855 réponses à ce sujet

[slab1028]

Late reply:

 

Whilst I agree about the war table missions (that's' why I have the mod that stops the waiting), I still disagree vehemently with the rest of your opinion. It's not all about the elvhen, even though to me it's clear that's all you want DA to be about. Unless Trespasser adds something that I have yet to see. And even if elves are the beginning and end of all magic in Thedas, it doesn't mean that's all there is to it.

 

What I'm reading from your posts is that the game is a failure because it doesn't focus enough on elves. And as much as I love Zevran and Fenris ( I adore them), there's more to the game than just elves, elves, elves.

My opinion was based on allowing Solas to introduce the end of Thedas theme in Trespasser. There is no fix for the Elvahn now. The central theme in DA is magic which comes from the Elvahn and can only be restored by destroying Thedas and ending future DA games completely. How is that a success?

[vbibbi]

If the intention was that man would become Corypheus that would have been the single worse idea BioWare could have ever done ever.  

Me too.  It seems to the be curse of DA bad guys.  They are...well...uh... let me think...unknowns.  We just do not get to talk or relate to them.  Aside from the Architect or Arishok which were DAs two best antagonists.  This is one of the reasons I really approve of what they did with Solas. 

 

Bioware needs to remember that their villains are at their best when they are humanized and we can relate to them (even if we in no way agree with them). And generally, this is done by giving them screen time and interaction with the PC. While Archie's plan was abhorrent to me, I could see where he was coming from in seeing "his people" as facing genocide, and it was cool to interact with an antagonist who didn't want to fight us at all, and could optionally not be fought during the entire game. (I miss Planescape Torment) The Arishok was another great character, we could try to earn his respect, he was surprisingly reasonable for most of his appearance (giving us a heads up that thieves had stolen his fake-quamek) and you could see he was a person stuck in an awful situation and trying to figure out his best options.

 

Why not have Florianne share Gaspard's disgust of the Game, but have her decide she'll abolish the entire system if she can eliminate the current nobility and start from scratch? Give her better motivations than "It seems you've fallen into my trap, Mr. Bond". Why not swap Alexius and Erimond, so the Tevinter magister has a legitimate hatred of darkspawn and the Blight, and irrationally has a hatred for the Wardens who have failed to save his family or eliminate darkspawn? I could see him jumping at the change for misguided revenge against an organization that is supposed to defend the world against what killed is wife and is slowly killing his son. Erimond was just there to wear a scraggly goatee and insult Clarel.

[Teddie Sage]

My opinion was based on allowing Solas to introduce the end of Thedas theme in Trespasser. There is no fix for the Elvahn now. The central theme in DA is magic which comes from the Elvahn and can only be restored by destroying Thedas and ending future DA games completely. How is that a success?

Dragon Age isn't just about the Elvhen. You make it sound like it's the only thing that matters, it's not. 

[Al Foley]

Bioware needs to remember that their villains are at their best when they are humanized and we can relate to them (even if we in no way agree with them). And generally, this is done by giving them screen time and interaction with the PC. While Archie's plan was abhorrent to me, I could see where he was coming from in seeing "his people" as facing genocide, and it was cool to interact with an antagonist who didn't want to fight us at all, and could optionally not be fought during the entire game. (I miss Planescape Torment) The Arishok was another great character, we could try to earn his respect, he was surprisingly reasonable for most of his appearance (giving us a heads up that thieves had stolen his fake-quamek) and you could see he was a person stuck in an awful situation and trying to figure out his best options.

 

Why not have Florianne share Gaspard's disgust of the Game, but have her decide she'll abolish the entire system if she can eliminate the current nobility and start from scratch? Give her better motivations than "It seems you've fallen into my trap, Mr. Bond". Why not swap Alexius and Erimond, so the Tevinter magister has a legitimate hatred of darkspawn and the Blight, and irrationally has a hatred for the Wardens who have failed to save his family or eliminate darkspawn? I could see him jumping at the change for misguided revenge against an organization that is supposed to defend the world against what killed is wife and is slowly killing his son. Erimond was just there to wear a scraggly goatee and insult Clarel.

Epically insult Clarel but point taken. 

[TeffexPope]

lol, it's hilarious how the OP thinks his (very very minority) opinion is fact. It's like he's completely oblivious to any other point of view.

[Rekkampum]

I would not go that far and say DAI is a failure. Its not the best game nor the worst.

 

You want to see failure? Go play Fable 3.

 

NOW ​THAT ​IS BLASPHEMY!​

[D_Schattenjager]

If the intention was that man would become Corypheus that would have been the single worse idea BioWare could have ever done ever.  

Me too.  It seems to the be curse of DA bad guys.  They are...well...uh... let me think...unknowns.  We just do not get to talk or relate to them.  Aside from the Architect or Arishok which were DAs two best antagonists.  This is one of the reasons I really approve of what they did with Solas. 

