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Solas must die (Trepasser Spoilers)


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#251
TK514

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Well, redemption seems are more viable path then death. People can gloat all they want here, but the truth is that Solas is far stronger and more resourceful then all the enemies we faced combined. And even if we managed to kill him, what stops him from pulling a Mythal and finding a host to yet again try his plan of apocalypse? While convincing him to stop would be the end. He would give up his plan and Thedas would be saved forever. What does personal feelings matter when we can get a solution that is far more final?

 

Unless there's a way to completely depower or imprison him, convincing him not to destroy to world today is not the end.  Nothing prevents him from having another pity party in the future and deciding to destroy the world then, only without someone around to give him his meds and talk him out of it.

 

He's hardly the most powerful or the most resourceful villain we've ever met.  He couldn't even figure out a way to charge his magic without enlisting the aid of someone else, nor was he smart enough to realize that said person wasn't just going to roll over and die on request.  Nor was he smart enough or wise enough to interfere with said person creating an army of mages, spies, and saboteurs before it all got out of hand.

 

He's just another bad guy like the Archdemon or Corypheus, and we'll use just another plot device to take him out.


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#252
Jaison1986

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"He's too powerful" is no excuse, or there would be no point in making a game about it. :P

 

While I'm a sucker for redemption, I'd absolutely hate to be bullied into it as the "obvious" One True Way. Not all choices are created equal (see: Iron Bull), but IMO the Inquisitor's intended role in Solas' redemption can only work if the offer to help is sincere, and you simply can't force that on the players -- especially when Solas' attitudes and intended crimes are so completely beyond the pale. Personal feelings absolutely do matter, or you won't have a satisfying story. The writers can only try to encourage the desire to "save him from himself", and that has to be done with care so it does not become heavy-handed bullying or flat-out railroading.

 

There's also the problem that a story in which an intended victim has to put personal feelings aside to placate and save the mass-murdering bigot who doesn't even see them as a person, or else their world will go to hell, would send a really horrendous message. That would be damn close to being straight out of an abuser's handbook.

 

Again: I would in fact like to redeem this guy because the writers did succeed in making the Solas we thought we knew an interesting, well-written if supremely flawed character, and even now some of that impression endures. I wouldn't "gloat" over his death, I don't hate him. I'm just really shocked and sad, and can't see any credible reason to view redemption as viable. They need to give me more to work with, and avoid any impression of force.

 

IDK. While yes, we need a sequel were we would have the power to do something, I really don't see how we can defeat Solas conventionally. Unless we are introduced to another "crucible" and that was an awful plot device. And like I said, even if we kill Solas, that might not be the end for him.

 

People aways despise what Solas is trying to do, but how are we different? Could you honestly say that if you were to wake up in the future and discover everything has been destroyed and the survivors live in utter ignorance, and then you were introduced an way to restore the world as it has been, the world you loved, you wouldn't take that chance, even if many were to die for that? Isn't what we do at future Redcliffe? Desperately try to restore the old world as we knew? No matter the cost? In the end, yes, I do want to stop Solas, but is not like I don't see were he is coming from.

 

And the gloating I talked about is not about killing Solas and feeling smug about it (though I'm sure some people here feel that way), but it's about people thinking that they can easily kill Solas despite what they saw him capable of doing. I think any confrontation with him would be more like this: 

 

Protagonist: Solas, you're dea...

 

Solas: *blinks*

 

Protagonist: *dies*


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#253
Solas

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Need Seekers. People with ability to nullify magic.

 

And.. a double agent.



#254
DuskWanderer

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It's amusing that people think they can beat someone that has the power to turn others into stone with an blink. I guess being Inquisitor really made people get over their heads. The likelihood is that you're the one ripped to shreds next time you meet Solas.

 

More than likely, Solas can only do that within the Crossroads. 



