167 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

Yeah, but even if you went pro-Templar in the base game, that doesn't mean that the mage situation didn't need to be addressed at some point? The surviving Templars apparently still exist in some capacity in the pro-Mage state to get absorbed into either the Inquisition or Seekers, so it makes sense that in the pro-Templar worldstate, the Circle and College might have come into existence under both Cass or Leliana as Divine.

 

Although if you went Templar and made Vivienne DIvine and we still get the College slide, I admit, that does seem like a bit of a cheat on Bioware's part, since Vivienne is the Divine least willing to compromise when it comes to giving mages any alternative to the Circle.

Considering I put Cass as divine who recreated the templar order, it makes sense she recreated a better circle. There was no need for this collage bogus if you helped the templars, instead of I don't know, bringing more details on how the new order is doing we get squat.

[Sifr]

Considering I put Cass as divine who recreated the templar order, it makes sense she recreated a better circle. There was no need for this collage bogus if you helped the templars, instead of I don't know, bringing more details on how the new order is doing we get squat.

 

But Cassandra did understand that the Circle needed reform and that the mages had many legitimate reasons to be angry, so perhaps her solution as Divine was to re-establish and rebrand the Circle as the College of Enchanters.

 

That could be why the College exists under her stewardship as Divine and why Vivienne decided to recreate the "real" Circle elsewhere?

[BansheeOwnage]

Not my epilogue. Still playing through the dlc trying to get all schematics available. In short, yes Cass stays on the Exalted Council if Leliana is Divine. Cass doesn't always agree with what Leliana does but they share a mutual respect for each other and work well together.

 

Also, it says that Leliana continued to make reforms allowing non-humans and males to become priests, and makes the Canticle of Shartan an official part of the Chant again. This resulted in a rebellion trying to overthrew her. She survived several assassination attempts and used them as proof that what she is doing is the Maker's work. If romanced, Leliana openly has a relationship with the HoF and makes a reform allowing priests to have relationships.

 

https://youtu.be/rnpMQoe_tyg?t=16m26s

Wait, wait wait wait. Does that mean the Hero of Ferelden is back? Did they cure the calling?

[Jaison1986]

But Cassandra did understand that the Circle needed reform and that the mages had many legitimate reasons to be angry, so perhaps her solution as Divine was to re-establish and rebrand the Circle as the College of Enchanters.

 

That could be why the College exists under her stewardship as Divine and why Vivienne decided to recreate the "real" Circle elsewhere?

 

They railroaded the situations. The thing is that the situation goes entirely different depending on choice. This is how it is:

 

Leliana and mages: Mages live on their own and the templars are no more

Leliana and templars: The templar order is permanently disbanded and we don't hear about the mages

 

Cassandra and conscript mages/templars: The circle goes back to the old system with mages being watched over by templars

Cassandra and mage recruits: Cassandra restores the circle and Fiona makes her college. There is an struggle for power

 

Divine Vivienne and templars: The circle system is restored to the exact same way it was before

Divine Vivienne and mages: Mages aways refuse to go back to the circle, and conflict with the chantry is renewed.

 

But now this DLC aways ends on the same path for some reason, with the college of enchanters and circle of magi coexisting and with the risk of yet another war. That was some seriously cheap write off.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Wait, wait wait wait. Does that mean the Hero of Ferelden is back? Did they cure the calling?

Yes, apparently the HoF is back. Currently unknown if they managed to find a cure. Also, Hawke is back in Kirkwall. Guess they didn't want to leave loose ends for the living protags.

[Reznore57]

The problem is people who got the Templar WHERE screwed over. In the base game, we got different slides for them, but now all of a sudden we not only not get them or any mention, we now always get this collage. It's bad enough Bioware tired to too hard to force Hushed Whispers down my throat in the base game, now my own path was ignored.

 

Oh I see.

And no explanation about the College of Enchanters , I assume?

Well erf...to be honest I was mostly boasting because everything was working out fine for me.

