855 réponses à ce sujet

[DWareFan]

 

I love the irony when someone mentions all the GOTY awards that DA:I won some clown always says that EA bought off the sites and groups that awarded them, and yet a lot of these same people are the ones always bragging about how many GOTY awards that The Witcher 3 won most, if not all are and were from the VERY SAME sites and groups! If we apply that same logic then I guess they're saying CDPR is just as guilty (maybe more so as they always brag that TW3 won more awards than DA:I did) as EA is in bribery for GOTY awards. 

 

The main quests were brilliantly done as were the companion quests.  By the time I finished the game (yesterday), I need a long break before I do the DLC because I can't stomach the fetch quests any more.  The Hissing Wastes wore me down to nothing.  I'd give it GOTY for story content.  I would not if the story wasn't there.

[Nefla]

Shouldn't it fall on us players to be attentive though? I mean the game tells us the "why" all the time. If we then choose to ignore that and instead, as you say, focus on collecting iron, skins and herbs. Whose fault is that? I say it is the players fault. Unless it is a game full of handholding and NO STRAYING OFF THE PATH we are after.

Well, the game does force you to stop the story and go off the path to do random tasks and farm power. Most of the things you do to get power do involve running around and finding herbs or goats, pitching tents, or whatever. Definitely messes up the pacing and sense of urgency.

[correctamundo]

It is the responsibility of the player to pay attention to the game and the plot, yes. But it's the responsibility of the game to make this intuitive and flow well. I don't consider it good game design that to understand a quest, I have to ping the radar everywhere to make sure I've picked up all of the journal entries, and then have to flip through my codex to try and find all associated writing for that quest. If they are going to keep the tell rather than show model, can't they at least update the quest log to include all associated journal entries? Keep all related information together for ease of the player? I find it very difficult in Chateau D'Onterre, for example, to piece together the story as I play it, since it relies on scattered journal entries to explain the plot. The codex lists items alphabetically rather than by quest, and if one codex is under Letters and Notes and one is under History, there is no easy way to collate everything and make sense of the quest. And once the arcane horror is killed and the quest ends, the completed quests entry still doesn't provide much detail.

 

I am not sure I fully understand the thing you are having with the ping. But anyway, outside the mainstory quests there are unlockable zones. When you unlock a zone you get a why. And then when you meet Harding you further why's. After that you meet assorted questgivers out in the fields all who give you more why's. intially you get overarching why's from the council as it were and they get replenished as the game continues.

[Elhanan]

Well, the game does force you to stop the story and go off the path to do random tasks and farm power. Most of the things you do to get power do involve running around and finding herbs or goats, pitching tents, or whatever. Definitely messes up the pacing and sense of urgency.

Nope; one may purchase Influence & Power from a Skyhold merchant if they choose. Personally do this to help pick up some needed Perks; my choice as to how to spend resources. No farming required.

[Nefla]

Nope; one may purchase Influence & Power from a Skyhold merchant if they choose. Personally do this to help pick up some needed Perks; my choice as to how to spend resources. No farming required.

You can only get that guy after your inquisition reaches a certain level, and you need to grind money to buy that power which means doing more random boring tasks. The mechanic was a hindrance, added nothing to the game, and was there simply to artificially pad out playtime.

[correctamundo]

Well, the game does force you to stop the story and go off the path to do random tasks and farm power. Most of the things you do to get power do involve running around and finding herbs or goats, pitching tents, or whatever. Definitely messes up the pacing and sense of urgency.

 

Restoring order and securing peace by furthering Inquistion influence and closing rifts/killing demons is the whole purpose if the inquisition. But no, finding herbs or goats are not the primary way to power. Breaking the templars of the west and mages of witchwood is better and more pressing. Rescuing are hostage-held soldiers is something for the assquisitor to ignore of course. The rest would probably deem it worthwhile. You can of course ignore campsites on the way if it is to much a hassle. But all in all the Fallow mire quest is to good to miss out on for me. It has some of the best little cut-scenes and and it gives more power than it takes.

 

Very few random tasks out there though. It is mostly part of the story and will give you more power than it takes to unlock.