#255
diaspora2k5

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Sic the Warden on him. My Warden temporarily killed Mythal :P


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#256
Reznore57

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IDK. While yes, we need a sequel were we would have the power to do something, I really don't see how we can defeat Solas conventionally. Unless we are introduced to another "crucible" and that was an awful plot device. And like I said, even if we kill Solas, that might not be the end for him.

 

People aways despise what Solas is trying to do, but how are we different? Could you honestly say that if you were to wake up in the future and discover everything has been destroyed and the survivors live in utter ignorance, and then you were introduced an way to restore the world as it has been, the world you loved, you wouldn't take that chance, even if many were to die for that? Isn't what we do at future Redcliffe? Desperately try to restore the old world as we knew? No matter the cost? In the end, yes, I do want to stop Solas, but is not like I don't see were he is coming from.

 

And the gloating I talked about is not about killing Solas and feeling smug about it (though I'm sure some people here feel that way), but it's about people thinking that they can easily kill Solas despite what they saw him capable of doing. I think any confrontation with him would be more like this: 

 

Protagonist: Solas, you're dea...

 

Solas: *blinks*

 

Protagonist: *dies*

 

No.

I'm sorry but Solas was making new friends and could have build a new life.Hell the current elves needs him.

He says it himself "empire falls " , people die ...that's just the way of life.

It's been a thousand years , he was asleep .

 

He acts like a toddler with a god complex , he's just able to wax poetry about it and tug at people's heartstring.

He wanted to change things and he suceeded , people are now free from the Creators .

Only Tevinter openly practise slavery now , it's forbidden in the South.

Is it perfect , hardly.

You have to have a huge ego to think your pain and guilt is more important than the whole world.

Hell some ancient elves are even still alive today ,he can't save those who died when he changed the world , it's done.

He's not saving some "people" he wants to save his idea of what the elves and the world should be.

 

As for killing him , I don't think we'll ever going to have to do this.

He's going to get himself killed for sure .His pride is his downfall , he thought things would be dandy with Corypheus ...now he thinks he can outplay the other Creators..

Just sit and watch him sacrifice himself to correct his mistakes.

I'm just waiting to see horror creep up on him when he will figure out he's not better than the peers he hated.

/popcorn.


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#257
Bayonet Hipshot

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The best ways of dealing with Solas

 

1) Talking him out his plans.

 

2) Working with him to minimize the destruction that will happen from removing the Veil.

 

3) Using Seeker abilities to block him from using his magic and imprison him in a place that is covered in runes & glyphs that do something similar.

 

4) Find some method to sap him off his powers and make him mortal.

 

Solas is as powerful, if not more powerful than the Evanuris. If the Evanuris cannot die so easily, I don't think he can as well.

 

I wished Bioware would have allowed our protagonist to point out the fact that we will have to deal with the Blight seeping out of Black City, the Titans waking up again, Great Dragons regaining sentience once more, everyone having magic and creatures such as the Nightmare in Adamant...to point all these out to Solas in the epilogue and explain to him that none of his plans will be good enough or foolproof enough to deal with all this.


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#258
Jaison1986

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No.

I'm sorry but Solas was making new friends and could have build a new life.Hell the current elves needs him.

He says it himself "empire falls " , people die ...that's just the way of life.

It's been a thousand years , he was asleep .

 

He acts like a toddler with a god complex , he's just able to wax poetry about it and tug at people's heartstring.

He wanted to change things and he suceeded , people are now free from the Creators .

Only Tevinter openly practise slavery now , it's forbidden in the South.

Is it perfect , hardly.

You have to have a huge ego to think your pain and guilt is more important than the whole world.

Hell some ancient elves are even still alive today ,he can't save those who died when he changed the world , it's done.

He's not saving some "people" he wants to save his idea of what the elves and the world should be.

 

As for killing him , I don't think we'll ever going to have to do this.

He's going to get himself killed for sure .His pride is his downfall , he thought things would be dandy with Corypheus ...now he thinks he can outplay the other Creators..

Just sit and watch him sacrifice himself to correct his mistakes.

I'm just waiting to see horror creep up on him when he will figure out he's not better than the peers he hated.

