482 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

I suppose if someone wants to roleplay a racist elf that doesn't care about their own life it makes sense...but then there are Solavellan players actually thinking he's right and hoping he succeeds.

 

Just like good friends don't let friends be a part of the Qun, I believe that good girlfriends don't let their boyfriends commit genocide...

 

Yeah I just read that and walk away shaking my head.

 

If Fenris went into LET'S KILL ALL MAGES mode my Friendship Hawke wouldn't support him my Hawke would shake him then drag him kicking and screaming back home after knocking some sense into him. Good grief.

[Ryzaki]

Yeah, because it's terrible to be roleplaying in a roleplaying game.

 

As long as you're aware you're roleplaying an idiot or a psycho that's fine and not trying to play it off as some noble goal in anything other than your character's deluded brain. I roleplay idiots and psychos too.

[Korva]

Maybe some of the people who don't want him dead can help me out? I'll admit up-front that what I've seen about this DLC is pretty much a worst-case scenario for me, and I have no intentions of playing it. And the truth about Solas is worse than I feared -- that is not part of the "worst-case" scenario for me, but looking back at the main game, it colours so many scenes (even ones he is not directly involved in) with a lot of bitterness and anger at having been used and lied to like this. While I kind of liked Solas-as-Solas despite his very obvious flaws, I was really worried about Solas-as-Fen'Harel, and now can't for the life of me imagine how we're supposed to consider him as anything other than the monster he protests he is not. If anything, his kind of evil is far more insidious than the likes of Corypheus or some Stereotypical Moustache Twirling Villain™. So I'm asking honestly ... how am I supposed to salvage my opinion of this character to any degree?

 

Specifically, I'm asking from the POV of someone who played a non-elf non-mage and always had sub-zero interest in "romancing" him. I liked to think (before the reveal with Flemeth/Mythal) that he and my Inquisitor had a sincere friendship that, while not as close or easy as her platonic love for Cassandra and Cole, was nonetheless important to her. As a non-mage, noble-born, devout (but open-minded and devoted to the truth) Andrastian, partly templar-trained human who made a lot of "big" decisions he disagreed with, she probably embodies a lot of what he is inclined to particularly dislike, and they had a bit of a rocky start. Their friendship was hard-won and slow to build, but no less valuable for that -- in fact, she came to rely on him as an "outsider's voice" to provide an important difference in viewpoints that, despite all attempts to be open-minded, might otherwise go unnoticed by her and Cass and the advisors. Basically, she's a lot like Cassandra, with a bit more political acumen, a growing fascination with spirits, and a slightly lower tendency to throw punches when she gets p*ssed off.

 

I supppse some might say that this hard-won friendship based on what I thought was genuine mutual respect not despite all their differences, but based partly on those differences, on being able to disagree quite strongly at times while still trusting each other to act with thoughtfulness and compassion and integrity, actually makes my Inquisitor a strong candidate for being able to shift Solas' views. If the friendship and respect were sincere on his part, then coming to view her that way was already more of challenge to him than beginning to feel kinship for someone who is a lot more like him.

 

Thing is, that is a pretty big "if" for me to believe, all things considered. And I just ... didn't see anything sympathic or tragic in the talk with him. If anything, it just kept getting worse. Maybe playing it instead of watching it would have felt a little different, but I don't think it would have changed my mind much. Part of Solas' "legacy" until that point was that he and Cole are the reason why my Inquisitor came to see spirits as people in their own right, why she wants to do what she can to make people less afraid of them and interacting with this world safer for them. I imagine that is what first truly broke the ice between her and Solas on the journey to Skyhold and afterwards: they bonded over her newfound desire to learn more about spirits so she could truly help Cole feel safe, welcome, understood and cherished. And then Solas pretty much confirms that no one in this world is a person in his eyes -- that was a real brutal gut-punch.

 

Cole still feels for him, clearly, and usually I'm so partial to my most compassionate friend that I will take his reaction as "proof" that the person in question isn't wholly beyond redemption. Until this point, that is what kept my hopes up for Solas. Now, hearing the full ugly truth from Solas' own mouth, even that is not enough anymore.