Not DA ... Bioware

Solas is probably the only complex main antagonist I have seen since Irenicus & Melissan

The rest of them fit into Muwhahahaha category (Morag, Mephistopheles, King of Shadows, Reapers) or simply don't matter (Isair and Madae)

[Elhanan]

Not DA ... Bioware
Solas is probably the only complex main antagonist I have seen since Irenicus & Melissan
The rest of them fit into Muwhahahaha category (Morag, Mephistopheles, King of Shadows, Reapers) or simply don't matter (Isair and Madae)

Loghain is still debated on the forums after all these years, so what may be considered complex for some may not be the case for others; many, many others.

And I would add Revan, Bhelen, and a few possible others to my list.

[D_Schattenjager]

Personally like closing rifts, and the experience and rewards are so much better than the Bottles of Thedas; my own personal thorn. But I keep seeing this bit about them not affecting the environs, and that is not always the case.

The Hinterlands, Exalted Plains, Crestwood, The Lion, and the Emerald Graves seem to all include locations majorly affected by rifts. The Hinterlands even has a major storyline moment on the way to Redcliffe, as well as showing other towers and fortifications that have been decimated. Crestwood also has major storyline moments indicating the danger, and all of the Dales settings have the local populace being terrorized and affected by these rifts and the demons wandering from them. While not every rift has such illustrations, they are included in the game.

These are also the locations with more of a non-nomadic population, while the Storm Coast, Fallow Mire, Western Approach, Hissing Wastes, and the Forbidden Oasis are less centralized generally. These contain the rifts that may seem less hazardous as there are fewer humanoids as a rule. Still, even these rifts, and much like the Dragons they house are seemingly a danger like the others.

DAI is an extremely good RPG ... the only flaw is that it is closer to Skyrim than its own predecessors. 

 

Only 3 maps actually contribute to the Main plot ... Hinterlands, Crestwood and Western Approach, beyond that all the Main Story takes place in its own unique maps. For me this affected my view of the game most. It felt as if the maps were developed as standalone areas disconnected from the central story, Skyrim style. This was a major departure from previous Bioware games.

 

A few examples

-----------

Exalted Plain, Freemen, Emerald Graves could have connected to main plot. We have to move a significant force through the the Dales to reach the Arbor Wilds. So we should solve Freemen plot and control Exalted Plan & Emerald Graves (establish all camps and remove the rifts) before we can move Orlesian & Inquisition forces through the area. Combining this with a few Board missions and suddenly you have a much more integrated game

-----------

Hissing Wastes is a complete waste and does not contribute anything beyond some high level gear. The gear could have been accumulated inside Emprise de Lion 

-----------

Oasis Map could have been a part of Western Approach with Oasis area accessible before Haven battle and some operations to open up remaining Western Approach once Crestwood is done. The expanded area would have the Keep 

-----------

 

Perhaps they were limited by prev gen console support as Tresspasser gives us a glimpse at what an only curr gen console game could have been. I hope there is a major improvement in DA4. 

[Elhanan]

DAI is an extremely good RPG ... the only flaw is that it is closer to Skyrim than its own predecessors. 
 
Only 3 maps actually contribute to the Main plot ... Hinterlands, Crestwood and Western Approach, beyond that all the Main Story takes place in its own unique maps. For me this affected my view of the game most. It felt as if the maps were developed as standalone areas disconnected from the central story, Skyrim style. This was a major departure from previous Bioware games.
 
A few examples
-----------
Exalted Plain, Freemen, Emerald Graves could have connected to main plot. We have to move a significant force through the the Dales to reach the Arbor Wilds. So we should solve Freemen plot and control Exalted Plan & Emerald Graves (establish all camps and remove the rifts) before we can move Orlesian & Inquisition forces through the area. Combining this with a few Board missions and suddenly you have a much more integrated game
-----------
Hissing Wastes is a complete waste and does not contribute anything beyond some high level gear. The gear could have been accumulated inside Emprise de Lion 
-----------
Oasis Map could have been a part of Western Approach with Oasis area accessible before Haven battle and some operations to open up remaining Western Approach once Crestwood is done. The expanded area would have the Keep 
-----------
 
Perhaps they were limited by prev gen console support as Tresspasser gives us a glimpse at what an only curr gen console game could have been. I hope there is a major improvement in DA4.

In Skyrim, it is left to the Player to connect the quests; not the game. In DAI, the tie can be the PC and/ or Companions themselves, and often are closely connected anyway. But as Blackwall says, the Player is after all, in charge.

It would be difficult to skip the three areas of the Dales with an Elven Inq, let alone the lore that is tied to Solas. And securing the alliance with Orlais is rather key, though not part of the main story itself. And The Lion would also appears to be a major area due to the Red Lyrium mines and the unique Demon there. And like themes can be found involving other areas outside the Dales.