/popcorn.

 

But it's not about just the people or empires however. The very world of Thedas lives in an unnatural state. This is not how things should be. To Solas is more about restoring the natural order then restoring the ancient elves.

 

And you don't have a huge ego to think you know better then a guy that understands the world much more then you do? You may criticize Solas, but what is *your* qualification on deciding on how the world should or shouldn't be?

 

Pray you don't feel the horror of realizing you're not too different from Solas. People aways think they are the exception. They aways think they know better.


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#259
Reznore57

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But it's not about just the people or empires however. The very world of Thedas lives in an unnatural state. This is not how things should be. To Solas is more about restoring the natural order then restoring the ancient elves.

 

And you don't have a huge ego to think you know better then a guy that understands the world much more then you do? You may criticize Solas, but what is *your* qualification on deciding on how the world should or shouldn't be?

 

Pray you don't feel the horror of realizing you're not too different from Solas. People aways think they are the exception. They aways think they know better.

 

I know killing everyone to raise something who's long dead is wrong.

Everyone should have an equal shot at living their lives and choose their destinity.

The ancient elven did , and they brought doom upon themselves and fell.

Well too bad , it's sad , but life goes on.

 

It's not about the "natural" order (the natural order was the elven got so powerful their Gods were about to destroy the world) it's about one man who has the power to destroy everything and will do it just because he can.

Ancient elven history repeating itself , and people not able to learn the lesson.


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#260
wildannie

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...snip...

 

I wished Bioware would have allowed our protagonist to point out the fact that we will have to deal with the Blight seeping out of Black City, the Titans waking up again, Great Dragons regaining sentience once more, everyone having magic and creatures such as the Nightmare in Adamant...to point all these out to Solas in the epilogue and explain to him that none of his plans will be good enough or foolproof enough to deal with all this.

Yeah,  I've not gone through all dialogue options so don't know if it comes up at all, but it occurs to me that the blight might well have an important role in all this that we don't yet know.  

 

I do wonder how much Solas understands the blight, he's not been awake during one so he may be missing something crucial that would threaten his goal.

 

Solas' goal is very shocking, but as he is not of the same world so it is more complicated than if it was the plan of a character born and bred in modern Thedas.  He is in a situation where he has to make a choice between two worlds, and that he feels responsible to restore his own world is understandable.  Some of his dialogue is not confident on the fate of modern Thedas so it seems he doesn't really know what will happen.

 

I absolutely think that given what we know from Inquisition, Solas needs to be stopped, but I do want there to be a meaningful redemption option as well as the murderknife.   But I suspect there will be more to it and if Sandal's prophecy is true then the veil is coming down.  

I do wonder who the 'everyone' mentioned in his prophecy includes?  If it includes the modern peoples then it could suggest that they are being restored to their natural state (whatever that is).  The prophecy seems to herald something good and better so maybe we can find a way to restore the world in a peaceful way.



#261
wright1978

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I wish it was possible to use the inquisition to help destroy all opposition to Solas' plan.



#262
TK514

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I wish it was possible to use the inquisition to help destroy all opposition to Solas' plan.

 

What a terrible idea.

 

"I wish everyone in the Inquisition would agree to commit suicide."


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#263
Solas

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What a terrible idea.

 

"I wish everyone in the Inquisition would agree to commit suicide."

LOL slaps desk



#264
wright1978

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What a terrible idea.

 

"I wish everyone in the Inquisition would agree to commit suicide."

 

Their sacrifice will be honored in the coming empire.


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#265
Andromelek

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Their sacrifice will be honored in the coming empire.


Which incoming empire? All that remains of ancient elves is a band of survivors that protect a temple and the Evanuirs, even if Solas succeeds and it's able to defeat all the Evanuirs (which I doubt) things won't be as they used to be, that's the difference between Solas and the Witches of the Wilds, he is ruthless and he doesn't give a chance even to the things worthy of be preserved that are not ancient elves, while Witches try to pull the things on a way that keeps the many living on peace.

