482 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Well, perhaps Mr. Weekes doesn't have the same crush on her that Mr. Gaider had.

Why should she be a villain anyway? She was significantly less unpleasant in DAI.

[neonmoth]

All this talk about Morrigan-Mythal set up made me wonder how likely it is that Morrigan will actually be happy to participate in it. I know it's writers right to change her attitude towards FleMythal (+her actions to preserve the remnants of the past can give some leeway). Still, she was never enthusiastic about Flemeth's plans whilst the latter made it pretty clear she cannot hijack unwilling person. 

[Shari'El]

All this talk about Morrigan-Mythal set up made me wonder how likely it is that Morrigan will actually be happy to participate in it. I know it's writers right to change her attitude towards FleMythal (+her actions to preserve the remnants of the past can give some leeway). Still, she was never enthusiastic about Flemeth's plans whilst the latter made it pretty clear she cannot hijack unwilling person. 

 

Well first thing, keeping Mythal's essence is also part of preserving magic of old.

She was prepared to take upon herself the sacrifice required by well, no matter what, even if she has Kieran, in order to preserve magic of old.

It's not Flemeth taking control over her body, it's Flemeth passing her an essence of a demi-goddess, she might take it, and it might affect her, like Justice affected Anders.

[Iakus]

I had another look at the scene and he definitely does come off as more conflicted/remorseful. I agree, the voice actor did an amazing job. 

 

Inky: "Are we not even people to you?"

Solas: "Not at first. You showed me I was wrong...again. That does not make what comes next any easier."

 

Inky: "You did not care. We were just pawns to you."

 

Solas: "You were people and you deserved better, like all the rest I have used in one hopeless battle after another." (I presume he is referring to the freed slaves who followed him before?)

 

Inky: "You would murder countless people?"

 

Solas "Wouldn't you? To save your own?" he also says something like "sometimes all you have are terrible choices" 

 

So he fully acknowledges that his plan is monstrous but feels he has no choice because he must "save the elven people" and "restore the world of his time". 

 

All I want to do now is imagine Inky catching up to him and singing 'Let it go, let it go' very loudly until he admits he was wrong (again)

At least he doesn't say 'You have hope.  More than you think"

[Tielis]

Why should she be a villain anyway? She was significantly less unpleasant in DAI.

 

My only hope is that if she does indeed continue to have plot armor, that it is for a very good reason.

[Lady Elsa]

At least he doesn't say 'You have hope.  More than you think"

 

Yes, that was a relief. Hopefully next time we confront him he will not be giving us three options on how to save the world 

[Korva]

I think what honestly pushed him over was the breaking of his orb. I don't know exactly why but that moment feels like one which changed everything.

 

If you explore and explain that feeling more, I'd be interested in hearing about it. I suppose losing the orb drove home the inescapable fact that he had to choose now.

 

About Morrigan... my crazy insane theory is what Flemeth was doing at the beginning of the final scene is sending Mythal off to go to Morrigan (which would be easy to do if Morrigan drank from the well more complicated if she didn't) and what Solas got was actually the OGS/something similar in worlds where Morrigan didn't have the baby. But like I said, it's my crackpot theory

 

It can't be Urthemiel that Solas vampirized, IMO, because that soul might well be dust and is dust in Bioware's default worldstate. Whatever turned Solas into that glowy-eyed supermage must have been very significant, more significant than an unexplored "something similar". I guess we will see. He clearly got what he wanted, or at least thinks so ... else he'd be chasing whatever Flemeth sent away. But I would be very much surprised if there wasn't a price to pay for Flemeth going to her death without fighting back. Neither Flemeth nor Mythal, if they can even be separated at this point, sound like beings who'd just like down and die. Quite the opposite in fact.

[Arlee]

If you explore and explain that feeling more, I'd be interested in hearing about it. I suppose losing the orb drove home the inescapable fact that he had to choose now.

