULL of "show, don't tell." We're told that Celine is a master manipulator, but all she does in the game is stand around, seduce a guard for information, and not see her cousin's betrayal at all. She's not a master anything, she's a useless damsel.