234 replies to this topic

[themageguy]

Wow, wisps of the fallen is awesome! Necromancers in general are just so, so, so good now.

Oh, and the wisps aren't "pets" per se, they're more like a passive way to enhance your own attacks, similar in some ways to the static cage upgrade. I doubt they steal exp. Although normal "spirits" do of course.

So if im worried as a necromancer that my pet will steal the xp, the wisps upgrade is my best option.

sweeeeet.

[Hsien]

how do you toggle the upgrade?

[Bigdawg13]

I don't like the change to Leaping Shot. I found the guaranteed knock-down really useful.

You can choose old then. It's a toggle!

[Bayonet Hipshot]

So far I think the only mage skill not worth upgrading for is the Energy Barrage. The resistance reduction duration is too short and the alternative upgrade lowers its damage potential significantly.

[Bigdawg13]

Why oh why couldn't they have given Shadow Strike the same treatment.  They changed the root version of the skill rather than just provide an alternative toggle.  I miss being able to reduce cooldowns.  I get that they wanted to provide an alternative to 'Looked Like it Hurt' but still a sad panda.

[draken-heart]

Why oh why couldn't they have given Shadow Strike the same treatment.  They changed the root version of the skill rather than just provide an alternative toggle.  I miss being able to reduce cooldowns.  I get that they wanted to provide an alternative to 'Looked Like it Hurt' but still a sad panda.

 

"Looked Like it Hurt" is still ten times better as it works with all crits, not just one ability. Still see nothing worth the point in that skill other than to waste it.

[rayx]

Combat roll now is ridiculously strong, especially for 2H. 250% is huge, plus low cost, almost no cooldown, quick and long range.

 

What an "excellent" game design.  

[Bigdawg13]

"Looked Like it Hurt" is still ten times better as it works with all crits, not just one ability. Still see nothing worth the point in that skill other than to waste it.

only with good crit gear.

[draken-heart]

only with good crit gear.

 

Which most people will have, due to crafting being op in this game.

[PapaCharlie9]

Wooo hoo, min/maxing hog heaven!

Just some initial thoughts and questions. I've removed SPOILER tags on the theory that if you are this deep into this thread, you don't care about spoilers.

Dispel

• Strengthened Veil:  Damage reduction 40%, duration 10 seconds

Does Strengthened Veil stack with Weakened, Horn of Valor, other damage reducts? If it does, solo Rift Mages are going to be pretty OP vs. single boss battles.


Revival

• Desperation:  Damage bonus 200%, attack speed bonus 50%, duration 10 seconds, cost 30 mana (does not revive!!!!, gives 10 seconds of afterlife type effect like Simulacrum)

Hey Potato, try this upgrade out on Revenants and Arcane Horrors. This might be able to one-shot those dudes, with a sufficiently high damage staff.

 
Static Cage:

• Tethering Cage:  Enemies outside of Cage take constant 50% weapon damage per second

I'm not sure about this one. I think I rather would have Paralyze affects all enemies, regardless of their resistance. Even so, I suppose you could target the biggest non-resistant damage dealer with the Cage as pure CC and let Tethered Cage help with adds.

Immolate

• Consuming Fire:  No more cooldown on Immolate, casting multiple times in succession costs extra mana (10 mana), duration 8 seconds

This is going to be a Rift Mages's favorite skill. Can you say infinite mana?

Wall of Fire

• Wave of Flame:  Wall of flame created at feet and moves away from you, 15 meters

This is pretty impressive, if it still panics everyone it hits. Kind of like a slow motion Mind Blast. Great way for a mage to deal with a charging mob of melee mooks.

Fire Mine

• Flaming Array:  3 mines created in front of user

Finally, parity with Spellbinders. I think I'd rather use Wave of Flame, though, and keep the knockback of the original upgrade.
 
Fade Step

• Energizing Step:  Mana recovery 25% when passing through an enemy

Meh, unless I know I'm fighting a cold resistant boss, I don't see the point of this one, unless for Necro? Now if it was 25% cooldown reduction, I'd be all over it.