 

Long story short, and sorry for the wall of explanatory text: what can a player and a character who are NOT inclined to think Solas is the bee's knees (be it because of "romance" or for other reasons) do to not hate him now?

[Ryzaki]

Yeah his friendship to my archer dude read as "I know what I'm doing is wrong but I'm too boneheaded to admit it so please knock some sense into me."

 

If we deal with Solas while playing as someone other than Quizzy that'll be a major buzzkill.

 

Goddamnit.

[Hellion Rex]

to hell with him. I'm gonna kill him, pure and simple. He used us, betrayed us, and is attempting genocide. For all that he talks crap about the other elven gods, he looks no better in my eyes.

[Bad King]

to hell with him. I'm gonna kill him, pure and simple. He used us, betrayed us, and is attempting genocide. For all that he talks crap about the other elven gods, he looks no better in my eyes.

 

Maybe some of the elven gods were actually pretty chill but Solas hated them out of jealousy.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Bioware just revealed the protagonist for DA4. Here he is !

 

 

[jellobell]

Long story short, and sorry for the wall of explanatory text: what can a player and a character who are NOT inclined to think Solas is the bee's knees (be it because of "romance" or for other reasons) do to not hate him now?

Yeah, I see what you're struggling with.

 

Which is the "real" Solas? The one who is compassionate and curious or the one who is willing to destroy our world to bring back his own? I'd say both. The sense I got was that, for a while there, the Inquisition made him rethink his plans. In the Fade scene he tells a (friendly) Inquisitor, "You change everything". Just add a, "because maybe the world isn't so shitty if people like you are in it." And he was overjoyed at the realization. From the beginning, he told the Inquisitor his real name, and I think Solas the curious nerd is a lot closer to what he was before than Fen'harel: Genocidal Maniac.

 

You've also gotta remember that at the beginning of Inquisition, it's only been a year since he went to sleep. Imagine if you woke up in a nuclear wasteland when last week you thought you'd discovered cold fusion. In fact, it's a lot like what the Inquisitor faced when they were trapped in that alternate future (nice foreshadowing there, Bioware). Modern Thedas must have seemed like an absolute nightmare when he first woke up.

 

So, for maybe the first quarter of Inquisition he's still in that, "modern people aren't people" mindset. Then the Inquisitor brings him around. But then you hit the Temple of Mythal, and Solas is torn between this new world and what he sees as his duty to his people.

 

He's still very obviously torn. I think he thinks he's making the right decision for the world at large (lifting the veil would help spirits, stop the elves from dying out, return magic to the world, save the people he loves) but he really doesn't want to do it. And I think he's too broken not to try. Which is why he's pretty much begging you to stop him. I mean, he saved the Inquisitor's life. Even if he's rivals with them. And his explanation in the latter case (that it would cause too much chaos) is bullshit. The Inquisitor is one of the only people in the world he's formed an attachment to. He doesn't want to let that go.

 

Will any of this make you hate him less? I dunno. Solas is one big ball of grief and contradictions right now. I think the "save him from himself" option is very apt, because he is self-destructing in a really sad way. Even if he does succeed with his plan, he's not going to be able to live with himself. I get the sense that he mostly just wants to die in the process. The thing he needs most right now is a friend to come and slap some sense into him.

[ProphetOfDoom666]

Never liked him and how he views other races and the world around him.Like all true evil he thinks he is doing something bad for a good reason.Adolf Egghead must die!

[myahele]

Yeah ... Solas has to die. Or more aptly, get sealed somewhere.

 

He non-chalantly says that if things went according to plan as soon as Corypheus died in the explosion he would have entered the Fade and removed the Veil. The immediate effect of removing the veil seems to have a an explosion, but on a mach larger scale.

[RGC_Ines]

Maybe there could be a way to correct Solas mistakes without killing him. The Inquisition have to find new ally and it will be almost for sure Tevinter. As we know Dorian always return to Tevinter, so he probably will be in DA4. And what Dorian done in DAI? An amulet which allow time travel.So maybe Tevinter will be able to create device, which will allow us to travel into past, and then maybe we will be able to stop Mythal murderers, stop Solas before he will destroy his homeworld, or at last to stop his awakening from uthenera ( or whatever this word was)

[The Ascendant]

I hope we see Calpernia again in Tevinter, I persuaded her to turn against Corypheus. It'll take a long time, but so looking forward to the next game.

