588 réponses à ce sujet

[GalacticWolf5]

The Leviathans we encounter are actually the progeny of the Leviathans that survived 1 billion years ago.

[GalacticWolf5]

That concept doesn't even make any sense. We see people, alive and well, being turned into goo and sucked into a Reaper baby. There's no preserving of the mind and there's no indication that these consciousnesses are actually present in any of the Reapers. Sovereign, Harbinger and that Destroyer on Rannoch certainly don't have millions of perspectives and thought processes. They're just hype men with the intelligence level of a moody teenager.

 

Im just saying what we know from the game. We don't fully know how the harvesting process works, so I can't tell you how the minds are uploaded.

[Killroy]

The Leviathans we encounter are actually the progeny of the Leviathans that survived 1 billion years ago.

They're many generations removed from the creation of the Catalyst and it's subsequent stupidity. Even if Leviathans live 1,000,000 years they would still be on the ass-end of a 1,000 person game of telephone.

[Drone223]

Shepard's mission in ME2 drew on resources from throughout explored space and required staggering amounts of money. Your argument is invalid.
 

Not really, Shepard's mission in ME was only funded Cerberus, the war drew resources from multiple governments and organizations not just a single party.

 

 

Besides, the point of the war is to save us from the Reapers. Any contingency plan to avoid extinction(such as an Ark) is the most logical choice when faced with seemingly insurmountable odds. From a logical standpoint the Crucible would be the secondary priority since it's completely unreliable(we don't even know what it is until the last 5 minutes of the game).

 

The risks involved with an ark ship are no better than the crucible as a lot of things can go wrong in a journey that last several centuries in constant FTL and can just as easily go belly up.

 

"Large" means what, exactly? 1% of the Crucible's costs? 5%?

Given what the ark project has to achieve its hard to see it as something that can be done of a small scale, it wouldn't be far fetched for it to be on a similar scale to the crucible.

[AlanC9]

I thought the hallucination was the Catalyst apparition, trying to convince you not to Destroy .  And it makes sense that the other options only become available with higher War Assets because that means you've spent more time being exposed to the Reapers.

I don't check you on that last. I can plot routes through the EMS space where Shepards get different ending options with the same amount of Reaper contact. Plus, as noted sbove, the low-EMS Control case.

[AlanC9]

Given what the ark project has to achieve its hard to see it as something that can be done of a small scale, it wouldn't be far fetched for it to be on a similar scale to the crucible.

That isn't even an attempt answer my question. Stop ducking.

[Former_Fiend]

 

They created the catalyst and they gave it no limitations, if it did have limitations then it might have turned on it creators.

 

I assume you meant to put a "not" between "might" and "have".

 

But you missed my point; leviathans created the catalyst, but not the leviathans we met. The leviathans that created the catalyst died over a billion years before the start of the series. The ones we meet are not even survivors of the Reaper's first Harvest, they're the descendants of leviathans that survived.

 

Their rundown of the catalyst and it's flaws and programmings is something that's been passed down for a billion years, and is rather vague in it's description. If Bioware wanted to loosely contradict it, they could simply point that fact out and say that a full, in depth explanation of the issues and parameters involved in the catalyst would take several hours. 

[Killroy]

Not really, Shepard's mission in ME was only funded Cerberus, the war drew resources from multiple governments and organizations not just a single party.

You are demonstrably wrong. We have to obtain resources from all over explored space to succeed in the mission. That's right in the game.
 

The risks involved with an ark ship are no better than the crucible as a lot of things can go wrong in a journey that last several centuries in constant FTL and can just as easily go belly up.

You always make these baseless assumptions and expect everyone else to just accept them as fact. An Ark doesn't have to travel the void of space. And how are the risks of an Ark comparable to the Crucible? No one even knew what the Crucible would do. An Ark is inherently less risky than that.
 

Given what the ark project has to achieve its hard to see it as something that can be done of a small scale, it wouldn't be far fetched for it to be on a similar scale to the crucible.

If the Crucible is possible in 6 months why couldn't an Ark be constructed in a similar timeframe? Why would an Ark even have to be restricted to that timeframe? Just because the Council seemingly went full '****** over the Reapers doesn't mean everyone did. Hell, we know for a fact that some people recognized the threat they posed. Why couldn't someone as well funded as TIM have started the Ark project after Sovereign's attack?

[Former_Fiend]

You are demonstrably wrong. We have to obtain resources from all over explored space to succeed in the mission. That's right in the game.
 

You always make these baseless assumptions and expect everyone else to just accept them as fact. An Ark doesn't have to travel the void of space. And how are the risks of an Ark comparable to the Crucible? No one even knew what the Crucible would do. An Ark is inherently less risky than that.
 