Wall of Ice

• Ring of Ice:  Encases target inside ring

Awwww, why not make it be the AoE Winter's Chill that Frost Trolls get? This is too limited to be an effective CC or a damage spell. Well, except against Rage Demons maybe.

Veilstrike

• Wounded Veil:  Cooldown reduction of 50% when you take damage, and now targeted at your location

I'm thinking Rift Mage might pull ahead of KE in the OP department. A lot of love for Rift Mage in these changes.

Pull of the Abyss

• Devouring Veil:  Damage 500% 

Ditto.

Horror

• Terror:  Enemies struck do not run, and do not react until below 25% health

No way! Does that mean they are paralyzed, but in a way that doesn't invoke resistance? If this works against bosses, this is possibly the single most OP spell on this list. Can you imagine, a dragon can't move or do anything until it's down to 25% of health? Downside is no combo detonator, but heck, it's worth it for a "Hold Still And Take It" skill. Even if this doesn't work against bosses, this is the single most effective CC spell, since it has no duration! Cast, maneuver to Flank, coup de grace, repeat.

Spirit Mark

• Wisps of the Fallen:  Multiple marked targets now allowed.  When a marked target dies, a wisp appears and fights for you.  100% weapon damage, charm duration 30 seconds, cooldown reduction 5 sec

So it wasn't a bug, just an incomplete implementation of the new upgrade!

Walking Bomb

• Concentrated Detonation:  Manually detonating bomb now causes inward explosion that does 900% weapon damage but none to nearby enemies

Not quite as good as upgraded Fire Mine or MoD, but now Necro has a massive damage skill, finally.
 
Fade Cloak

• Enduring Cloak:  Lower the charge on spirit blade, the longer fade cloak lasts

Meh. I would have preferred knockback with less or no damage. Unless the charge drains very slowly. If the charge on SB is 50 and this extends Fade Cloak by 50 seconds, then that's something. It's basically Stealth + Walking Fortress for Mages then.

Disruption Field

• Charged Disruption:  When enemies take damage in disruption field, spirit blade gains power

Too costly for too little.
 
Shield Bash

• Crippling Smash:  Enemy struck by shield bash does no damage with next attack (dur. 10 sec)

Argh, this could have been great, but the duration ruins it, except for enemies resistant to knockback/stun. Most enemies aren't attacking anyway, while they recover. Could be good for Avvar Bruisers and the like.

Block and Slash

• Spinning Defense:  200% damage bonus and hits full circle

Why would I ever want the other upgrade? Unless this requires an AoE weapon?

Whirlwind

• Vortex of Steel:  Sucks in nearby enemies

Not bad, though it'd be better if it included a damage buff. If combined with an FT masterwork that buffs with nearby enemies, could be an interesting synergy.

Earthshaking Strike

• Tremor: Second blast immobilizes targets for 4 seconds

Hmm, a little CC for the 2H warrior? Very little? Might be worth it, if by "immmobilizes" it means Paralyze or Stun, for combo priming. And if that's on top of the knockback of the base attack.
 
Grappling Chain

• Chains for Days:  Pulls in all enemies, 5 meter area of effect

Similar to the new Whirlwind upgrade. Might be synergy with War Cry, if 5 meters is significantly more than "all nearby enemies".

Combat Roll

• Coming Through: Deal 250% weapon damage to enemies you roll through

Frost Step for Warriors, but using physical damage (presumably), I like it. Would be better with knockback (not to mention make more sense), but I'll take 250% damage attack where none existed before.

War Horn

• Seize the Moment: War horn no longer has a cooldown, instead its effects grow more powerful the longer you wait to use it

Huh? HOW powerful? Fear lasts longer? Is that all?
 

Charging Bull

• Light on your Feet:  faster and more control

I'll have to try this out, but it sounds promising. If it is as controllable as Frost Step, where you can run in a circle, that would be awesome! Could be the best CC skill for Warriors.

