482 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

I can totally see Fen'Harel being Mythal's pet/guard dog.  That he is still her slave (emotionally) does not occur to him, and does provide a way to redeem him.

 

I think Morrigan, being Mythal's new receptacle, will be the new villain.  They have been setting this up since DAO.

Oh I absolutely disagree on this. Morrigan ain't gonna be the Villain. Solas is gonna be a stepping stone onto the final grand villain, which I think is gonna be what the ancient elves sealed deep within the Deep Roads. Aka the Blight or its progenitor.

[Hellion Rex]

I just thought of something. If Elgar'nan was the Eldest of the Sun, could the Sun have caused her death? 

 

Spoiler

 

That image was taken by someone in another thread. Solas painted this in Trespasser it seems.

Possibly. He could have killed her via the Sun.

[AllThatJazz]

Yeah. It's with Kieran in the Fade, with Morrigan. One of my all time favorite lines from Flemeth.

At 4:27 in the video below.

 

https://youtu.be/O9EBcOUhgbA?t=4m27s

Well that's interesting. Do you remember Eleni Zinovia? She's the prophecy-spouting Tevinter statue in the basement at Kinloch Hold -you see her both in the Mage Origin and again in Witch Hunt? Well one of her prophecies is this: 

 

'The prison is breached. I see the encroaching darkness. The... the shadow will consume all..'

 

Doesn't necessarily refer to Mythal of course, but we know Dragon Age prophecies are generally meaningful, so who knows?? 

[AstraDrakkar]

I can totally see Fen'Harel being Mythal's pet/guard dog.  That he is still her slave (emotionally) does not occur to him, and does provide a way to redeem him.

 

I think Morrigan, being Mythal's new receptacle, will be the new villain.  They have been setting this up since DAO.

 

This statement reminds me of the song you can find in Haven about "Andraste's Mabari"

 

Also there is something very ominous about the way Flemythal says "I am sorry as well old friend" right before he absorbs her. I just get the feeling she isn't done yet.

[Tielis]

This statement reminds me of the song you can find in Haven about "Andraste's Mabari"

 

Mind blown.  Yes!  I completely believe that Andraste held the Mythal spark for awhile.

[AstraDrakkar]

Mind blown.  Yes!  I completely believe that Andraste held the Mythal spark for awhile.

 

And we all know how important songs are in the DA universe. The Stone/Lyrium/The Blight sings. "Alas, as long as the music plays we dance".

 

Yes I am a hopelessly addicted DA lorehound of many years. Doesn't mean I have all the answers, just a lot more questions in fact.....

[Korva]

The devs said they made sure people saw his caring side, his compassion and love for things because they wanted us to see him as Solas not Fen'Harel.

 

The problem for me is, that when contrasted with the terrible things he did and wants to do, I feel angry at being deliberately manipulated like that by the writers. It both worked because I'm more upset by his betrayals and lies than I would ever be if I hadn't cared for him, and didn't work because all the "good" things about him are now inescapably tainted by knowing what he really planned to do to us all along.

 

I can understand it completely. He just has to believe that the prize--the healing of the world and the restoration of the elves--is worth it. He seems himself as necessarily evil.

 

Nah, he doesn't see himself as evil (a "monster") at all. At any rate, what I have trouble imagining how he even managed to remotely start caring with that plan always foremost in mind. When he came to the Inquisition, we were all not-people in his eyes. He had to lie and put up a facade to function in the Inquisition and keep suspicions about him as low as possible. Once that mindset started showing cracks -- a crime he murdered that Felassan fellow for not so long ago -- wouldn't he double down on it all the more harshly?

 

Hmm, this is what I had. Pretty sure he conceded the people point but that he regrets that he must still follow through regardless. Might have to go back and remind myself what he says exactly... It just seemed like he was trying his hardest to ignore his feelings and convince himself there was no choice. You do get some signs of inner conflict with high approval though.

 

Thanks. The emotion in that scene is definitely sublime -- the voice actor deserves massive kudos. The conflict is noticeable on several levels.