#266
Wissenschaft 2.0

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Their sacrifice will be honored in the coming empire.

 

No they wouldn't. Solas and his "true" Elves would forget them. They view mortals as little better than animals and worthy of as much notice as we notice cattle.


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#267
Boost32

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Patrick Weeks said the Solas' plot will be resolver in the next game, if they made the next game.

That's good, the lunatic will not escape justice in the next game!

#268
wright1978

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Patrick Weeks said the Solas' plot will be resolver in the next game, if they made the next game.

That's good, the lunatic will not escape justice in the next game!

 

I was hoping it would be held off a bit, maybe for the final game in the series, unless the next game is the final game in the series.



#269
Wissenschaft 2.0

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I was hoping it would be held off a bit, maybe for the final game in the series, unless the next game is the final game in the series.

 

LOL, what final game? Bioware designed Dragon Age to be an endless story. Got to milk that cow FOREVER!



#270
Shienis

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LOL, what final game? Bioware designed Dragon Age to be an endless story. Got to milk that cow FOREVER!

 

"Dragon Age" lasts only for 100 years and we're already at year 44. That gives us/them "only" 56 years of game-time, which is hardly forever. Unless...

Spoiler

 

Although I would love the infinite supply of stories, I kind of hope that the series will not extend over the "Dragon Age"...



#271
Korva

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I'd prefer an end to it in the non-too-distant future over it being milked to death, honestly. The longer they drag it out, the more games promise big heroes changing the world and then are rolled back to a one-size-fits-all-status quo, the more big events are foreshadowed but have no lasting impact, the more protagonists are quickly built into something big and then rendered irrelevant just as easily, the less interesting it all becomes. I'd rather see them end it in a truly setting-changing big bang around Solas' plans and the Inquisitor's personal quest to stop him (under player control, not as an NPC-tagalong cameo).


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#272
Brass_Buckles

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I know killing everyone to raise something who's long dead is wrong.

Everyone should have an equal shot at living their lives and choose their destinity.

The ancient elven did , and they brought doom upon themselves and fell.

Well too bad , it's sad , but life goes on.

 

It's not about the "natural" order (the natural order was the elven got so powerful their Gods were about to destroy the world) it's about one man who has the power to destroy everything and will do it just because he can.

Ancient elven history repeating itself , and people not able to learn the lesson.

 

 

Which incoming empire? All that remains of ancient elves is a band of survivors that protect a temple and the Evanuirs, even if Solas succeeds and it's able to defeat all the Evanuirs (which I doubt) things won't be as they used to be, that's the difference between Solas and the Witches of the Wilds, he is ruthless and he doesn't give a chance even to the things worthy of be preserved that are not ancient elves, while Witches try to pull the things on a way that keeps the many living on peace.

 

Just going to point out two things here:

 

  1. Solas has ancient elven followers not from the Temple of Mythal.  Felassan was one of them.  From the Trespasser epilogue, there were many more (and for all we know, ancient elves have been tripping around Thedas for years unnoticed.  Maybe they quickened when they woke?).  You also learn there were lots of elves trapped in the Crossroads when the Veil went up.  It's possible some of them survived.
  2. Solas is not necessarily just saving the ancient elves.  The entire world is awry by his standards.  Not just elves, but everyone, is missing a connection to the Fade that they possessed before the Veil.  Dwarves were once able to dream.  They could be again.

 

Also, I think that while Solas anticipates the worst, and is probably largely correct, not absolutely everyone will die.  Much like the last time, there will be survivors.

 

I think either redeeming him or killing him are valid options.  At first I was infuriated he ended the world once already.  Then I stopped, looked back, and realized, he had no idea what the consequences of his actions would be.  He was trying to save people.  Well, okay, and get vengeance, but still...