Devour

• Lifeblood: each use of devour now heals more (health 0.4% per 1% life lost, ring of pain bonus blah blah blah)

Should have been the way it worked in the first place, but nice to have.

Line in the Sand

• And No Further:  size bonus 3 m
• Everlasting Barricade:  no more cost or cooldown, and lasts until until you cancel it

How do you cancel it if you can no longer move? But this is the way it should have worked to begin with.

To the Death

• En Garde:  Guard Mount 25% (gain guard when hitting target)
• Who's Next?  Damage bonus of 30% lasts 10 seconds when challenged foe dies

This doesn't make sense. If you don't need guard against the target, you don't need this skill either. Unless, you target a weak enemy and one-shot him quickly, in order to have a powered up attack against a bigger foe nearby? Kind of complicated and not really enough of a bonus to matter. Make it 100% and it would be worth it.

Walking Fortress

• Siege-Breaker:  Gain guard when hit, 10%
• Focused Defense:  all the damage taken while walking fortress is active is converted into focus

That's pretty cool, though I'd rather have cooldown reduction instead of focus. But again, who doesn't need more Guard?

Blessed Blades

• Lights in the Shadow:  attacking enemies while influenced reduces cooldown (0.5 sec) of spell purge and wrath of heaven
• In Their Blood:  allies retain the effects for a short time after leaving area of effect

Arguably this is the way the base skill should work, and the Wrath/Purge combo is probably worth more than helping the team, but if you don't have one or the other of the combo skills, I guess this is the better choice.

Spell Purge

• Annulment: All of your templar abilities now affect magic-using enemies as well as demons

Now we are talking! Take that, Venatori Spellbinders! Wrath up side the head, Lucanus!

Twin Fangs

• Ripping Fangs:  If flanked, does 100% bonus damage and sunders armor for 8 sec
• Unyielding Fangs:  You get bonus damage if facing your target instead

Presumably the same 100% bonus as the other upgrade? Not bad. Almost makes up for the bad tracking AI.

Flank Attack

• Skirmisher:  move to stealth after second hit
• Bleeding Flanks:  Enemies bleed for 10 seconds, effect stacks

Pointless. You can get the same effect with a weapon upgrade or an accessory. Plus, who is going to give up on free Stealth?

 
Long Shot

• Archer's Lance:  long shot rips through enemies along path
• Eagle Eye:  Damage Bonus 900% at 25 meters

For once I might actually take the upgrade on this skill! Was never worth it before.

Leaping Shot

• Rolling Draw:  Next attack after does 200% bonus damage
• Shot from the shadows:  After striking with leaping shot, retreat into the shadows (i.e. stealth)

YES! Take that, DW Flank Attackers. And I like that this is a real choice. Sometimes you prefer the bonus damage, sometimes you prefer the freedom to move around the battlefield without needing to sacrifice an active skill slot for Stealth. Of course, if you always have Stealth in an active slot, this is pretty useless.

Full Draw

• Stunning Shot:  sleep duration 20 seconds
• Pinning Shot:  Immobilize duration: 5 seconds

Is "Immobilize" a new status effect? Or is it just Paralyzed or Stunned? How is this better?
 
Poisoned Weapons

• Infected Wounds:  Damage bonus of 25% on attacks
• Leeching Poison:  You gain back health when poisoned weapons is active (health amount 5%)

Nice. Another real choice, at least at low levels.

Caltrops

• Barbed Spikes: Immobilize duration 3 seconds

Also nice, much more useful than the original at low levels.

Hook and Tackle

• It beats Walking:  no cooldown or cost
• No Escape:  Enemy cannot escape you.  Free yourself by using ability again

What does this mean? Enemy can't fight back and you can do multiple free attacks? If so, Artificer was already fun but just got more fun.

Stealth

• Lost in the Shadows:  instant stealth, removes debilitating effects, and pass through enemies
• Clinging Shadows:  Remain in stealth for 3 seconds after attacking or taking damage

Whoops! This might be game breaking. For all those damage buffs that require being in stealth, it might be possible to do a two skill attack combo for massive damage. This requires further investigation.

