33 réponses à ce sujet

[Bhryaen]

I'm a big hammer fan- i.e., fan of big hammers- ha- at least when it comes to 2-handed warrior combat. But I've noticed in DAI that hammers don't do AoE damage. Which means every big WHAM only hits one target, no? And greataxes (and greatswords too, I believe) state straight-out that they do AoE damage, hitting all kinds of enemies with each hit (if they're in melee range). So are mauls inevitably inferior to use as a weapon if you have access to greataxes/greatswords? Or is it just that you have to use each type in a different way? If it's a tradeoff of "extra damage but no AoE" for mauls, "less damage but AoE" for greatstuff, are they equivalent tradeoffs or is it what it seems to me- mauls just can't compare? Or do people tend to carry both, switching to maul when fighting a single enemy, greaties for groups?

 

I actually went pretty far with a 2H warrior in DAI early on, but ended up deleting the character later, and I never got a good sense of what the difference was regarding effectiveness of which weapon he equipped. Now that I'm on Nightmare I assume it's going to matter a lot more.

[Bigdawg13]

Reavers work great with mauls because dragon rage has its own animation.

[capn233]

It boils down to how important autoattacks are to your playstyle and build relative to abilities.  As above, on a Reaver, Dragon Rage becomes an autoattack substitute and mauls make a lot of sense.  Ability damage is based on the damage of the weapon currently equipped, so mauls have an advantage over the other 2H weapons there.  AOE abilities will still do AOE regardless.  So you aren't punished all that badly for taking a maul if you have AOE abilities like Mighty Blow.

 

It gets a bit less straightforward when you consider the differences in schematics, or masterworks on regular weapons.  It may be worth sacrificing base damage to get better material slots or masterwork effects.

[actionhero112]

Ability damage is based on the damage of the weapon currently equipped, so mauls have an advantage over the other 2H weapons there.  AOE abilities will still do AOE 

 

 

This is a common misconception. Damage of the weapon is determined by how many base metal slots are in the schematic, and aren't influenced by whether a weapon is a hammer or an axe. Mauls are no more powerful than Greataxes or Greatswords. A maul with 22 metal and a greatsword with 22 metal, given the same quality of metal, will give the same base damage. Easily testable. 

 

Honestly it doesn't matter. Equip what is the most powerful weapon available to you don't let whether the weapon has AoE or not influence your decision. 

[capn233]

This is a common misconception. Damage of the weapon is determined by how many base metal slots are in the schematic, and aren't influenced by whether a weapon is a hammer or an axe. Mauls are no more powerful than Greataxes or Greatswords. A maul with 22 metal and a greatsword with 22 metal, given the same quality of metal, will give the same base damage. Easily testable. 

 

It was an odd choice for base game schematics to have similar number of damage slots.  In any case, noncrafted mauls have higher base than swords and axes at the same level and rarity tier.

[Bigdawg13]

This is a common misconception. Damage of the weapon is determined by how many base metal slots are in the schematic, and aren't influenced by whether a weapon is a hammer or an axe. Mauls are no more powerful than Greataxes or Greatswords. A maul with 22 metal and a greatsword with 22 metal, given the same quality of metal, will give the same base damage. Easily testable. 

 

Honestly it doesn't matter. Equip what is the most powerful weapon available to you don't let whether the weapon has AoE or not influence your decision. 

 

I'm not sure if you are teasing or not.  It is based on weapon base damage.  Base damage of mauls is higher than axes or swords.  *shrug*  I suppose I'll have to go test this, but I was very certain that it is base weapon damage and not metal skill slots.  Otherwise how do you compare a drop item with a crafted item.  You have no idea what the metal slots where for a drop-only item (hence I still argue weapon base damage is the only reliable metric).

[actionhero112]

Which 2H schematic has the most metal slots?

 

Do non-crafted weapons have metal slots?

 

Do mauls have an innate damage bonus over greatswords and greataxes, as you suggest here? 

 

  Ability damage is based on the damage of the weapon currently equipped, so mauls have an advantage over the other 2H weapons there. 

 

Yes the highest main weapon slots belong to a maul schematic, however, it's also simply awful because it has no haft or pommel upgrade slots. Are you trying to recommend that schematic?

 

It's also not a trend that continues for mauls, (E.G. the Sata Kass Iss having less weapon damage slots than the Hossberg Twainer, even though are both are t3) 

 

Maul's clearly don't have any advantage in base damage metal. 

 

As for found weapons, you should do my general rule. Go with what gives you the most immediate damage. Though Generally people go Gift of the Mountain Father > Last Stand > Glittering Darmillion > Dragon Hunter > Sulevin in base game non crafting. 