 

Here's something that occured to me: remember the conversations we had with him where he sounded like he had given up or was about to give up on something important? When he was giving off an almost "what can I do anyway" vibe about some things? Or when he demanded to know what we would do if we failed and had everything fall apart? After the post-credits reveal, I remembered those conversations and had a huge "OH SH*T! He's about to do something REALLY BAD that he almost let go until I accidentally encouraged him to go for it because I refuse to give up and thought he shouldn't either!" moment.

 

How do folks view those conversations now, in the light of the truth about him?

[AstraDrakkar]

Yes, I have had thoughts about those conversations with Solas in the game. I would like to go back and see what the other options were and look at them more closely. (perhaps with another play through...) I have a feeling though that no matter what answers we give, he's gonna do what he's gonna do.

[Reznore57]

I don't really like going back and talking to Solas.

It just makes me sick.

 

He thinks blood magic is fine and dandy , well sure if he used to be a spirit and ancient elves could survive bodily harm ,what's a little blood?

Then there is his whole speech about spirits are "people" , then he compares them to Cassandra , Varric , Leliana.The ones he thinks aren't people.

The whole thing about Cole?

He wants Cole to be more spirity and not evolve because he dislikes the way current races evolved.Away from the fade.

 

His whole speech about spirits being demons just because they are corrupted by human nature doesn't even make any sense.

Unless you had an utopia where people only have positive emotions , negative emotions are part of life .

It's like Ishmael and the "Choice spirit" oh sure you make the right choice , he is a spirit and spares you.

You make the wrong ones he rips the flesh from your bones.

That's what spirits are for Solas , a danger he can outwit , so he thinks everyone should.

And Ishmael the Choice spirit was already causing trouble during ancient times , he and his demons friend were bound by the Evanuris.

 

Edit :Oh I forget , he has a banter with Vivienne , she ask him how he would deal with maleficar without templars and an organisation to control magic.

His reply :"well you kill them".

Sure from the guy who had to create the veil , destroy the nature of his people and their empire just to get rid of 7 powerful "maleficar".

You kill them...Does he even think sometimes?

I think the fact he may have been a spirit make him unable to compute properly.

[Arlee]

Thanks. The emotion in that scene is definitely sublime -- the voice actor deserves massive kudos. The conflict is noticeable on several levels.

 

Here's something that occured to me: remember the conversations we had with him where he sounded like he had given up or was about to give up on something important? When he was giving off an almost "what can I do anyway" vibe about some things? Or when he demanded to know what we would do if we failed and had everything fall apart? After the post-credits reveal, I remembered those conversations and had a huge "OH SH*T! He's about to do something REALLY BAD that he almost let go until I accidentally encouraged him to go for it because I refuse to give up and thought he shouldn't either!" moment.

 

How do folks view those conversations now, in the light of the truth about him?

 

Agreed on the VA part and also I give kudos to the animators as well because of the fine details (from facial expressions to body movements) work together as well to sell the internal conflict.

 

And yea I've been kicking myself for that convo a lot. I mean I totally know it wouldn't change anything but at the same time it's like "dammit why was I so encouraging?? ><"

[Cobra's_back]

That's why I don't trust her. She is too helpful, always tucking pieces of herself away, tricked Morrigan into having an OG baby she extracted the soul of for herself, giving cryptic replies, talking about the world changing and falling into the abyss as vengeance strikes down. Solas is basically her mouthpiece.

 

Actually, I think she will help again. The flip side of justice is revenge. That nature could be understood. She is sassy and straight forward. Solas is dreamy but deceitful, so much so he is deceiving himself. He thinks he can control what he could not before. 

[Cobra's_back]

That's where his caring too much side comes in. He shouldn't have felt that way, but seeing the world cut off from the Fade is killing him and he wants to bring back the beauty he saw and share it with those who survive the change. He also detested slavery and couldn't stand how the Gods used their power for personal gain. If he had a steel heart he would have likely been unstoppable.