If the Crucible is possible in 6 months why couldn't an Ark be constructed in a similar timeframe? Why would an Ark even have to be restricted to that timeframe? Just because the Council seemingly went full '****** over the Reapers doesn't mean everyone did. Hell, we know for a fact that some people recognized the threat they posed. Why couldn't someone as well funded as TIM have started the Ark project after Sovereign's attack?

 

Spitballing here, but the ARK could also be based on a preexisting plan completely unrelated to the reapers that gets dusted off for the war because someone important knows about it.

 

It's a big galaxy. Lots of people with a lot of crazy ideas being put into motion for science. Might be someone out there who figured out the key to intergalactic travel but couldn't previously get the funding for it due to the impracticality of it and the lack of a need, what with most of the galaxy being unexplored, anyway. 

 

Then the Reapers showed up, someone remembers the quack who kept trying to hit them up for money to go to Andromeda, and bam, ARK project.

[Han Shot First]

Spitballing here, but the ARK could also be based on a preexisting plan completely unrelated to the reapers that gets dusted off for the war because someone important knows about it.

 

 

In one of the older threads on this topic someone suggested that it could be an old Rachni War project that was mothballed. I thought it was an interesting suggestion, since the Reaper War isn't the first time the Council species were engaged in a war that could result in mass extinctions.

[Mcfly616]

The problem is, how and when did they discover how to wormhole themselves to Andromeda in the midst of a Reaper invasion? Our current cycles species have never duplicated a mass relay, yet at some point they discover a way to traverse/circumvent the vastness between galaxies....It's a leap.

 

 

 

Did some lone scientist have an epiphany or are they just going to have us stumble upon some long lost plans at the perfect time like we did with the Crucible?

[AlanC9]

It's not like wormholing yourself to Andromeda was useful before the Reapers showed up.

[Killroy]

The problem is, how and when did they discover how to wormhole themselves to Andromeda in the midst of a Reaper invasion? Our current cycles species have never duplicated a mass relay, yet at some point they discover a way to traverse/circumvent the vastness between galaxies....It's a leap.

 

 

 

Did some lone scientist have an epiphany or are they just going to have us stumble upon some long lost plans at the perfect time like we did with the Crucible?

 

Why couldn't someone have come up with a way to open a wormhole before the Reaper invasion but lacked the resources and support to make it happen?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Drone, look, the reapers traveled 150,000 LY from dark space to the Alpha Relay without discharging. And they did it in less than 3 years. Get over it. The lore in the codex pertaining to reaper FTL travel is wrong. It is gathered from human and alien intelligence, not actual fact. Because we know that lore in the Mass Effect Universe is some kind of zany free-for-all, right Kaiser?

 

Now I've given us reaper FTL drives. I've given us reaper Eezo cores. I've given us reaper drive cores. If I can think of  this, the writers have thought of this.

 

And the sooner everyone accepts that the endings of  ME3 will be ignored, the happier they will be.

[Mcfly616]

It's not like wormholing yourself to Andromeda was useful before the Reapers showed up.

 Maybe not. But the question remains. Did they just figure it out in a matter of mere months because the Reapers came along to give them the proper motivation or were the plans there all along just waiting to be put in motion?

 

We're going to technologically leap the Protheans by going intergalactic without duplicating -and maybe not even fully understanding- their own technological achievements. 

[Gothfather]

There is no acceptable way that the start of ME:A happening before the ending of ME3. The rectonning would be beyond preposterous since jumping galaxy to galaxy is something so far out of the reach of the Citadel & Council races grasp it's laughable to think it. Here is how ME3 endings cannot coexist with MEA, Synthesis would create a universe where there's no need for anything since everyone's a perfect bio-organic robot, Refusal is a cop out ending in which all sentient life gets exterminated without exception, Control leaves doubt about the reaper's new intentions but it's unlikely that they would allow expansion or departure from the milky way. Basically any ending with the Reapers still running around in any capacity undermines the entire possibility of ME:A.

 

Really? The crucible project was a vast project but also a secret one so not everyone knew about it. Are you SERIOUSLY going to sit there and say that Commander Shepard was told about EVERY secret project by every single government during ME3?  Cuz i don't recall those conversations. We as Shepard never had a complete picture of all activities of the War. There is no major reconning needed to say there was another secret project initiated as a "fail safe" in case the crucible failed and that Shepard didn't know about it. Shepard would have no "need to know" about such a project because it doesn't impact Shepard's mission at ALL. You know the crucible that they kept saying was a "hail Mary," a long shot? It makes perfect sense for alternative plans to be in the works and it makes perfect sense to have them LEAVE before the end of ME3 so that they DON'T have to nullify and cannonize any ending.

[Gothfather]

/snip

 

The risks involved with an ark ship are no better than the crucible as a lot of things can go wrong in a journey that last several centuries in constant FTL and can just as easily go belly up.

