My one wish came true.
I was afraid they wouldn't do this because the anger they would get from Qun supporters. But it just makes sense for Qun Bull to betray The Inquisition. Even ignoring the dead Chargers. The Qun will always be first to him if he remains dedicated to the Qun.
I made the alliance and I support this even if it hurts.
I'm kind of questioning why it took him that long to actually turn on the quizzy. Honestly, I would have thought it would have happened at least midway through when you started to realize what was going on. Also I'm almost thrilled about this because I have a quizzy that can do nothing right (literally she fucks up everything she touches) and now I'm definitely going to have her romance Bull. That way he can turn on her so not only will her lover die, she will have to be the one to do it, AND she loses her hand. Damn poor quizzy.
He wasn't ordered to before. He was merely sent to the Inquisition to investigate what was happening with the Breach. As he said, it was nothing personal. Just him adhering to his duty as a Ben-Hassrath. Damn drone. But yeah, the same guy who knew who Leliana was before he even joined somehow miraculously was not informed when his own branch of the Qun was attempting an assassination at the Exalted Council? I am skeptical of that.
In my "honest" playthrough I did not recruit 'Bull at all, actually. I did not like the idea of having a guy in my Inquisition leaking information even if I knew about it; I prefer to play things very close to the chest, and can quite easily pass up on a potential companion solely to promote the culture I want. I think this DLC aptly showed why that is important. Even recruiting him with the "Don't make me regret it" dialogue option does not work for me because spies have all sorts of codes that are not easily detectable and can pass security-checks.
When I do recruit him, though, I typically go for the alliance for a host of reasons. One of those reasons being: if I do not trust allying with those Qunari, then I really should not have recruited this one, either.
I like Bull well enough. He is far from any favorite of mine, but I got along with him fine and did not have any issue with him. When it comes down to it, though, I find myself preferring his betrayal to the alternative because... his character is not very memorable at all, otherwise.
I'm more confused as to the whole thing going on.
Either the qunari lied and were declaring war or they weren't lying and this was a rogue sect.
If they weren't lying why did bull join?
One thing I know now is that I'll never listen or trust a Qunari again.
And they can forget about that alliance in future games.
Maybe you can bribe the new Arishok with some cookies? It'll keep him away for a few more years probably.
They were lying, they just dont want a Exalted March until they conquered Tevinter.I'm more confused as to the whole thing going on.
Either the qunari lied and were declaring war or they weren't lying and this was a rogue sect.
If they weren't lying why did bull join?
Well my justification of the Bull vs the Qunari is A. Bull's not very Qunarish and B. With bull there's actually give and take. Bull gives you reports right off the bat. Bull is open about what he expects and wants from you. He doesn't say let me stick around and I'll eventually give you reports. Where's the qunari don't even tell you the plan til you can't even cover up for their stupidity. (Like really? Why would they attack by boat KNOWING the Magisters are clearly capable of sinking the crap and not tell the Inquisitor the entire plan for backup? WTF is quizzy going to do? Betray them to ****** corypheus?!? that stupid hurr durr you can't bring in your army argument made me want to slap someone. No freaking ****. That's why we have a goddamn spymaster and scouts. So now you want me to waste resources on something that shouldn't have been an issue in the first place. The Inquisition scouts could've dealt with the lyrium but ooh no the Qunari know best. Those silly bas are too stupid to do something so simple. Well screw them too.
"The truth is, Iron Bull, you are Qunari. I cannot be disappointed in your decisions. As a mindless, soulless drone, you could never make any." (Solas in banter)
I queued up a bunch of old saves in order to get the races/world states I wanted to try out. The first one I do is one where he betrays me and my jaw dropped. Patrick Weekes points out that if you romance Qun Iron Bull it's implied that it's all just a job for him, which I counted as a Major Red Flag and always saved the chargers after.
During the quest when you say you don't trust the Qunari alliance offer he agrees that's usually the right reaction. You even get approval points for being wary of them.
I remember a codex somewhere (might be DA2) where it's said that the treaties are meaningless to the Qunari. They signed them because it satisfied the Andrastians not because they believed in honoring their word.
I'm seeing a lot of holier-than-thou passive aggressiveness from the people who saved the chargers in this thread 
My canon quizzy is a femqunari who I headcanon as being tal-vashorth, who's only disappointment with the Qun really was the gender restrictions for soldiers, hence her leaving - so allying with the Qun made a lot of sense to her.
Thing is, doesn't Bull still betray you if you don't complete his personal quest? Meaning that despite the chargers being alive - his extended family as some here call them - he'll still stab the inquisition in the back, and by proxy his chargers.
Takes some of the shine off of saving the chargers so bull can survive Trespasser. If they're alive and he still drops everyone like a sack of wet mice, maybe he wasn't really worth saving.