 

It's a bit strange they could have just said there were lingering tension in the Circles and leave it at that for now.

Not sure what they're going to do with templars , but I assume with you disbanding the Inquition or letting the Divine rule it , well it ends the same , templars are back in the Chantry.

[BansheeOwnage]

Yes, apparently the HoF is back. Currently unknown if they managed to find a cure. Also, Hawke is back in Kirkwall. Guess they didn't want to leave loose ends for the living protags.

I'm surprised. I was even (pleasantly) surprised they let Hawke go back to Kirkwall, but this? Well, the tone of the slides suggests they aren't in danger of dying soon; no "Leliana and the HoF tried to enjoy their time before it ran out" type of thing. So... that suggests curing the calling, but the implications of that are huge. And if they didn't, surely they at least discovered more about how the blight works. Either way, hopefully we learn more next game, especially if it tackles what happened to the Wardens at Weishaupt.

[Korva]

Yeah, but even if you went pro-Templar in the base game, that doesn't mean that the mage situation didn't need to be addressed at some point?

 

Sure, but so should the templars. I don't mind the College because the whole mage thing has never been a focus for me and because reforms are needed ... for both parties. The templars shouldn't just be swept under the rug. There is need for more than just some kind of sanatorium for the lyrium-addled, which also apparently happens only if Cullen stays off the stuff?

 

Between the pressure to disband because we're oh-so-corrupt, friends scattering again, all the prissy nobles hating us no matter how we acted and ruled, templars being swept under the rug ... I wonder where the "choose your legacy" is in this? Looks to me like there isn't one, nevermind a positive one. Mages get some much-needed improvements, infighting or no, but has nothing to do with us in the end either.

[Sifr]

Sure, but so should the templars. I don't mind the College because the whole mage thing has never been a focus for me and because reforms are needed ... for both parties. The templars shouldn't just be swept under the rug. There is need for more than just some kind of sanatorium for the lyrium-addled, which also apparently happens only if Cullen stays off the stuff?

 

Between the pressure to disband because we're oh-so-corrupt, friends scattering again, all the prissy nobles hating us no matter how we acted and ruled, templars being swept under the rug ... I wonder where the "choose your legacy" is in this? Looks to me like there isn't one, nevermind a positive one. Mages get some much-needed improvements, infighting or no, but has nothing to do with us in the end either.

 

I agree that they should have been represented in the pro-Mage path for the game, since we don't get much idea how the Templars are working to recover from both their loses during the war and from the Red Templar incursions in their ranks.

 

Still, the pro-Templar ending for the main game gave a lot of information about how the Templars came away from the Mage-Templar conflict, so any more in Trespasser's epilogue would have been largely redundant or repeating much of the same we already knew.

 

To be honest, I think Bioware needs to go back to how Origins handled the epilogues and give us a lot of slides about how our actions affected things and what happened afterwards, so we are able to get far more of a complete picture. Plus it'd save on the voice acting budget, because did anyone really mind that Trespasser had unspoken slides

[zeypher]

So what happens o bright hand if leliana is the divine?

[Ynqve]

So what happens o bright hand if leliana is the divine?

 

The Bright Hand doesn't exist if Leliana is elected Divine. 

[zeypher]

Yes it does, if you conscript the mages and get leliana divine, you get bright hand.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Yes it does, if you conscript the mages and get leliana divine, you get bright hand.

The game still acts as though the College exists. So much for choice mattering.

[Ynqve]

Yes it does, if you conscript the mages and get leliana divine, you get bright hand.

 

My bad. But as thesuperdarkone2 said, it doesn't seem to matter anyway. 

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

I agree that they should have been represented in the pro-Mage path for the game, since we don't get much idea how the Templars are working to recover from both their loses during the war and from the Red Templar incursions in their ranks.