Evade

• Shadow Step:  You now move directly through the shadows to attack or retreat as needed.

A lot of love for Assassins. This is probably the upgrade of choice for this skill.

Knockout Powder

• Rude Awakening: Does not last as long (-5 sec) but take massive damage if they wake up naturally (600% weapon damage)

Kind of like a Walking Bomb for rogues.

Shadow Strike

• Long Shadows:  Shadow strike now can be used at range

Huh? How far at range? Another potential game breaker, when combined with Clinging Shadows.
 
Flask of Fire

• Unquenchable Flames:  While active all abilities have no cooldowns
• Flaming Chain:  each unique ability increases duration of flask of fire

Uh oh, another potential game breaker. Up to six skill activations (assuming you have a Focus ability in your 8 slots) at no stamina cost, assuming the duration increase allows for that? This will take more research to min/max the ideal sequence for massive damage.

Flask of Frost

• Bitter Chill:  5 meter radius taunt
• Frostbite:  Shattered enemies while flask of frost is active deals damage to other nearby enemies (5 meter area)

A bit of a special case, but anything is better than the original upgrade!

Flask of Lightning

• Thunderstruck:  damage enemies take 300% electric damage, speed reduction bonus 39%
• Stormrage:  Lasts longer (2 seconds) and knocks back enemies while active

Ah, good. Some of the original original upgrade restored. And, knockback from a machine gun attack? Awesome!
 
Fallback Plan

• Bait and Switch:  Extends duration of fallback plan by 5 seconds
• Clear the Board:  resets all cooldowns of your abilities

Aha. A possible synergy with Clinging Shadows?

 
Mark of Death

• Lasting Mark:  Mark can no longer be manually triggered but lasts 4 seconds longer (may be bugged)
• Mark of Doom:  Mark of Death now does less damage when it expires, but much more (50%) if detonated early

Huh? Much more as compared to what? The base skill? And less as compared to what? This is very confusing. Why don't they include numbers?

This could either mean base skill does 100% if triggered and 50% if expired (how it worked pre Patch 10), and Mark of Doom does 150% if triggered. OR, it means base skill does 100% whether triggered or not, and Mark of Doom does 150% if triggered and 50% if not triggered?

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Immolate

• Consuming Fire:  No more cooldown on Immolate, casting multiple times in succession costs extra mana (10 mana), duration 8 seconds

This is going to be a Rift Mages's favorite skill. Can you say infinite mana?

 

 

I am curious. Which one would you pick for Rift Mages now ? Upgraded Immolate or Upgraded Fire Mine ? Let's say you have to choose between the two.

[Felis Menari]

Would someone be kind enough to test the damage of energy storm upgrade for the energy barrage? It claims to do 100% weapon damage per hit (If I understand it correctly) but hits random targets, but if you have only one enemy in sight it seems that the missles will all hit that one target and do the normal 66% per hit. When there are numerous enemies in sight, the hit pattern is random for me but the damage they do seem to be not on par with what I am expected.

After playing around on Vivienne, I can say with certainty that Energy Barrage's damage upgrade is completely broken. That extra damage would help a KE a *lot*. Starting to wonder if I should put off my mage run for even longer now @_@

[Bayonet Hipshot]

After playing around on Vivienne, I can say with certainty that Energy Barrage's damage upgrade is completely broken. That extra damage would help a KE a *lot*. Starting to wonder if I should put off my mage run for even longer now @_@

 

Do not upgrade Energy Barrage. The damage upgrade is useless in most cases and the elemental resistance reduction is only 4 seconds max, which is very short.

[PapaCharlie9]

I am curious. Which one would you pick for Rift Mages now ? Upgraded Immolate or Upgraded Fire Mine ? Let's say you have to choose between the two.

I assume you mean the original Fire Mine upgrade, to 1600% damage and knockback.

