234 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Lots of damage.  I see big juicy numbers from it.  Without my WG was hitting for 400 and with it, 2k.  Loved it.  

 

Downside, the other upgrade actually has a visual change to the spell fx which is really cool.  The other downside for a KE in particular is how it'll interact with your blade counter.  The AoE upgrade should give you more of a boost since it will hit multiple targets.

 

That's the beauty of the toggles.

 

Winter's Chill spreads the damage of Winter's Grasp around.

 

Winters Ruin concentrates the damage of Winter's Grasp.

 

Damage wise, Winter's Ruin = 3.3 x Winter's Chill. So from a purely numerical perspective, you need for than 3 enemies around for Winter's Chill to rival Winter's Ruin damage.

[Bigdawg13]

That's the beauty of the toggles.

Winter's Chill spreads the damage of Winter's Grasp around.

Winters Ruin concentrates the damage of Winter's Grasp.

Damage wise, Winter's Ruin = 3.3 x Winter's Chill. So from a purely numerical perspective, you need for than 3 enemies around for Winter's Chill to rival Winter's Ruin damage.

True but KE blade charges slower

[PapaCharlie9]

Typo in OP:
 
Flank Attack

• Skirmisher:  move to stealth after second hit
  Possible Bug (1.10):  Conflicting interaction with Stealth Lasting Clinging Shadows Upgrade (lose stealth after 3 sec)
• Bleeding Flanks:  Enemies bleed for 10 seconds, effect stacks

Conflict appears to apply to Leaping Shot/Shot from the Shadows as well.

[Kaylon]

In an earlier post, I described some testing I did with Clinging Shadows. Bottom line, it bugs out Leaping Shot's new upgrade and regular Flank Attack. Instead of going to full duration stealth after those skills complete, you only get the additional 3 secs of Clinging Shadows.

 

But don't take my word for it, test it yourself.. Having some additional verification would be helpful.

The way Clinging Shadows works is it keeps you stealthed for 3 more seconds after you start attacking. Now there are two things to know about stealth:

1. Stealth doesn't overwrite itself - that means you have to wait the end of the 3s before trying to hide again.

2. When you're using the Stealth ability the cooldown starts only when you're out of stealth - that means you can't reduce its cooldown during these 3s. However if you're stealthed using Leaping Shot/Flank Attack the cooldown of the Stealth ability will be reduced (by your attacks) or refreshed (by I Was Never Here) like it should.

Clinging Shadows works especially well vs bosses because I Was Never Here can't help you, however you have to use Leaping Shot/Flank Attack when you're out of stealth. Also you should use your multi hiting abilities (Hidden/Throwing/Spinning Blades) after Leaping Shot/Flank Attack in order to reduce the cooldown of Stealth and be able to hide again.

More tests about the timings of different attacks are required but vs bosses it should be something like that:

Archers - Mark of the Rift, Mark of Death, Shadow Strike, Leaping Shot, Hidden Blades, Throwing Blades, Long Shot, Stealth, Mark of Death

Dual Daggers - Mark of the Rift, Mark of Death, Shadow Strike, Flank Attack, Hidden Blades, Throwing Blades, Spinning Blades, Stealth, Mark of Death

VS regulars enemies you can replace Mark of the Rift/Death with Full Draw/Explosive Shot or Twin Fangs/Deathblow to have more attacks to cycle through

[PapaCharlie9]

The way Clinging Shadows works is it keeps you stealthed for 3 more seconds after you start attacking. Now there are two things to know about stealth:

1. Stealth doesn't overwrite itself - that means you have to wait the end of the 3s before trying to hide again.

2. When you're using the Stealth ability the cooldown starts only when you're out of stealth - that means you can't reduce its cooldown during these 3s. However if you're stealthed using Leaping Shot/Flank Attack the cooldown of the Stealth ability will be reduced (by your attacks) or refreshed (by I Was Never Here) like it should.

Clinging Shadows works especially well vs bosses because I Was Never Here can't help you, however you have to use Leaping Shot/Flank Attack when you're out of stealth. Also you should use your multi hiting abilities (Hidden/Throwing/Spinning Blades) after Leaping Shot/Flank Attack in order to reduce the cooldown of Stealth and be able to hide again.