"The truth is, Iron Bull, you are Qunari. I cannot be disappointed in your decisions. As a mindless, soulless drone, you could never make any." (Solas in banter)
I queued up a bunch of old saves in order to get the races/world states I wanted to try out. The first one I do is one where he betrays me and my jaw dropped. Patrick Weekes points out that if you romance Qun Iron Bull it's implied that it's all just a job for him, which I counted as a Major Red Flag and always saved the chargers after.
During the quest when you say you don't trust the Qunari alliance offer he agrees that's usually the right reaction. You even get approval points for being wary of them.
I remember a codex somewhere (might be DA2) where it's said that the treaties are meaningless to the Qunari. They signed them because it satisfied the Andrastians not because they believed in honoring their word.
But, but "It wasn't just a job," Bull says! Oh damn that Hissrad!
I'm seeing a lot of holier-than-thou passive aggressiveness from the people who saved the chargers in this thread
My canon quizzy is a femqunari who I headcanon as being tal-vashorth, who's only disappointment with the Qun really was the gender restrictions for soldiers, hence her leaving - so allying with the Qun made a lot of sense to her.
Thing is, doesn't Bull still betray you if you don't complete his personal quest? Meaning that despite the chargers being alive - his extended family as some here call them - he'll still stab the inquisition in the back, and by proxy his chargers.
Takes some of the shine off of saving the chargers so bull can survive Trespasser. If they're alive and he still drops everyone like a sack of wet mice, maybe he wasn't really worth saving.
I've always saved the Chargers- now I may have to play through again and let them die so I can kill Iron Bull when he turns on me.
I've always saved the Chargers- now I may have to play through again and let them die so I can kill Iron Bull when he turns on me.
You can just ignore the quest, the Chargers will live and you'll still get to kill him.
Nothing personal, Kadan.
Nothing personal, Kadan.
Spoiler
He called you kadan? How did you get that? In the others, he calls you bas, even if you're his companion and did his quest.
He called you kadan? How did you get that? In the others, he calls you bas, even if you're his companion and did his quest.
No. That would be my character calling him that, sarcastically. Since she romanced him and he betrayed her, she killed him herself.
And utter those words over his body, my character's head canon.
I never really liked Iron Bull and despite that I was quite shocked when I found out that he betrayed me...
I think it must have been harder for the people who actually like him.
What happens if he wasn't in your party at that time? Does he show up outta no where?
Yes, that is exactly what happens.
I was a little surprised when he turned on me. I expected to be able to convince him to back down because the Viddasala was clearly crazy and the Triumvirate still valued the alliance. She wasn't even his direct superior, they're in different branches of the Ben-Hassrath. But no, he just goes with it. Shame he didn't have some kind of death cutscene, like Arl Howe in DA:O.
Yes, that is exactly what happens.
I was a little surprised when he turned on me. I expected to be able to convince him to back down because the Viddasala was clearly crazy and the Triumvirate still valued the alliance. She wasn't even his direct superior, they're in different branches of the Ben-Hassrath. But no, he just goes with it. Shame he didn't have some kind of death cutscene, like Arl Howe in DA:O.
He appears when the Viddasala calls for Hissrath (Bull's qun name). He enters and then you kill him.
I agree, it was a shame there wasn't a scene where you can give the final hit and say something epic or just "die, you bastard". Sera fills in the blanks anyway!
You are a very innocent person.Yes, that is exactly what happens.
I was a little surprised when he turned on me. I expected to be able to convince him to back down because the Viddasala was clearly crazy and the Triumvirate still valued the alliance. She wasn't even his direct superior, they're in different branches of the Ben-Hassrath. But no, he just goes with it. Shame he didn't have some kind of death cutscene, like Arl Howe in DA:O.
You are a very innocent person.The Triumvirate and Hissrad were lying to you.
Perhaps they were, but you gotta wonder then if that's the case then why did they seek to renew their alliance with the Inquisition after it foiled their plans. Why is it that everyone surprised by this group's action.
I wouldn't be surprising if the Triumvirate had given the order, but Bull as he betrays you says that the Viddasala had asked him for help, not someone else. It's not so far fetched that she was doing this on her own to create a war between the Qun and the South while making the south ripe for conquest.
Deniability.Perhaps they were, but you gotta wonder then if that's the case then why did they seek to renew their alliance with the Inquisition after it foiled their plans. Why is it that everyone surprised by this group's action.
I wouldn't be surprising if the Triumvirate had given the order, but Bull as he betrays you says that the Viddasala had asked him for help, not someone else. It's not so far fetched that she was doing this on her own to create a war between the Qun and the South while making the south ripe for conquest.
Retour en haut
