234 réponses à ce sujet

[Aran Linvail]

So many great skill upgrades , sadly i dont have money to buy the DLC ...

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Well the one nice thing about Immolate upgrade for RM, is my RM is almost always CD locked.  I'll have full mana and everything is on cooldown.  GAH!!!!

 

Sure I could just cheese my way through with uber crit gear from the golden nug of munchkin-dom, but I am playing a craft-limited game.

 

So far the craft-limited has been one of the more rewarding games.  Tier 1 with tier 1 mats up until skyhold.  Tier 2 with tier 2 mats until either winter palace or adamant is done with.  Tier 3 with tier 3 mats until done with Coryfish.  Then tier 4 for DLC.  Works very well and I find myself still using dropped gear.

 

Does Immolate work well with powerful enemies ? I always used it before going to Skyhold but drop it later. If Immolate with its upgrade is as good as what you folks are saying I am willing to give it a shot. But does it do decent damage against tough enemies ?

[Bigdawg13]

Does Immolate work well with powerful enemies ? I always used it before going to Skyhold but drop it later. If Immolate with its upgrade is as good as what you folks are saying I am willing to give it a shot. But does it do decent damage against tough enemies ?

 

Kind of depends on their resistances.  I mean if you are using over-and-over, not sure the dot will even apply.  So really you are just getting a 300% fire spell with no cooldown and escalating costs.  Each use though would refund mana due to weakened passives.  *shrug*   300% is no 1600% but it's nothing to sneeze at either, especially since you can use it to hit a group all packed up like sardines due to PotA.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Kind of depends on their resistances.  I mean if you are using over-and-over, not sure the dot will even apply.  So really you are just getting a 300% fire spell with no cooldown and escalating costs.  Each use though would refund mana due to weakened passives.  *shrug*   300% is no 1600% but it's nothing to sneeze at either, especially since you can use it to hit a group all packed up like sardines due to PotA.

 

That's the thing. The group will be bunched up like sardines taking 500% damage & they will have Weakness applied via Veilstrike. So in this case a Fire Mine might work better.

 

Why? because 1600 + 500 = 2100% AOE weapon damage. If you upgrade Fire Mine traditionally, its 1800+500 = 2300% AOE weapon damage. If you upgrade Fire Mine with 3 glyphs you have to be close to the Pull of the Abyss but if you do, its 500+ (3x1600) = 5300% AOE weapon damage.

 

That's honestly the highest 2 ability damage combo with AOE we have seen in game. Immolate can never beat that combo, no matter what yo do,

[Bigdawg13]

That's the thing. The group will be bunched up like sardines taking 500% damage & they will have Weakness applied via Veilstrike. So in this case a Fire Mine might work better.

 

Why? because 1600 + 500 = 2100% AOE weapon damage. If you upgrade Fire Mine traditionally, its 1800+500 = 2300% AOE weapon damage. If you upgrade Fire Mine with 3 glyphs you have to be close to the Pull of the Abyss but if you do, its 500+ (3x1600) = 5300% AOE weapon damage.

 

That's honestly the highest 2 ability damage combo with AOE we have seen in game. Immolate can never beat that combo, no matter what yo do,

 

True, but then you are left there needing to auto-attack.  At least dropping several Immolates means you reduce your cooldowns on all skills.  Plus immolate immediately returns mana.  Too many times for my liking, mobs move out of the fire mine or you only hit 1. 

 

Also, these skills are not exclusive.  Drop fire mine and then start spamming immolate.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

True, but then you are left there needing to auto-attack.  At least dropping several Immolates means you reduce your cooldowns on all skills.  Plus immolate immediately returns mana.  Too many times for my liking, mobs move out of the fire mine or you only hit 1. 

 

Also, these skills are not exclusive.  Drop fire mine and then start spamming immolate.

 

That's the thing innit ? Moar damage or moar utility ? By the way, how does dropping Immolate reduce my cooldowns on all skills ?

 

In any case I have to ask: In your no crafting playthrough, do you feel that having high damaging powers that do 1000% damage straight up is necessary ? Or no ?

[swk3000]

That's the thing innit ? Moar damage or moar utility ? By the way, how does dropping Immolate reduce my cooldowns on all skills ?
 
In any case I have to ask: In your no crafting playthrough, do you feel that having high damaging powers that do 1000% damage straight up is necessary ? Or no ?

One of the fire tree upgrades reduces cooldowns for all spells when you cast a spell. With the Immolate upgrade, you can cast the spell multiple times in a row without waiting for a cooldowns, so it helps to make other abilities available faster. Not sure how useful it would be on a non-Rift Mage, as they don't have the mana Regen that Rift Mages do, but for getting abilities off of cooldowns fast, a Rift Mage has a new toy.

[draken-heart]

Bigdawg, how do you see builds for the winter line now being?