It depends on how many Immolates I can cast in the same duration as a Fire Mine (full cycle, including warm-up time) in 8 seconds. Even if the total damage of multiple Immolates doesn't add up to 1600%, it might still be better, given that you can target Immolate and it has a little AoE. You could cover the entire battlefield with fire before you run out of mana.

EDIT: Plus, with Pyromancer, Immolate becomes an active CC spell. Even if you can only get off 3 Immolates before mana/duration runs out, that's a lot of mob you can cover with Panic.

[Bigdawg13]

Which most people will have, due to crafting being op in this game.

 

Pre-Skyhold not so much.

 

But we're derailing here.  My point is, they tried to provide an alternative.  You can claim 'Looked like it Hurt' is superior, but the reality is, it depends on your gear.  Crit is not so easy to come by without hunting for it, especially on archers.  Not every bow schematic has offense leather slots.  And even if it does, you don't necessarily have the crit mats.

 

The point is, I wished they had not gutted Shadow Strike for the sake of early game.

 

On the other hand, it is really nice they gave an alternative to wasting a point in caltrop.  Many rogues will pick up evade, and shadow strike is right there.  And there is a great toggle upgrade for archers, who hurt for crit in every possible way.

[Bigdawg13]

how do you toggle the upgrade?

 

 

For me I just click button x when highlighting it.  Not sure what button you press on a PC.

[tcun44]

Flask of Lighting upgrade- the one with the knockback effect- not so great for a DW. You want to go to town on bad guys while time is frozen- I find that me hitting them away from me defeats the purpose.

 

I can see a lot of potential between the Ring of Doubt and the new instant kill 3 Fire Mine setup.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I assume you mean the original Fire Mine upgrade, to 1600% damage and knockback.

It depends on how many Immolates I can cast in the same duration as a Fire Mine (full cycle, including warm-up time) in 8 seconds. Even if the total damage of multiple Immolates doesn't add up to 1600%, it might still be better, given that you can target Immolate and it has a little AoE. You could cover the entire battlefield with fire before you run out of mana.

EDIT: Plus, with Pyromancer, Immolate becomes an active CC spell. Even if you can only get off 3 Immolates before mana runs out, that's a lot of mob you can cover with Panic.

 

That's the problem.

 

The base damage of Immolate is 300% and it costs 35 mana. The base damage of Fire Mine is 1600 damage and it costs 35 mana with a 3 second delay.

 

The Immolate upgrade allows us to cast unlimited Immolate for an increment of 10 mana. Now let us have do a comparison between the 2 for 6 seconds. Caster A shall cast Immolate and Caster B shall cast FireMine.

 

1 second: Casters A & B are readying themselves.

 

2 seconds: Caster A casts Immolate, uses up 35 mana and causes 300% damage. Caster B primes a Fire Mine glyph, uses up 35 mana and causes zero damage.

 

3 seconds: Caster A casts Immolate, uses up 45 mana and causes 300% damage. Caster B chills out and waits for Fire Mine to detonate while using no mana and causing no damage.

 

4 seconds: Caster A auto attacks for a bit because 35+45 = 80 mana since mages only have a base reserve of 100 mana and does no damage. Caster B chills out and waits for Fire Mine to detonate while using no mana and causing no damage.

 

5 seconds: Caster A casts Immolate again, uses up 35 mana and cause 300 damage. Caster B chills out and waits for Fire Mine to detonate while using no mana and causing no damage.

 

6: Caster A casts Immolate again, uses up 35 mana and cause 300 damage. Three seconds are up now so Caster B's Fire Mine detonates and causes 1600% damage.

 

So that's 4 Immolates costing 160 mana for a total of 1200 damage over a period of 6 seconds...Versus a Fire Mine that costs a total of 1600 damage over a period of 6 seconds.

 

Damage wise, Immolate cannot beat Fire Mine. It is extremely difficult if not impossible to do so. What's more, Immolate does not cause Panic. That would be Flashfire and Wall of Flames.

[Rynas]

So, has anyone found any kickass new combos with the new abilities?