It's built a lot on his comment about "It wasn't supposed to be this way" which has always struck me as being more than just disappointment about his orb being broken. Add in at the end of Trespasser he says his plan with Cory was to have him unlock the orb (and die in the ensuing explosion) and then Solas would have been able to remove the veil using the power of the orb. The way he was animated and voice acted it just came across to me as a part of him broke there too.
 
He found out something of Mythal still remains through your activities at the temple and after (since the game often acts either as if everyone was there or as if you tell them all the things anyway). I think part of his sadness in the last scene with the Inquisitor is he realizes he's going to have to go after Mythal to get the power he needs to bring down the veil. Of course it also means he is willing to sacrifice anything and anyone in order to accomplish what he thinks is the right course, which is always problematic ><
 
I'm also wondering if there is something inherently different about lowering the veil with his orb vs doing it without. His whole line about it not being how it was supposed to be has also sort of always felt a bit like an apology in the way it was delivered, as if he knows now things will be much harder on all the people now. It's unfortunately an area we just don't know enough about yet. But I mean it's now been two years and he seemed to indicate there would be a few more before things start happening, which is weird. I mean what's he doing? Why with his new power can he not take the veil down now? This part is just all around confusing to me.
 

It can't be Urthemiel that Solas vampirized, IMO, because that soul might well be dust and is dust in Bioware's default worldstate. Whatever turned Solas into that glowy-eyed supermage must have been very significant, more significant than an unexplored "something similar". I guess we will see. He clearly got what he wanted, or at least thinks so ... else he'd be chasing whatever Flemeth sent away. But I would be very much surprised if there wasn't a price to pay for Flemeth going to her death without fighting back. Neither Flemeth nor Mythal, if they can even be separated at this point, sound like beings who'd just like down and die. Quite the opposite in fact.

I mostly use the OGS because that's the only thing I know of which specifically fills that role, plus Flemeth does the whole thing about not leaving without it in those PTs which is interesting. I'm sure there's something similar out there it could be but we just don't know about it. If (and big if) I'm correct in this I do believe Solas is absolutely aware he didn't get Mythal, and as long as he has the power to do what he needs I think he'd be ok with that.

 

Ototh, he might not be strong enough yet and what he's doing currently is looking for more power/Mythal. And yes, both Mythal and Flemeth's strong wills to survive is part of why i think this is a possibility. If they realized Solas was going to come for them and if they thought beating him wasn't possible this sort of misdirection is the sort of thing I think they'd both be more than capable of pulling off.

[neonmoth]

Well first thing, keeping Mythal's essence is also part of preserving magic of old.

She was prepared to take upon herself the sacrifice required by well, no matter what, even if she has Kieran, in order to preserve magic of old.

It's not Flemeth taking control over her body, it's Flemeth passing her an essence of a demi-goddess, she might take it, and it might affect her, like Justice affected Anders.

Yeah, I was pretty much musing/toying with the thought, since Morrigan carrying the spirit was a no-brainer for me after watching dai epilogue.  ^_^Still, I think it will be hard for her to agree on something that she was actively avoiding all along, especially that in the scene with Flemeth-Mythal it was hard to distinguish where one was ending and the other beginning. 

[Ramification]

 

Whatever turned Solas into that glowy-eyed supermage must have been very significant, more significant than an unexplored "something similar". I guess we will see. He clearly got what he wanted, or at least thinks so ... else he'd be chasing whatever Flemeth sent away. But I would be very much surprised if there wasn't a price to pay for Flemeth going to her death without fighting back. Neither Flemeth nor Mythal, if they can even be separated at this point, sound like beings who'd just like down and die. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

There is something a little off putting about the way Flemeth says "I'm sorry as well, old friend". I often wondered if she was apologizing for something she's planning that he doesn't know about. But I might just be reading into that exchange. 

[Tielis]

There is something a little off putting about the way Flemeth says "I'm sorry as well, old friend". I often wondered if she was apologizing for something she's planning that he doesn't know about. But I might just be reading into that exchange. 