But to say (as you did) that mauls have an innate damage bonus over greatswords and greataxes is wrong

[capn233]

Actually you misinterpreted my comment and then talked about a misconception.  I didn't need the clarification.  Maybe some do.  But I don't need words metaphorically put in my mouth.

 

For the limited number of schematics, the axes and swords have similar damage slots.  Maybe that is worth pointing out.  That doesn't mean anything except that they schematics weren't balanced, which isn't surprising since crafting is goofy in this game.  But the one with the highest base damage is a maul. *shrug*

 

I never said anything about "innate damage bonus."  Mauls have more damage at the same rarity and level tier as the aoe 2H.  Even a cursory examination of the list of weapons demonstrates that this is true, or a small stint in MP.  Hence it can't be a misconception.

 

Level 5 Rare

 

Maul of the Dragon: ~94

Greatsword of the Dragon: ~84

 

Level 13 Rare

 

The Whale (Maul): 155–163

Knight Enchanter Greatsword: 139–146

Arishok Battleaxe: 139-146

 

etc

 

Hmmm the maul has the highest base damage.

 

"Innate damage bonus" is your quote.  Recommending any particular schematic is again your baloney.  I stated it isn't as straightforward as pure base damage given masterworks, or the type of mat slots available.

 

edited

[actionhero112]

For the limited number of schematics, the axes and swords have similar damage slots.  Maybe that is worth pointing out.  That doesn't mean anything except that they schematics weren't balanced, which isn't surprising since crafting is goofy in this game.  But the one with the highest base damage is a maul. *shrug*

 

 

And functionally should not be used. Hilarious. 

 

If Mauls always have an advantage over Swords and Axes when it comes to base damage, as you say, then every maul schematic should have an base damage advantage over it's greataxe and greatsword fellows. I've already proven that they don't. 

 

This isn't because crafting is "goofy" it's because it follows a set system. Weapon damage is based on number of metal slots in the first slot. It doesn't matter if the 2h schematic is a maul or a greatsword it follows the metal system. Not whether it is a maul or not.

 

As for found weapons it doesn't matter, and honestly I care less about it than crafting. My point is not that mauls don't sometimes come with base damage higher than that greatswords or axes, but that they don't have this: 

 

Ability damage is based on the damage of the weapon currently equipped, so mauls have an advantage over the other 2H weapons there.  

 

innate advantage, as you so claim.  

 

And I've already proven this with the Sata Kass Iss and Hossenberg Twainer comparison. 

[CorniliuS]

For little more health and melee defense go with constitution, for little more damage – strength.

Depending of yours equipment and stats you will get something like ~45-70 crit chance and crit damage. For 2h it's very significant numbers.

[capn233]

As for found weapons it doesn't matter, and honestly I care less about it than crafting.

 

Alright, then in that case you should stop arguing about a perceived misconception.  For the standard loot, which comprises about three times as many weapons actually in the game, mauls always (not sometimes, always) have more base damage per level and rarity tier compared to the AOE weapons.

 

If you want to hang your hat on the schematics, feel free.  I mean besides the fact that the highest base damage 2H schematic is a maul.  I did not recommend highest base damage to the exclusion of anything else, and did not specifically recommend this schematic however.

[draken-heart]

This is a common misconception. Damage of the weapon is determined by how many base metal slots are in the schematic, and aren't influenced by whether a weapon is a hammer or an axe. Mauls are no more powerful than Greataxes or Greatswords. A maul with 22 metal and a greatsword with 22 metal, given the same quality of metal, will give the same base damage. Easily testable. 

 

Honestly it doesn't matter. Equip what is the most powerful weapon available to you don't let whether the weapon has AoE or not influence your decision. 

 

Except that this is only true for crafting. A two handed axe or sword found in the game, uncrafted, does more damage overall than a great axe or great sword found the same way.

[actionhero112]

Except that this is only true for crafting. A two handed axe or sword found in the game, uncrafted, does more damage overall than a great axe or great sword found the same way.

Never said that wouldn't be the case, only that weapon damage is determined by weapon damage metal slots (when applicable ofc). 

[draken-heart]

Never said that wouldn't be the case, only that weapon damage is determined by weapon damage metal slots (when applicable ofc). 

 

AGAIN! Only for Crafting. Outside of CRAFTING a weapon, the damage is in fact determined by what the weapon is.

[actionhero112]

AGAIN! Only for Crafting. Outside of CRAFTING a weapon, the damage is in fact determined by what the weapon is.

 

 (when applicable ofc). 

 

 (when applicable ofc). 

 

 (when applicable ofc). 

[draken-heart]

 

 

When applicable does not matter when you never mentioned it in the post I first quoted.