 

The main thing I've noticed so far is the ridiculous overpoweredness of the Sigil of the Great Bear (+100% mana/stamina, -50% regeneration).  On my KE, it's actually bad for Conductive Current because I can't get rid of mana fast enough.  I imagine it must be even crazier on a RM.

[Bigdawg13]

Flask of Lighting upgrade- the one with the knockback effect- not so great for a DW. You want to go to town on bad guys while time is frozen- I find that me hitting them away from me defeats the purpose.

 

I can see a lot of potential between the Ring of Doubt and the new instant kill 3 Fire Mine setup.

 

I think that upgrade is more for archers who want to play ping pong. 

[PapaCharlie9]

So, has anyone found any kickass new combos with the new abilities?

 

The main thing I've noticed so far is the ridiculous overpoweredness of the Sigil of the Great Bear (+100% mana/stamina, -50% regeneration).  On my KE, it's actually bad for Conductive Current because I can't get rid of mana fast enough.  I imagine it must be even crazier on a RM.

I'm guessing there's an OP combo involving either Clinging Shadows or Pull of the Abyss, not used together though.Needs more research.

[Bigdawg13]

So, has anyone found any kickass new combos with the new abilities?

 

The main thing I've noticed so far is the ridiculous overpoweredness of the Sigil of the Great Bear (+100% mana/stamina, -50% regeneration).  On my KE, it's actually bad for Conductive Current because I can't get rid of mana fast enough.  I imagine it must be even crazier on a RM.

 

Not sure if this counts, but on my RM I run with another mage setup as support.  I gave him upgrade winter's grasp for the aoe damage and chill.  Now when I use my winter's grasp I see big juicy numbers out of it with the 1000% crit.

 

I should upgrade fade step to frost step and then I can zip through, turn around and winter's grasp (freeze them AND do 1000% damage) and then stonefist for pure awesome-sauce!!!!!

[PapaCharlie9]

That's the problem.

 

snip

 

Damage wise, Immolate cannot beat Fire Mine. It is extremely difficult if not impossible to do so. What's more, Immolate does not cause Panic. That would be Flashfire and Wall of Flames.

Probably true, I missed the 8 second duration the first time through.

 

However, your scenario isn't quite right. I had originally thought of Rift Mage with high mana regen as benefitting most from the Immolate upgrade. You have to apply some kind of regen to mana for your Caster A to be a fair comparison. Plus, you know, Lyrium Potion and such.

 

It may be possible to get off more than 2 Immolates in 2 seconds, also. Needs some experimentation.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Probably true, I missed the 8 second duration the first time through.

 

However, your scenario isn't quite right. I had originally thought of Rift Mage with high mana regen as benefitting most from the Immolate upgrade. You have to apply some kind of regen to mana for your Caster A to be a fair comparison. Plus, you know, Lyrium Potion and such.

 

It may be possible to get off more than 2 Immolates in 2 seconds, also. Needs some experimentation.

 

Very true. With mana regen I can see how Immolate can rival and even surpass Fire Mine.

 

Oh don't get me wrong, I would love to have Immolate over Fire Mine because it means I have less points I have to waste (picking Fire Mine exclusively over Immolate causes you to waste 1 point).

 

However, when you are playing on Nightmare + Trials, you want to have abilities that deal more than or equal to 1000% damage straight up.

 

Fire Mine, Fade Cloak and Winter's Grasp are the only abilities that do that.

[Bigdawg13]

Well the one nice thing about Immolate upgrade for RM, is my RM is almost always CD locked.  I'll have full mana and everything is on cooldown.  GAH!!!!

 

Sure I could just cheese my way through with uber crit gear from the golden nug of munchkin-dom, but I am playing a craft-limited game.

 

So far the craft-limited has been one of the more rewarding games.  Tier 1 with tier 1 mats up until skyhold.  Tier 2 with tier 2 mats until either winter palace or adamant is done with.  Tier 3 with tier 3 mats until done with Coryfish.  Then tier 4 for DLC.  Works very well and I find myself still using dropped gear.