More tests about the timings of different attacks are required but vs bosses it should be something like that:

Archers - Mark of the Rift, Mark of Death, Shadow Strike, Leaping Shot, Hidden Blades, Throwing Blades, Long Shot, Stealth, Mark of Death

Dual Daggers - Mark of the Rift, Mark of Death, Shadow Strike, Flank Attack, Hidden Blades, Throwing Blades, Spinning Blades, Stealth, Mark of Death

VS regulars enemies you can replace Mark of the Rift/Death with Full Draw/Explosive Shot or Twin Fangs/Deathblow to have more attacks to cycle through

Okay, I guess I don't disagree with any of that, but it all seems a bit beside the point. The point being, without Clinging Shadows, Flank Attack/Skirmisher puts you into a full duration of 30 seconds of Stealth after attacking, whereas with Clinging Shadows, you only get 3 seconds of Stealth after doing an attack with Flank Attack/Skirmisher.

 

The issue isn't cooldown. The issue is that instead of 30 seconds of stealth, you only get 3.

 

Same applies to Leaping Shot/Shot from the Shadows, as far as my own testing goes. 30 seconds without Clinging Shadows, 3 seconds with.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I was playing around with Blizzard and all I have to say is this:- Do not take the Winter Winds upgrade if you choose to use Blizzard. Stick with Ice Storm upgrade for Blizzard. Here's why...

 

Blizzard with Winter Winds - 75% weapon damage per second, 10 seconds duration, 8 meters area of effect, 8 seconds chill, 24 seconds cooldown, 40 mana cost.

 

Blizzard with Ice Storm - 150% weapon damage per second, 8 meters area of effect, 8 seconds chill, 4 seconds freeze, 24 seconds cooldown, 5 mana per second cost.

 

This means that Blizzard with Winter Winds does a maximum of 750% weapon damage for 10 seconds with a mana cost of 40.

 

For 40 mana, Blizzard with Ice Storm will do 1200% weapon damage for 8 seconds.

 

For 10 seconds, Blizzard with Ice Storm will do 1500% weapon damage with a mana cost of 50.

 

To achieve 750% weapon damage, Blizzard with Ice Storm only needs to last for 5 seconds and cost a mere 25 mana.

 

The reality is that Blizzard with Ice Storm is still the way to go if you wish to use Blizzard. In my opinion, Winter Winds is the Blizzard upgrade for AI because it makes Blizzard into a weaker fire & forget spell.

[Kaylon]

Okay, I guess I don't disagree with any of that, but it all seems a bit beside the point. The point being, without Clinging Shadows, Flank Attack/Skirmisher puts you into a full duration of 30 seconds of Stealth after attacking, whereas with Clinging Shadows, you only get 3 seconds of Stealth after doing an attack with Flank Attack/Skirmisher.

 

The issue isn't cooldown. The issue is that instead of 30 seconds of stealth, you only get 3.

 

Same applies to Leaping Shot/Shot from the Shadows, as far as my own testing goes. 30 seconds without Clinging Shadows, 3 seconds with.

In my game, stealth from Leaping Shot/Flank Attack, with or without Clinging Shadows, have no timer at all (are lasting forever). However I have another bug - Clinging Shadows doesn't work with regulars shots from my archer - a normal shot will unstealth him instantly, but he can't hide again for 3s...

[Underdog2204]

I'm all for the new additions but I can't help but feel a little sad that the new toggles for Mages seem to be outdone buy the intial versions.

 

I can see changing for specific fights which will help on new trials runs, but I cannot really see any switchup to mage builds to incorperate these new toggles to be used the majority of the time... Unless you are playing a KE in which I can see things like Flaming Array being decent.

 

Maybe I'm just looking at it wrong and they are just there to switch up depending on the fight, but it is definitely my initial impression.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I'm all for the new additions but I can't help but feel a little sad that the new toggles for Mages seem to be outdone buy the intial versions.

 

I can see changing for specific fights which will help on new trials runs, but I cannot really see any switchup to mage builds to incorperate these new toggles to be used the majority of the time... Unless you are playing a KE in which I can see things like Flaming Array being decent.

 

Maybe I'm just looking at it wrong and they are just there to switch up depending on the fight, but it is definitely my initial impression.

 

I agree that some of the toggle for mage spells are rubbish but there are more than enough good toggle options to make up for it.