[actionhero112]

When applicable does not matter when you never mentioned it in the post I first quoted.

 

Sorry I thought it was a given when I was taking about putting metal in weapon schematics that I was talking about crafting. Not like you can do that to found weapons. 

 

Pretty obvious imo. 

[draken-heart]

Sorry I thought it was a given when I was taking about putting metal in weapon schematics that I was talking about crafting. Not like you can do that to found weapons. 

 

Pretty obvious imo. 

 

Which makes mauls generally better, because the found ones have better base damage. End of thread.

[actionhero112]

Which makes mauls generally better, because the found ones have better base damage. End of thread.

 

 

Except for crafted mauls, which don't always have better base damage. Which is the entire point of my comment. 

[draken-heart]

Except for crafted mauls, which don't have always better base damage. Which is the entire point of my comment. 

 

You again focus on the crafting. NOT ALL WEAPONS THAT ARE BEST USED ARE THE CRAFTED ONES! Out of all the weapons in the game (crafted and not crafted), Mauls beat Greatswords and Greataxes as more weapons found as mauls have better base damage. End of discussion.

[actionhero112]

You again focus on the crafting. NOT ALL WEAPONS THAT ARE BEST USED ARE THE CRAFTED ONES! Out of all the weapons in the game (crafted and not crafted), Mauls beat Greatswords and Greataxes as more weapons found as mauls have better base damage. End of discussion.

 

Not all weapons used are found ones.

There is a reason to focus on crafting, crafted beats found in all builds (with the exception of helms, even then it's somewhat arguable). So to specifically exclude crafted weapons just because it doesn't fit your argument, is at best, illogical. 

[draken-heart]

Not all weapons used are found ones.

There is a reason to focus on crafting, crafted beats found in all builds (with the exception of helms, even then it's somewhat arguable). So to specifically exclude crafted weapons just because it doesn't fit your argument, is at best, illogical. 

 

Maul in Caer Bronarch in Crestwood has built-in guard-on-hit, where as a crafted anything needs Guard on hit masterwork materials to be found in order to have it. Sometimes the found stuff is much better than their crafted versions.

[actionhero112]

Maul in Caer Bronarch in Crestwood has built-in guard-on-hit, where as a crafted anything needs Guard on hit masterwork materials to be found in order to have it. Sometimes the found stuff is much better than their crafted versions.

 

And yet you have access to better guard on hit as soon as you get access to obsidian. EDIT: Actually I should be clear here. As soon as you can put that fade touched obsidian in a weapon, you get better guard on hit. Which is before the last stand. (the maul you're talking about)

 

In fact as soon as you get access to skyhold, you get access to dawnstone and stormheart, which outpaces all weapons up to that point. 

[Bhryaen]

Granted that found weapons may very well exceed the power of one's crafted ones given available schematics and mats, I usually try to craft since that tends to be the way to better weapons- and better control over the benefits. Not sure what the best possible weapons in the game are though- still haven't finished. (DAI is verrrrry lonngggg...) But if it's a toss-up between mauls and greataxe/sword on base damage, that does seem to mean mauls end up the inferior weapon- at least for crafting.

 

But I went to craft a couple T3 weapons- "Ornate Battleaxe" and "Sata Kass-Iss"- with identical T3 metal just to test. Oddly enough, though they did have the same base metal slots (both 20) and same base damage (220), when I crafted them they ended up with different DPS... and the bloody maul came in second! "OB" has 249DPS while "SKI" has 222DPS. So now (crafted) mauls are apparently twice inferior to (crafted) great-weapons: 1. no AoE type of damage, and, 2. noticeably lower DPS!

 

Or maybe somehow, despite having the same quantity of mat slots, there's some other difference built into each schematic that makes expected crafted qualities arbitrary. After all there's another T3 Greataxe schematic I have (Hossberg Twainer) that has 22 base metal slots- so same Tier, better slots. To test a more equivalent pair I then created the T2 "Maul of the Dragon" and "Greatsword of the Dragon-" both 14 base metal- so otherwise no condition for discrepancy. Again, both had the same base damage (154), but "MotD" had 156DPS while "GotD" had 174DPS. So clearly the better crafted weapon favors the non-maul for some reason..

 

Not good news for my planned crafted maul use... *grumble* Crafting a maul is like intentionally fighting with a more or less minor handicap in your main weapon.

 

So I suppose I have my answer... Thanks for the input though!

[capn233]

The rated DPS is lower at the same base damage due to the slower swing speed.  If you animation cancel the auto attacks, the DPS is identical.  DPS numbers aren't really used for anything.  Pick the schematic that has the better ancillary slots when the damage slot is identical.