855 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

Being a financial succes, does not mean that it was a succes overall, unless you got a very limited view. All of the transformer movies were financially succesful, but none of them will be remembered as great movie artistry.
 
And you understand that cutscenes are skippable? If you don't want to watch a particular scene you skip it. But at least the scenes are tehre, and they advance the plot and engage the player. None of that for DA:I. What few cutscenes there are in DA:I are so laughably bad. Iron Bull's companion quests is the best(read: worst) example of that. The pacing and engagement in that quest is down right HORRID. Never have I felt so disengaged from my companion in a BioWare game than I did during taht quest. And the worst part is, that the setup had great potential. We could have had a heartwrenching last stand cutscene of the Bull's Chargers holding that hill, or a dramatic sequence of the Dreadnaught going down. What did we get though? Absolute tosh.

That is why the 130+ GOTY Awards are valuable, as it indicates a critical success, too; both from inside and outside the industry.

And I know that many cut-scenes can be skipped, but ME included interrupts that required interaction when prompted. In DAI, it seems that some cannot be skipped; a reason for another thread and my sig.

I do not care for the IB; bench him for the entire game, and speak mostly to Krem instead. But DAI does have some great cut-scenes: Solas, Cole, Blackwall, Hawke, and Vivienne all offer some fine examples of storytelling. And while that is my opinion, it would seem more agree with this than oppose it; hence the success financially and critically.

[vbibbi]

Well the obvious things like hair, cheesy armors etc ... non obvious things like limited dynamic environment changes, limited visible result of decisions (Mage vs Templars)   

I think these and a few more were the result of prev gen support

 

With Tresspasser we got two new things

Trials --> Walk Softly and the Complexity it brings into the Game.

Two upgrades available for each Active Ability

They add a considerable amount of complexity to the combat. Trails adds new abilities, its not very easy to program these into AI, so my general guess is that we would have got this from beginning itself if we didn't have prev gen console support ...

 

Then we also have the infamous drop of the Crestwood Mission from Alpha. I think we would have also got it or something similar if we had only curr gen console support.

 

No I get the limitations in the base game. You mentioned that Trespasser showed what Bioware can do when not limited by last gen. I'm not seeing anything in that DLC specifically which greatly improved upon the game engine from the base game. More enemies per encounter, yes, but if I were to say Trespasser shows how Bioware can improve performance over their limited design in the base game, I wouldn't be able to back up that statement.

 

I'm not sure how adding alternate ability upgrades was not possible from launch, that seems more like a deadline and resource management issue. It takes time to implement twice as many ability affects and bug test them, and judging from the bugs introduced along with the DLC, they still didn't take care of everything.

[EmperorSahlertz]

That is why the 130+ GOTY Awards are valuable, as it indicates a critical success, too; both from inside and outside the industry.

And I know that many cut-scenes can be skipped, but ME included interrupts that required interaction when prompted. In DAI, it seems that some cannot be skipped; a reason for another thread and my sig.

I do not care for the IB; bench him for the entire game, and speak mostly to Krem instead. But DAI does have some great cut-scenes: Solas, Cole, Blackwall, Hawke, and Vivienne all offer some fine examples of storytelling. And while that is my opinion, it would seem more agree with this than oppose it; hence the success financially and critically.

First of all "130+ GOTY awards" means absolutely nothing in this business. Half of the Call of Duty games get that. And it is easy to get, since there are over 3500 magazines and websites each dealing out their own GOTY award. All that really means anything in this business, is the legacy the game leaves behind. And I can assure you, that DA:I will NOT be one of the games looked back upon, as a gamechanger or "one of the classics". It will rather end up in the pile of mediocrity, along with 99% of the rest of the game.

 

Secondly, you own personal feelings about IB is completely irrelevant for the point I was making. The point is that the quest was CRAP, entirely because of poor direction and cinematography.