[Bayonet Hipshot]

One of the fire tree upgrades reduces cooldowns for all spells when you cast a spell. With the Immolate upgrade, you can cast the spell multiple times in a row without waiting for a cooldowns, so it helps to make other abilities available faster. Not sure how useful it would be on a non-Rift Mage, as they don't have the mana Regen that Rift Mages do, but for getting abilities off of cooldowns fast, a Rift Mage has a new toy.

 

I forgot about good ole Clean Burn !

[HelenCarnate]

Toxic Butt

• Contact Poison:  Cooldown reduction 5 sec, 25% weapon damage per sec for 8 seconds
• Lost in the Mist:  gain a stack of elusive while in my butt making it harder for your enemies to find you

 

I a bit hesitant to use a power that requires me to be in my butt to be effective.  Seems.....painful.

[PapaCharlie9]

Well, I'm going to try a few things with my level capped PT. Rift Mage with some Immolate and PotA variations. Tempest Archer with Flask of Fire and six other skills. DW Assassin with Clinging Shadows and Shadow Strike. Will report back if anything interesting turns up.

[PapaCharlie9]

Immolate/Consuming Fire with Level 27 Rift Mage (full tree) results. All against a single target.

 

TL;DR - you can do 3 Immolates in a row on a single target from a cold start, 4 with lyrium potion. Then you run out of mana.

 

* Auto-attack baseline: With a base damage 83 staff, did about 450-600 damage in 2 seconds (due to rune and crit/crit buffs on the staff)

 

* No help Immolate: 3 spells (easily in less than 2 seconds). Mana is the limiting factor.

 

"No help" means no lyrium, mana regen or cooldown help beyond the spell itself.

 

* Lyrium (fully upgraded): 4 spells. Mana is limiting factor.

 

* Barrier + Rejuv Barrier: 3 spells.

 

However, if I auto-attack between spells for 2 seconds and let buffed regen catch me back up, I can sometimes squeeze in one extra Immolate before the duration runs out.

 

* Lyrium + Barrier + Rejuv Barrier: 4 spells.

 

* Barrier + Rejuv Barrier + Armor with -10% mana/stamina cost buff: 3 spells

 

* Lyrium + Barrier + Rejuv Barrier + Armor with -10% mana/stamina cost buff: 4 spells.

 

But with just a few auto-attacks, can squeeze a fifth one in before 8 second duration expires.

 

* Lyrium + Barrier + Rejuv Barrier + Armor -10% mana cost + Superb Cooldown Amulet: 4 spells 

 

But with just one auto-attack, can squeeze a fifth one in -- or maybe it was a new cycle, Immolate came right back up, but could be due to cooldown amulet.

 

I also tried interleaving the Veilstrike/Wounded Veil spell in to get Immolate back up quicker after the duration expired, and that works, but still limited by mana regen.

 

So, the 8 second duration is really only a limit on doing auto-attacks in between to let mana regen catch up. Otherwise mana is the limiting factor.

 

For comparison, with the last setup (max buffs), I did Stonefist/Shatterstone about once every 8 seconds for about 10% more damage. With Burning from Immolate, it's kind of a wash in terms of total damage output.

[PapaCharlie9]

Tempest Archer Level 26 using Flask of Fire/Flaming Chain and these skills:

 

1) Poison Weapons

2) Explosive Arrow

3) Full Draw

4) Leaping Shot

5) Long Shot

6) Shadow Strike/Long Shadows

 

It worked great! FoF reset to full duration after each skill was used, even Full Draw. I took Eagle Eye with Long Shot and after doing Leaping Shot, you can get to the range where the full 900% is applied.

 

Shadow Strike requires fairly close range. After taking the Long Shot, Sera had to jog several steps before she was close enough to do Shadow Strike, FoF ran out before she got close enough. I'd guess less than 5 meters from target.

 

By doing Shadow Strike before Leaping Shot, I was able to squeeze in one extra Explosive Arrow, since the cooldown had expired by the time I got to the end of the sequence (Sera had on Superb Cooldown Amulet).

 

I tried inserting a Stealth before Shadow Strike and that worked fine too. I still was able to get an extra Explosive Arrow in at the end, so that's 8 skills on one FoF. Since the Explosive is a dupe it kills the FoF, of course.

[tongz]

The Leaping Shot stealth upgrade (and I assume the Flank attack steath upgrade) is affected by Clinging Shadows. On my Artificer I'm able to do the Leaping Shot > Evade > Leaping Shot loop while staying in stealth the entire time.

[Exalus]

Some of these upgrades sound amazing and alone are enough to warrant new playthroughs.

