482 réponses à ce sujet

[actionhero112]

Yeah, that was bad and he massively messed up there. But he didn't unleash Cory on purpose and didn't have any control over what Cory did afterwards. He's responsible for the deaths in the initial explosion, but I wouldn't blame him for the events of the game afterwards, which he did his best to fix.

 

It's a crime, but not a world-destroying one so far. I've got characters in Bioware games that have killed more people then that trying to do good. Solas hasn't actually achieved anything large scale yet.

 

I did specify world-destroying crime in my post, not just any crime!

 

Of course he did destroy the world once, but we only have his obviously biased view of how that was nessesary. So I can't really judge him either way for that until we have more information about what actually happened! 

I'm also probably going to redeem Solas. Personally I think he just made a series of errors, and who am I to judge a 100000 year old god right? I will stop him if it comes down to it, but I'm not out to kill him. I like egg spock too much.

 

Plus it feels like he's trying to do good, however misguided that intent might be. I like the spirit of that intent. 

[Dean_the_Young]

I have faith in his redemption, I like to believe that he could perhaps see reason or find a less bloody path that leads to his goal.

To spill his blood would be such a terribly tragic waste of such an intriguing and grand character, a last resort I solemnly pray we won't have to fall to.

I myself, await what occurs next with barely concealed anticipation.

 

And remember, people:

 

No matter how many millions of people have been killed, enslaved, or otherwise suffered as a direct result of your actions and intentions... being interesting (and attractive) makes it all go away.

[thesuperdarkone2]

And remember, people:

 

No matter how many millions of people have been killed, enslaved, or otherwise suffered as a direct result of your actions and intentions... being interesting (and attractive) makes it all go away.

It worked for Loghain.

[Dean_the_Young]

From my perspective, even if you manage to talk him out of it this time, ultimately Solas is too dangerous to leave alive.  Unless you find some way to permanently keep him from regaining his former strength, there's nothing to stop him from getting desperate or depressed in the future and trying this whole business again, only without anyone to stop him.

 

 

How does that judgement go...

 

Having done damage beyond all reckoning, a mage's crime, a mage's punishment...?

[ThePhoenixKing]

And remember, people:

 

No matter how many millions of people have been killed, enslaved, or otherwise suffered as a direct result of your actions and intentions... being interesting (and attractive) makes it all go away.

 

That just makes him a project, and everyone loves a good project!

 

Yeah... considering how this guy is basically Elven Darkseid and petulantly intends on warping the space-time continuum until it conforms to his own personal desires, even at the cost of millions of lives, the only kiss he deserves is that of Vigiliance at his neck.

[jellobell]

No matter how many millions of people have been killed, enslaved, or otherwise suffered as a direct result of your actions and intentions... being interesting (and attractive) makes it all go away.

I don't think anyone's saying that. But the fact remains that, for most of my Inquisitors, Solas is a friend. They can't treat him like just another enemy. They'd never want him to succeed with his plans, but that doesn't mean they want to murder the guy either. Not unless it becomes absolutely necessary.

 

And I think the Inquisitor, especially an Inquisitor who glimpsed the bad future on the mage path, is uniquely able to empathize with Solas's predicament. Who's to say they would handle being the cause of the end of their world any better?

 

But oh, the irony. I remember a time when everyone was falling over themselves talking about how ugly and bald Solas was.    Does he count as one of those sexy villains that women fawn over now? I guess I didn't get the memo.

[Ryzaki]

Not really he's still an egg head.

 

He's just my nerdy grandpa racist egghead that I won't kill unless I have to because I still want to nerd out about fade things.

[tsunamitigerdragon]

 

I suppose if someone wants to roleplay a racist elf that doesn't care about their own life it makes sense...but then there are Solavellan players actually thinking he's right and hoping he succeeds.

 

Just like good friends don't let friends be a part of the Qun, I believe that good girlfriends don't let their boyfriends commit genocide...

 

 

And remember, people:

 

No matter how many millions of people have been killed, enslaved, or otherwise suffered as a direct result of your actions and intentions... being interesting (and attractive) makes it all go away.

 

 

Seriously, thank you.

 

It's the most logic I've heard in the past 48 hours.

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

i hope we can call time on all elves, wipe their pointy eared sense of superiority from the face of Thedas once and for all

 

The best part of the DLC is learning that

Spoiler

the lost of immortality was Fen'harel fault, muhahhahahaha. Once again, another great elven crisis caused by elves. If only the dalish weren't too thickheaded to understand the folly of their own race

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

He seems to secretly hope you can stop him and prove him wrong. He's a mess of confusion and wants to be stopped, but can't stop himself. That's why we can choose redemption over killing him. He needs to see reason and he's not completely beyond it yet.

 

Sounds like the plot of a bad romance novel which are a dime a dozen in bookstores.