A major thread does not seem to be needed to tie every area to the Main Quest, and is left to the choice of each Player. I rather like it this way rather than be forced to do all the content in some fashion.

[Rawgrim]

DAI is an extremely good RPG ... the only flaw is that it is closer to Skyrim than its own predecessors. 

 

Only 3 maps actually contribute to the Main plot ... Hinterlands, Crestwood and Western Approach, beyond that all the Main Story takes place in its own unique maps. For me this affected my view of the game most. It felt as if the maps were developed as standalone areas disconnected from the central story, Skyrim style. This was a major departure from previous Bioware games.

 

A few examples

-----------

Exalted Plain, Freemen, Emerald Graves could have connected to main plot. We have to move a significant force through the the Dales to reach the Arbor Wilds. So we should solve Freemen plot and control Exalted Plan & Emerald Graves (establish all camps and remove the rifts) before we can move Orlesian & Inquisition forces through the area. Combining this with a few Board missions and suddenly you have a much more integrated game

-----------

Hissing Wastes is a complete waste and does not contribute anything beyond some high level gear. The gear could have been accumulated inside Emprise de Lion 

-----------

Oasis Map could have been a part of Western Approach with Oasis area accessible before Haven battle and some operations to open up remaining Western Approach once Crestwood is done. The expanded area would have the Keep 

-----------

 

Perhaps they were limited by prev gen console support as Tresspasser gives us a glimpse at what an only curr gen console game could have been. I hope there is a major improvement in DA4. 

 

Extremely good rpg? New to the genre, aren't you?

[D_Schattenjager]

Extremely good rpg? New to the genre, aren't you?

Lol ... did you miss my listing of villains from as far back as BG 2-3 posts above ...

It is extremely good ... not the amazing or mind blowing ... but it is definitely extremely good .... by any scale of measure ...

[D_Schattenjager]

Loghain is still debated on the forums after all these years, so what may be considered complex for some may not be the case for others; many, many others.

And I would add Revan, Bhelen, and a few possible others to my list.

None of them are the final antagonist ....

[vbibbi]

DAI is an extremely good RPG ... the only flaw is that it is closer to Skyrim than its own predecessors. 

 

snip

 

Perhaps they were limited by prev gen console support as Tresspasser gives us a glimpse at what an only curr gen console game could have been. I hope there is a major improvement in DA4. 

 

I agree with most of your post, but could you elaborate on what in Trespasser shows how old gen limited the game? I'm not saying old gen didn't limit the game, we all know that, but I think Descent is a better demonstration of system limitations with the horde mobs and multilevel map.

[ShadowLordXII]

In Skyrim, it is left to the Player to connect the quests; not the game. In DAI, the tie can be the PC and/ or Companions themselves, and often are closely connected anyway. But as Blackwall says, the Player is after all, in charge.

It would be difficult to skip the three areas of the Dales with an Elven Inq, let alone the lore that is tied to Solas. And securing the alliance with Orlais is rather key, though not part of the main story itself. And The Lion would also appears to be a major area due to the Red Lyrium mines and the unique Demon there. And like themes can be found involving other areas outside the Dales.

A major thread does not seem to be needed to tie every area to the Main Quest, and is left to the choice of each Player. I rather like it this way rather than be forced to do all the content in some fashion.

 

Which is problematic when only less than a third of total areas connect in someway to the main story. It makes the rest of the areas seem optional or akin to filler.

 

I'd say that at least a few more areas should have been connected to the main story and therefore, you have some actual incentive to go there. Like maybe going to the Dales is actively necessary to eventually access the Arbor Wilds or that you need to clear out at least one or two areas in the Dales to create access to the Western Approach/Adamant. 

 

Having about half of the areas be set apart as optional is fine and fits with how most rpgs do things, but only less than a 3rd? That's pushing it and makes the game feel like it has more padding and filler than it has substance and narrative connection.

[Elhanan]

None of them are the final antagonist ....

No, but many involve his plans which are major ties; not abstract such as the way one plays in Skyrim. And Solas somewhat wears that label.

[Elhanan]

Which is problematic when only less than a third of total areas connect in someway to the main story. It makes the rest of the areas seem optional or akin to filler.
 
I'd say that at least a few more areas should have been connected to the main story and therefore, you have some actual incentive to go there. Like maybe going to the Dales is actively necessary to eventually access the Arbor Wilds or that you need to clear out at least one or two areas in the Dales to create access to the Western Approach/Adamant. 
 
Having about half of the areas be set apart as optional is fine and fits with how most rpgs do things, but only less than a 3rd? That's pushing it and makes the game feel like it has more padding and filler than it has substance and narrative connection.