 

 

Immolate

• Wildfire:  Fire damage bonus 100% weapon damage, burning 7% weapon damage per sec, cd reduced 4 sec
• Consuming Fire:  No more cooldown on Immolate, casting multiple times in succession costs extra mana (10 mana), duration 8 seconds

 

•  

Does this mean solas can cast immolate indefinitely? 

[ottffsse]

OK on vanilla nightmare these things can be godly. Toggling walk softly and in nm enemies have so much health when scaled to your level it is a challange if soloing.

Winters grasp 1000% seems to be buggy.

For battlefield control at least on mage I still prefer the new upgraded fire wall to the mine in my "regular" rotation. If you are however rift or ke firemine might be worth more.

Excited to try new spirit nark but so far with most difficulty turned on and ff while soloing cc and damage mitigation tactics are paramount.

The upgrades on the ice spells are cool...ice mines like freezes everything.

Blizzard is still blizzard so trash against these massive HP critters. If it did 300% damage it would be worth it but currently its just too slow and innefective as both damage and cc.

[zoffa]

Does anyone else feel like the damage from the 2nd upgrade of combat roll is a bit ridiculous? I think the scaling might be bugged (beyond 250% at the very least). Will have to do more testing later on a normal as I just did a quick play thru of some abilities on a cheat char (duped money+normal difficulty lol). Nice input by everyone btw!

[zeypher]

Does anyone else feel like the damage from the 2nd upgrade of combat roll is a bit ridiculous? I think the scaling might be bugged (beyond 250% at the very least). Will have to do more testing later on a normal as I just did a quick play thru of some abilities on a cheat char (duped money+normal difficulty lol). Nice input by everyone btw!

Yea i noticed it as well, combat roll hits like a truck. I dont mind, as i find it fits a reaver well, a reaver who is a full on brawler.

[Rynas]

Immolate/Consuming Fire with Level 27 Rift Mage (full tree) results. All against a single target.

 

* Auto-attack baseline: With a base damage 83 staff, did about 450-600 damage in 2 seconds (due to rune and crit/crit buffs on the staff)

 

* No help Immolate: 3 spells (easily in less than 2 seconds). Mana is the limiting factor.

 

"No help" means no lyrium, mana regen or cooldown help beyond the spell itself.

 

* Lyrium (fully upgraded): 4 spells. Mana is limiting factor.

 

* Barrier + Rejuv Barrier: 3 spells.

 

However, if I auto-attack between spells for 2 seconds and let buffed regen catch me back up, I can sometimes squeeze in one extra Immolate before the duration runs out.

 

* Lyrium + Barrier + Rejuv Barrier: 4 spells.

 

* Barrier + Rejuv Barrier + Armor with -10% mana/stamina cost buff: 3 spells

 

* Lyrium + Barrier + Rejuv Barrier + Armor with -10% mana/stamina cost buff: 4 spells.

 

But with just a few auto-attacks, can squeeze a fifth one in before 8 second duration expires.

 

* Lyrium + Barrier + Rejuv Barrier + Armor -10% mana cost + Superb Cooldown Amulet: 4 spells 

 

But with just one auto-attack, can squeeze a fifth one in -- or maybe it was a new cycle, Immolate came right back up, but could be due to cooldown amulet.

 

I also tried interleaving the Veilstrike/Wounded Veil spell in to get Immolate back up quicker after the duration expired, and that works, but still limited by mana regen.

 

So, the 8 second duration is really only a limit on doing auto-attacks in between to let mana regen catch up. Otherwise mana is the limiting factor.

 

For comparison, with the last setup (max buffs), I did Stonefist/Shatterstone about once every 8 seconds for about 10% more damage. With Burning from Immolate, it's kind of a wash in terms of total damage output.

 

Have you tried the new Sigil of the Bear (+100% mana, -50% mana regen) with Rejuvenating Barrier?

[PapaCharlie9]

Have you tried the new Sigil of the Bear (+100% mana, -50% mana regen) with Rejuvenating Barrier?

No, don't have any sigils yet. That might help when first initiating combat, but the debuff on regen is going to hurt in the long run. Even with Rejuv you are a net -15% in regen.

[PapaCharlie9]

Some of these upgrades sound amazing and alone are enough to warrant new playthroughs.

 

•  

Does this mean solas can cast immolate indefinitely? 

No, see test here:

http://forum.bioware...4#entry19671742

 

TL;DR, you can do up to 3 in a row on one target from a cold start, 4 in a row if you take lyrium potion. You run out of mana after that.

[Rynas]

No, don't have any sigils yet. That might help when first initiating combat, but the debuff on regen is going to hurt in the long run. Even with Rejuv you are a net -15% in regen.

 

Well, regen is percentage-based, so, if you have 100 mana, you regen 6 mana per tick (mpt), and if you had 200 mana and no debuff, you would regen 12 mpt.  With the debuff, you regen 6 mpt, so your mana regen is normal.  It just takes longer to go from 0 to full.