 

/snip

 

So you have two ideas that are "long shots" that seems like are more LIKELY reason to have a second project like the ark then a reason not to have it. If you know the crucible is unlikely to succeed I mean that was the constant narrative of the project. Then why the hell would you put all your eggs in one basket if you think the basket will break? You wouldn't you'd do other projects that may have as high a likelihood of failure but two projects with high failure rates still means you have a HIGHER chance of success than with just one project.

 

There is nothing in the game that states that the project has to use "conventional" FTL systems. The whole point of the mass relays was to hinder divergent tech development as the first few cycles didn't have them and learned LEARNED to do this to control advances. So it is actually cannon that non mass effect technology is not only possible but viable in the ME universe. Which means it is perfectly reasonable to assume that someone developed a non mass effect system of FTL travel so all your assumptions crumble under foot and your whole argument fails with it.

 

This is yet another BS attempt by people to try and FORCE their preferred ending on the rest of us. I like the destroy ending just short of the high EMS score that triggers the breath scene myself it is my favourite but I have no desire to force all players into this ending. I am perfectly happy that some people thing the control ending is their favourite or that some people even prefer the synthesis ending which I HATE. But their liking it doesn't ruin my day and i have no desire to force them to scrap their preferred ending. 

[Drone223]

That isn't even an attempt answer my question. Stop ducking.

I'm not, its hard to image such a project that has a lot riding on it be anything but small scale.

 

You are demonstrably wrong. We have to obtain resources from all over explored space to succeed in the mission. That's right in the game.

TIM already provided the resources and most of the reosurces Shepard gathered are also optional.

 

You always make these baseless assumptions and expect everyone else to just accept them as fact. An Ark doesn't have to travel the void of space. And how are the risks of an Ark comparable to the Crucible? No one even knew what the Crucible would do. An Ark is inherently less risky than that.

 

It is just as a huge risk on the crtuicble beacuse their going to be on their own in another galaxy with no help no means of defending themselves, be in no position of forming alliances and to nfind apprioate worlds to susatin the various different species. Then theirs the journey itself they'll have to make it with the reosurces they a;ready have and their is really no room for error.

 

If the Crucible is possible in 6 months why couldn't an Ark be constructed in a similar timeframe? Why would an Ark even have to be restricted to that timeframe? Just because the Council seemingly went full '****** over the Reapers doesn't mean everyone did. Hell, we know for a fact that some people recognized the threat they posed. Why couldn't someone as well funded as TIM have started the Ark project after Sovereign's attack?

 

The cruible alone is enough to bunkrupt the galaxy and its already during a lot of resources from the galaxy and its stated that the galaxy is pooring all its resources into it. Given the scale of the project its going to be hard gathering the nessarcy resources in the first place without drawing some attention.

[Innocent Bystander]

This is technology that has been around for around 2000+ years not a few decades, 2000 years is more than enough time to create a more practical version.

You are completely missing the point. It doesn't matter how practical the actual technology is, EQUIPPING ships with it is impractical, because you'd still need Mass Relays (it's kinda faster that way, you know?) and when you travel by FTL, your destination is either a planet or space station, so discharge is not a problem. It's about as practical as condom dispensers in kindergarden. Or steering wheel on snowboard.

But it doesn't negate the possibility that such a technology is developed, scientists are strange creatures and tend to research useless crap just because they can.

Also arguments that something wasn't mentioned. I didn't register anyone mentioning ham&cheese sandwich, so it clearly doesn't exist in ME universe.

[AlanC9]

Maybe not. But the question remains. Did they just figure it out in a matter of mere months because the Reapers came along to give them the proper motivation or were the plans there all along just waiting to be put in motion?
 
We're going to technologically leap the Protheans by going intergalactic without duplicating -and maybe not even fully understanding- their own technological achievements.

And what if we are leaping the protheans? Just because they were better at a couple of techs doesn't mean that they were better at all techs. The evidence that they were super-advanced mostly relies on Reaper techs being wrongly thought to be of prothean origin.

I'd go with the wormhole tech having been a theoretical possibility for centuries, but being of no practical use until the Reaper invasion, when it was made into reality. Or possibly earlier, if we want to retcon the Council's stupidity and say that they threw massive resources into this after Sovereign showed up.

[AlanC9]

I'm not, its hard to image such a project that has a lot riding on it be anything but small scale.

So give a number, already. Stop waffling and say what percentage of the Crucible resources you think the ark project would have to take.