 

The rubbish toggle options for mage spells are these:- Energy Barrage, Blizzard, Static Cage and Lightning Bolt. The rest though are decent or excellent.

 

The excellent toggle options for mage spells are these:- Immolate, Fire Mine, Fade Step, Winter's Grasp, Barrier, Veilstrike, Pull of the Abyss and Spirit Mark.

[Underdog2204]

I agree that some of the toggle for mage spells are rubbish but there are more than enough good toggle options to make up for it.

 

The rubbish toggle options for mage spells are these:- Energy Barrage, Blizzard, Static Cage and Lightning Bolt. The rest though are decent or excellent.

 

The excellent toggle options for mage spells are these:- Immolate, Fire Mine, Fade Step, Winter's Grasp, Barrier, Veilstrike, Pull of the Abyss and Spirit Mark.

 

See Fire Mine seems very dependant on if you picked KE or not imo, a Necro or RM will not be close enough most of the time to make use of it. Fade step is the same as they will not be close enough to get the most out of it, mind you it could be decent on the mana hungry necro though.

 

Now Pull of the Abyss is decent but it falls short of the weakness debuff on anything that is not immune to it, RM needs this status effect as the entire spec is designed to exploit it (which it why it sucked against dragons). So outside of specific bosses it would not be something to build around. As for Veilstrike whilst it is better than before I still cannot justify using a slot for it.

 

Immolate and Winters Grasp are good though, probably the only two I actually think is on par with it's previous version depending on what you want out of it.

 

Obviously this is my opinion, and could be subject to change as I experiment more.

[Bigdawg13]

See Fire Mine seems very dependant on if you picked KE or not imo, a Necro or RM will not be close enough most of the time to make use of it. Fade step is the same as they will not be close enough to get the most out of it, mind you it could be decent on the mana hungry necro though.

Now Pull of the Abyss is decent but it falls short of the weakness debuff on anything that is not immune to it, RM needs this status effect as the entire spec is designed to exploit it (which it why it sucked against dragons). So outside of specific bosses it would not be something to build around. As for Veilstrike whilst it is better than before I still cannot justify using a slot for it.

Immolate and Winters Grasp are good though, probably the only two I actually think is on par with it's previous version depending on what you want out of it.

Obviously this is my opinion, and could be subject to change as I experiment more.

Minor correction: very few enemies are immune to weakness (dragons are not immune). Giants come to mind as one of the few powerful creatures immune to weakness.

[PapaCharlie9]

See Fire Mine seems very dependant on if you picked KE or not imo, a Necro or RM will not be close enough most of the time to make use of it as an offensive spell.

I fixed it for you.

 

As a defensive spell, it's just fine. So if you know you will be in a battle where your mage character tends to get overrun or one-shotted by assassins, you can toggle over to Fire Array and have some protection. And it won't cost you an extra active slot.

 

WRT the original comment, yeah, for all three classes most of the changes aren't that useful, but there are some bright spots here and there. The upgrade to Necro's Walking Bomb is worth the change all by itself, unless you never play Dorian or Necro.  The Tempest Flask of Fire alternative isn't that big a deal with respect to damage or combat value, but it adds some fun to playing Archer. Figuring out which sequence gets the best result in a particular situation makes you think.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

See Fire Mine seems very dependant on if you picked KE or not imo, a Necro or RM will not be close enough most of the time to make use of it. Fade step is the same as they will not be close enough to get the most out of it, mind you it could be decent on the mana hungry necro though.

 

Now Pull of the Abyss is decent but it falls short of the weakness debuff on anything that is not immune to it, RM needs this status effect as the entire spec is designed to exploit it (which it why it sucked against dragons). So outside of specific bosses it would not be something to build around. As for Veilstrike whilst it is better than before I still cannot justify using a slot for it.

 

Immolate and Winters Grasp are good though, probably the only two I actually think is on par with it's previous version depending on what you want out of it.

 

Obviously this is my opinion, and could be subject to change as I experiment more.

 

This is why with the introduction of toggles, you have to use all 3 of Rift Mage's spells.

 

I use Veilstrike as a cooldown reducer or as a weakness inducer.

 

I use Stonefist as a guard damager or a weakness inducer.