[myahele]

I just came up with something!

 

If you Dorian mentions that there's enough samples of Eluvian to probably recreate one. 

 

I wonder just how possible it would be for them to create their own "eluvian network" that's separate from Feen'harels Crossroads. At most they can make a very rudimentary Eluvian network?

[Abyss108]

I'm not killing him unless there's no other way to stop him. That could change once he's actually done something, but at the moment he's only talked about what he plans to do. No actual modern-world-destroying crime committed yet.

[psychocandy]

Typical Shem!

Hermm..not really

 

i just dislike the whole "elven trope" in fantasy realms

[Asdrubael Vect]

I just came up with something!

 

If you Dorian mentions that there's enough samples of Eluvian to probably recreate one. 

 

I wonder just how possible it would be for them to create their own "eluvian network" that's separate from Feen'harels Crossroads. At most they can make a very rudimentary Eluvian network?

only elfs(even ancient magisters with a huge powers and a lot of lyrium and blood cant) can do this as we understand and Merril do this alone and without any help and lyrium

 

elf still control the network(the network is not separeted, only some part are temporaly blocked because there were specially blocked or mirror were broken) and we do not know how long no-elfs can survive inside webway because they are not feel good and eluvians consider them as enemies

[Korva]

@Ryzaki and @dafan0903: I know what he says, I just don't "feel" it. Given what he has done and plans to do, how he views everyone around him, and how he talks about it all in a rather self-pitying way, with oh so many reasons and justifications and excuses, makes it hard to feel any sympathy. It's his countless intended victims that I pity. Shedding a few crocodile tears as he does the deed won't make them any less dead. Mass genocide (mundocide?) isn't any less atrocious if he tries to make it "comfortable".

 

I do enjoy a good redemption story, but I need Solas to give me something to work with to be able to invest in his redemption story.

 

Yeah, I see what you're struggling with.

 

Which is the "real" Solas? The one who is compassionate and curious or the one who is willing to destroy our world to bring back his own? I'd say both.

 

Probably. I'll grant that he is honest at long last, and that if he was really beyond the pale he'd just kill the Inquisitor to make sure. I'll also grant that change must be bloody damned hard if you're as old, obsessed, prejudiced, guilt-ridden, and yes only recently awakened as he is. I also do believe that the bonds he develops are as sincere as they can be on his part, but the thing is that they are nonetheless based on deceit, which does not allow the others to develop sincere feelings. The Solas they think they know and the real Solas may overlap to some varying degree or another, but they are never truly the same. That is one reason why I don't "feel" the connection. The other reason is that to me the meeting showcased his worst traits in a similar manner to the balcony scene (which I really do not like). As a result, I just didn't feel bad for "my friend Solas", or "honored" in some weird way about being some degree of "special" in his eyes.

 

The sense I got was that, for a while there, the Inquisition made him rethink his plans. In the Fade scene he tells a (friendly) Inquisitor, "You change everything". Just add a, "because maybe the world isn't so shitty if people like you are in it." And he was overjoyed at the realization. From the beginning, he told the Inquisitor his real name, and I think Solas the curious nerd is a lot closer to what he was before than Fen'harel: Genocidal Maniac.

 

Yes, I kind of agree with that too. But I don't think it took the Temple of Mythal to make him feel torn again. His plans were laid very deliberately, and he had already found agents to help set them in motion ... and having them would also have reminded him of his perceived duty to the only people who must be allowed to matter, long before he ever met Abelas. Once other people do start mattering, even if only in small ways at first because he does have that compassionate side, his frustration with the changed world and his own "wavering" becomes harder to keep a lid on. Many of his "a**hole-moments" really start to make sense when you know who he is and how he seems to see-saw between that frustration and being relieved when he finds people he can grow to respect.

 

... meh. I realize that I still like Solas-as-Solas, for all that I sometimes want to kick his bald arse into orbit and eviscerate it on the way back down. It's just that the now very frankly displayed "you aren't people" and "you are broken because you don't have what I think you should have, therefor you need to be fixed or go away" attitudes of Solas-as-Fen'Harel hit very close to home. I was so ticked off by Varric's "not a person" reaction to more-spirit-Cole for the same reason. Putting the burden of changing such attitudes on the "non-people" who have the deck stacked against them so heavily already by that bias is always a sh*tty thing to do.