[Stelae]

"Oh, I'm going to destroy the world, but I'll feel really bad about it, OK?"

 

"I don't want to sound like a textbook abuser, but stop me before I hurt you ... "

 

No, honey.  Not OK. 

 

*hits him with the Tranquil stick*

*repeatedly*

*sticks him in a Formari workshop where he can use his knowledge to make powerful, shiny things for me... *

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Cole believes in Solas. Cole believes Solas is redeemable. I trusted Cole's viewpoint on other companions, particular when it came to Blackthom Wallrainier and  Machiavellian Vivienne.

 

If a Spirit of Compassion says that Solas can be redeemed, I believe that he truly can be redeemed.

 

It will take a lot of work but it will be worth it. Plus I like his theme music too much to let him die now.

 

[TobiTobsen]

Sounds like the plot of a bad romance novel which are a dime a dozen in bookstores.

 

"Hey babe, gonna commit some genocide. Not really into it though, so stop me, maybe?"

 

[Dean_the_Young]

I don't think anyone's saying that. But the fact remains that, for most of my Inquisitors, Solas is a friend. They can't treat him like just another enemy. They'd never want him to succeed with his plans, but that doesn't mean they want to murder the guy either. Not unless it becomes absolutely necessary.

 

 

If they can't, they need to learn empathy for their enemies and how to resist bias with their friends. Because Solas is, and now we know always has been, the real enemy of Dragon Age Inquisition.

 

Remember ye long time ago at the start of Dragon Age Inquisition? The Breach and the whole demonic invasion? That wasn't Corypheus's plan going awry. That was Solas's plan going right. Solas wasn't tricked out of his orb, some victim of desperation and confusion: he knew what Corypheus was going to do, and why, led him to do it. The Inquistiion's mandate about finding who was behind the Breach? Corypheus might have been behind the Breach, but Solas was behind Corypheus- and not by accident.

 

I find Solas's ambitions about as sympathetic as Corypheus's- the fact that they both thought they were both dealing with displacement culture shock, believed they were doing something really good for the world, and took it upon themselves to play god to 'fix' things doesn't really change what they're responsible for. Solas expressing a bit more empathy doesn't change that he's a mass murderer, and aspires to even greater atrocities.

 

Solas isn't someone who screwed up in the distant past, but may commit a deliberate crime in the indefinite future if not stopped. Solas is someone who screwed up in the distant past, but deliberatly initiated the apocalypse a second time not three years ago, and having seen that has decided that third time's the charm, for reals this time.

 

 

 

 

 

And I think the Inquisitor, especially an Inquisitor who glimpsed the bad future on the mage path, is uniquely able to empathize with Solas's predicament. Who's to say they would handle being the cause of the end of their world any better?

 

 

Me, myself, and millions of other people who don't consider 'genocide' an appropriate solution to homesickness and guilt.

 

If you're driven by guilt, take it out on yourself- not on (even more) innocents.

 

You do not save the village by burning it to the ground. You do not recreate the past by destroying the present. And killing perfectly content people is not putting them out of their misery.

 

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Yeah, that was bad and he massively messed up there. But he didn't unleash Cory on purpose and didn't have any control over what Cory did afterwards. He's responsible for the deaths in the initial explosion, but I wouldn't blame him for the events of the game afterwards, which he did his best to fix.

 

It's a crime, but not a world-destroying one so far. I've got characters in Bioware games that have killed more people then that trying to do good. Solas hasn't actually achieved anything large scale yet.

 

I did specify world-destroying crime in my post, not just any crime!

 

Of course he did destroy the world once, but we only have his obviously biased view of how that was nessesary. So I can't really judge him either way for that until we have more information about what actually happened!

 

 

Solas achieved the Breach, and the Breach is a world-destroying crime. One whose aftermath (just the demons even) is felt for months or years afterwards.

 

That whole bad future of 'Hushed Whispers' in which demons overrun the land killing everyone? That wasn't Corypheus's villainous plan: that was Solas's intention.

 

Solas wanted to stop the Breach because he didn't get his orb and the anchor so it wouldn't work for him, not because the Breach was against his desires.

[Dean_the_Young]

Cole believes in Solas. Cole believes Solas is redeemable. I trusted Cole's viewpoint on other companions, particular when it came to Blackthom Wallrainier and  Machiavellian Vivienne.

 

If a Spirit of Compassion says that Solas can be redeemed, I believe that he truly can be redeemed.

 

I'm just going to point out that a spirit of Justice was responsible for mass murder in the pursuit of instigating mass murder, a spirit of Valor thought it'd be downright dandy to have a duel to the death with a novice mage in the middle of their Harrowing, and suggest you not put too much faith in spirits.

 

Especially those that 'help' people by killing them, or tampering with peoples minds and memories without consent.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I'm just going to point out that a spirit of Justice was responsible for mass murder in the pursuit of instigating mass murder, and suggest you not put too much faith in spirits.