 

I felt the same.  At first I was like, "Why is she apologizing?  What did she do in the past?  Or was she just sorry for the way things turned out in general?  Yes, that must be it."  Now, I'm not so sure.

[Arlee]

There is something a little off putting about the way Flemeth says "I'm sorry as well, old friend". I often wondered if she was apologizing for something she's planning that he doesn't know about. But I might just be reading into that exchange. 

 

I think it is exactly that.

[diaspora2k5]

Well, perhaps Mr. Weekes doesn't have the same crush on her that Mr. Gaider had.

She's only been getting less antagonistic and suspicious over time.

[Tielis]

She's only been getting less antagonistic and suspicious over time.

 

It could be a red herring.  After all, Flemeth helped the wardens and helped Hawke, but I sure don't trust her the way they had to.

[Hellion Rex]

Well, perhaps Mr. Weekes doesn't have the same crush on her that Mr. Gaider had.

Or perhaps she's simply not the villain you seem to think she is? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[diaspora2k5]

It could be a red herring.  After all, Flemeth helped the wardens and helped Hawke, but I sure don't trust her the way they had to.

Her being suspect and antagonistic in DAO was a red herring itself for the cinnamon roll personality in the first place.

[Korva]

The way he was animated and voice acted it just came across to me as a part of him broke there too.

 

Absolutely.

 

He found out something of Mythal still remains through your activities at the temple and after (since the game often acts either as if everyone was there or as if you tell them all the things anyway). I think part of his sadness in the last scene with the Inquisitor is he realizes he's going to have to go after Mythal to get the power he needs to bring down the veil.

 

I'm not sure he was thinking ahead in that moment, but it's possible that it occured to him rather soon, yes. And that means betraying and losing yet another being he used to be close to. And yet he gets so enraged recalling how she was originally betrayed. Cognitive dissonance, thy name is Solas? I wonder why he didn't simply talk to her first. We know she fiercely wants vengeance, but either their desires conflict in some way or he is too much of a guilt-ridden megalomaniac to not grasp at what power he can get to "solve" things personally.

 

I'm also wondering if there is something inherently different about lowering the veil with his orb vs doing it without. His whole line about it not being how it was supposed to be has also sort of always felt a bit like an apology in the way it was delivered, as if he knows now things will be much harder on all the people now.

 

Hmm. That is an interesting idea. At first I thought maybe Solas originally created it for the specific purpose of helping with the creation of the Veil. Then I remembered Dorian mentioning ancient images of magisters wielding similar orbs, which makes me wonder 1) what happened to these others, 2) is Solas going after them now, and 3) if they maybe were tools of the other "gods".

 

I mean what's he doing? Why with his new power can he not take the veil down now? This part is just all around confusing to me.

 

[...]

Ototh, he might not be strong enough yet and what he's doing currently is looking for more power/Mythal.

 

That's most likely it, yes.

 

And yes, both Mythal and Flemeth's strong wills to survive is part of why i think this is a possibility. If they realized Solas was going to come for them and if they thought beating him wasn't possible this sort of misdirection is the sort of thing I think they'd both be more than capable of pulling off.

I don't think Solas would have been remotely capable of taking on Flemeth. While one should never judge a character's "actual" strength merely by game mechanics, I honestly think Solas was a powerful mage during Inquisition ... but not much more than that. Flemeth/Mythal could literally swallow him whole if she did her little dragon stunt, and that's only the most blatant way she could flatten him.

 

There is something a little off putting about the way Flemeth says "I'm sorry as well, old friend". I often wondered if she was apologizing for something she's planning that he doesn't know about. But I might just be reading into that exchange. 

 

I don't think you are reading too much into it. This is Flemeth. She's definitely up to something, and it's anyone's guess which of these two may wind up being the bigger problem in the end. I mean, I like Flemeth. She's creepy and mysterious and interesting and has a sense of humor even if you never know if poking at it might get you stomped on. But the way she acts at the altar when she promises a reckoning that will shake the heavens? Yikes. There's bad news in the future for sure.