[Ryzaki]

Oh I'm not trying to get you stop stabbing you in the gut. If that's how you feel by all means do it. I'm simply saying what made me try to save him. XD I'm a sucker for the masochist options. It's why I romanced Bull. *tish*

[actionhero112]

I'm not killing him unless there's no other way to stop him. That could change once he's actually done something, but at the moment he's only talked about what he plans to do. No actual modern-world-destroying crime committed yet.

 

What about leading cory to the orb and causing this entire game's conflict in the first place?

 

Is that not a crime? Think how many died because of that decision.

[Abyss108]

What about leading cory to the orb and causing this entire game's conflict in the first place?

 

Is that not a crime? Think how many died because of that decision.

 

Yeah, that was bad and he massively messed up there. But he didn't unleash Cory on purpose and didn't have any control over what Cory did afterwards. He's responsible for the deaths in the initial explosion, but I wouldn't blame him for the events of the game afterwards, which he did his best to fix.

 

It's a crime, but not a world-destroying one so far. I've got characters in Bioware games that have killed more people then that trying to do good. Solas hasn't actually achieved anything large scale yet.

 

I did specify world-destroying crime in my post, not just any crime!

 

Of course he did destroy the world once, but we only have his obviously biased view of how that was nessesary. So I can't really judge him either way for that until we have more information about what actually happened! 

[jellobell]

Many of his "a**hole-moments" really start to make sense when you know who he is and how he seems to see-saw between that frustration and being relieved when he finds people he can grow to respect.

Yeah. I always found Solas frustratingly contrary at times, but this does explain a lot of things.

 

I also like how, one of the bedrock aspects of his character, "Solas cares about people", is still very true. But it has a lot more layers now (and some caveats). He is incredibly devoted to his people, the ones he saved from slavery. And now, after he realizes that "saving" them just screwed them over even more, he's trying to make good. Problem is, he's starting to care about this new world, and he doesn't see how the two can coexist.

 

... meh. I realize that I still like Solas-as-Solas, for all that I sometimes want to kick his bald arse into orbit and eviscerate it on the way back down. It's just that the now very frankly displayed "you aren't people" and "you are broken because you don't have what I think you should have, therefor you need to be fixed or go away" attitudes of Solas-as-Fen'Harel hit very close to home. I was so ticked off by Varric's "not a person" reaction to more-spirit-Cole for the same reason. Putting the burden of changing such attitudes on the "non-people" who have the deck stacked against them so heavily already by that bias is always a sh*tty thing to do.

I think it's less that he thinks "modern people are broken and thus must be actively purged", and more "this whole world is fucked and I owe it to the people who loved and trusted me to un-fuck it." Viewing people as not real is a coping mechanism so he can get on with what he feels he has to do. It's awful and wrongheaded and more than a little bit nuts. The man is way more broken than I'd ever imagined.

 

And I'm with you on wanting to kick his ass. My emotions are some weird combination of affection, sadness, and FURY. Which is why I'm loving the setup at the end of the DLC. The Inquisitor putting themselves in opposition to Solas's goals and ideals, while still thinking of him as a friend, and being determined to stop him. It's a solution that perfectly turns my mixed feelings into a plan of action.

[Bigdoser]

Yeah it does make sense I mean the man leaks approval by just asking questions. I think when he first meets you he is actually relieved that he has found someone that actually "Listens" to him. Plus his line when you agree that spirits are people as well after his explanation you can hear the small shock in his voice and he noted he never expected to find someone who would think the same. 

 

Its because of the inquisitor that he now see's the world has some value hence why I feel he has delayed his plans for a time and why he tipped you off about the Qunari. The last scene just made me feel so sad his pride and guilt is the only thing that is pushing him to do this insane plan but its good that if you are friends/romance he believes you can show him another way and save him from himself. 

 

Honestly that conversation in skyhold in your room where he tells you he respects you greatly considering majority of your race act in a typical fashion. (which they do most of the time *looks at the Qunari in the trespasser DLC*)