And while some would say The Lion is optional, I wouldn't due to the severity of the plat lines there; for the Mages storyline anyway (have not yet allied with Templars). And I shall not criticize granting the Player more optional content over a larger linear path.

Also as mentioned, Companions are tied to some of these areas, and they are considered by some to be of importance. The Storm Coast ties to the Iron Bull, the Exalted Plains to Solas, and the market of Orlais with Vivienne, Sera, Blackwall, and Cassandra. The priority of the team and the that of the quests therein is left to each Player, and I for one prefer it over that of mandatory backtracking and linear tales.

[pace675]

Opinions, are like bums, everyone has one and they all stink.  As for your observation: (IN TL;DR form) DA is all about the elves so it is bad!

 

Um no, each iteration of the the Dragon Age franchise pushes the story forward, driving the the narritive into new directions, yes this  one seemed perfectly aligned with femme dalish with a romance option with the Trickster. With that statement said, the original dragon age had an inkling towards human noble. The second in the series, was a human only. Barring the fact DA:O was about the blight and the PC choices leading up to the climax, with DA:2 about a nobody becoming Viscount(ess) and putting down a Qunari seige.

 

From beginning to now, all of the lore has been adding to the now; a war from the past finally makes its marks on the present, while still paying some homage to our past decision and working into the current world while trying to carry a narrative. 

 

Now what is the narrative they are presenting: the beginning of Thedas, and since we are (will) chase down the Trickster, which would put a rest to that journey and open up a plethora of options for the devs (Assuming that *spoiler* would be put down and the PC will save the day!), well after the (I assume) epic end of the next iteration of DA. That will leave us the player with another 2 maybe 3 protagonists of current timeline to be awesome as another character (we still have 2 Arcdemons and if we get those a nice wrap-up/conclusion to the DA story (there might be more in this universe but it is for the dev to explore XD).

[Rawgrim]

Lol ... did you miss my listing of villains from as far back as BG 2-3 posts above ...

It is extremely good ... not the amazing or mind blowing ... but it is definitely extremely good .... by any scale of measure ...

 

150 hours of picking flowers. 10 hours of story. Almost zero control over the player characters personality. And almost no choices when leveling up. Its mediocre at best.

[Al Foley]

Extremely good rpg? New to the genre, aren't you?

 

I'm not, and I happen to agree with...them.  

150 hours of picking flowers. 10 hours of story. Almost zero control over the player characters personality. And almost no choices when leveling up. Its mediocre at best.

You and I played very different games.  I would almost say you accidentally put your copy of Skyrim in instead of DA I...but that'd be rude. 

[Elhanan]

I'm not, and I happen to agree with...them.  
You and I played very different games.  I would almost say you accidentally put your copy of Skyrim in instead of DA I...but that'd be rude.

Ironically, many of the reasons for those complaints have been dealt with in various forms: faster harvest times, increased difficulty via Trials, easier crafting via Golden Nug, etc. But as we all know, Haters gotta hate....

[Morroian]

Opinions, are like bums, everyone has one and they all stink.  As for your observation: (IN TL;DR form) DA is all about the elves so it is bad!

 

Um no, each iteration of the the Dragon Age franchise pushes the story forward, driving the the narritive into new directions, yes this  one seemed perfectly aligned with femme dalish with a romance option with the Trickster. With that statement said, the original dragon age had an inkling towards human noble. The second in the series, was a human only. 

 

And aligned to Hawke being a mage.

[Sifr]

And aligned to Hawke being a mage.

 

And for non-mages, geared towards being a mage-sympathiser because their father and sister were both apostates.

[IanPolaris]

And for non-mages, geared towards being a mage-sympathiser because their father and sister were both apostates.

 

Not just that but at the end Meridith was LOOOONY TUNES.  The moral decision to support the mages is not (or should not be) a hard one even if you don't agree with the rebel mages.  Meridith over a fit of temper essentially wanted to KILL all mages in the circle tower while completely ignoring the obviously (and self-confessed) guilty party (a renegade Grey Warden Mage) right in front of her!  If she had demanded the circles be locked down and Anders executed on the spot while order was restored, that would be one thing but she went way over the line in demanding slaughter for people that had nothing to due with the act of terrorism.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Not DA ... Bioware

Solas is probably the only complex main antagonist I have seen since Irenicus & Melissan

The rest of them fit into Muwhahahaha category (Morag, Mephistopheles, King of Shadows, Reapers) or simply don't matter (Isair and Madae)

 

King of Shadows was NW2, so Obsidian.

 

I'd argue Amelissan was fairly mwahahaha too.

 

You forgot Sun Li, which IMO is Bioware's best antagonist. The Arishok, Loghain, and to a lesser extent the Illusive Man count as complex major antagonists. Even Meredith before she went full Red Lyrium.