 

But based on my testing, the debuff is "additive," so with rejuv barrier, your regen is 85%, instead of 135/2 = 67.5%.

 

If you regen 6 mpt at 50%, then you regen about 10 mpt at 85%.  Without the sigil, you would regen about 8 mpt with rejuv barrier.  Basically, the sigil doubles any regen effects.  At least, that's what my testing seems to indicate.

 

But you should check it out and see what happens

[PapaCharlie9]

Well, regen is percentage-based, so, if you have 100 mana, you regen 6 mana per tick (mpt), and if you had 200 mana and no debuff, you would regen 12 mpt.  With the debuff, you regen 6 mpt, so your mana regen is normal.  It just takes longer to go from 0 to full.
 
But based on my testing, the debuff is "additive," so with rejuv barrier, your regen is 85%, instead of 135/2 = 67.5%.
 
If you regen 6 mpt at 50%, then you regen about 10 mpt at 85%.  Without the sigil, you would regen about 8 mpt with rejuv barrier.  Basically, the sigil doubles any regen effects.  At least, that's what my testing seems to indicate.
 
But you should check it out and see what happens

Interesting, I didn't know that regen was a percentage of max, I thought it was constant.

But, Rejuv is only effective when Barrier is active, and since duration on Barrier was nerfed, it's not up for very long, even less time if you are taking damage. Recasting uses mana.

[Bigdawg13]

Bigdawg, how do you see builds for the winter line now being?

 

I don't know if the changes they made to Frost will make an impact on player builds other than the upgrade to Winter's Grasp. 

 

Winter's Grasp sees a really valuable upgrade.  1000% damage is nothing to sneeze at and getting a target chilled is really easy. 

 

Fade step mana regen..bleh.  I don't care for it except maybe early game.  But there are so many ways to ramp up your regen.  RM weakness, KE close-range, Necro killing things, barrier regen, winter stillness., and now fade step upgrade. 

 

Ice mine will always be a support skill, IMHO.  So if you like playing support that's great.  It's cheap and makes things easier as a warrior or rogue.  I just don't see it's value other than on trash.

 

Blizzard still doesn't do enough damage.  Sure a non-RM can now use it, but for what?  75% weapon damage over 10 seconds???  That's pathetic for a deep talent.  Consider the dot is comparable to immolate's dot, but immolate has 300% weapon damage on top of it and is cheaper.  I just ...don't get it.

 

Wall of Ice is great for enclosed areas, like inside any dungeon or castle.  But a lot of the game is outside.  Archers just run around it.  It just buys you time, something fade step is better at anyways.  I think the upgrade for enclosing a target could be better.  Small targets it just traps them.  Big targets, it should injure them or freeze their feet in place.  I dunno.  Maybe I should use this on a dragon.  If it created an epic-tall HUGE ring of ice around a dragon, I may take it just for the screenshot giggles.  But that's all it really is.  Ice mine is better.  It's too bad you can't enclose a group.  If you could drag the ring around a couple archers, that'd be better.  I should give it a shot.  Maybe the upgrade would let me trap 2+ archers at a time.

 

All-in-all, a rather bland upgrade to Winter tree outside of Winter's grasp.  I love the winter's grasp change though.  it is sublime.

[Bigdawg13]

Tempest Archer Level 26 using Flask of Fire/Flaming Chain and these skills:

 

1) Poison Weapons

2) Explosive Arrow

3) Full Draw

4) Leaping Shot

5) Long Shot

6) Shadow Strike/Long Shadows

 

It worked great! FoF reset to full duration after each skill was used, even Full Draw. I took Eagle Eye with Long Shot and after doing Leaping Shot, you can get to the range where the full 900% is applied.

 

Shadow Strike requires fairly close range. After taking the Long Shot, Sera had to jog several steps before she was close enough to do Shadow Strike, FoF ran out before she got close enough. I'd guess less than 5 meters from target.

 

By doing Shadow Strike before Leaping Shot, I was able to squeeze in one extra Explosive Arrow, since the cooldown had expired by the time I got to the end of the sequence (Sera had on Superb Cooldown Amulet).

 

I tried inserting a Stealth before Shadow Strike and that worked fine too. I still was able to get an extra Explosive Arrow in at the end, so that's 8 skills on one FoF. Since the Explosive is a dupe it kills the FoF, of course.

 

This is cool.  One of my complaints about tempest archer was that it was all to easy to end up spamming a single ability.  Don't get me wrong, spamming leaping shot with your back up against a wall is really awesome damage.  But it can get really boring fast.  Now you can use a rotation, and optimizing that rotation against different opponents in different configurations sounds like a lot of fun.

 

On top of that consider that different targets might allow you to change toggles on skills.  Couple that with how the rotation works and you have a complicated optimization problem.  LOVE IT!