 

Yes, he is beautiful to listen to. Unfortunately, he can't stop slavery and will actually create the situation where slavery will be the norm. What he wants to do will once again give supernatural powers to a few. Flemeth stated that the fade was where she was most powerful. Not everyone will have that kind of power so many will be slaves as they were in the past.

[Solas]

And we all know how important songs are in the DA universe. The Stone/Lyrium/The Blight sings. "Alas, as long as the music plays we dance".

 

Yes I am a hopelessly addicted DA lorehound of many years. Doesn't mean I have all the answers, just a lot more questions in fact.....

thats how they get you hooked on lyrium 

[Lady Elsa]

Thanks. The emotion in that scene is definitely sublime -- the voice actor deserves massive kudos. The conflict is noticeable on several levels.

 

Here's something that occured to me: remember the conversations we had with him where he sounded like he had given up or was about to give up on something important? When he was giving off an almost "what can I do anyway" vibe about some things? Or when he demanded to know what we would do if we failed and had everything fall apart? After the post-credits reveal, I remembered those conversations and had a huge "OH SH*T! He's about to do something REALLY BAD that he almost let go until I accidentally encouraged him to go for it because I refuse to give up and thought he shouldn't either!" moment.

 

How do folks view those conversations now, in the light of the truth about him?

 

I had another look at the scene and he definitely does come off as more conflicted/remorseful. I agree, the voice actor did an amazing job. 

 

Inky: "Are we not even people to you?"

Solas: "Not at first. You showed me I was wrong...again. That does not make what comes next any easier."

 

Inky: "You did not care. We were just pawns to you."

 

Solas: "You were people and you deserved better, like all the rest I have used in one hopeless battle after another." (I presume he is referring to the freed slaves who followed him before?)

 

Inky: "You would murder countless people?"

 

Solas "Wouldn't you? To save your own?" he also says something like "sometimes all you have are terrible choices" 

 

So he fully acknowledges that his plan is monstrous but feels he has no choice because he must "save the elven people" and "restore the world of his time". 

 

All I want to do now is imagine Inky catching up to him and singing 'Let it go, let it go' very loudly until he admits he was wrong (again)

[Ramification]

The problem for me is, that when contrasted with the terrible things he did and wants to do, I feel angry at being deliberately manipulated like that by the writers. It both worked because I'm more upset by his betrayals and lies than I would ever be if I hadn't cared for him, and didn't work because all the "good" things about him are now inescapably tainted by knowing what he really planned to do to us all along. 

 

 

 

Consider that he's just a well written anti-hero. Not a manipulation by the writers.

[Korva]

I had another look at the scene and he definitely does come off as more conflicted/remorseful. I agree, the voice actor did an amazing job. 

 

Inky: "Are we not even people to you?"

Solas: "Not at first. You showed me I was wrong...again. That does not make what comes next any easier."

 

Inky: "You did not care. We were just pawns to you."

 

Solas: "You were people and you deserved better, like all the rest I have used in one hopeless battle after another." (I presume he is referring to the freed slaves who followed him before?)

 

Thanks again. While this change of mind makes the decision to go ahead with his plans anyway more damning, at the same time it's still something of a relief to know that we truly affected him and that he isn't trying to revert to not-people-mode even if that would make it easier for him. Makes me feel a little less bitter about the more positive moments with him during the base game.

 

And yea I've been kicking myself for that convo a lot. I mean I totally know it wouldn't change anything but at the same time it's like "dammit why was I so encouraging?? ><"

 

I wonder what "lesson" he decided to take away from these conversations. Did he come close to changing his mind about going ahead ... or did he use our determination as a way to assure himself that we'd understand his plans because "surely" we would do the same for our cause? Did he start edging towards the former and then embraced the letter to make himself stay himself on track?

 

Interestingly enough this is like Andraste's story and I wonder how much of it might actually be Mythal's?

 

I really hope they won't drag Andraste into this on top of everything else. If mages and elven "gods" are the motivators and causes and explanations for everything in this setting, it becomes a lot more shallow.