 

Thirdly, of the ones you mention, pretty much only Blackwall got some decent direction and cinematography in his personal quest. Solas=****. Vivienne=****. Cole=****. All of them were too short, too unengaging, and too damn irrelevant. All you are ever left with, after completing ANY quest in DA:I is an overwhelming (or rather; underwhelming) sensation of "Meh..."

[Elhanan]

First of all "130+ GOTY awards" means absolutely nothing in this business. Half of the Call of Duty games get that. And it is easy to get, since there are over 3500 magazines and websites each dealing out their own GOTY award. All that really means anything in this business, is the legacy the game leaves behind. And I can assure you, that DA:I will NOT be one of the games looked back upon, as a gamechanger or "one of the classics". It will rather end up in the pile of mediocrity, along with 99% of the rest of the game.
 
Secondly, you own personal feelings about IB is completely irrelevant for the point I was making. The point is that the quest was CRAP, entirely because of poor direction and cinematography.
 
Thirdly, of the ones you mention, pretty much only Blackwall got some decent direction and cinematography in his personal quest. Solas=****. Vivienne=****. Cole=****. All of them were too short, too unengaging, and too damn irrelevant. All you are ever left with, after completing ANY quest in DA:I is an overwhelming (or rather; underwhelming) sensation of "Meh..."

First of all, the awards are from inside and outside the industry, so any possible bias is restricted.

Second, my opinion is just as worthy as any other, so it would seem that yours is as poor as mine.

Third simply reiterates the second. However, my opinion is supported by a GOTY edition that got its title from more opinions than just my own.

[EmperorSahlertz]

First of all, the awards are from inside and outside the industry, so any possible bias is restricted.

Second, my opinion is just as worthy as any other, so it would seem that yours is as poor as mine.

Third simply reiterates the second. However, my opinion is supported by a GOTY edition that got its title from more opinions than just my own.

Okay, since this apparently isn't getting through. Your opinion of IB, does NOT change the fact that his quest was poorly handled. If you claim that you liked it, then that simply means you got poor taste, or worse yet, is just a fanboy who refuses to acknowledge your fiction of choice's shortcommings. Because IB's personal quest was objectively badly directed. Simple as that.

 

And again. GOTY awards means NOTHING. There is no consensus between the merits of achieving one. There are no standardized rules. Hell, there is no rule excluding magazines and websites from giving out multiple GOTY awards the same year. They are literally worthless stamps, that ignorant people take for a stamp of quality.

To summarize, they are NOT the oscars of the gaming world. They are more similar to the "BUY NOW!" stamp in the local store.

[ShadowLordXII]

First of all, the awards are from inside and outside the industry, so any possible bias is restricted.

Second, my opinion is just as worthy as any other, so it would seem that yours is as poor as mine.

Third simply reiterates the second. However, my opinion is supported by a GOTY edition that got its title from more opinions than just my own.

 

1) Doubtful on personal bias being restricted. The VG industry has been getting heat for bias for several years now.

 

2/3) Careful. People are free to their opinion, but that doesn't mean that all opinions are necessarily equal. An observation is only as credible as the objective facts that are noted and supported. The fact that a game as a GOTY edition doesn't make your opinion more weighty than others, it just means that BW happened to want to make an edition of the game with all dlc included. That has more to do with business and marketing than a sign of quality.

[Elhanan]

Okay, since this apparently isn't getting through. Your opinion of IB, does NOT change the fact that his quest was poorly handled. If you claim that you liked it, then that simply means you got poor taste, or worse yet, is just a fanboy who refuses to acknowledge your fiction of choice's shortcommings. Because IB's personal quest was objectively badly directed. Simple as that.
 
And again. GOTY awards means NOTHING. There is no consensus between the merits of achieving one. There are no standardized rules. Hell, there is no rule excluding magazines and websites from giving out multiple GOTY awards the same year. They are literally worthless stamps, that ignorant people take for a stamp of quality.
To summarize, they are NOT the oscars of the gaming world. They are more similar to the "BUY NOW!" stamp in the local store.

It means I have not played his quest, so no opinion on it. Assumptions are NOT recommended....