[vbibbi]

I am not sure I fully understand the thing you are having with the ping. But anyway, outside the mainstory quests there are unlockable zones. When you unlock a zone you get a why. And then when you meet Harding you further why's. After that you meet assorted questgivers out in the fields all who give you more why's. intially you get overarching why's from the council as it were and they get replenished as the game continues.

 

My point with the pinging radar is that it highlights any notes in the area which might not otherwise be readily visible. In the Chateau D'Onterre example, for me to get a good understanding of the story line, I had to search through every single room and piece together the narrative through the scattered notes. But then at the end of the quest, I killed the arcane horror and quest ended. I think the journal needs a better management system, so that it links to the codex like the maps do, or include the codex text in the journal. Otherwise it's a chore to try and remember what the codex entries were named and flip between the codices and connect the dots.

 

I appreciate that the stories are not just handed to the player, but in my opinion the game goes too far in the direction of making the player work for it. When there are hundreds of notes and journals scattered around huge zones, I am less inclined to pay careful attention to each one, and thus have a harder time understanding side quests related to them. There were many such quests that did not involve speaking with a living person, just reading something and then picking up an item/killing something/reading another journal, and then the quest ends.

 

Note: what I'm referencing pertains to the side quests, not the overall zone quests or main quests. Those were explained well enough, even if in some instances (Hissing Wastes, Western Approach prior to HLtA), the reasoning for being there was weak.

[IanPolaris]

Nope; one may purchase Influence & Power from a Skyhold merchant if they choose. Personally do this to help pick up some needed Perks; my choice as to how to spend resources. No farming required.

 

Funny, I remember the game doing just that by forcing me to go to the Hinterlands where I was expressly told to farm power to advance the game.

[IanPolaris]

Restoring order and securing peace by furthering Inquistion influence and closing rifts/killing demons is the whole purpose if the inquisition. But no, finding herbs or goats are not the primary way to power. Breaking the templars of the west and mages of witchwood is better and more pressing. Rescuing are hostage-held soldiers is something for the assquisitor to ignore of course. The rest would probably deem it worthwhile. You can of course ignore campsites on the way if it is to much a hassle. But all in all the Fallow mire quest is to good to miss out on for me. It has some of the best little cut-scenes and and it gives more power than it takes.

 

Very few random tasks out there though. It is mostly part of the story and will give you more power than it takes to unlock.

 

You don't have to do any of that to advance the main quest.  All you have to do is talk with Mother Giselle and get four power.  The game doesn't care if you do that by defeating the Templars and Mages or by herding goats as long as you get that four power.

[IanPolaris]

If you plan on replaying Origins id advise reading both Stolen Throne and The Calling before you start the playthrough. They are a great insight into Ferelden, Loghain and Alistair's father and mother.

 

Asunder is great to read just after DA2 to learn about some companions you had in Origins, to learn about Cole and to see the consequences of what Anders did in DA2.

 

The Masked Empire is a awesome to read before DA:I because it gives you insight into Orlais, city / dalish elves, the Game, the rulers and players of Orlais court and its good to learn more about the Eluvians.

 

The last flight is the only one not directly connected to any of the games in terms of characters and plot. But its a nice read to learn more about Weisshaupt and the Grey Wardens, the 4th (or is it 3rd?) Blight, Blood magic and GRIPHONS!! Freaking griphons!!

 

Not any of them are mandatory to understand the games, but they are well written and will keep you interested and hooked into Dragon Age lore.

 

The difference is that you could pick up DAO and have a wonderful time playing it and learn a lot about the characters, Fereldan, Thedas, and more without ever having picked up a single book.  I honestly don't think you can say the same about DAI.  DAI seems to assume a lot of prior knowledge that IMO should not be assumed (and not just from prior games but some of the published books as well).

[Abyss108]

The difference is that you could pick up DAO and have a wonderful time playing it and learn a lot about the characters, Fereldan, Thedas, and more without ever having picked up a single book.  I honestly don't think you can say the same about DAI.  DAI seems to assume a lot of prior knowledge that IMO should not be assumed (and not just from prior games but some of the published books as well).