[Iakus]

Why should she be a villain anyway? She was significantly less unpleasant in DAI.

Motherhood agrees with her, apparently.

[TK514]

 

It can't be Urthemiel that Solas vampirized, IMO, because that soul might well be dust and is dust in Bioware's default worldstate. Whatever turned Solas into that glowy-eyed supermage must have been very significant, more significant than an unexplored "something similar". I guess we will see. He clearly got what he wanted, or at least thinks so ... else he'd be chasing whatever Flemeth sent away. But I would be very much surprised if there wasn't a price to pay for Flemeth going to her death without fighting back. Neither Flemeth nor Mythal, if they can even be separated at this point, sound like beings who'd just like down and die. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

I've been assuming he got exactly what he wanted, just not the way he thought he was, and he doesn't know it yet.  He wanted FleMythal's power, and got it.  I suspect he wanted it free and clear of any lingering consciousness, and that's where I think he's got a nasty surprise coming.

 

I think FleMythal is in Solas, biding her time until the right moment.  What that right moment might be is a little less clear.  Could be saving Thedas, could be encountering the folks that murdered her.  Time will tell, hopefully.

[myahele]

Now that I think of it, Flemythal has had alot of planning and avenues in which she can set up the reckoning she mentions.

 

Her power may just be a fragment ... but she has all that knowledge and had centuries to plan. We learn from Solas that some Ancient Elvhen magic can take many many years (they sleep and its done) to set up and that it's effects can echo for centuries on end.

 

Since getting Flemeth, she's had the support of the Dalish who call her: "Asha'Bellanar," daughter(s) that protect/reawaken the Great Dragons, she has Morrigan, optional Urthemiel soul, and that's just what we know she's done since merging with Flemeth.

 

Solas and Corypheus manage to get a lot done in relatively short amount of time (few years) just imagine what she's been doing.

 

I believe there will come a time when events will take place that will somehow activate Flemythal's contingency plan of reckoning.

 

her "I'm sorry too, my friend" can just be her saying that Solas' goals are futile due to her own plans

[GrinningRogue]

So Solas didn't actually absorb her? What was that about her turning into stone in the end if DAI?

[Boost32]

I think Solas absorbed only her powers, she sent Mythal essence (and Urthemiel if you did the DR) through the Eluvian.

[Arlee]

So Solas didn't actually absorb her? What was that about her turning into stone in the end if DAI?

 

He definitely took whatever was left in Flemeth at the end, but it may or may not have been Mythal (or all of Mythal). Of course it could have been Mythal lock stock and barrel. These are just our theories

[congokong]

I certainly understand his POV, but that doesn't mean my character agrees with it. The only one that supports his goals is my romanced Lavellan. ...But my qunari Inquisitor, well, it's a shame she couldn't punch him again. It would have been funny when trying to attack him it shows her going for a swing and Solas stops her saying, "Not this time, Inquisitor."

[Blood Mage Reaver]

Yes, that was a relief. Hopefully next time we confront him he will not be giving us three options on how to save the world 

 

Red choice - destroy all magic

Blue choice - you become god and control magic

Green choice - everyone becomes a darkspawn mage hybrid

 

 

On a serious note tough, have anyone here considering Solas invincible even played Origins or DAII?

 

Did the HoF just rolfbombed out of Ostagar into the Arch Demon's head and killed it? Did Hawke just stepped out of a refugee boat, beat the Arishok and ousted commander Meredith?

 

*facepalm*

 

Every previous DA game was about the fresh PC climbing out of a pile of dung to build the power he needed to stop whatever he had to deal with.

 

Inquisition's only difference is that the PC got the power at the start and the journey was about mastering it but he/she also had to build a massive force to deal with a nigh unkillable enemy.

 

Killing Solas will be no different, the PC will start out as a whimp then work his way to godlike levels of power to deal with him.

 

Tearing down the Veil will only work against Solas on the long run because it will allow the PC to obtain whatever kind of power the Evanuris used to become godlike then it will be god vs god with Solas on the losing side.