Outside industry awards are there, too. While one may believe all these varied awards can be bought, evidence is lacking especially when there are those outside the wheelhouse. And while we may or may not like such awards, those within the industry value them, and they do have worth.

[Elhanan]

1) Doubtful on personal bias being restricted. The VG industry has been getting heat for bias for several years now.
 
2/3) Careful. People are free to their opinion, but that doesn't mean that all opinions are necessarily equal. An observation is only as credible as the objective facts that are noted and supported. The fact that a game as a GOTY edition doesn't make your opinion more weighty than others, it just means that BW happened to want to make an edition of the game with all dlc included. That has more to do with business and marketing than a sign of quality.

* Reason I mentioned award granted outside the industry, too.

* Agreed. An informed opinion generally has more worth than one without info. But those in this thread that try and defend a failed game are not using the information available.

[EmperorSahlertz]

It means I have not played his quest, so no opinion on it. Assumptions are NOT recommended....

Outside industry awards are there, too. While one may believe all these varied awards can be bought, evidence is lacking especially when there are those outside the wheelhouse. And while we may or may not like such awards, those within the industry value them, and they do have worth.

So you havn't even played the entire game, yet you proclaim it a masterpiece... And yet you try to lecture others about assumptions being bad.... The gall...

 

And you evidently don't got a clue about the VG industry and what exactly a GOTY is.. But **** it, you obviously don't wanna be educated about it either..

[thats1evildude]

Solas=****. Vivienne=****. Cole=****. All of them were too short, too unengaging, and too damn irrelevant.

 

I thought they were all touching, on the whole. In particular, I quite liked how Cole's quest was handled, and how it demonstrated the futility of revenge.

 

The only personal quest I disliked in DAI was Varric's quest, mostly because it means retreading old ground with under-levelled enemies and having to put up with Bianca's smarter-than-thou attitude.

 

 

And again. GOTY awards means NOTHING. There is no consensus between the merits of achieving one. There are no standardized rules. Hell, there is no rule excluding magazines and websites from giving out multiple GOTY awards the same year.

 

By that logic, there is no merit to winning an Oscar for Best Picture either, as there are no standardized rule for what determines "Best Picture" aside from quality in direction, writing, acting, lighting, editing and so forth. And there is never consensus within the film industry on the final award-winner.

[Elhanan]

So you havn't even played the entire game, yet you proclaim it a masterpiece... And yet you try to lecture others about assumptions being bad.... The gall...
 
And you evidently don't got a clue about the VG industry and what exactly a GOTY is.. But **** it, you obviously don't wanna be educated about it either..

I did not use Friendly Fire and other Player optional materials either. What I did play was masterful. And am guessing that your opinion is not based on experiencing all the content either. Still have yet to experience it all, and I have over 1030+ hrs.

Not claiming to be an expert on the industry, but since it would seem that I know more than some critics, that does not bode well for the value of their insights....

[thats1evildude]

So you havn't even played the entire game...

 

Who does? There's a damn lot to do in this game even before you consider how different choices can impact each playthrough. I like DAI, but I'm not going to devote my life to playing it.

[Elhanan]

Who does? There's a damn lot to do in this game even before you consider how different choices can impact each playthrough. I like DAI, but I'm not going to devote my life to playing it.

Have played DAO over 20 times; still find new dialogue conversations. And over 2800+ hrs in Skyrtim; still have content that remains undiscovered.

[vbibbi]

Who does? There's a damn lot to do in this game even before you consider how different choices can impact each playthrough. I like DAI, but I'm not going to devote my life to playing it.

 

I've played through the game a few times now. I'm usually a completionist, so most of my runs I've done all of the quests in my log. I could have missed some along the way, but every quest I encountered I completed.

 

I think a big issue in this discussion is playstyle. Personally, I prefer to complete as much as possible in a game, so when much of what I'm spending my time doing is rote chores (rifts, collections, landmarks, etc.) it becomes less fun for me to complete a playthrough. I didn't have this problem in the previous two games because there was less padded content that stretched out playing time.