 

Most of what happened that Solas caused during Inquisition was accidental.  He did not favor the Breach.  That particular method of merging the Fade and the real world was too traumatic for spirits, and Solas felt that the rifts needed closing.  So we know that is not his intention.  We also know that he expected Corypheus to die unlocking the orb.  He had no way of knowing the Corypheus had mastered immortality.  His intentions were still terrible, not even arguing that.  But as others said, in Solas's shoes, you might think the world was such a horrible place that who wouldn't want to fix it?  He says the elves lost everything, even themselves.  This implies that there's something, some aspect, to elves pre-Veil that was fundamental to their existence and utterly missing in modern elves.  It's not just his pride; people really are broken compared to what they were.

 

But does that excuse his actions?  No.  People are still people, no matter how broken they are.  He is trying to convince himself that by giving them time to be happy he is not a monster.  But, this is also like a farmer giving beef cows a couple of years to graze in a herd before the slaughter.  It may be a kinder treatment, but that still doesn't make it in any way benevolent.

 

Solas is afraid he's going to become a monster.  I personally think he hasn't--yet.  When he actually starts on his goals, when he starts to kill thousands if not millions of people (intentionally this time) that's when he'll be a monster.  At the moment he is at a crossroads.  The atrocities he has committed have been the results of accidents or unintentional collateral damage.  He's still responsible for them, though he did a lot to make up for it by helping the Inquisition.  He cannot make up for destroying the ancient Elvhen empire.

 

So is it valid to kill Solas?  Definitely.  Is it valid to try to change his mind because he hasn't actually gone through with his plans yet?  Of course.  I like him and feel he can be redeemed, but I still kind of want to kill him for what he's done and what he's planning to do.  But he hasn't carried out his plans, yet.

 

Some people are saying, "Oh, Mythal would not have done this."  Okay, but... Note that she and Solas are at least partly one being now. Solas probably has part of her soul.  She has always been working toward a specific goal.  We know this.  Morrigan was part of the plan.  We also know that.  I actually think Flemeth, who proclaims that the entire world was betrayed, is more dangerous than Solas.  And that's why it isn't going to matter whether or not you kill or redeem him.

 

What I think could easily happen:  Kill Solas - > Morrigan becomes Mythal's host - > She then merges the Fade and the real world.

OR.

Redeem Solas - > Solas gives Mythal's soul to Morrigan OR Mythal's soul takes over Solas - > Mythal still merges the Fade and the Real World.

 

Mythal was bent on vengeance.  She wouldn't have allowed Solas to take her power if it meant she'd never achieve her own goals.  And also, it seemed to me to be heavily implied that her goals aligned with his.

 

The difference is that Solas actually feels bad about the plans and can be stopped.  He's not out for vengeance.  He just thinks the world has gone wrong and needs to fix it.  Do I feel sorry for him?  No.  I told some friends via chat that I don't feel sorry for him at all even though I think that maybe we're supposed to.  I feel very sorry on the other hand for an Inquisitor who befriended or romanced him, and now has their friend or lover telling them these horrible things as if their relationship had never mattered.  Moreover, I agree with those who perceived that Solas wants to be proven wrong.

 

On the other hand, if I'm right and Mythal's involved, I don't think she feels bad about "fixing" the world.


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#273
Reznore57

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I'm sorry but Solas is already a monster.

I'm not talking about what he did with the ancient elves , it seems he had no choice.

But first thing he did when waking up...he gave his orb to Cory , wanting the damn thing to blow up.

He gave a weapon of mass destruction to a madmen .

 

He also killed Felassan because his agents wanted to gave a chance to current people.

That's it.

Felassan didn't betray him , he didn't warn anyone , he didn't put Solas in danger...he just wanted people to live.

Paf dead.

 

The Qunari find out about him , and they attack willy nilly in despair.

The Qunari are trying to stop him from destroying the whole world and the guy has the gut to tell you "You should thank me for making you kill people who wanted to stop me "

I mean seriously...what?

What kind of troll logic is at work in his head , here?



#274
Brass_Buckles

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I'm sorry but Solas is already a monster.