 

Especially those that 'help' people by killing them, or tampering with peoples minds and memories without consent.

 

Inaccurate. Justice was not solely responsible for the events of Kirkwall. Justice has morphed into Vengeance when he voluntarily possessed Anders. Part of that morph is due to Anders allowing Justice to possess him and allowing his emotions to morph Justice. The original Justice in the DAO Awakening is no more. The blame is both Justice and Anders to bear, not Justice alone.

 

Cole kills people who hurt other people badly. He does not simply kill people. The mind tampering is an issue but other than that, I see no other problems with Cole. Even so, Cole merely makes people forget the hurt, he does not control minds. He does not feed on the memories like Nightmare. He is a Spirit of Compassion. He wants to help.

[Hellion Rex]

How does that judgement go...

Having done damage beyond all reckoning, a mage's crime, a mage's punishment...?

would it even work? I'd kill him just to be sure.

[Vit246]

i hope we can call time on all elves, wipe their pointy eared sense of superiority from the face of Thedas once and for all

 

 "Solas wants to commit genocide! So I'm gonna commit genocide on all elves!"

[Dean_the_Young]

Long story short, and sorry for the wall of explanatory text: what can a player and a character who are NOT inclined to think Solas is the bee's knees (be it because of "romance" or for other reasons) do to not hate him now?

 

Remember all the NPCs you've forgiven for less.

 

I mean, Corypheus only murdered the Conclave and recruited the mages, tricked the wardens, and enslaved the Templars in his effort to conquer Southern Thedas. That's relatively piecemield to the rampaging demons, which were an accident on his part but totally deliberate on Solas's, and there still would have been mundane survivors afterwards.

 

 

 

 

Oh, wait, you said 'not'.

[actionhero112]

 "Solas wants to commit genocide! So I'm gonna commit genocide on all elves!"

 

But think of all hats we could design now that we don't have to accommodate their silly pointy ears. At least consider genocide from a purely fashion angle. 

[psychocandy]

 "Solas wants to commit genocide! So I'm gonna commit genocide on all elves!"

the post was probably a bit flippant

 

but as i expanded i dislike the "elven trope" that is used in every fantasy film/rpg/book/comic/fanfic that they are the superior/artistic/nature loving perfection of the world that was ruined by the arrival of man,which this dlc actually shows they caused most of it themselves

[myahele]

Sometimes you need to break an egg

[Dean_the_Young]

Inaccurate. Justice was not solely responsible for the events of Kirkwall. Justice has morphed into Vengeance when he voluntarily possessed Anders. Part of that morph is due to Anders allowing Justice to possess him and allowing his emotions to morph Justice. The original Justice in the DAO Awakening is no more. The blame is both Justice and Anders to bear, not Justice alone.

 

 

Justice sharing responsibility does not detract Justice's responsibility.

 

The spirit did something that most objective people would recognize countered the premise. Spirits in the DA universe are aspirations, not authorities, on their emotional precepts. The view the world through biases as strong, if not stronger, than anyone else's.

 

 

Cole kills people who hurt other people badly. He does not simply kill people.

 

That is exactly what he did in White Spire.
 

 

The mind tampering is an issue but other than that, I see no other problems with Cole. Even so, Cole merely makes people forget the hurt, he does not control minds. He does not feed on the memories like Nightmare.

 

 

 

Try not to trip over that bar you set.
 

 

He is a Spirit of Compassion. He wants to help.

 

And he does so by pilfering people's private-most thoughts, violating their sense of self, and denying their personhood by messing with their minds to get his jollies. His desire to help is a fixation, not an excuse, for denying people the right to their own feelings, pasts, and decisions.

 

You can call him a Spirit of Compassion. You can also call him a mind-rapist. Considering how often he asks for consent, you'd have as easy a time with the later as the former.

[ComedicSociopathy]

I love Solas, but the guy needs to learn to let things go.

 

You failed, man. That whole Veil idea turned out to bite you in the ass and destroy almost everything you held dear. The empire and people you tried to protect and free are DEAD AND GONE. Period. It's over. The past is dust. Move on and work on making things better for the elves of today. I mean, that beautiful valley sanctuary could probably be used a permanent settlement for a lot of Dalish clans, city elves and Tevinter slaves. Just invest in that and leave this idiotic plan, which will surely result in the elven gods being free again, and work on building an actual future for your people that doesn't involve mass genocide. 

 

Oh, well. I like the poor guilt-ridden fool, but the fact of the matter is that regardless of his attempts to make the genocide of the world "comfortable" he is in fact a monster whose plans seem less focused on helping the elves and more to do with bringing back a world that he prefers over the current one. 

 

Just like Corypheus. Anyways, I hope we can convince him he's being selfish and stupid so that his wisdom and power can be used for something useful, but if not...

 

Murderknife.