 

I'd say it's exactly the same in terms of needing to read the books. I played both games before reading any of the books and didn't miss anything.

 

The first few books give some background on Loghain, and Masked Empire gives some stuff on the court characters. None of it was needed to understand what was going on, I got everything I needed from talking to the characters in the game. I actually think Inquisition was better on this account, as I found Loghain to be a boring character in the first game and never really understood why he acted the way he did. I didn't have that problem in the court - I didn't even realize there was a book at the time. Same for the stuff about Cole.

 

And I don't think it's unfair for the third game in a series to assume some knowledge of the prior games. You don't watch the season finale of a TV show without watching the earlier episodes, you don't read the last book in a trilogy before the first... And if you do, you really don't have any right to complain about any gaps in knowledge.

[Elhanan]

Use the Keep to help remind me of prior games, and as I do not read much at all anymore, the books have been unnecessary.

And as mentioned, Power is easy to acquire; no need to farm for it or use content that is not desired.

[DanAxe]

The difference is that you could pick up DAO and have a wonderful time playing it and learn a lot about the characters, Fereldan, Thedas, and more without ever having picked up a single book.  I honestly don't think you can say the same about DAI.  DAI seems to assume a lot of prior knowledge that IMO should not be assumed (and not just from prior games but some of the published books as well).

 

I dont agree with you on that. People say they missed out on Inquisition story because they didnt read the Masked Empire, yet if they didnt know of Masked Empire and what it was about, they wouldnt be saying - Oh I think i missed something there ingame. You have all you need ingame to understand whats presented to you. The stuff that complements the books is a nod to people who enjoy DA lore in other formats (movie, books and comics), but is in no way something required to fully immerse yourself in the games.

[correctamundo]

You don't have to do any of that to advance the main quest.  All you have to do is talk with Mother Giselle and get four power.  The game doesn't care if you do that by defeating the Templars and Mages or by herding goats as long as you get that four power.

 

So you are doing this to please the game? Personally I tend to play games to please myself but I guess YMMV.

[correctamundo]

The difference is that you could pick up DAO and have a wonderful time playing it and learn a lot about the characters, Fereldan, Thedas, and more without ever having picked up a single book.  I honestly don't think you can say the same about DAI.  DAI seems to assume a lot of prior knowledge that IMO should not be assumed (and not just from prior games but some of the published books as well).

 

There is no difference whatsoever. DAI can be played and understood just as well as DAO without any other media.

[Daerog]

I haven't read the last three books, just The Stolen Throne and The Calling. I did fine playing DA2 and Inquisition, and I looked up all the other information afterwards by using the wikia.

 

Later, I got World of Thedas Vol 1 and 2. Those are handy in better knowing the world.

 

 

Edit: Oh, I did watch Dawn of the Seeker when it was on tv and that one Redemption or w/e it was called miniseries (the one about Tallis).

[BabyPuncher]

I would put the writing in Inquisition below par of that of a typical Call of Duty game.

 

No, that's not an exaggeration.

 

As shallow as their characters may be, as ridiculous as their ratio of plot holes to story is, one thing I can say is that when I play a Call of Duty game is there are at least a few powerful moments that grab my attention and hold it. Moments that, regardless of how silly the rest of the writing can be, demonstrate to me that these are strong, courageous characters.

 

And that's more than I can say for Inquisition. A story that nearly entirely failed to actually feature what the narrative pretended to be talking about.

 

I'm increasing convinced that the Dragon Age series is lead by people who are attempting to build a story about strength and heroism but simply don't have any clue what those words actually mean and demand or, worse, do understand and are outright contemptuous of them. People for whom the ultimate act of virtue is who can whimper the hardest and loudest in 'support' of marginalized minorities.

[darkway1]

Shouldn't it fall on us players to be attentive though? I mean the game tells us the "why" all the time. If we then choose to ignore that and instead, as you say, focus on collecting iron, skins and herbs. Whose fault is that? I say it is the players fault. Unless it is a game full of handholding and NO STRAYING OFF THE PATH we are after.