[Solace]

I think this is a cool game, and do not think it was a failure but.. this game was dumbed down to accommodate new and below average rpg players. I don't like that this game is closer to an action game than a tactical rpg game.

[Elhanan]

I've played through the game a few times now. I'm usually a completionist, so most of my runs I've done all of the quests in my log. I could have missed some along the way, but every quest I encountered I completed.
 
I think a big issue in this discussion is playstyle. Personally, I prefer to complete as much as possible in a game, so when much of what I'm spending my time doing is rote chores (rifts, collections, landmarks, etc.) it becomes less fun for me to complete a playthrough. I didn't have this problem in the previous two games because there was less padded content that stretched out playing time.

Generally a completionist myself. That said, with nine companions, it will be difficult to utilize every combo completely; to hear all the banter and experience every dialogue choice within each quest.

[thats1evildude]

I've played through the game a few times now. I'm usually a completionist, so most of my runs I've done all of the quests in my log. I could have missed some along the way, but every quest I encountered I completed.

 

I think a big issue in this discussion is playstyle. Personally, I prefer to complete as much as possible in a game, so when much of what I'm spending my time doing is rote chores (rifts, collections, landmarks, etc.) it becomes less fun for me to complete a playthrough. I didn't have this problem in the previous two games because there was less padded content that stretched out playing time.

 

Whereas my playstyle is to have one completionist "canon" run, and on subsequent playthroughs (which probably won't get finished), I largely limit myself to stuff I couldn't get the last time.

[vbibbi]

Whereas my playstyle is to have one completionist "canon" run, and on subsequent playthroughs (which probably won't get finished), I largely limit myself to stuff I couldn't get the last time.

 

I really wish I could do that most runs. But then I see the unfinished journal section and

[thats1evildude]

Not me. Subsequent runs are just experiments, not the "true" story of the PC. Thus, an unfinished journal is irrelevant.

[Cobra's_back]

Have played DAO over 20 times; still find new dialogue conversations. And over 2800+ hrs in Skyrtim; still have content that remains undiscovered.

Skyrim and DAO, DAI are my favorite. I did finally get all caves and quests done in Skyrim.

[Solace]

I really wish I could do that most runs. But then I see the unfinished journal section and

You must be an mmorpg player, or a former one. I find that i'm the same-way, but that impulse did not start until I played mmorpgs for awhile.

[Nefla]

Okay, since this apparently isn't getting through. Your opinion of IB, does NOT change the fact that his quest was poorly handled. If you claim that you liked it, then that simply means you got poor taste, or worse yet, is just a fanboy who refuses to acknowledge your fiction of choice's shortcommings. Because IB's personal quest was objectively badly directed. Simple as that.

You're trying to reason with someone who thinks that the sidequests in DA:I were amazing because they had no cutscenes or dialogue options so that you could make it up yourself and imagine everything in your head...

[Zatche]

Okay, since this apparently isn't getting through. Your opinion of IB, does NOT change the fact that his quest was poorly handled. If you claim that you liked it, then that simply means you got poor taste, or worse yet, is just a fanboy who refuses to acknowledge your fiction of choice's shortcommings. Because IB's personal quest was objectively badly directed. Simple as that.

Fact? Objectively? I mean, I thought the quest could've been better directed to enhance the drama (though I found the actual content and the choice provided engaging), but that's clearly an opinion.

[TeffexPope]

Fact? Objectively? I mean, I thought the quest could've been better directed to enhance the drama (though I found the actual content and the choice provided engaging), but that's clearly an opinion.

Just look at his signature, man! He ain't nothin to mess with. 

[Elhanan]

You're trying to reason with someone who thinks that the sidequests in DA:I were amazing because they had no cutscenes or dialogue options so that you could make it up yourself and imagine everything in your head...

Not quite; not made any worse than having zot expensive cut-scenes for minor encounters, and possibly improves the RP aspect of the game by having more Player control over what is said. Head canon is not required, though imagination is recommended over having films depict everything.