 

I can totally see Fen'Harel being Mythal's pet/guard dog.  That he is still her slave (emotionally) does not occur to him, and does provide a way to redeem him.

 

I think Morrigan, being Mythal's new receptacle, will be the new villain.  They have been setting this up since DAO.

 

As much as I loathe Morrigan and would love to finally get rid of her, I think she's too much of writer's pet to go that way. She no doubt has a role to play yet, more's the pity, and I don't think we'll be allowed to "get in her way". And Solas' character would be cheapened if he was just a pawn ... that would give an convenient "excuse" for his actions, instead of forcing him and the players to face the full weight of how monstrous those plans are.

Modifié par Korva, 16 septembre 2015 - 02:02 .

[Arlee]

I wonder what "lesson" he decided to take away from these conversations. Did he come close to changing his mind about going ahead ... or did he use our determination as a way to assure himself that we'd understand his plans because "surely" we would do the same for our cause? Did he start eding towards the former and then embraced the letter to make himself stay himself on track?

 

 

As much as I loathe Morrigan and would love to finally get rid of her, I think she's too much of writer's pet to go that way. She no doubt has a role to play yet, more's the pity, and I don't think we'll be allowed to "get in her way". And Solas' character would be cheapened if he was just a pawn ... that would give an convenient "excuse" for his actions, instead of forcing him and the players to face the full weight of how monstrous those plans are.

 

I feel pretty confident romanced Solas did seriously consider letting go of his plans, I think unromanced but befreinded Solas does also but I'm not 100% sure about that. I think what honestly pushed him over was the breaking of his orb. I don't know exactly why but that moment feels like one which changed everything.

 

About Morrigan... my crazy insane theory is what Flemeth was doing at the beginning of the final scene is sending Mythal off to go to Morrigan (which would be easy to do if Morrigan drank from the well more complicated if she didn't) and what Solas got was actually the OGS/something similar in worlds where Morrigan didn't have the baby. But like I said, it's my crackpot theory

[AstraDrakkar]

Is anyone else planning on another playthrough and choosing all the options that Solas is against now? I am gonna start an AntiSolas playthrough as soon as I get home from work today. I ain't talkin to him or doin his quest or nothin.

[Arlee]

Is anyone else planning on another playthrough and choosing all the options that Solas is against now? I am gonna start an AntiSolas playthrough as soon as I get home from work today. I ain't talkin to him or doin his quest or nothin.

 

My first PT was sort of unintentionally that way because I allied with the Templars, put Celene by herself but spared Gespard, and didn't exile the wardens. I think the only thing I did that he liked was I didn't slaughter the elves at the temple. I didn't even do his personal quest that PT because I got distracted by other companions and forgot ><

[azarhal]

Is anyone else planning on another playthrough and choosing all the options that Solas is against now? I am gonna start an AntiSolas playthrough as soon as I get home from work today. I ain't talkin to him or doin his quest or nothin.

 

I've read on Reddit that If you never ask him questions about the Fade or Spirits (basically never talk to him) you get a unique dialog option in Trespasser with him.

[SamanthaJ]

I've read on Reddit that If you never ask him questions about the Fade or Spirits (basically never talk to him) you get a unique dialog option in Trespasser with him.

It's true. This is the one. Spoilers, obviously.

 

[AstraDrakkar]

I've read on Reddit that If you never ask him questions about the Fade or Spirits (basically never talk to him) you get a unique dialog option in Trespasser with him.

 

That's why I am doin it! (~stupid fade nerd~)

[diaspora2k5]

Every time they set up Morrigan as the villain they just reveal her to be an innocent cinnamon roll. If there's one thing we can be sure of it's she won't be an enemy.

[Tielis]

Every time they set up Morrigan as the villain they just reveal her to be an innocent cinnamon roll. If there's one thing we can be sure of it's she won't be an enemy.

 

Well, perhaps Mr. Weekes doesn't have the same crush on her that Mr. Gaider had.