 

Sure,us players should be attentive but the design of DAI's openworld zones mimics that of an mmo,I collected ore and hunted rabbits and closed rifts and collected bear skins and cleared area's because the game REQUIRED me to do so,I didn't focus on doing these mindless tasks for the fun of it,it's part of the game,that's what your supposed to do.

If fetch quests out weigh story content in the zones,to the point where I forget the story,that's not the players fault,it the developers fault,it's called poor game design or using a game style not suited to drive story content.

[Elhanan]

Sure,us players should be attentive but the design of DAI's openworld zones mimics that of an mmo,I collected ore and hunted rabbits and closed rifts and collected bear skins and cleared area's because the game REQUIRED me to do so,I didn't focus on doing these mindless tasks for the fun of it,it's part of the game,that's what your supposed to do.
If fetch quests out weigh story content in the zones,to the point where I forget the story,that's not the players fault,it the developers fault,it's called poor game design or using a game style not suited to drive story content.

Perhaps I have a different game, but I did some of these same things voluntarily; no mandatory entries seen demanding hunting flora or ore, and side quests are also optional. The Player may gather Power, Influence, and XP from a variety of sources; no required tasks at all.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

The main quests were brilliantly done as were the companion quests.  By the time I finished the game (yesterday), I need a long break before I do the DLC because I can't stomach the fetch quests any more.  The Hissing Wastes wore me down to nothing.  I'd give it GOTY for story content.  I would not if the story wasn't there.

 

Honestly I don't care about what you think of DA:I and number of awards it won. My point is that people screaming about how many awards TW3 won are pretty most, if not all the same GOTY awards that DA:I won just a year earlier. 

 

I find the irony that TW3 fanboys that are always bragging about many more awards it racked up forget to mention or they don't know, care,or realize that most are from the same sites, groups, and outlets amusing. But because BioWare is owned by EA then they must have bought off those sites, groups, and outlets for the awards and because CDPR isn't owned by a major publisher (yet) it's honorable company that can do no wrong. Where I come from we call that bull crap.

 

Both won a lot of GOTY awards from multiple sites and outlets and honestly I couldn't care less if both games won none since all the GOTY awards mean the same thing that the Oscars, Emmys, and Grammys mean the same thing to: absolutely nothing.    

[Nefla]

Restoring order and securing peace by furthering Inquistion influence and closing rifts/killing demons is the whole purpose if the inquisition. But no, finding herbs or goats are not the primary way to power. Breaking the templars of the west and mages of witchwood is better and more pressing. Rescuing are hostage-held soldiers is something for the assquisitor to ignore of course. The rest would probably deem it worthwhile. You can of course ignore campsites on the way if it is to much a hassle. But all in all the Fallow mire quest is to good to miss out on for me. It has some of the best little cut-scenes and and it gives more power than it takes.

 

Very few random tasks out there though. It is mostly part of the story and will give you more power than it takes to unlock.

The Fallow Mire quest was decent but it costs 8 power to unlock the area so it wasn't worth a repeat for me. The things you find fulfilling or interesting are the things I think of as a boring chore. Killing groups of enemies and reading notes, it's not fun and doesn't make me care. Even if it did you can't deny that it breaks up the pacing of the game and kills the sense of urgency.

[Majestic Jazz]

**Disclaimer: These are all my personal opinions based on my own priorities, likes and dislikes in a game**

I believe DA:I sold very well so I assume it was a financial success and it clearly has a lot of fans as well. Personally I think it was much weaker than what I would have expected from BioWare and that has nothing to do with the elven storyline. With a few exceptions (hair, beards, most eyebrows, elf bodies) I thought the game was visually stunning. The level design was gorgeous and I loved the amount of care and detail put into everything. Even the fabric textures were spot-on realistic. The voice acting was also superb as usual and I really enjoyed getting to play a non-human again. That being said, in my book the game was weak in many ways:

-The intro: players are not introduced to the world and the story in a way that makes them care or attaches them to what's happening around them. They are simply thrust into action and explosions after two minutes of people simply telling you what happened. Who was Divine Justinia and why should I care? What is the temple of sacred ashes and what were people doing there? What was *I* doing there? Do I know anyone that was killed? To go along with that, too many characters are introduced to quickly and the game relies on the player having experience with the first two games so they already know Cassandra, Leliana, Cullen, and Varric. Add Solas and that's 5 major characters introduced within 20 minutes with hardly any screen time or interaction. Which brings me to:

-The game relies on the player's experience with past games and EU (books, comics, etc...) rather than doing much in the way of character development. Varric especially seemed so pointless in this game, I definitely felt like the writer's went "hey, Varric is popular, let's shoehorn him in!" Celine/Briala/Gaspard/Fiona weren't developed at all and I never read the books they were in so I had nothing to fill in the blanks with.

-The villain was painfully generic and boring. It takes a skilled storyteller to take the old and tired "ancient evil wizard threatens to destroy the world with his monster army" and make it interesting, DA:I wasn't one of these cases. It was as boring and cliche as you'd expect. The only thing that set it apart was that Corypheus was completely incompetent and your character just steamrolled over him and his plans at every turn. (The one exception being the battle for Haven which imo was the best sequence in the entire game).

-Outside of Skyhold there is almost nobody to talk to. The only NPCs you can interact with are shopkeepers and quest givers. No random NPCs you can simply have a conversation with to make the world feel more alive and get a handle on what's going on in the area. The quest givers themselves were also extremely lackluster to me. A lot of it is probably the zoomed out camera during conversations which doesn't let me see their face or connect with them emotionally but the dialogue with them is also quite short, usually only a few lines. BioWare didn't even bother to name most of them and instead they're "elven widow" or "herbalist" and so on.

-The companions: heresy, I know! While I didn't think the companions were horrible, imo they were weaker than any other BioWare game I've played (KotOR-present). This comes from the lack of character development for returning characters, the lack of connection between any of the companions and the plot, the lack of reaction or interaction during most quests (aside from maybe a short comment) and the fact that they never argue with or oppose you. In DA:O for example there were several times when characters would argue with you, question your decisions, suggest (or demand) you do something else, etc...In DA:I it just felt like they took a bunch of wacky personalities and put them all in a castle with no real reason to be there.

-The combat: DA combat isn't my thing in general (I like the kind of combat you find in ME2 and 3, Skyrim, and so on) but in the other two games it let me automate the tedium by setting detailed companion tactics and didn't arbitrarily restrict me to 8 abilities (and no, consoles can't be blamed for this sudden limit since all abilities were available at any time through the radial menu before). The removal of healing and the fact that enemies are damage sponges even on casual made me bring companions that were resilient rather than ones I wanted to bring because I liked them. Don't even get me started on the pants-on-head retarded Ai...

-The exploration and side quests: The vast majority of (non-companion) sidequests were completely boring and unsatisfying to me. Each one was either: talk to nameless NPC who gives you one or two lines of dialogue about some trinket they lost or need then go get the thing and return, OR read a note talking about a lost trinket, get the thing and bring it to where the note says. They were all so generic and gave me zero reason to care. The best one by far was the Crestwood undead one but even that one is something I'd consider weak to mediocre in a better game. There's no human element. I cleared out some undead and sealed a rift but who did I save? A bunch of non-reactive, non-interactive cardboard cutouts in the village? I don't care about them. The game gives me no reason to. There's not a single (non-companion)sidequest in the entire game that I think "I can't wait to do that one again!" No choices, no interesting characters, very rarely any dialogue options, just trudging around looking for lost rings and goats. I might feel differently if I loved the combat and doing these tasks gave me an excuse to fight more enemies or something but that wasn't the case. To me the exploration was pointless as well since no matter where I went there was nothing of value to find. Not even any interesting looking armor or a special companion gift that would spark a conversation like in previous games.

-The limited armor options. I was very disappointed with how little variety there was in the armor you can craft, especially for the Qunari.

-Technical issues that were never fixed (for me at least) such as the male elf arms being broken and sucked into his torso, water effects covering everything both inside and out in Therinfall Redoubt and Crestwood, party banter only triggering once every 3-6 hours of wandering (and one of the recent patches made it so party banter is completely gone from my game. Companions don't even use battle shouts anymore).