[PhroXenGold]

Really? The crucible project was a vast project but also a secret one so not everyone knew about it. Are you SERIOUSLY going to sit there and say that Commander Shepard was told about EVERY secret project by every single government during ME3?  Cuz i don't recall those conversations. We as Shepard never had a complete picture of all activities of the War. There is no major reconning needed to say there was another secret project initiated as a "fail safe" in case the crucible failed and that Shepard didn't know about it. Shepard would have no "need to know" about such a project because it doesn't impact Shepard's mission at ALL. You know the crucible that they kept saying was a "hail Mary," a long shot? It makes perfect sense for alternative plans to be in the works and it makes perfect sense to have them LEAVE before the end of ME3 so that they DON'T have to nullify and cannonize any ending.

 

To go further than this, it's not just that Shep doesn't need to know, it's that Shep cannot be allowed to know about the ARK. No-one likely to be involved in direct combat with the Reapers can know about it, because there is the risk that such people could be captured and indoctrinated. Once they are, the entire project fails, as the only way the ARK can work is if the Reapers don't know about it. Once they know about it, they use their full resources to chase it down (assuming a Reaper victory of course, which is what the project is designed for).

 

This has to be the blackest of black projects. Nothing about it can get out. Hell, I'd even expect secrecy to be taken as far as to have everyone who knows about the project but isn't on the ARK itself killed when it launches. If people are left behind with knowledge of the project, the Reapers could take that knowledge, and the ARK is a failure.

 

 

And regarding the risks, yes, they're massive. But they're tiny compared the risk involved with not sending the ARK: extinction.

[Puddi III]

>ME:A not out yet
>ME:A's plot will be ****

This is what closing off-topic leads to.

[Drone223]

So you have two ideas that are "long shots" that seems like are more LIKELY reason to have a second project like the ark then a reason not to have it. If you know the crucible is unlikely to succeed I mean that was the constant narrative of the project. Then why the hell would you put all your eggs in one basket if you think the basket will break? You wouldn't you'd do other projects that may have as high a likelihood of failure but two projects with high failure rates still means you have a HIGHER chance of success than with just one project.

 

There is nothing in the game that states that the project has to use "conventional" FTL systems. The whole point of the mass relays was to hinder divergent tech development as the first few cycles didn't have them and learned LEARNED to do this to control advances. So it is actually cannon that non mass effect technology is not only possible but viable in the ME universe. Which means it is perfectly reasonable to assume that someone developed a non mass effect system of FTL travel so all your assumptions crumble under foot and your whole argument fails with it.

 

This is yet another BS attempt by people to try and FORCE their preferred ending on the rest of us. I like the destroy ending just short of the high EMS score that triggers the breath scene myself it is my favourite but I have no desire to force all players into this ending. I am perfectly happy that some people thing the control ending is their favourite or that some people even prefer the synthesis ending which I HATE. But their liking it doesn't ruin my day and i have no desire to force them to scrap their preferred ending. 

It has nothing to do with preferred endings its to do with consistency and believability, there is no way that intergalactic travel can be developed within a few months without making it contrived or using (bad) retcons. If it took several decades to developed the technology then it wouldn't be far fetched.

 

You are completely missing the point. It doesn't matter how practical the actual technology is, EQUIPPING ships with it is impractical, because you'd still need Mass Relays (it's kinda faster that way, you know?) and when you travel by FTL, your destination is either a planet or space station, so discharge is not a problem. It's about as practical as condom dispensers in kindergarden. Or steering wheel on snowboard.

But it doesn't negate the possibility that such a technology is developed, scientists are strange creatures and tend to research useless crap just because they can.

Also arguments that something wasn't mentioned. I didn't register anyone mentioning ham&cheese sandwich, so it clearly doesn't exist in ME universe.

There are plenty of reasons to equip such technology first it allows to travel more distances without having to worry about building up discharge thus making exploration and searching for resources a lot easier and it circumnavigates the laws regarding activating in active relay's.

 

Drone, look, the reapers traveled 150,000 LY from dark space to the Alpha Relay without discharging. And they did it in less than 3 years. Get over it. The lore in the codex pertaining to reaper FTL travel is wrong. It is gathered from human and alien intelligence, not actual fact. Because we know that lore in the Mass Effect Universe is some kind of zany free-for-all, right Kaiser?

 

Now I've given us reaper FTL drives. I've given us reaper Eezo cores. I've given us reaper drive cores. If I can think of  this, the writers have thought of this.

 

And the sooner everyone accepts that the endings of  ME3 will be ignored, the happier they will be.

Its one thing to stay in constant FTL for 6 months is one thing but its something else entirely to do it for several centuries since there's the issue of wear and tear and not being able to undo irreversible damage if something were to malfunction.

[Killroy]

Think about this: discharging static from FTL is only talked for about 3 seconds in optional dialog in 1 game.
All of this circular discussion with an illogical person who will never change his mind over something that is not at all important to the games. The Normandy holding its static inside the ship gets about 27x more "screen time."