 

Still, the pro-Templar ending for the main game gave a lot of information about how the Templars came away from the Mage-Templar conflict, so any more in Trespasser's epilogue would have been largely redundant or repeating much of the same we already knew.

 

 

That's a bad excuse for ignoring the templar's situation. We hear just as much of the mages in the vanilla ending slides as we did of the templars. Yet Trespasser continues to tell alot of the mages current situation while we don't get to hear squat about the templars. On the top of my head I had plenty of questions such as what happened to Barris? Who became the new knight-vigilant? How did the templars respond to the rival college opening up (had Cassandra as divine)? 

[Bleachrude]

Personally, I'm more interested in the Templar TRAINING.

 

If say Leliana disbands the templars as an organization, why would Ferelden, Orlais et al NOT recruit and try to create their own templars or at the least have some troops with templar training....

 

The reasoning why this never happened was because templars and their training were considered under the purview of the Chantry but if there is no more Templar organization, why would Neverra NOT try to have its own set of soldiers that can defend against magic?

 

If there was an incident involving a criminal mage or an invasion from Tevinter, Neverra could turn to the local chantry and use their templars but in the endings where there is no more templars as an organization?

[ArianaGBSA]

...because they all literally end exactly the same way.

 

Divine Leliana has Vivienne literally remake the Circle to take advantage of the Inquisition's removal in order to start a mage civil war to destroy the College

 

Divine Cass has the mage civil war which her ending kind of implied

 

Divine Vivienne straight up allows the College to form anyway as thanks for helping the Inquisition. Retcons ahoy!

 

 

Guess we shouldn't be surprised that that situation is exactly the same. Now the argument is basically who you think looks best in the outfit.

Interesting way of looking into things... for me the divines are completely different from each other. But yes, when you FOCUS on that matter perhaps there is not much difference. I have multiple playthoughs so I have them all as divines and both Leliana's paths. My favorite divine, for all the change she brings to the world of Thedas is peaceful Leliana.

[TeaLulu]

Wat? In my epilogue, Lelianna didn't do anything with Vivienne.

 

Vivienne reformed her own group of idiots but it was in DIRECT competition with the college of enchanters that Fiona made. Lelianna had nothing to do with that, Vivienne just did it cause she's a B.

[Knight of Dane]

What happens if Vivienne wasn't a part of the Inquisition?

[zeypher]

What happens if Vivienne wasn't a part of the Inquisition?

Would like to know this as well

[Boost32]

What happens if Vivienne wasn't a part of the Inquisition?

She will make the Circles anyway, BioWare want to make both the Circle and the College canon.

Edit - I posted it on the third page but since people still asking it:

I didn't have Vivienne in my game at all, but there's a slide with a Vivienne-like figure that says that a Circle of Magi arose (on itself, I presume, it wasn't said that Divine Victoria aided them in any way) and began rivaling the College. They're in uneasy coexistence or something like that.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Yes it does, if you conscript the mages and get leliana divine, you get bright hand.

 

And the Bright Hand eventually coverts in to the College of Enchanters regardless of whether you conscript them or not. 

[SgtSteel91]

**** it, we're going to Tevinter anyway.

[BansheeOwnage]

 

To be honest, I think Bioware needs to go back to how Origins handled the epilogues and give us a lot of slides about how our actions affected things and what happened afterwards, so we are able to get far more of a complete picture. Plus it'd save on the voice acting budget, because did anyone really mind that Trespasser had unspoken slides

I don't mind them being unspoken, but I'd have preferred Varric to narrate them. And they go by too fast to both read and appreciate the artwork. I think they're aware of that now, though.

[BloodKaiden]

**** it, we're going to Tevinter anyway.

That's the way I'm seeing it. We can put this southern crap to rest once and for all and showcase unique Tevinter's culture and history letting us see how the other side lives. I for one am done with the Mage vs Templars dilemma. It's the same situation with the Blight, we've had it, seen it, time to move on to other things. Vints vs Qunari conflict would be something fresh and new for the franchise to focus on.