 

I use Pull of the Abyss strictly as an area of affect damage dealer.

 

So when there are no enemies with guard, I use Veilstrike for spell cooldown, Stonefist for weakness and Pull of the Abyss for damage. When there are enemies with guard, I use Veilstrike for weakness, Stonefist for guard and Pull of the Abyss for damage.

 

As for Fire Mine, you can use it offensively when you combine with Pull of the Abyss or Veilstrike. Cast either one of those and immediately cast Fire Mine. By the time enemies wake up from being knocked down or get out of the abyss, Fire Mine will have gone off.

[TheInvoker]

The problem is that the weakness status must be bugged.

Using Stonefist and then an offensive spell won't give you mana back (it should...after stonefist the enemy is weakened)

But then i tried winter's grasp + stonefist (combo ok) and i got mana back...but why???

again pull of the abyss + stonefist no mana back

pull of the abyss + fire mine/immolate = mana back

 

it's just too random

 

For mages another toggle i really like is the ring of frost (from the wall). The wall could be great in small areas but most of the games is played outside in large battlegrounds. The wall does nothing there. The ring works on every enemy (it's not a status someone can be immune to) and isolate an enemy from the fight. Use it on the strongest enemy. Kill the others and then you have all group against him

 

New upgrade for mines is perfect for defending poisition attacking from distance

[Cydh]

For mages another toggle i really like is the ring of frost (from the wall). The wall could be great in small areas but most of the games is played outside in large battlegrounds. The wall does nothing there.

 

 

I can't really say I'm experienced playing as a mage, but as a warrior player, that's not really the case. Pretty much the entire game has stuff lying about, carts, trees, wallies and ravines that you can turn into chokepoints with a wall of ice. Pathing is important, elevation is important. The only fights where you mostly can't (ab)use walling, line of sight and chokepoint tactics are dragons.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong with the upgrade, though, since I never tried to use it.

[rayx]

Just clearing up a misconception, Coming Through recovers from Knockback, but not from Stagger/Knockdown, the same as normal Combat Roll. It doesn't work on Terror Demons for instance (still oneshots them if you're Golden Nugging your way around the Hinterlands but that's besides the point), whereas Payback Strike and Roll With It will both work. Also, Coming Through can be blocked by shield and elite sword users. It will then deal normal weapon damage and stagger your character.

 

Strange. In my game coming through recovers from knockdown. Giant rock throwing, bronto charging, terror demon jumping...all works.

 

Could other one share your experience?

[TheInvoker]

I can't really say I'm experienced playing as a mage, but as a warrior player, that's not really the case. Pretty much the entire game has stuff lying about, carts, trees, wallies and ravines that you can turn into chokepoints with a wall of ice. Pathing is important, elevation is important. The only fights where you mostly can't (ab)use walling, line of sight and chokepoint tactics are dragons.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong with the upgrade, though, since I never tried to use it.

Enemies can pass near the wall. it'r really rare that you can cut some enemies off thefight for its entire duration.

[Nathonaws]

The two array mine upgrades are really, really good.

[draken-heart]

I thought about it, and that fallback plan toggle sounds awesome, but op.

[PapaCharlie9]

The two array mine upgrades are really, really good.

+1. Now if we could only teleport like Spellbinders, we'd be all set.
 

I thought about it, and that fallback plan toggle sounds awesome, but op.

I'm experimenting with that now on Varric. It does seem to be pretty sick. Got plenty of stamina but my favorite skill is on cooldown? No problem!

[zeypher]

+1. Now if we could only teleport like Spellbinders, we'd be all set.
 
I'm experimenting with that now on Varric. It does seem to be pretty sick. Got plenty of stamina but my favorite skill is on cooldown? No problem!

Problem is varric with a decent party does not have cooldown issues.

[Bigdawg13]

Problem is varric with a decent party does not have cooldown issues.

True but that's only the last part of the game. Also not everyone builds for crit.

[PawsPause]

Anyone use crippling smash on shield bash with their ai companions? If so how effective is it on survivabilty? Wondering if I should trade charging bull for shield bash for warriors

[zeypher]

Charging bull on AI is still not good.

[Bigdawg13]

Charging bull on AI is still not good.

 

How so?  I don't have problems with it, but I don't run with FF enabled either.