I'm not talking about what he did with the ancient elves , it seems he had no choice.

But first thing he did when waking up...he gave his orb to Cory , wanting the damn thing to blow up.

He gave a weapon of mass destruction to a madmen .

 

He also killed Felassan because his agents wanted to gave a chance to current people.

That's it.

Felassan didn't betray him , he didn't warn anyone , he didn't put Solas in danger...he just wanted people to live.

Paf dead.

 

The Qunari find out about him , and they attack willy nilly in despair.

The Qunari are trying to stop him from destroying the whole world and the guy has the gut to tell you "You should thank me for making you kill people who wanted to stop me "

I mean seriously...what?

What kind of troll logic is at work in his head , here?

 

You're forgetting, Solas is pretty much just as broken as he thinks the rest of the world is.  If you're friends/lovers with him, he'll admit to murdering Felassan and explain that at the time, he couldn't see the modern people as people.  But now he does, and so he feels bad (and I'm sorry but Solas, I don't feel bad for your guilt at intending to kill absolutely everyone, dude).

 

He's done terrible things, but by the measure of "he killed Felassan," you'd certainly have to say everyone else in the Inquisition is a monster, too.  Leliana, for looking at killing people as the best answer.  Blackwall, for being a child murderer.  Cole, for killing mages back at the Circle.  Bull, for being a spy who is openly betraying you (unless you turn him away from the Qun).  Etc. Etc. Etc.  Not a single person in Inquisition is innocent of some major horror.

 

Not only that, but actually Felassan did, in fact, betray Solas:  He was meant to get access to the eluvians for Solas.  He could have gotten the password.  Instead he lied to protect Briala.  Does that merit Felassan's death?  Well, I don't think so.  Felassan had come to see the modern elves as people--something Solas had yet to do at the time.  It doesn't make his actions good (especially since I LIKED Felassan), but considering how much of a nightmare the modern world must have been to Solas, it's not hard to understand why he'd flip out at one of his followers helping one of those shadow-people instead of the REAL people (Solas's perception, not mine).  If you don't befriend him in-game, I don't think he ever changes that perception.

 

As for the qunari... They weren't just trying to stop Fen'harel.  They were trying to take over southern Thedas as well, because no matter how you run the Inquisition, they think you left chaos in your wake and that, they believe, should be fixed.  I don't personally think the Qun is a good thing at all, even if it has some positive aspects to it--and much of Thedas apparently agrees, or they'd all have converted to the Qun by now.  Also, their specific concern seems to be regarding their mages--who apparently would stand to become super powerful without the Veil, for whatever reason.  The qunari also have a bad habit of being terrified of anything they don't understand.  It's one of the reasons they heap abuse on their mages and call it right to do so.

 

My personal take?  If the Fade and real world could be merged without killing everyone, I'd actually be all for it.  But the whole "everybody's going to die" thing?  Nope, I can't support that.  Sandal's prophecy implies it's going to happen no matter how we oppose it, though.  And it sort of fits with what I think DA's overarching theme is.  In other fantasy, you see magic and wonderment dying out.  In Dragon Age, we may be seeing magic's triumphant return.  It makes me wonder if this is how we're finally going to see the official death of the Warden and Hawke.


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#275
Reznore57

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The Qunari always wanted to conquer , we knew it.

But they went all dragon breath because they figured out Fen Harel was involved with the Breach , and they assumed the Inquisition knew too and was working for him.

They were sacrificing their Saarebas to reinforce the veil, in despair.

 

If they had succeeded it would have been the second time , a great number of people would have died in explosion and the South would have been at war again.

It's the second time Solas caused this in 3 freaking years.

He tells you "Yes tis true I used people over and over again and got them killed , you're not the first one."

 

About the whole "not people"...from the guy who make you a speech how spirits are people comparing them to Cassandra , Leliana etc...and you can have this talk at Haven before you can prove anything to him.

It's not that people are broken , it's just him lying to himself so he can say nonsense like "I'm not a monster."