-The plot: weak and disjointed with screwed up pacing and no sense of urgency that for the most part gave me little reason to care about what was happening. The whole "chosen one who is the only person that can save the world" was not compelling here either. I give them props for attempting to break from the trope by making the chosen status an accident but it ended up exactly the same. The exceptions were the Haven battle and the Temple of Mythal. The fact that the heroes just trample Corypheus with almost no setback, no tragedy, etc...Not fun.

-The inquisitor's limited choices and limited personality. I feel like this was another case of BioWare's notorious overreaction to criticism: DA2's tones were too comical and over the top so DA:I made it so you could only be very mild and never passionate. You can be polite, neutral, or slightly cranky or joking but never boisterous, evil, ruthless, no passion. There are no good or evil choices, only A or B and since the sidequests don't have roleplaying/flavor choices, you're left with a very bland character that you have to supplement with headcanon.

-Things that make no sense: The inquisitor is accepted as the leader immediately, even while still a prisoner. The reason they give for following her orders "you're the one with the mark and the one we have to keep alive" that's unreasonable and illogical. At the end Corypheus raises up a bunch of ruins high into the sky with magic but we are never shown how or why. If he could do that, why not just let the inquisitor fall to her death? Also how did the party get down safely after Corypheus dies? In Haven after the inquisitor starts the avalanche, Corypheus has time to fry her with magic but he just stands there staring at her running away and does nothing. A lot of random details in the game felt like they had hardly any thought or effort put into them.

-The mage/templar "war:" This was built up for the whole of DA2, it should have been the main plot of DA:I but was pushed aside and resolved in a side quest where you kill a few roving bands of mages/templars. You never see a war, at most you get a small cluster of mages or templars on whichever side you choose to recruit but this was supposed to be an uprising that rocked Thedas, not the equivalent of a bandit group. This could have been a great game with an interesting plot based on the mage/templar conflict rather than "defeat ancient evil guy."

I could say more but I've ranted enough and it's time to sleep.

Best post thus far!

Deserves a quote.

[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

The Fallow Mire quest was decent but it costs 8 power to unlock the area so it wasn't worth a repeat for me. The things you find fulfilling or interesting are the things I think of as a boring chore. Killing groups of enemies and reading notes, it's not fun and doesn't make me care. Even if it did you can't deny that it breaks up the pacing of the game and kills the sense of urgency.

You make excellent posts Daughter of Denali.

[IanPolaris]

There is no difference whatsoever. DAI can be played and understood just as well as DAO without any other media.

 

I don't agree with this.  In DAO you have a great five minute exposition that explains (just enough) what the universal threat is, why it's a threat, and what your basic place is in the world as part of this.  Not only that but the background quests help you define your background and personality brilliantly all while providing an excellent tutorial for the game itself before you reach the serious part of the game proper.

 

None of that is true in DAI.  You instead have a confusing one minute cut scene where you're running for your life...without knowing how or why or what anything is, and within 20 minutes you are introduced to five new characters which are supposed to be important to you.

 

No, DAI is much worse in this regard than DAO (although admittedly not as bad in this department as DA2).

[correctamundo]

The Fallow Mire quest was decent but it costs 8 power to unlock the area so it wasn't worth a repeat for me. The things you find fulfilling or interesting are the things I think of as a boring chore. Killing groups of enemies and reading notes, it's not fun and doesn't make me care. Even if it did you can't deny that it breaks up the pacing of the game and kills the sense of urgency.

 

There is never urgency in any of these games. Why should DAI be treated differently? Not  in DAO, not DA2, not in the allmighty W3. Anyways there is more than reading notes and I still havent found a fantasy rpg that haven't included a healthy dose of killing groups of enemies. And I know you are not fond of it but I cannot see how it is in any significant way different from comparable games. There really are few games out there that combines the party-based combat with the living personalities of DA protagonist and companions though. They have cut down on the up-close cinematic conversations, that is true, but I think that will swing back in future installments. Laidlaw called it an experiment and it has been less than well received. But we'll just have to wait and see.

 

I cannot go without the goat attack. Fallow mire is a must =)